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Is Marcus a good unit in FE7?

Do you think Marcus is a good unit?  

94 members have voted

  1. 1. Is Marcus good?

    • Yes
      83
    • No
      11


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2 hours ago, Tamanoir said:

Marcus have the most broken class of FE7, and perfect availability. The fact he's actually not bad being mostly a bonus

Still, I don't buy the fact he's the best thing since slice bread. You can't just rely on him and expect to win all tne fight, and overusing him can end up being detrimental
He isn't Seth.
He isn't even Pent, who beat all oppositions as soon as he appears.
He is (really) good, but, unless you're a veteran player, he isn't the best unit ever, just a good one.

Just a question.
Is he actually in competition with the other paladins in efficient/ranked gameplay, is he really in competition with the other paladins ? Isn't it actually better to just use all of them ?

He's not Pent, but he beats everything up until Pent arrives at the very least :P

He's not really in competition with other paladins, no, since using more is obviously better. Getting all three of Sain, Kent and Lowen promoted takes pretty long, but using Marcus along side one or two of them is definitly how I would do it.

1 hour ago, Shoblongoo said:

...thats overstating it a bit...

Hector and Oswin come into their own pretty damn early.
 

They do, but it takes a while before they overtake Marcus in combat.

Oswin doesn't really need time to come into his own, he's already a brick wall from the moment you get him. His low movement and Speed means he's not at the same level as Marcus though.

Hector needs a few levels to get going, but his speed isn't to great. That means he'll have trouble killing some enemies since he can't double them, and not having a mount also hursts his usability.

Marcus on the other hand has enough speed to double mostly anything at the start of the game and he has a mount, which means more movement, rescue chaining, etc. The only thing Oswin and Hector really have over Marcus is bulk, and Marcus isn't even that bad off there.

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7 hours ago, Florete said:

Oh, certainly. It's just that when the actual amount of gained experience is actually a factor, "experience stealing" can be a legitimate issue. And Marcus is still among the best in ranked, just not the best.

I think that would be more on the player having difficulty of trying to allocate EXP, though. In regards to "EXP stealing" that is. Especially when it comes to boss kills, which could have the player losing more EXP using an unpromoted unit to kill the boss as opposed to using a promoted unit to do so.

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Hector and Oswin aren't surpassing Marcus until they promote, and in Hector's case in particular that can take a long time. Until then, Marcus has two extra weapons, 3-4 more points of move, and better stats in most areas that aren't defence.

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6 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Hector and Oswin aren't surpassing Marcus until they promote, and in Hector's case in particular that can take a long time. Until then, Marcus has two extra weapons, 3-4 more points of move, and better stats in most areas that aren't defence.

Actually, I'd say Hecor is an unit that becomes significantly worse over time. Firstly, his promotion is far too late to be anything relevant.

ANd his promotion is objectively kinda bad. (The worst of all 3 Lords, actually. Lyn gets 1 point of Move, and Bow access (which offers some utility), Eliwood gets a Horse . Hector gains a weapons access, but also a new weakness, and NO new movement. If you use Oswin, he'll probably be better by the point you get Hector (since he'll already be promoted by this point, even in EM).
While a point could be made for Oswin, if you don't care especially about turn counts, Hector is never actually going to surpasses Marcus (even for Killing the Final Boss, he's too slow to be truly relevant. The point stands for Eliwood however, though it will takes a lots of time and some luck to be as good as Marcus is at the start (there's no significative difference between average Eliwood 20/1 and Base Marcus.)

Marcus stays more or less consistent throughout the game (Excellent early on, and Good to descent later)

10 hours ago, Bartozio said:

He's not Pent, but he beats everything up until Pent arrives at the very least :P

He's not really in competition with other paladins, no, since using more is obviously better. Getting all three of Sain, Kent and Lowen promoted takes pretty long, but using Marcus along side one or two of them is definitly how I would do it.

Does it actually takes that long ? If you do Lyn Mode, Kaint and Sain will have all the experience they need and will be great for the get go (since you don't really need anything else than them in LM). Lowen needs some attentions, but his natural bulk should help him gets through the early game suite easily. And he doesn't have lots of competition for experence.

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1 hour ago, Tamanoir said:

Does it actually takes that long ? If you do Lyn Mode, Kaint and Sain will have all the experience they need and will be great for the get go (since you don't really need anything else than them in LM). Lowen needs some attentions, but his natural bulk should help him gets through the early game suite easily. And he doesn't have lots of competition for experence.

I meant it takes long before you can get all three promoted (because there aren't a lot of Knights Crests lying around). Getting one promoted doesn't take that long.

And while you're right that Sain and Kent are good from the moment you get them if you played LM, they do need some looking after if you didn't. Training up Lowen is pretty easy.

