Fire Emblem 4 Echoes Ideas

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, Flee Fleet! said:

Statistically, characters like Ayra, Lewyn, Jamke e.t.c. are considered better than characters like Noish and Alec, who's main advantage over them is having a horse. 

They're definitely good at combat, their only problem is having low movement in a game like FE4, which has big maps, as we all know.

 

To be quite honest footies slowing the whole team down in FE4 is a more bigger issue than in other games. The big maps prevent footies from engaging in more battles than the cavalry, and you often have to rush to save villages for which horsies are needed because of their high movement. Maps are smaller in every other FE game so trying to have the footies keep up with the cavalry is way easier.

For FE4, it really depends on your playstyle. If you want to rush the game you really just need to use cavaliers and fliers, but if you want to take your time, then you can have the footies fight alongside the horses without much loss.

 

I think being able to have units trade weapons with each other without the use of some pawn shop is a better and less frustrating idea. Of course, the pawn shop could be used to sell weapons/items to acquire money, while said items/weapons can be bought later again if there's enough money, so there wouldn't be a situation of permanently losing an item you had to sell to get some cash.

Oh, and individual gold stores should definitely stay. I think that's something easier to manage than just one stash of money shared by all. They should also allow us to choose how much money lovers can give to each other and thieves could give to other units.

It would definitely be a good idea to have Rescue for transporting foot units, although it can be a bit of a hassle to constantly Rescue and Drop characters just so everyone gets the chance to do something. Then again, I can't really think of any alternative to fix the movement issue of footies in FE4...

If you eliminate the Pawn Shop and impliment unrestricted trading, then individual gold stocks become pointless. You can just buy or fix an item with one character and trade it to another. The only possible use would be for repairing holy weapon, assuming they're locked to an individual character. In which case, you'd simply keep all of money for the holy blood users regulated to repairing holy weapons, and all the non holy blood characters would be on buying/repairing things. Or to put it another way, money is used to buy things, if things are freely tradable, then so is money.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Jotari

[Flee Fleet!]

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

If you eliminate the Pawn Shop and impliment unrestricted trading, then individual gold stocks become pointless. You can just buy or fix an item with one character and trade it to another. The only possible use would be for repairing holy weapon, assuming they're locked to an individual character. In which case, you'd simply keep all of money for the holy blood users regulated to repairing holy weapons, and all the non holy blood characters would be on buying/repairing things. Or to put it another way, money is used to buy things, if things are freely tradable, then so is money.

Hm, that's true. So the individual gold stores are linked with the pawn shop, and both have to be together to work as intended. 

Now I'm conflicted on whether I want trading or pawn shops. I guess I'll say that Pawn Shops should remain in FE4 since its unique to it...

[Tetragrammaton]

3 hours ago, Flee Fleet! said:

Hm, that's true. So the individual gold stores are linked with the pawn shop, and both have to be together to work as intended. 

Now I'm conflicted on whether I want trading or pawn shops. I guess I'll say that Pawn Shops should remain in FE4 since its unique to it...

Pawn shop won't work with freely trade items.

Imagine that you have 1 Balmunk and 3 Major Odo, well, in other game you can spam as many as you can until the Holy Item breaks in just 1 turn.

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by hanhnn

[Shrimpica]

I don't think many people will like that Idea, but i am gonna post it anyway. 

What if you could teleport/warp (non-Horse) Units between Castles you captured? Will reduce alot of the hassle and annoying backtrack tbh.

[Slumber]

8 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

I don't think many people will like that Idea, but i am gonna post it anyway. 

What if you could teleport/warp (non-Horse) Units between Castles you captured? Will reduce alot of the hassle and annoying backtrack tbh.

That seems fairly reasonable, and it's an idea I've had, too. Warp staves are all over Jugdral. Just make a line of dialogue saying something about castles having Warp points that people can attune to. It'd reinforce the villains warping all over the place, too. 

Though it'd probably be weird with events like Shannan and Patty escaping Yied. Why wouldn't Shannan just warp back to Isaach? 

Edited April 5, 2018 by Slumber

[Tetragrammaton]

7 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

I don't think many people will like that Idea, but i am gonna post it anyway. 

