Hasnbaakoajsbakaiaja Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) Alright guys. I need your help. I am having a bit of a quarrel with some FE fans on discord on whether Marcus is a good unit or not in FE7. I have tried everything I could to convince them how amazing he is, I've showed them Mangs videos and still nothing. They think its just my opinion and I am in the minority. Can u guys tell me your take on Marcus as a unit? Please spread the word and VOTE! Thanks guys! Edited August 21, 2017 by 1japanfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkDestr0yer61 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 A) Great Bases B) Great Availability C) Great Weapon Ranks D) Paladin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 HAHAHA, he is good no matter what your play style is. I really thought the FE community had moved past the "Jeigans are bad!" mentality. Jeigans are GOOD. Even the OG Jeigan is good in Shadow Dragon. For LTC he is a must, unless you you put a self imposed ban on him because you want more of a challenge. For casually play, he is like basically invincible. The only way he is "bad" is in the Average 20/20 Stats department. And that is only when comparing him to the other Paladin's 20/20 stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 He's not only good, he's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punished Dayni Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) I don't think he's perfect (I've actually seen him not be viable in HHM lategame (from Victory of Death on, so not even that much time), which was essentially because he was speed screwed), but that's not the point: Marcus is kinda amazing in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing, and as a Jeigan is usually a viable unit to the end. It makes sense to use him, hence why I must lack it. Edited August 21, 2017 by Dayni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Holy Elf Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I think Serenes currently errs a bit on the side of overrating jeigans (Marcus is worse in Light than other top-tier units are in their worst chapters) but he's still obviously extremely good. He's in a good class and is more or less the best unit in your army for the first third of the game, minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Boy people are praising Marcus here for some reason or the other and I think a few points need to be stated. It all really depends on whether or not you have played Lyn's mode and grinded either Sain or Kent. If you have played it, they will most likely outpace him in the long run. Otherwise he's there to serve his purpose which is in the early game he starts out with. The problem with Marcus is that he steals valuable EXP that your other units may need to get better so personally I try to avoid using him as much as possible until I have no choice but to use him. Although he can make for a decent defender for Merlinus tent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Yes, he's good, for reasons already stated. He's not Seth levels of crazy, but he can hold his own from start to finish. I try to avoid using him though, for the sake of self imposed challenges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKAfterbrun Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Marcus is an ok unit. But what makes him somewhat debatable is the fact it's hard to feed him levels early on without making your other units trash. But if you don't use him before the Dragon's Gate map, he may fall behind quicker then you'd expect. (That happened to me on my first play through) If you intend to use him, start feeding him level in chapter 15E/16H. Mostly with boss kills and reinforcements. That way he can be both useful in later maps and used as a backup if needed if your main paladin falls. For me he's an on-the-fence unit, useful but only when I need the backup. Unlike FE8s Seth, Marcus doesn't always become a powerhouse. He maybe better the Isadora, but he's got less levels to grow compared to Kent, Sain, and Lowen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazuya Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I liked Marcus, but he wasn't exactly needed for me. As a unit, he is fine, but like Lowen and Sain are better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasnbaakoajsbakaiaja Posted August 21, 2017 Author Share Posted August 21, 2017 42 minutes ago, Kazuya said: I liked Marcus, but he wasn't exactly needed for me. As a unit, he is fine, but like Lowen and Sain are better. I don't mean from your personal experience. Just if he is a good unit or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazuya Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, 1japanfan said: I don't mean from your personal experience. Just if he is a good unit or not. "As a unit, he is fine.." Marcus is reallly good in 7 when need a back up paladin or you are having problems with a boss, but he isn't useful later on like a lot of pre-promos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasnbaakoajsbakaiaja Posted August 21, 2017 Author Share Posted August 21, 2017 14 minutes ago, Kazuya said: "As a unit, he is fine.." Marcus is reallly good in 7 when need a back up paladin or you are having problems with a boss, but he isn't useful later on like a lot of pre-promos. what makes him fall off in the end? FE7 enemies get easier as you go along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB44 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Marcus is just about the best unit in the game. Having full weapon triangle access, 8 move, and great bases he just about decimates most enemies that fe7 throws at you. Using him would only make life in hard mode a lot easier. Even if he is not as good as a trained Sain or Kent, all that means is that you have 3 great Paladins to use instead of just 1 or 2, because no unit is rendered useless by the existence of another in Fire Emblem. You could just feed him boss kills early game, or give him slim weapons if you're concerned with xp stealing (which is a valid concern if going for a ranked run). Even then, with units such as Rebecca and Dorcas early on, one could argue that xp is being wasted on these units instead if you feed them early game kills instead of Marcus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ping Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 4 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said: I think Serenes currently errs a bit on the side of overrating jeigans (Marcus is worse in Light than other top-tier units are in their worst chapters) but he's still obviously extremely good. He's in a good class and is more or less the best unit in your army for the first third of the game, minimum. I dunno about that. The basis of the generally high ratings on this site for Jeigans is that endgame performance is not intrinsically more valuable than performance earlier on. Personally, I find that reasonable - Fire Emblem games usually don't have a steadily increasing difficulty curve, and "can kill/severly hurt the final boss" is seldom an exclusive feature for only very few units. So unless the earlygame is a walk in the park even without the Jeigan, I think it's fair to give him credit for that, and Marcus even stays strong for the majority of the game. Sure, he's kinda bad in Victory or Death and probably bench material afterwards, but there's also the fact that Sain and Kent only join in the 6th chapter (in Hector's story). Furthermore, I don't think that all Jeigans are considered top tier here, either. I believe that FE12!Arran, who has more and earlier competition than Marcus, is seen as rather unremarkable, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazuya Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 hour ago, 1japanfan said: what makes him fall off in the end? FE7 enemies get easier as you go along. For me, it was the units you receive that make him obsolete. There are better units out there and I prefer to use them instead of Marcus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazuya Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 39 minutes ago, ping said: I dunno about that. The basis of the generally high ratings on this site for Jeigans is that endgame performance is not intrinsically more valuable than performance earlier on. Personally, I find that reasonable - Fire Emblem games usually don't have a steadily increasing difficulty curve, and "can kill/severly hurt the final boss" is seldom an exclusive feature for only very few units. So unless the earlygame is a walk in the park even without the Jeigan, I think it's fair to give him credit for that, and Marcus even stays strong for the majority of the game. Sure, he's kinda bad in Victory or Death and probably bench material afterwards, but there's also the fact that Sain and Kent only join in the 6th chapter (in Hector's story). Furthermore, I don't think that all Jeigans are considered top tier here, either. I believe that FE12!Arran, who has more and earlier competition than Marcus, is seen as rather unremarkable, for example. Arran has a disease, so yeah he is very unremarkable, he was bad in other games too. He really isn't worth using unless you are having issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Kazuya said: "As a unit, he is fine.." Marcus is reallly good in 7 when need a back up paladin or you are having problems with a boss, but he isn't useful later on like a lot of pre-promos. Marcus is the best unit in the game period. He has far more long term contributions than anyone else in the entire game. Is this myth of prepromotes still in 2017 for real? Good Lord. Edited August 21, 2017 by Jedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazuya Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, Jedi said: Marcus is the best unit in the game period. He has far more long term contributions than anyone else in the entire game. Is this myth of prepromotes still in 2017 for real? Good Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazuya Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Lag is fun, sorry. Anyways, Marcus isn't bad. Not all pre-promos are bad. Titania is my queen, and I love me some Tatiana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Kazuya said: Lag is fun, sorry. Anyways, Marcus isn't bad. Not all pre-promos are bad. Titania is my queen, and I love me some Tatiana. "Marcus isn't bad" is implying you don't think he's good either, also on Arran, he's solid in FE3 and is able to get the gems like everyone else, and in FE12 especially on lunatic he's one of your earliest and best contributors and when he falls behind he can continue working as a bishop still thanks to the innate stave rank. Edited August 21, 2017 by Jedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazuya Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Jedi said: "Marcus isn't bad" is implying you don't think he's good either, also on Arran, he's solid in FE3 and is able to get the gems like everyone else, and in FE12 especially on lunatic he's one of your earliest and best contributors and when he falls behind he can continue working as a bishop still thanks to the innate stave rank. As I said, he isn't bad. He is good, pretty sure I already stated that. Arran isn't as good for me, but that's due to how he is. As a bishop, hell yeah he is good especially if you need a healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkDestr0yer61 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Kazuya said: I liked Marcus, but he wasn't exactly needed for me. As a unit, he is fine, but like Lowen and Sain are better. I can't say I used Lowen much. But let's say Sain is amazing and super high level when you get him. Why should that stop you from using Marcus? Let's compare Marcus to Guy for example. Guy will have more speed than Marcus, but Marcus still has: More movement, more weapon options (plus higher weapon ranks), gba canto, and doesn't require a promotion item. There isn't really a a reason that "Guy should replace Marcus" aside from you personally want to use Guy (and hey, that's fair. Single player game and whatnot) or you want your team to be more than just Cavs. Even IF Sain was better at that point, Marcus is still more worth using than other units you get. Edited August 21, 2017 by DarkDestr0yer61 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazuya Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 34 minutes ago, DarkDestr0yer61 said: I can't say I used Lowen much. But let's say Sain is amazing and super high level when you get him. Why should that stop you from using Marcus? Let's compare Marcus to Guy for example. Guy will have more speed than Marcus, but Marcus still has: More movement, more weapon options (plus higher weapon ranks), gba canto, and doesn't require a promotion item. There isn't really a a reason that "Guy should replace Marcus" aside from you personally want to use Guy (and hey, that's fair. Single player game and whatnot) or you want your team to be more than just Cavs. Even IF Sain was better at that point, Marcus is still more worth using than other units you get. I used Lowen for a while but Sain was doing better, so I replaced Lowen with Sain. Both are really good. Marcus is still good, and yeah use whoever you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Marcus is way better than anyone else in early game, and is still relevant as a unit even towards the end. For Sain to match his offensive parameters, Sain needs to get to level 13 or something like 11/1. Even then Marcus takes mages a lot better, and that assumes that Marcus doesn't gain a single point of XP until Sain reappears. Sain wins the raw numbers game in the end, but Marcus' contributions outweigh Sain's overkill strength and speed - most FE7 enemies aren't very good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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