Fire Emblem 4 Echoes Ideas

[Lewyn]

About the maps if you put them all together they form the Judgral continent.  Also yeah retaining the large maps is a must, no point in remake without them.

Many of the most powerful units were not horses but foot soilders.   Everyone uses Ayra, Lewyn, Brigid, Jamke, Larcei, etc etc.  Not as many people use Alec or Noish.  Lex and Sigurd are used always cause they are great units in addition to being on a horse.  

Also no avatar, hate avatars.  Corrin completely ruined Fates.  They always encroach on the story, and have to be uber god tier since they represent the player supposedly, then they also have to be able to marry everyone cause we all want to be playboys.  They are often terribly written.  The game should be about the characters within that universe not an avatar for the player being forced into that universe.  

On 3/19/2018 at 6:37 AM, GoldPaladin said:

 

100% agree with all of this.

 

I would hate to see the maps broken up and made smaller. I understand and respect the criticisms towards Holy War's maps cause they're not for everybody, but it's one thing that makes the game so unique. This game made you feel like you had really explored an entire country in a single chapter. If Gaiden's maps weren't altered at all, hopefully Holy War's are kept the same. 

I don't have a problem with the horse mechanics in this game. This game did a good job trying to replicate medieval warfare. Cavalry was extremely important in medieval warfare, so I've never had a problem with the horse stuff. There's still some great units that don't get a horse that most of the critics of this game completely ignore - Ayra, Lewyn, Bridget, Larcei, Shannan, Ced and Faval all come to mind. People also forget that there are some mediocre and straight up forgettable units with horses like Noish, Alec, Midir and Beowolf.

 

Totally agree on no avatar. They not only hurt the story with the self-inserted Mary Sue, but they're also bad for gameplay purposes. Robin/Chrom and Corrin/Ryoma can pretty much solo most of their respective games. If anyone is soloing Holy War, it's going to be Sigurd for his half and Seliph for the other. 

 

As for postgame content, I'd like to see a DLC campaign for Agustria. The endgame talks about Ares going home to settle the civil war of his homeland. It would be interesting to play that out as a level with the black knight whom we all love. It could be like a redux of chapter 2 and 3, as well as adding in story material to explain house of Nordion and Agustria's politics.  

You summed it up very well.  I mean for people who don't like big maps, they can go play another game, and let us fans who actually enjoy FE4 have a remake that does it justice.  Cause there is a lot I don't like about Fates, I'm not going to tear everything down and be selfish.  The most  important thing is staying true to the original while improving the game perhaps expanding it.  Besides which there are an infinite amount of gameplay adjustments, such as where and when enemies attack, movement buffs/nerfs, and such that can be done to improve gameplay while keeping big maps intact.  

 

[Shadow Mir]

On 3/19/2018 at 5:37 AM, GoldPaladin said:

Robin/Chrom and Corrin/Ryoma can pretty much solo most of their respective games.

Because it ain't like Ryoma misses half the game (more in Revelation), right? Or that Fates is unfriendly to low-manning.

2 hours ago, Lewyn said:

Many of the most powerful units were not horses but foot soilders.   Everyone uses Ayra, Lewyn, Brigid, Jamke, Larcei, etc etc.  Not as many people use Alec or Noish.  Lex and Sigurd are used always cause they are great units in addition to being on a horse.

And yet I rarely see them (referring to Ayra and the other foot units you mentioned) praised here... I wonder why...

Edited March 22, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Lewyn]

19 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Because it ain't like Ryoma misses half the game (more in Revelation), right? Or that Fates is unfriendly to low-manning.

And yet I rarely see them (referring to Ayra and the other foot units you mentioned) praised here... I wonder why...

Cause you are blind maybe. 

[Armagon]

3 hours ago, Lewyn said:

Many of the most powerful units were not horses but foot soilders.   Everyone uses Ayra, Lewyn, Brigid, Jamke, Larcei, etc etc.

Everyone there except Jamke's got Holy Blood, so this isn't really a great example.

17 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Cause you are blind maybe. 

Ok don't be that guy.

[Lewyn]

14 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Everyone there except Jamke's got Holy Blood, so this isn't really a great example.

Ok don't be that guy.