What if you could teleport/warp (non-Horse) Units between Castles you captured? Will reduce alot of the hassle and annoying backtrack tbh.

I don't know. Why you don't try the old game to see what is this Warp Staff doing in the game?

[Shrimpica]

7 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Though it'd probably be weird with events like Shannan and Patty escaping Yied. Why wouldn't Shannan just warp back to Isaach? 

Could be explained by them not being able to access the Castle Warp point or something.

[Acacia Sgt]

2 hours ago, Slumber said:

Though it'd probably be weird with events like Shannan and Patty escaping Yied. Why wouldn't Shannan just warp back to Isaach? 

Yied Shrine was stated to be a crumbling ruin. Just have them state it doesn't work there becuase of it.

[Slumber]

4 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Yied Shrine was stated to be a crumbling ruin. Just have them state it doesn't work there becuase of it.

That would work. 

I am starting to like this idea a bit more. There's rarely ever times where you need to go BACK to places after making progress. It'd just make it much easier for units who have fallen behind to catch up, and it'd help justify keeping the big maps of the Jugdral games. 

I don't think it'd do too much to minimize the "horse emblem"ness of FE4, but the idea of cavalry rushing to capture a castle, with infantry warping in to provide back up as other armies advance could lead to some neat moments, and it'd certainly help Ardan and Hannibal.

Might make the castle defense aspect a little too easy, though. 

Edited April 5, 2018 by Slumber

[BBM]

i'm okay with a pretty faithful rendering of FE4. tbh I would be fine if non-utility/non-holy weapon infantry sucked again but some balance suggestions:

I would probably just nerf holy weapon bonuses so that you're not almost useless without one in Gen 2 and make the maps a bit smaller and remove roads. Roads only exacerbate the move difference between infantry and mounted units, and making map size smaller would remove the need. I would probably also remove the weapon crit bonus, or reduce the max crit you can get. It just adds a snowball effect with regards to beating the game with a handful of characters, when FE4 was trying to go for a whole army vs army thing.

I don't think the argument that a straight FE4 remake would be a bust because SD was a bust is good. Firstly, SD wasn't that straight a remake- reclass for example was a pretty huge mechanic change. Secondly, they tried to get SD to have sales equivalent to a brand new game, which it was never going to have. FE4 Echoes doesn't need to sell like Fates, it just needs to make some cash between main entry games. If that means you're not going to get many people who didn't like the original, that's fine. Thirdly, FE4 is a game with a lot more interesting mechanics and vibe than FE1. You might not like those mechanics, but it's definitely not bland in terms of gameplay. Fourthly, the size of the FE market is a lot bigger now than it was back before SD, and there are a lot of new FE fans who haven't played FE4 but know FE4 characters because of Heroes, and will pick up the game bc of that. With SD they were banking on people recognizing Marth from Smash, but as it turns out Smash and FE are two totally different types of games, who knew???

[Kysafen]

Idea: Make FE4's two halves as separate games in the vein of FE5, with smaller maps and tighter level design, and use the same engine to basically remake Thracia 776. You save money by using more or less the same engine 3 games in a row and you don't have to waste all that time in chapter 4 moving all your units around that fucking mountain range.

[Jotari]

10 hours ago, Slumber said:

That would work. 

I am starting to like this idea a bit more. There's rarely ever times where you need to go BACK to places after making progress. It'd just make it much easier for units who have fallen behind to catch up, and it'd help justify keeping the big maps of the Jugdral games. 

I don't think it'd do too much to minimize the "horse emblem"ness of FE4, but the idea of cavalry rushing to capture a castle, with infantry warping in to provide back up as other armies advance could lead to some neat moments, and it'd certainly help Ardan and Hannibal.

Might make the castle defense aspect a little too easy, though. 

Ha! You speak as if the castle defense was ever a legitmate aspect of the game.

[Slumber]

Just now, Jotari said:

Ha! You speak as if the castle defense was ever a legitmate aspect of the game.

It could be. 

[Jotari]

3 minutes ago, Slumber said:

It could be. 

