Fire Emblem 4 Echoes Ideas

[Tetragrammaton]

10 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

as i said in the last page

 

Then what is the point if you change the trading system?

Everyone can trade but you cannot trade every items?

Edited April 7, 2018 by hanhnn

[BBM]

the movable convoy trading removes the extra level of strategy that the pawn shop approach carries, while also not having the speed/efficiency of direct trading. it's the worst of both worlds lol.

skill/stat rings are the most important things you'd want to trade... almost all the weapons that get dropped suck. edit: event weapons I guess but the Hero Sword is the only weapon where you would want to trade it right away

what you see as tedious I see as an extra level of strategy. if you don't see it that way there's like a fundamental gap between us.

Edited April 7, 2018 by BBM

[Jave]

23 minutes ago, hanhnn said:

For this, I'm pretty sure they will fix it, and no one against this improvement.

Now think of it, if everyone can trade, 100* Light Sword, Elite Ring and Pursuit Ring would be free for everyone to use.

In fairness, I'm expecting Weapon kill count and Pursuit Ring to be nixed entirely in an FE4 remake.

FE5 had a Elite Sword that could be freely traded between units. It's not like it breaks the game or anything like that.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Jave

[Tetragrammaton]

2 minutes ago, Jave said:

In fairness, I'm expecting Weapon kill count and Pursuit Ring to be nixed entirely in an FE4 remake.

FE5 had a Elite Sword that could be freely traded between enemies. It's not like it breaks the game or anything like that.

The different is the Repair Shop and Hammerne Staff

Stat Rings, Skill Rings became one time use instead of equipment.

That's what you will get if you change the system

Edited April 7, 2018 by hanhnn

[Shrimpica]

8 minutes ago, hanhnn said:

Stat Rings, Skill Rings became one time use instead of equipment.

and i see nothing wrong with that. Or you can do it like RD with Skill Scrolls (with +Stat Rings acting as Skills) where you can (un-)equip them in Base. However make em cost money, and kids will inherit the Skills/stats the Parents had.

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Shrimperor

[Tetragrammaton]

1 minute ago, Shrimperor said:

and i see nothing wrong with that. Or you can do it like RD with Skill Scrolls (with +Stat Rings acting as Skills) where you can (un-)equip them in Base. However make em cost money, and kids will inherit the Skills/stats the Parents had.

 

Then again, it becomes a clone instead of being itself

[Jave]

7 minutes ago, hanhnn said:

The different is the Repair Shop and Hammerne Staff

Stat Rings, Skill Rings became one time use instead of equipment.

That's what you will get if you change the system

To be honest I don't mind changing the skill rings being single use. It's hardly a game changer anyway.

[BBM]

unequippable skill scrolls that cost money to trade in base is literally the exact same thing as the current system

[Shrimpica]

11 minutes ago, BBM said:

unequippable skill scrolls that cost money to trade in base is literally the exact same thing as the current system

No, it's not, because weapons and staves are a thing.

It makes 0 sense that allies can't share weapons they can not use, and top of that the system is tedious af and adds 0 strategy

Edited April 7, 2018 by Shrimperor

[BBM]

why do you want to trade weapons and staves so badly? the only staves that are important are Return, Warp, Rescue, and healing staves, and they all end up with people who can use them well. the only weapon that's good that you'd want to trade is the Hero Sword. is all you want to do trade the Hero Sword between like three different characters on PP so they can all use it to kill someone?

[Shrimpica]

11 minutes ago, BBM said:

why do you want to trade weapons and staves so badly? the only staves that are important are Return, Warp, Rescue, and healing staves, and they all end up with people who can use them well. the only weapon that's good that you'd want to trade is the Hero Sword. is all you want to do trade the Hero Sword between like three different characters on PP so they can all use it to kill someone?

Because sometimes you get weapons/staves from villages/Bosses the character themselves can not use. Going through a shop everytime to trade those is a pain in the ass. Not to to mention poor staffers whose only source of money until lvl 20 are Thiefs, which again is a backtrack and a pain on the ass in itself.

Honestly, i found the trading/Gold mechanic in FE4 so tedious, i almost dropped the game at chapter 9 because of it.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Shrimperor

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, hanhnn said:

Now think of it, if everyone can trade, 100* Light Sword, Elite Ring and Pursuit Ring would be free for everyone to use.

I mean, weapon kill count can always be tied to the character instead of the weapon. Problem solved. Pursuit in general needs to go though. It's beyond stupid that you need a Skill in order to double in this game. 