It's a fitting example.  According to Levant everyone who isn't a horse is useless.  Though of course you agree with everything he says so you seem to miss this.  

 

[Shadow Mir]

13 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

It's a fitting example.  According to Levant everyone who isn't a horse is useless. 

Or at least forces you to slow down constantly if you want them to contribute to a fight in any meaningful fashion, which is what I said on the last page. Because otherwise, they miss out because the mounted squad killed everything. This isn't helped by the fact that aside from foot units that become mounted on promotion, only one foot class gains movement when promoting, whereas all mounted classes do.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Tetragrammaton]

2 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Or at least forces you to slow down constantly if you want them to contribute to a fight in any meaningful fashion, which is what I said on the last page. Because otherwise, they miss out because the mounted squad killed everything. This isn't helped by the fact that aside from foot units that become mounted on promotion, only one foot class gains movement when promoting, whereas all mounted classes do.

it is because of your play style.

those foot units are good, you just dont know how to use them properly.

it's your problem not ours.

[Jotari]

I really wouldn't mind if they made the maps standard size (and increased the number, obviously). Yeah, the big maps are a core aspect of Genealogy, but I'm more interested in just getting another Jugdral game at all than a FE4 port. I think a good game is more important than a faithful game. And I just generally think it could be fun to see the story from a different perspective like that, similar to the final few maps of Thracia 776. Nothing against the big maps (I'd even like to see a new, original game in that style) and I'd be delighted just as much if the remade the game with them (which I'm absolutely confident they will given how they treated Gaiden), but it's not like the alternative would be the worst thing imaginable. 

[Armagon]

6 hours ago, Lewyn said:

It's a fitting example.  According to Levant everyone who isn't a horse is useless.  Though of course you agree with everything he says so you seem to miss this.  

 

I will agree that there are some infantry units that are viable. The issue, is that said infantry has Holy Blood to compensate, which goes back to the whole unit balance issue. As i've said before, you need either a mount, Holy Blood, or Pursuit to be good. If you don't, too bad. And even with those Holy Blood infantry units, the game is still Horse Emblem. Mounted units will always get to the action first and even the good infantry units will fall behind.

If they can fix the unit balance and make it so that infantry units don't lag behind, then by all means, i'd be willing to play this game again. But we all know IS won't do that and they'll just remain as faithful as possible, doing only little changes.

Btw, i don't like what that last sentence seems to be implying. From what i get from it, it sounds like "you agree with Levant so your opinion is invalid".

[Shadow Mir]

7 hours ago, hanhnn said:

it is because of your play style.

those foot units are good, you just dont know how to use them properly.

it's your problem not ours.

Don't blame me. It isn't my fault the game blatantly favors mounted units. Or did you forget why this game often gets called Horse Emblem? Like I said earlier, I find it inconvenient as all hell that I have to constantly slow down if I want the likes of Ayra to contribute in any meaningful fashion. This is made even worse by the fact that before you actually start fighting, you have several turns of nothing but empty movement. Just to put things into perspective, most promoted mounted units have a 3 movement advantage over most infantry - the same as the movement gap between knights and mounts in most games. How is this okay??? Sure, the Rescue staff and Leg Ring exist, but the former only has so many uses, and you better hope the right person gets the latter, else you have to go through the pawn shop.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Lewyn]

That same argument can be made for every fire emblem game.  Just use the most powerful cavalry or flier units anything else slows you down. Etc Etc

Anyways as Jotari said, if FE4 is remade it will keep the big maps.  They were very faithful in FE Gaiden.  One of the biggest draws of Genealogy and things that make it stand out the most are huge maps, so they certainly wouldn't change that to satisfy a few complainers.  

Onto other matters.  Yes I would love the same artist that did Echoes of Valentia.  That is by far my favorite art style.  It is absolutely gorgeous, they are dressed practically, everything looks clean, and it isn't overly fan servicy either.  Cut scenes for key moments, and many more optional mid chapter interactions to build and develop the characters more.  

The soundtrack should be arranged for orchestra, they should hire the Berlin Philharmonic or some other top orchestra to record it.  The composer/arranger could also extend tracks by further developing and varying themes.  

