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Fire Emblem Heroes ldea : ''Buyer Reward''


Emil Amnell
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ln regard to my previous post, which can be found at the link above, l came up with an idea, which l believe may have a better chance of working. Combining many ideas and opinions from many people who answered my previous idea, l may have targeted the main issues that people were mentionning. Hopefully, this idea will suit everyone better.

As the title say, a ''customer reward'' system could be implanted. Somewhat similar to the ''first free summon'' recently added, this system would reward people who purchase (not use or obtain freely) Orbs for a certain amount of money. The reward would be a any Hero of their choices (with certain restrictions, of course). All details will be further below. Now, please keep in mind that l am merely giving a basic idea. The ''final product'' would be up to the Devs.

For the part of purchasing Orbs : After you buy for 100$ worth of Orbs, you would be rewarded with a Hero. lt would work in a cumulative way until you reach 100$ (spending 100$ in one go is a bit excessive l think). So one week you buy for 30$ (prices are fictive), 40$ the next, and another 40$ after that. That'd make 110$ spend in Orbs so you would have a Hero. Since you passed the 100$ cap, it would return to 0. Thus, you'd still have to buy for 100$ and not 90$ despite having spend 110$ on the first shot.

Now, for ''Hero Reward'' part : There are 2 kinds of restriction that could be applied, one of them based on the ''Hero Catalog'' (HC). The details that can be applied regardless of the type of restriction are detailed below. 
-The first kind would be that you can choose a Hero that you have unlocked in the HC. Meaning that you couldn't get a Hero that you haven't unlocked with the Gacha System, which would help keeping the spirit of the game (personally, l prefer that one).
-The second kind is, as you might have guessed, that you can choose any Hero at all. People who are more with a ''Collector Mind'' will like this idea better (though l think it'd be easier for non-collectors to abuse it).

Other details :
-Regardless of which restriction would be chosen, any Hero received this way will have neutral Stats (no boons/banes or special nature, whatever you call it) and they will all be received at 1☆. This way, we would have to work to get them in proper shape.
-GHB Units should also be available, both for those who missed them and the skills they can bring (They are already free so it wouldn't be THAT much of a hit to the devs).
-For Exclusive Units such as Spring/Summer Units, l have no real preferences. General opinion should decide that one.
-There would be no restriction of 5☆ exclusives. You can pick ANY Hero you want, according to what restriction would be chosen on the 2 aboves.

l'm fully aware that we cannot please everyone and that many F2P players may greatly dislike this idea, as it encourages P2W players. Still, l think it'd be better than Trading Units and it wouldn't undermine the game system, nor kill its spirit. Plus, you can hardly abuse this system without (potentially) abusing your own bank account. And with this idea, l don't think we need to worry too much about the Devs losing money over this game.

 Feel free to add what you think would be best to improve it.
 

Edited by Emil Amnell
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As a web designer, the meaningless use of color bothers me a bit.

 

4 minutes ago, Emil Amnell said:

For the part of purchasing Orbs : After you buy for 100$ worth of Orbs, you would be rewarded with a Hero. lt would work in a cumulative way until you reach 100$ (spending 100$ in one go is a bit excessive l think). So one week you buy for 30$ (prices are fictive), 40$ the next, and another 40$ after that. That'd make 110$ spend in Orbs so you would have a Hero. Since you passed the 100$ cap, it would return to 0. Thus, you'd still have to buy for 100$ and not 90$ despite having spend 110$ on the first shot.

1. Not rolling over is dumb because of what the actual prices are and because prices are different based on the currency you are paying with. The closest you can get in the U.S. is $100.97 by buying 140 + 35 + 10 orbs.

Instead of real-world currency value, the value used should be in orbs, and overflow should roll over because not rolling over is dumb. Whether or not bonus orbs from buying larger packages count doesn't matter too much as there are pros and cons to either decision.

2. If this isn't retroactive, whales will not be happy. Personally, my greatest spending was during the month of February (where I spent 5 times more than I spend in one month now), and I would consider it exceptionally unfair if previous transactions weren't considered.

 

13 minutes ago, Emil Amnell said:

-Regardless of which restriction would be chosen, any Hero received this way will have neutral Stats (no boons/banes or special nature, whatever you call it) and they will all be received at 1☆. This way, we would have to work to get them in proper shape.

1 At best, only the first summon of a particular character in this manner would be useful at all, and that would only be if you did not already have the character or if all existing copies of the character you have have detrimental natures. All copies summoned after that are relegated to merge fodder or skill fodder.

2. No amount of work fixes a neutral nature.

3. Promoting said character to 5-star rarity for merging or 5-star skill fodder is a massive investment that is really only achievable at a reasonable scale by high-spenders, which limits the usefulness of this feature and alienates free-to-players.