I know, I really wish it was. Only four times in the game do they really try to retake a castle, two of those times you recruit the force by talking to it's leader and the another time an NPC army eradicates the threat before you can even do anything about it. Areone's massive wyveren assault is the only legitmate defense portion of the game (outside of the opening few turns of each chapter).

[Slumber]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I know, I really wish it was. Only four times in the game do they really try to retake a castle, two of those times you recruit the force by talking to it's leader and the another time an NPC army eradicates the threat before you can even do anything about it. Areone's massive wyveren assault is the only legitmate defense portion of the game (outside of the opening few turns of each chapter).

Though that does bring up that I do think I would like an expanded castle defense system in an FE4 Echoes.

I said that it'd be neat if they could make each castle have an indoor section where you have to get through more units before making it to the throne, as opposed to just killing the units guarding the gates and boom, you're instantly at the throne.

Maybe you could do something like a Defense chapter every time an enemy enters the castle. 

There is a lot to digest with this idea, so I don't know how exactly I'd try to make it work right now, but I think it'd help break up some of the monotony of FE4, and foot units getting a buff indoors might help them a bit. 

[Jotari]

4 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Though that does bring up that I do think I would like an expanded castle defense system in an FE4 Echoes.

I said that it'd be neat if they could make each castle have an indoor section where you have to get through more units before making it to the throne, as opposed to just killing the units guarding the gates and boom, you're instantly at the throne.

Maybe you could do something like a Defense chapter every time an enemy enters the castle. 

There is a lot to digest with this idea, so I don't know how exactly I'd try to make it work right now, but I think it'd help break up some of the monotony of FE4, and foot units getting a buff indoors might help them a bit. 

A small indoor section, even as small as the place where your units gather, would really juice things up I think. It would make bossess a bit more climactic on the enemy side, and on the player side it would make the (basically nonexistant) defense portions a bit more difficult than simply sticking a tank on your castle and witnessing them take on the entire squadron with no ill effects.

[DemolisherBPB]

 Personally I'd want it to be the original plans for the game. The big 3 game telling one big epic story rather than what we got of 2 games with an okay but somewhat unexplained and lacking story. A lot including showing how bad the second gen is really. I felt like I was told things are bad but Seliphs mere presences seemed to improve life. Or even somethings to link the game and Thracia 776 more like getting Saias, and thus getting Valflame, or hell actually letting Patty and Febail have a conversation with Brigid since she is not dead. But this is more of a make what was once wanted, but I feel that's a little far stretched now.

I would mostly like all the lovers to have actual conversations rather than some of them and making it feel like you did the wrong one so you get less world building and character development because you made the wrong choice. And I know this ones a little silly but actually make the event tiles more knowable, rather than having to have the wiki up to know where to put someone, even if it's similar to NMotE base conversations and gives you a vauge hint.

The other thing I would say is let the kids inherit everything, even if they can't equip it and put it in their storage just so they can sell it later/give it to someone, I would also say enable trade between siblings and lovers.

[Rose482]

I won't mind an avatar tbh, I know there is the chance he/she might just take screen time that shouldn't be for them, but for all we know it could give us more story about the world, which wouldn't be bad, but apart of me really doubts we would get an avatar, i just don't see how they would even add them to this game.

 

 

I also would love for them to remove the big maps and makes them into smaller maps, i know some people might say that FE4's big maps are what make it special or something like that, but i really don't like having to always be on rush to save some village that's on the other side of the map, really this screws any unit that doesn't have horse, which i don't like, i don't want to be forced into using my horse units every single time.

 

 

And yeah they children hair color should change depending on who the father is, and of course this game should have supports.

 

I truly feel like they could make an amazing FE4 remake if they wanted too, but i still worry about how they will handle the very dark story, really i won't be shocked if we never got a remake just becasue of that.

 

[Lewyn]

3 hours ago, DemolisherBPB said:

 Personally I'd want it to be the original plans for the game. The big 3 game telling one big epic story rather than what we got of 2 games with an okay but somewhat unexplained and lacking story. A lot including showing how bad the second gen is really. I felt like I was told things are bad but Seliphs mere presences seemed to improve life. Or even somethings to link the game and Thracia 776 more like getting Saias, and thus getting Valflame, or hell actually letting Patty and Febail have a conversation with Brigid since she is not dead. But this is more of a make what was once wanted, but I feel that's a little far stretched now.