Obvious stuff like gold is all pooled, so any character can use it.  Being able to freely trade items.

Would like more depth into Manfroy and how the Loptr people suffered, his relationship with his daughter.  Also much more on Julius and Ishtar.  There is a lot of potential to expand many things, though have to be careful to not make it too bloated.  

I wonder though if we will get any other fire emblem remade though, apparently Echoes of Valentia didn't reach sales goals.  It was my favorite 3ds fire emblem, but I guess a lot of people passed on it, despite it being completely new for the majority of people outside Japan.   

[Shadow Mir]

32 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

That same argument can be made for every fire emblem game.  Just use the most powerful cavalry or flier units anything else slows you down. Etc Etc

Anyways as Jotari said, if FE4 is remade it will keep the big maps.  They were very faithful in FE Gaiden.  One of the biggest draws of Genealogy and things that make it stand out the most are huge maps, so they certainly wouldn't change that to satisfy a few complainers.  

Onto other matters.  Yes I would love the same artist that did Echoes of Valentia.  That is by far my favorite art style.  It is absolutely gorgeous, they are dressed practically, everything looks clean, and it isn't overly fan servicy either.  Cut scenes for key moments, and many more optional mid chapter interactions to build and develop the characters more.  

The soundtrack should be arranged for orchestra, they should hire the Berlin Philharmonic or some other top orchestra to record it.  The composer/arranger could also extend tracks by further developing and varying themes.  

Obvious stuff like gold is all pooled, so any character can use it.  Being able to freely trade items.

Would like more depth into Manfroy and how the Loptr people suffered, his relationship with his daughter.  Also much more on Julius and Ishtar.  There is a lot of potential to expand many things, though have to be careful to not make it too bloated.  

I wonder though if we will get any other fire emblem remade though, apparently Echoes of Valentia didn't reach sales goals.  It was my favorite 3ds fire emblem, but I guess a lot of people passed on it, despite it being completely new for the majority of people outside Japan.   

Except in other FE games, I never felt like I needed to go out of my way to have my foot units contribute to a battle. I don't get this feeling in Genealogy (aside from the one foot unit that gets the Leg Ring).. Knights are one of the most complained about classes because they generally can't keep up (it doesn't help that other, more mobile units tend to do their job almost as well).

So you're saying that they'll appease the fans at the cost of everyone else. That is a problem, as I see it. And I will NOT be very happy if they repeat their mistakes (e.g. go the way of Shadow Dragon). Also, honestly, there's a world of difference between remaking Gaiden and remaking Genealogy - there was practically no risk of alienating fans of the original game. I don't feel this is the case with regards to Genealogy.

Edited March 23, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Punished Dayni]

You know, I don't think I mentioned something that might be a good idea for this game and arguably the rest of the series: being able to place a path for a unit to follow. You could use it so that at the end of every turn where they have a path set and you didn't have them do something else that they'd move towards the set endpoint as efficiently as possible. I know certain situations this'd be useful for (*Chapter 2), and while it doesn't resolve a lot of people's issues, it could act to alleviate some issues.

[Jotari]

6 minutes ago, Dayni said:

You know, I don't think I mentioned something that might be a good idea for this game and arguably the rest of the series: being able to place a path for a unit to follow. You could use it so that at the end of every turn where they have a path set and you didn't have them do something else that they'd move towards the set endpoint as efficiently as possible. I know certain situations this'd be useful for (*Chapter 2), and while it doesn't resolve a lot of people's issues, it could act to alleviate some issues.

We actually had something like this in Radiant Dawn (albeit for the entire army, not the more useful unit by unit as you're suggesting). I can't for the life ife figure out why they removed it. I for one found it useful.

[Jave]

I wouldn't mind having the big maps if, AND ONLY IF:

- Manage to make them less of a chore. The backtracking and dragging at some points is flat out ridiculous, and after every later FE has streamlined the gameplay, keeping it like this would be a huge step backwards.

- Add in indoor maps. Why not every time you seize a fort, you do a separate chapter (maybe call it a paralogue) that takes place inside the fort and you bring down the boss? Then when it's done you can continue in the big map were you left off.