 

Finally, this would, in fact, decrease sales of orbs from whales.

In particular, there is currently sufficient motivation for the highest of spenders to obtain 11 copies of at least one of the new characters in each new character banner. Using a simplified model of assuming an average of 5 orbs per pull (assuming that boards without the color you are pulling for perfectly balance boards with multiples of the color you are pulling for), 4 characters in a banner, no characters sharing the color of the character you are pulling for, and neutral overall color representation, it costs 1,800 orbs to pull 11 copies of a single focus character. Using the price in the U.S., that costs $980, which is almost 10 coupons for free summons, which is almost enough for another fully merged copy of a character.

This means that with your proposal, for every +10 merged focus character, Nintendo is losing about $400 worth of orb sales.

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If there's any sort of "bonus" for buying orbs, it will probably be something more minor. It's not quite the same for obvious reasons, but Pokemon Shuffle for instance, gives you 7 hearts (usually 5) and ~700 coins per check in (up from 500) throughout the month if you purchase some x amount of jewels.

So I could see, for instance, getting a bit more stamina (like 25 or 50 or w/e), or some extra items or a tiny multiplier of exp/sp/hm or whatever. Just a really minor bonus for the month that anyone who buys let's ballpark it to $20 of orbs. 

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You already get bonus orbs for purchasing a certain orb package ("Bonus Orbs are counted as unpaid Orbs."). Therefore, buyer rewards already exist.

9 orbs get you 1 bonus orb.

20 orbs get you 3 bonus orbs.

30 orbs get you 5 bonus orbs.

40 orbs get you 8 bonus orbs.

60 orbs get you 15 bonus orbs.

110 orbs get you 30 bonus orbs.

Edited by Roflolxp54
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I have no problem with a "Buyer reward", but it should be something else. The problem is, with how FEH works at the moment, there simply is no "something else" unless you count feathers.

Take Kingdom Hearts Union Cross for example. Once per week you can buy 3000 jewels and unlock weeklong VIP quests for 15€. Jewels aside, these weeklong quests do various things:

  • All quests which are active on a specific day are active the whole time
  • Quests which give more rewards you need to upgrade or strengthen your medals are available (---> less farming time for the player)
  • Some medals are only available for VIP players (I don't really like this, but it doesn't happen that often)
  • Some other rare upgrade materials are (limited) available for VIPs

If the various colored seals weren't as widely available as they are now or we would need even more besides them and feathers to upgrade heros, I could see something similar to reduce the farming. However, as I said before, FEH doesn't really have anything you need to farm in order to build strong heroes. The only thing that is limited are Feathers, and even those are actually rather easy to get nowadays. Unless we somehow get a really grindy system which allows us to permanently strengthen heroes without merging them I don't really forsee a use for a sort of "VIP Quest" for Orb Buyers.

Edited by Marston
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Honestly, that sounds way too complicated.

Choosing any hero is probably way too much. Not a good idea, and kind of defeats the whole gacha model.

A "paying customer reward" is not a terrible idea, it might get some people to spend. Lots of F2P games have a paying customer exclusive reward like a free mount or skin or that kind of thing, but it's usually a small cosmetic thing (which really isn't an option in FEH).

A more practical approach would be a one-time bonus to everyone who has spent ANY amount at any time. It might push some people to spend a few $ just to get it. But what?

My first thought was an exclusive My Castle background, maybe a golden carpet and have the building lined with treasure? That way it's aesthetic only, but still an exclusive bonus.

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19 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

As a web designer, the meaningless use of color bothers me a bit.

Lol I wouldn't call myself a web designer, but I have designed a few simple websites before.  The only thing my boss told me was no bullshit - no flying colored text and animated graphics all over the place.  

 

I just think all your ideas are excuses to give the player more free stuff.  One thing I did think of when I was reading this is a preferred/vip service.  Like maybe if a player spends $20.00 or more buying orbs they get promoted to preferred and get a few extra benefits like an extra orb a week or something.  Something to make me feel like I didn't waste my money when I spent $100.00 and only got 2 Summer Fredericks I didn't want.  But anything beyond that, as the others have said, it's just too complicated and gives too much to the player.  I'm happy with the rarity of the units in this game.

Sure, I don't always get the unis I want but that's what makes me want them so bad.

I think Ice_Dragon made the strongest point.  Making it easier for people to get orbs now would be a giant middle finger to all the people who spent a lot of money before.  

I like the idea of more custom backgrounds for the castle though.

Edited by Lushen
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On 27/08/2017 at 6:05 PM, Ice Dragon said:

This means that with your proposal, for every +10 merged focus character, Nintendo is losing about $400 worth of orb sales.

l see your point. Then, would my idea sound better if we limited the number of times where we can claim the same Hero to prevent this abuse? Something like 2 times for Units that can be summoned and 4 for GHB Units. For example, you can't claim more than 2 Ryoma. Once you've claimed him twice, he's no longer available.