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Marcus isnt just a good unit in fe7

Hes arguably the best unit in the game. Only Lyn Mode abuse Horse  and a super hax florina can even come close to how dominant he is

 

The thing about Marcus abuse is that you really didnt get punished at all for doing Marcus spam. They keep raining you with wtf unit promoted or no. Over the course of the game Marcus will be joined by something like Heath Pent Isadora Hawkeye Harken Vaida. So just abuse Marcus to death and if you somehow get 14 Speed Marcus he lasts until like Victory or Death

Marcus is even more dominant in ranked play imo because the key chapter of FE7 Ranked are pretty much made for Marcus to break. 

Edited by JSND

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40 minutes ago, Lady Sansa said:

Nino > Marcus

I smell bait

Also come on, it's 2017 and people still complain that Jeigans steal EXP? On harder modes (where they're most valuable) and in the hands of a player who knows what they're doing all a Jagen does is soften up enemies for other weaker units to kill, bosskill to gain a couple of levels and get rid of tough/annoying bosses while ensuring that they remain above the power curve (if they're Oifeys) and kill those units you would not kill with other units because in harder modes if you're only killing with the early game scrubs you'll be overwhelmed and die horribly. I didn't play FE7 on hard mode, I never actually replayed the game I think, but I did play FE6 HM, where what I just said applies to FE6 Marcus, a weaker FE7 Marcus in a harder game, so I doubt what I just wrote doesn't hold up for FE7 Marcus as well.

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Best unit in the game. He's never weak at any point aside from strictly endgame. LV18-20 Marcus on (HHM) Victory or Death is still good. That puts things into perspective.

And early on you can just have him rescue someone you're not using to chip everything. And just about everything else about him is great.

"Stealing EXP" is also a pointless argument since there's plenty of time to train units in this game before enemies start scaling (unlike some other games). Even in HHM Ranked you probably still want to give him boss kills early on despite the EXP rank.

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1 hour ago, DLuna said:

"Stealing EXP" is also a pointless argument since there's plenty of time to train units in this game before enemies start scaling (unlike some other games). Even in HHM Ranked you probably still want to give him boss kills early on despite the EXP rank.

I would probably replace "despite" with "especially to help out with". Since, given how EXP calculation works, you'll probably end up losing more EXP using an unpromoted unit to kill a boss as opposed to a promoted unit.

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8 hours ago, DLuna said:

"Stealing EXP" is also a pointless argument since there's plenty of time to train units in this game before enemies start scaling (unlike some other games). Even in HHM Ranked you probably still want to give him boss kills early on despite the EXP rank.

It certainly won't kill your run to give Marcus some of the early boss kills, but if you can give them to someone else without sacrificing turns, it's probably a better idea to do so.

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13 hours ago, Florete said:

It certainly won't kill your run to give Marcus some of the early boss kills, but if you can give them to someone else without sacrificing turns, it's probably a better idea to do so.

Well the idea is that Marcus getting boss kills gives him enough EXP is occasionally level up, keeping his momentum (on average).

Put it this way, levelling a weak unit a few times is doing little to benefit you in the short term, while levelling a strong unit (to make them even stronger) even just once often makes a bigger difference in FE. For example, a weak unit may need 8-10 levels to ORKO specific enemies on average, while a stronger unit might only need 1 or 2 to put them in that range.

You can give Marcus boss kills because he seldom gains much EXP otherwise (assuming you're giving him as a few normal kills as possible). He'll still be strong without them for a long time, but this makes him even better for longer.

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1 hour ago, DLuna said:

Well the idea is that Marcus getting boss kills gives him enough EXP is occasionally level up, keeping his momentum (on average).

Put it this way, levelling a weak unit a few times is doing little to benefit you in the short term, while levelling a strong unit (to make them even stronger) even just once often makes a bigger difference in FE. For example, a weak unit may need 8-10 levels to ORKO specific enemies on average, while a stronger unit might only need 1 or 2 to put them in that range.

You can give Marcus boss kills because he seldom gains much EXP otherwise (assuming you're giving him as a few normal kills as possible). He'll still be strong without them for a long time, but this makes him even better for longer.

I know what the idea is. But when talking about ranked, you have to think differently. The fact of the matter is that in ranked, you're inevitably going to stop using Marcus (around Ch18-19 from my experience) because at some point the turns he saves are no longer worth the experience he doesn't get and when he does start gaining experience like everyone else he's worse than them and not really worth using. He's valuable for saving turns early on when there's not as much experience to be gained per turn and for helping your other units get strong enough to hold their own without him, not someone you will want to use long term to contribute to the experience rank directly.

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