- Give the maps more variety. This continues from what I said above, but all the maps being outside and almost all being Plains/Forest gets old real quick. The only different maps are the desert maps (which suck anyway) and the snowy Silesse map (which isn't that much varied either).

If they pull this off, sure, then keep the big maps. If you can't then by all means split them. I never felt the big maps were even a big need in the original FE4 game (it's not like you can roam the freely), so if a remake can be a better game by trimming them down, go ahead and do it. There's no need to compromise gameplay just for a gimmick.

Oh, and in general: Add in a Support system with convos and get rid of the Pawn Shop trading system. It was dumb this was even a thing in the original. If you want to keep it so that two units have to be at a base to trade, sure, that's fine, but selling an item to rebuy it just for trading? Screw that.

[Jotari]

So am I the only one who likes pawn shop trading and individual gold stores? Makes the characters feel like they're actually employed and have their own life that they share with a family member (definitely wouldn't object to choosing where newly acquired items go however).

Edited March 23, 2018 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

Hm, can't say I don't. I think it's a little neat aspect of resource management. If I could change something about it, is for enemies' gold to drop onto the killer (thieves and or Thief Sword users can still steal without needing to kill). I do feel that with the original, there's not that much money to go around (though in that case then stuff like repairing the higher-tiered weapons should have higher costs to offset that; or kill-drops are just a % while stealing gets you the full amount).

Edited March 23, 2018 by Acacia Sgt

[Armagon]

44 minutes ago, Jotari said:

So am I the only one who likes pawn shop trading and individual gold stores? Makes the characters feel like they're actually employed and have their own life that they share with a family member (definitely wouldn't object to choosing where newly acquired items go however).

The issue with the Pawn Shop is that it's just so damn inconvenient when compared to literally every other game in the series. It just sucks when you accidentally get a weapon or item on the wrong unit so you have to backtrack all the way to a castle just so that you can pass it on to the right unit.

Individual gold bothers me less but i think it'd just prefer the normal way of handling gold. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

On 3/20/2018 at 9:39 AM, Jotari said:

*A Generation 0 where you play as Byron during the Isaac conflict. I want to finally see Prince Kurth in person!

 

I would love this as DLC like the Rise of the Deliverance or Hidden Truths. It'd flesh out a lot of characters, Kurth, Byron, Ring, Lombard, Reptor, Andrei, and Mariccle on the Issachan side (maybe Manaan, Ayra and Shannan can make a quick appearance in the first fight). You'd control a lot of fixed stat generic NPCs for this though, not that I'd mind.

Battle 1- The Crossing of Yied Desert. (All fights are played from the Grannvalian side b/c more named characters.)

• Setting out from Velthomer, Edda, or Darna, the Grannvalian Army must cross the Yied Desert to reach Issach. Knowing Grannvale will be nearly unstoppable once it arrives in Issach, Marricle intends to assault and harass them as much as he can while the massive force is slogged down in the desert sands. All in hopes whittling down the Grannvalian force significantly and ideally send them retreating before they reach Issach. Grannvale must beware, Issach has hired Silessan and Thracian mercenaries to strike from the skies unimpeded! Defend and escort the convoy/certain NPCs!

Battle 2- Taking Issach.

• While Lord Ring and his son Andrey are sent against Tirnanog to Issach's north, the main force consisting of everyone else approach Castle Rivough. Mariccle orders the castle to hold, while sending a pincer attack from Sophara and Castle Issach. Take Rivough quickly, defend it, and then take one of Sophara and Issach.

Battle 3- The Fall of Issach

• Grannvale having seized Sophara or Castle Issach, and Tirnanog offscreen, Mariccle chooses to hold out in Ganeishire and fight to the end. Duke Byron's candid proposals for a just surrender for Mariccle, whom he finds a noble soul, having been deflected by Reptor and Lombard, who stole Prince Kurth's opinion for that moment. Brandishing Balmung Marricle fights like a man with nothing to lose, slay him and end Issach's resistance to Grannvalian will and power!