47 minutes ago, hanhnn said:

Then again, it becomes a clone instead of being itself

Having elements from other games in the series =/= being a clone. SoV took both classic and modern approaches and it still felt like it was it's own thing. Now, i hate the huge maps and i want them gone but if the FE4 remake can keep the big maps but make the overall gameplay actually good, then i'm all for it. Stuff like making the Rings a one-time use isn't going to take away from FE4's uniqueness if that's what you're concerned about.

[BBM]

but... aideen gets warp and rescue through events. the only staff you'd ever want to trade to her is physic I guess but it's not that important. lana gets all her staves from aideen. the other  staff users can fight. if they're running out of gold for repairing those staves, that's on you for overusing them. all the village/boss weapon drops in gen 1 suck except Silver Lance, Thunder Sword, and maybe Armorslayer. The two bosses are right on or beside castles. i can't remember where you get Armorslayer so that might be one case where you would want to do it. the gen 2 drops are all mostly only if you messed up with inheritance, except for hero axe.

it's just so confusing because I'm literally playing through FE4 right now and I haven't experienced a single situation (on Chapter 10 right now) where I have gotten a weapon from a village and been like "I want to trade this NOW. Literally, NOW. I cannot wait five more turns until I capture the next castle. I have to go back so I can do it RIGHT NOW".

there would be a strategy element to trading around weapons a bunch on PP to maximize usage every turn (particularly in a game like FE4 where enemies are clustered) but nothing you've said indicates that you would use it this way.

if you just really dislike the fact that lex!ulster needs to wait one castle to get a better sword, well, you can just allow lex to buy swords even if he can't pass them down.

if you just want to do it because that's how it is in every other game, sure I guess although I personally like it this way. but then it's very confusing why you'd be okay doing it for weapons/staves but not rings.

i'm also confused why anybody would want 1-time use statboosters/skills over ones that can be traded for a price. if you don't plan on trading them, just stick it to one person the whole time...?

[Tetragrammaton]

7 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I mean, weapon kill count can always be tied to the character instead of the weapon. Problem solved. Pursuit in general needs to go though. It's beyond stupid that you need a Skill in order to double in this game. 

Having elements from other games in the series =/= being a clone. SoV took both classic and modern approaches and it still felt like it was it's own thing. Now, i hate the huge maps and i want them gone but if the FE4 remake can keep the big maps but make the overall gameplay actually good, then i'm all for it. Stuff like making the Rings a one-time use isn't going to take away from FE4's uniqueness if that's what you're concerned about.

No, i'm more concern about 3 Major Odo sharing 1 Balmunk to gangbang a boss and then you have no repair shop to fix when it is broken.

[BBM]

If anything, less characters should have pursuit. if only infantry had pursuit, game would instantly be way more balanced. giving everyone pursuit makes the game less balanced because most of the infantry have it already. pursuit isn't why this game has balance issues.

Edited April 7, 2018 by BBM

[Jave]

27 minutes ago, hanhnn said:

No, i'm more concern about 3 Major Odo sharing 1 Balmunk to gangbang a boss and then you have no repair shop to fix when it is broken.

If that's your worry then just... don't do it?

[Tetragrammaton]

18 minutes ago, Jave said:

If that's your worry then just... don't do it?

How if they remove repair shop?

[Jave]

2 minutes ago, hanhnn said:

How if they remove repair shop?

I never said anything about removing Repair shop. If they keep weapon durability (which I honestly hope they nix for good in all future games), I imagine there will still be a way to repair weapons.

[BBM]

that would also be pretty hard to set up? you could only really do this against moving bosses, not gate bosses, since nobody who can use Balmung has a horse, and even then you'd need multiple other people to stand between the Balmung users to facilitate the trade. the only boss for whom you'd possibly want to do that is Ishtar, and honestly if you go to all that effort to pull this off, good on you.

it kinda just sucks with FE4 that it's a game where the devs clearly put a lot of thought into balancing the game in 50 different ways but made one or two glaring errors that made everything irrelevant. if you remove Sigurd, make Holsety less broken, and nerf magic swords, this game is nearly perfect (as long as you don't immediately blow a gasket due to not being able to trade).

[Tetragrammaton]

2 minutes ago, Jave said:

I never said anything about removing Repair shop. If they keep weapon durability (which I honestly hope they nix for good in all future games), I imagine there will still be a way to repair weapons.

Pawnshop + repair shop + individual gold + individual items are bundled as one unique system. You either have all of them or none of them.

FE5 has Hammerne Staff instead of Repair shop

4 minutes ago, BBM said:

that would also be pretty hard to set up? you could only really do this against moving bosses, not gate bosses, since nobody who can use Balmung has a horse, and even then you'd need multiple other people to stand between the Balmung users to facilitate the trade. the only boss for whom you'd possibly want to do that is Ishtar, and honestly if you go to all that effort to pull this off, good on you.

it kinda just sucks with FE4 that it's a game where the devs clearly put a lot of thought into balancing the game in 50 different ways but made one or two glaring errors that made everything irrelevant. if you remove Sigurd, make Holsety less broken, and nerf magic swords, this game is nearly perfect (as long as you don't immediately blow a gasket due to not being able to trade).