More times for GHB Units is only because they can't be summoned like the others and personally, l'd really like to bolster my 5 Xander and F-Robin.

 

14 hours ago, Lushen said:

Sure, I don't always get the unis I want but that's what makes me want them so bad.

l understand perfectly but that's why l mentioned that one of the restrictions (and the one l prefer) should be that you can't ''claim for free'' a Hero that you haven't yet summoned. lf you want more of one Rare Units, you must get it legitimately, if l can say it like that. And as l said above, to prevent abuse of merging Units, there would be a limit on how many times you can claim the same Unit.

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2 minutes ago, Emil Amnell said:

l see your point. Then, would my idea sound better if we limited the number of times where we can claim the same Hero to prevent this abuse? Something like 2 times for Units that can be summoned and 4 for GHB Units. For example, you can't claim more than 2 Ryoma. Once you've claimed him twice, he's no longer available.

More times for GHB Units is only because they can't be summoned like the others and personally, l'd really like to bolster my 5 Xander and F-Robin.

A cooldown on each particular character would probably work better, but that still has the same problem where it rewards playing players too much and alienates free players.

 

While we're all giving examples of what other games do, here's Fate/Grand Order's version:

For background, in Fate/Grand Order, you can "merge" a single character a maximum of 4 times (a total of 5 copies) to fully power-up the character's Noble Phantasm, which is their "super" attack. Since this doesn't affect the character's other functions, such as their combat stats and skills, it's much more of a luxury than merges are in Heroes, where they affect the character's basic stats.

Also for background, the summon rates for rares are much, much lower in FGO. From the premium-currency banners, a 5-star character has a 1% summon rate, a 4-star character has a 3% summon rate, and a 3-star character has a 40% summon rate, with the remaining 56% split among Craft Essences, effectively equippable items that boost your characters' stats and can provide additional effects.

In FGO, after you have summoned 5 copies of a single 5-star character, any additional copies of that character will also reward you with a coupon for a special summon. With 10 coupons, you can summon any 5-star character of your choice that is currently in the gacha rotation.

 

Obviously, it's absurdly difficult to summon 5 copies of any single 5-star character unless you're whaling heavily, so free players will probably never see one of these coupons ever. Furthermore, summoning 10 additional copies of 5-star characters you already have 5 copies of is similarly absurdly difficult, meaning the special summon feature will very rarely actually be used.

On the other hand, because of how difficult it is to actually make use of this feature and how small the actual benefit is (a single copy of a 5-star character of your choice), this feature doesn't widen the gap between free players and paying players and is really just serves as a consolation prize for "hey, we gave you a bunch of really rare characters you literally have no use for" because there literally isn't a use for any copy of a character after your 5th copy besides running a duplicate character on your team or feeding them off to your other characters for leveling up (leveling up in FGO is done by manually feeding characters and experience point drops to your characters).

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9 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

A cooldown on each particular character would probably work better, but that still has the same problem where it rewards playing players too much and alienates free players.

Obviously, it's absurdly difficult to summon 5 copies of any single 5-star character unless you're whaling heavily, so free players will probably never see one of these coupons ever. Furthermore, summoning 10 additional copies of 5-star characters you already have 5 copies of is similarly absurdly difficult, meaning the special summon feature will very rarely actually be used.

On the other hand, because of how difficult it is to actually make use of this feature and how small the actual benefit is (a single copy of a 5-star character of your choice), this feature doesn't widen the gap between free players and paying players and is really just serves as a consolation prize for "hey, we gave you a bunch of really rare characters you literally have no use for" because there literally isn't a use for any copy of a character after your 5th copy besides running a duplicate character on your team or feeding them off to your other characters for leveling up (leveling up in FGO is done by manually feeding characters and experience point drops to your characters).

l won't argue with the fact that receiving a 5☆ Unit for free with my idea is indeed WAYYY too much. ln fact, l am opposed to such a thing. That's why l suggested for them to be received at 1☆. That way, whether you want to use them for their Skills or for Merging, you'll still have to invest time and Feathers in them. As you said, no amount could fix a neutral nature but these Units could be used in the meantime until we can summon a real one. Plus, with the ''claim limit'' at 2, you can't abuse this system and you'd have to use these Units wisely.

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28 minutes ago, Emil Amnell said:

l won't argue with the fact that receiving a 5☆ Unit for free with my idea is indeed WAYYY too much. ln fact, l am opposed to such a thing. That's why l suggested for them to be received at 1☆. That way, whether you want to use them for their Skills or for Merging, you'll still have to invest time and Feathers in them. As you said, no amount could fix a neutral nature but these Units could be used in the meantime until we can summon a real one. Plus, with the ''claim limit'' at 2, you can't abuse this system and you'd have to use these Units wisely.