Battle 4- Calamity in Issach

• Byron is saddened by the death of Prince Mariccle, but finds solace in this terrible campaign having reached its end. As Prince Kurth prepares to leave Issach, with Byron, entrusted with the temporary occupation and reestablishment of authority in Issach, saying his farewells to the Prince, the unthinkable happens. Prince Kurth is assassinated, Duke Byron finds himself blamed for the act that very morning after the murder! Lombard and Reptor, as if by planning, move in to arrest Byron by force. But Byron will not let himself be caught! Byron decides to flee to Tirnanog, where Duke Ring his dear friend is, he will believe him and stand by him against these false charges. But alas! Ring is then murdered by Andrey his son as he notices what is happening to Byron. Nonetheless, Byron fights on and plows his way to Tirnanog knowing Grannvalian forces are fewest there. Retreat to Tirnanog and defeat all that stands in your way! Along the way and at the destination, the Issachans soldiers who survived Marricle's defeat come to Byron's side, having heard as Byron has that Sigurd son of Byron protects the heir to Issach Prince Shannan and his aunt Princess Ayra to Behalla's dismay. Thus, the Issach people agree to defend Byron and shelter him at all costs until at last he can reunite with his son and then hopefully restore Issach to its proper glory.

Edited March 23, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[Acacia Sgt]

That's certainly a cool idea.

In addition, perhaps there could be also a mini-campaign depicting the last stages of Granvale's conquest of the continent. As a sort of "enemy side campaign", like that one DLC chapter in New Mystery with Garneph and the new enemy characters. Playing through the conquest of Silessia, Manster, and Miletos; and speaking of Miletos, flesh that part of Jugdral to be more than just "pass through here and reach Chalphy". Heck, I'd want to see Miletos more fleshed out. In the original game, it seems to be just... there. I think it's only ever mentioned to be an independent region that thrived on trade. Perhaps it was merchant republic, predating Carcino as the first of its kind in FE? But nothing much is ever said of it.

Edited March 23, 2018 by Acacia Sgt

[Tetragrammaton]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

So am I the only one who likes pawn shop trading and individual gold stores? Makes the characters feel like they're actually employed and have their own life that they share with a family member (definitely wouldn't object to choosing where newly acquired items go however).

You're not alone, I'm with you.

I like personal inventory so you can't abuse the same good weapon with a bunch of units

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I would love this as DLC like the Rise of the Deliverance or Hidden Truths. It'd flesh out a lot of characters, Kurth, Byron, Ring, Lombard, Reptor, Andrei, and Mariccle on the Issachan side (maybe Manaan, Ayra and Shannan can make a quick appearance in the first fight). You'd control a lot of fixed stat generic NPCs for this though, not that I'd mind.

Battle 1- The Crossing of Yied Desert. (All fights are played from the Grannvalian side b/c more named characters.)

• Setting out from Velthomer, Edda, or Darna, the Grannvalian Army must cross the Yied Desert to reach Issach. Knowing Grannvale will be nearly unstoppable once it arrives in Issach, Marricle intends to assault and harass them as much as he can while the massive force is slogged down in the desert sands. All in hopes whittling down the Grannvalian force significantly and ideally send them retreating before they reach Issach. Grannvale must beware, Issach has hired Silessan and Thracian mercenaries to strike from the skies unimpeded! Defend and escort the convoy/certain NPCs!

Battle 2- Taking Issach.

• While Lord Ring and his son Andrey are sent against Tirnanog to Issach's north, the main force consisting of everyone else approach Castle Rivough. Mariccle orders the castle to hold, while sending a pincer attack from Sophara and Castle Issach. Take Rivough quickly, defend it, and then take one of Sophara and Issach.

Battle 3- The Fall of Issach

• Grannvale having seized Sophara or Castle Issach, and Tirnanog offscreen, Mariccle chooses to hold out in Ganeishire and fight to the end. Duke Byron's candid proposals for a just surrender for Mariccle, whom he finds a noble soul, having been deflected by Reptor and Lombard, who stole Prince Kurth's opinion for that moment. Brandishing Balmung Marricle fights like a man with nothing to lose, slay him and end Issach's resistance to Grannvalian will and power!