Either against 1 boss or 12 boss-like demon lords or many squadron units.

Or all of your staffers can spam Sleep/Silence Staff in 1 turn.

The point of the trading system is that you can trade 1 item and use as many times as possible until it breaks.

The pawnshop system restricts all that.

[eclipse]

What the hell is going on.

Gonna lock this for the time being, and read through everything.  I sense many warnings in the future.

EDIT: So it looks like I didn't lock it.  Oh, well.

Anyway, on the subject: Playing FE4 blind is Not Fun.  The sea of trees in Chapter 1 is irritating, and that's just the beginning.  If I have to rely on a guide to get me through, I'd rather play a different game.  I'll definitely look into a remake of FE4, as long as they find a way to balance Sigurd and his merry mounted men.

Edited April 7, 2018 by eclipse

[BBM]

tbf fe4 wasn't really meant to be played blind. iirc you got a guide with the game that would tell you about the need to pair people, as well as where the hidden events like Hero Axe, Pursuit Ring, etc. were. 

but to a certain extent fe4 and especially fe5 were both designed to be ragequit games

[Jotari]

I think if they kept the one item maximum and lack of axes in Gaiden, I'd say it's a definite given they're going to keep individual gold and item stocks  in a hypothetical Holy War remake (and I, for one, am in the camp I'd be disappointed otherwise). I just hope they fix the complete unbalance between Swords/Wind Magic and Axes/Fire Magic.

[Shrimpica]

7 hours ago, BBM said:

it kinda just sucks with FE4 that it's a game where the devs clearly put a lot of thought into balancing the game in 50 different ways but made one or two glaring errors that made everything irrelevant. 

FE4 does not have a single balanced thing. The devs didn't put any thoughts into balancing at all. It's the most imbalanced game in the series, and the easiest one i played. Forseti and Sigurd aren't the only broken things lel. It's easier to count what is not broken.

The only difficulty FE4 had were Holy Blood Bosses and the 3 moving Pegasus Bosses in the Finale. 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Shrimperor

[Etrurian emperor]

On 6-4-2018 at 4:33 AM, Acacia Sgt said:

As far as "faithful remake" goes, Echoes of Valentia should be more relevant on the route they may take, instead of looking at the much older DS remakes... and perhaps also in how it could be received.

If given the choice I'd definitely want them to take the Echoes route instead of a Shadow Dragon one even if it means that the genealogy remake retains a lot of its flaw. 

Because the remake would at least have its own identity. Echoes has very obvious flaws and strength due to how it goes out of its way to differentiate itself from more vanilla Fire emblem games like POR or FE7. It plays like no FE before it and as such I'm willing to accept flaws like the map design because it also gives us new mechanic for Mages, archers, promotion and other stuff. And of course Echoes expanded on the story and characters which was desperately needed and became very successful in that regard.  

Shadow Dragon took the opposite approach. It added some quality of life features, took out the most glaring of gameplay mistakes and reworked the classes and promotions to the more recognizable form. The lack of story, villains and personality of the cast were all left unaddressed. The end result is a game that's very functional and plays a lot like the ''vanilla'' Fire emblem games. If someone is sensitive to obvious flaws then its gameplay might easily beat out Echoes. On the other hand it also lacks an identity. Its not a one of a kind FE experience like Echoes or Genealogy. It plays like familiar Fire emblem games like Sacred Stones, path of Radiance and blazing sword......but unlike those games Shadow dragon fails to present anything interesting to go with that functional gameplay. So why play that game when you can also have the same gameplay experience from other games that do have a decent story, personality, charm and villains? With Echoes it simple, you won't get that gameplay and cast of characters anywhere else so you stomach the flaws to get to the good stuff. I'm very prepared to go do that for Genealogy as well if they expand on the story and characters. On the other hand I'd find it unacceptable if the game got streamlined but deprived of its unique features or of the expanding its cast and story so clearly need. 

Also on the subject of Horse emblem that came up a few times. Its definitely Horse emblem in gen 1 but doesn't gen 2 go and solve that problem by just not giving you a lot of ponies. The pony riders in gen 2 also seem noticeable weaker. The footies of Gen 2 include giants like Shanan and Sety while until Celice and Leif promite the only real killer cavalry you got is Ares. Oifey is okay but Delmud and Lester are definitely kinda sub par by comparison with their better peers. 

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Etrurian emperor