A claim limit of two has the exact opposite problem. Any whale who spends roughly twice as much as I do would have reached the limit on every character in the game by this point and would now be SoL.

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37 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

A claim limit of two has the exact opposite problem. Any whale who spends roughly twice as much as I do would have reached the limit on every character in the game by this point and would now be SoL.

Hmm. Another fair point. Hmmmm... How about the limit resets once you've used up all the claim limits on every available characters? Not the best idea, but l'm kinda running out of those. l welcome any of them.

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Just now, Emil Amnell said:

Hmm. Another fair point. Hmmmm... How about the limit resets once you've used up all the claim limits on every available characters? Not the best idea, but l'm kinda running out of those. l welcome any of them.

That's what cooldowns are for. A delay of one week between claims of the same character would slow players down enough, but I think the bigger problem is still the number of free summons that paying players would be able to get. FGO at the very least makes their feature have a high enough barrier and a small enough reward that it's more of a "consolation prize" rather than an actual advantage for paying, but at the cost of the feature being almost never utilized.

Forcing a player to claim two of every character before they can repeat again is also a jerk move, especially because the character count is continually increasing.

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56 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

That's what cooldowns are for. A delay of one week between claims of the same character would slow players down enough, but I think the bigger problem is still the number of free summons that paying players would be able to get. FGO at the very least makes their feature have a high enough barrier and a small enough reward that it's more of a "consolation prize" rather than an actual advantage for paying, but at the cost of the feature being almost never utilized.

Forcing a player to claim two of every character before they can repeat again is also a jerk move, especially because the character count is continually increasing.

l see. That does make sense. Though l think the cooldown should be a bit longer, the idea begins to look doable.

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If I were to do something like this the It would be a once per month if you spend X dollars or more you can pick 1 focus hero from banners that month. The idea would be to try and get non-whales to regularly make purchases as well. For whales this doesn't do a whole lot, but I doubt it would discourage folks from dropping a lot cash. Think of it as paying a monthly subscription fee to get 1 free hero per month from that month's focuses(Neutral or allowing IV's to spawn like normal, I can see arguments for either or). Many games have a 15 dollar subscription, so maybe make that the value. Or the 75 pack option since my luck has been that that will usually net a five star when combined with the free orbs. Though 40$ a month may be a hard sell for more casual players. Other methods seem like it would be tough to balance. A subscription type thing would serve as a reward for the whales, though a minor one, but if set right price wise may convince more casual players to dump some money in.

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absolutely utterly NO

 

bad, bad idea

 

game shouldn't reward spending: game should reward playing. Spending should come naturally as a part of playing, otherwise the entire focus of the game shifts from "you're spending for enjoyment" to "your enjoyment comes from spending"

and honestly, f that. As someone already said, if there were to be such a reward, and imho there shouldn't be, it should come from in-game currency spent, and not real world currency. And even that, it's a bad idea, you shouldn't be obtaining more units because you're spending more, hoarding should be balanced as a completely viable strategy for the game since even many whales or Dolphins do their spending on specific banners and if they want to hoard as much for those specific banners they shouldn't feel they are losing "units" in the process. Hekc, they already are losing units by not pulling in some banners, why make it worse? 

Instead of this, there should be a viable, low-entry monetization policy like KHUX has, for example (Although I'd prefer it to be a once in a month thing) to let people get a little of everything: SP, Hero Merit, Sacred Coins, Orbs, Crystal, shards, exp etc: a "support the game" monthly fee that rewards the player with resources outside of the gatcha and gives him a little oomph during the month, so that even people who can't whale can still pay for the game.

 

TLDR; No no no no no

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Usana said:

If I were to do something like this the It would be a once per month if you spend X dollars or more you can pick 1 focus hero from banners that month. The idea would be to try and get non-whales to regularly make purchases as well. For whales this doesn't do a whole lot, but I doubt it would discourage folks from dropping a lot cash. Think of it as paying a monthly subscription fee to get 1 free hero per month from that month's focuses(Neutral or allowing IV's to spawn like normal, I can see arguments for either or). Many games have a 15 dollar subscription, so maybe make that the value. Or the 75 pack option since my luck has been that that will usually net a five star when combined with the free orbs. Though 40$ a month may be a hard sell for more casual players. Other methods seem like it would be tough to balance. A subscription type thing would serve as a reward for the whales, though a minor one, but if set right price wise may convince more casual players to dump some money in.

I like this idea. If I am whaling to merge a limited unit to +10, I am always willing to settle for a neutral nature. I was pretty lucky with NS!Corrin where I got [+Atk, -Res] before I got ten of her. I was not so lucky with BB!Cordelia though. I think I only summoned ones with decent natures way after my tenth one.

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