Battle 4- Calamity in Issach

• Byron is saddened by the death of Prince Mariccle, but finds solace in this terrible campaign having reached its end. As Prince Kurth prepares to leave Issach, with Byron, entrusted with the temporary occupation and reestablishment of authority in Issach, saying his farewells to the Prince, the unthinkable happens. Prince Kurth is assassinated, Duke Byron finds himself blamed for the act that very morning after the murder! Lombard and Reptor, as if by planning, move in to arrest Byron by force. But Byron will not let himself be caught! Byron decides to flee to Tirnanog, where Duke Ring his dear friend is, he will believe him and stand by him against these false charges. But alas! Ring is then murdered by Andrey his son as he notices what is happening to Byron. Nonetheless, Byron fights on and plows his way to Tirnanog knowing Grannvalian forces are fewest there. Retreat to Tirnanog and defeat all that stands in your way! Along the way and at the destination, the Issachans soldiers who survived Marricle's defeat come to Byron's side, having heard as Byron has that Sigurd son of Byron protects the heir to Issach Prince Shannan and his aunt Princess Ayra to Behalla's dismay. Thus, the Issach people agree to defend Byron and shelter him at all costs until at last he can reunite with his son and then hopefully restore Issach to its proper glory.

I'd also like to see what goes down with the soldiers from Rivoughs (Galzus cameo!), they caused the inviting  incident and yet we know nothing about them. With big maps in Genealogy, I reckon they could work through that plot while the Granbell Army moves east.

[Jave]

I just remembered, has anyone here played the recent re-release/remake of Romancing Saga 2? When you start a new file on that game, it asks you if you want to play with or without all added features, so basically you can choose between playing the original or the remake (even though the graphics and UI are the same on both, and the game recommends picking the mode with added features, specially if you're a new player).

Maybe they could do something like that? Let you choose between the original game with nothing but updated graphics and QoL updates, or the remake with additional features and reworked maps?

[Jotari]

Oh yeah, this game should totally have the Rescue command. It would help so much for transporting foot units. Kind of worried they won't add that obvious quality of life addition, considering they didn't in any of the other remakes and Rescue hasn't really been a thing for several games now.

[Flee Fleet!]

On 3/22/2018 at 10:03 AM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

And yet I rarely see them (referring to Ayra and the other foot units you mentioned) praised here... I wonder why...

Statistically, characters like Ayra, Lewyn, Jamke e.t.c. are considered better than characters like Noish and Alec, who's main advantage over them is having a horse. 

They're definitely good at combat, their only problem is having low movement in a game like FE4, which has big maps, as we all know.

 

On 3/23/2018 at 4:34 AM, Lewyn said:

That same argument can be made for every fire emblem game.  Just use the most powerful cavalry or flier units anything else slows you down. Etc Etc

To be quite honest footies slowing the whole team down in FE4 is a more bigger issue than in other games. The big maps prevent footies from engaging in more battles than the cavalry, and you often have to rush to save villages for which horsies are needed because of their high movement. Maps are smaller in every other FE game so trying to have the footies keep up with the cavalry is way easier.

For FE4, it really depends on your playstyle. If you want to rush the game you really just need to use cavaliers and fliers, but if you want to take your time, then you can have the footies fight alongside the horses without much loss.

 

On 3/23/2018 at 6:52 AM, Jotari said:

So am I the only one who likes pawn shop trading and individual gold stores? Makes the characters feel like they're actually employed and have their own life that they share with a family member (definitely wouldn't object to choosing where newly acquired items go however).

I think being able to have units trade weapons with each other without the use of some pawn shop is a better and less frustrating idea. Of course, the pawn shop could be used to sell weapons/items to acquire money, while said items/weapons can be bought later again if there's enough money, so there wouldn't be a situation of permanently losing an item you had to sell to get some cash.

Oh, and individual gold stores should definitely stay. I think that's something easier to manage than just one stash of money shared by all. They should also allow us to choose how much money lovers can give to each other and thieves could give to other units.

12 hours ago, Jotari said:

Oh yeah, this game should totally have the Rescue command. It would help so much for transporting foot units. Kind of worried they won't add that obvious quality of life addition, considering they didn't in any of the other remakes and Rescue hasn't really been a thing for several games now

It would definitely be a good idea to have Rescue for transporting foot units, although it can be a bit of a hassle to constantly Rescue and Drop characters just so everyone gets the chance to do something. Then again, I can't really think of any alternative to fix the movement issue of footies in FE4...