 

Could you give more details on the original plans for the game?  I was not aware that it was supposed to be a trilogy, though that sounds absolutely incredible.  

I don't want an avatar, I generally dislike them.  However if one must include them, then Oifeye would be perfect.  Young squire/advisor in the 1st gen and veteran fighter in the 2nd gen.  

[Jotari]

42 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Could you give more details on the original plans for the game?  I was not aware that it was supposed to be a trilogy, though that sounds absolutely incredible.  

I don't want an avatar, I generally dislike them.  However if one must include them, then Oifeye would be perfect.  Young squire/advisor in the 1st gen and veteran fighter in the 2nd gen.  

 

[BBM]

I'm not really a fan of the indoor idea tbh. While it's true that FE4 maps get a bit repetitive with just a castle seize every time, I don't see how it adds more of a climax? just feels like it would add more length and more stuff to kill to a game that's already kind of long. It also takes away from the general large-scale vibe of the game. the reason fe4/fe5 are so polarizing for both better and worse is that they're the games where gameplay mechanics are tied most to the identity of the game. you don't want to add/remove stuff that takes away from that identity

I guess if you force units to dismount (and that carries stat penalties) it's something for infantry to do? but infantry are so far behind even getting to the castle most of the time. the infantry warping is like, a super contrived mechanic to provide value to infantry when there are other ways to make them more valuable (nerf Sigurd, nerf holy weapons, nerf weapon crit).

I also don't think backtracking is a big deal? It favours infantry because they can get started towards the second castle while your cavalry take the first castle. And you have Return/Warp to transport any important cavalry like Sigurd around.

[Slumber]

2 hours ago, Rose482 said:

I so would love for them to remove the big maps and makes them into smaller maps, i know some people might say that FE4's big maps are what make it special or something like that, but i really don't like having to always be on rush to save some village that's on the other side of the map, really this screws any unit that doesn't have horse, which i don't like, i don't want to be forced into using my horse units every single time. 

The damn villages argument. You're not supposed to feel rushed to save them. Most of them give relatively minor gold, the the ones that don't take 10 turns before the reward is gone. Things like the gold are extra incentive to do better, but if you can't save them and get a bigger reward, it's no big deal. 

And there are ways to balance the game so that mounted units don't run rampant without removing the big maps. They could be streamlined and it could be easier, but I am pretty against removing the big maps entirely. 

[Tetragrammaton]

Agree, you don't have to save village. There won't be any secret recruitment like other game if you fail to save the village

[Shadow Mir]

16 hours ago, BBM said:

I don't think the argument that a straight FE4 remake would be a bust because SD was a bust is good. Firstly, SD wasn't that straight a remake- reclass for example was a pretty huge mechanic change. Secondly, they tried to get SD to have sales equivalent to a brand new game, which it was never going to have. FE4 Echoes doesn't need to sell like Fates, it just needs to make some cash between main entry games. If that means you're not going to get many people who didn't like the original, that's fine. Thirdly, FE4 is a game with a lot more interesting mechanics and vibe than FE1. You might not like those mechanics, but it's definitely not bland in terms of gameplay. Fourthly, the size of the FE market is a lot bigger now than it was back before SD, and there are a lot of new FE fans who haven't played FE4 but know FE4 characters because of Heroes, and will pick up the game bc of that. With SD they were banking on people recognizing Marth from Smash, but as it turns out Smash and FE are two totally different types of games, who knew???

Okay, so SD might not have been a straight remake, but nonetheless it was too faithful to the original, and the game quality suffered as a result. I fear that a straight FE4 remake would be a bust as well just on account of how polarizing it already is... and personally, I'd disagree on it having interesting mechanics and on it not being bland gameplay wise.

[Acacia Sgt]

As far as "faithful remake" goes, Echoes of Valentia should be more relevant on the route they may take, instead of looking at the much older DS remakes... and perhaps also in how it could be received.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Acacia Sgt