Just finished Conquest Lunatic

[Spectraman]

Wow...That's all I can say...Wow. This game almost puts Thracia into shame, just a little. This combines so much strategy and planning into the mix which makes it so wonderful. The chapters are well designed and so fun to play. Most of the time it takes a couple of restarts to finally get a good strategy going in each of the chapters, but it's lunatic, what do you expect. And damn, chapters 10, 17, 20, 26 and endgame tore me a new asshole. Jesus Christ these chapters tested the limit of your sanity! And units are so valuable in conquest since the enemy level gains per chapters increase so much that it's impossible to train an unpromoted unit past chapter 19. I have to say that Conquest Lunatic is one of the best Fire Emblem gameplay experiences I had. Definitely the hardest game I have ever played in my life, beats out most of the S ranked runs in other games(by other games I mean non-Fire emblem games). So what did you guys think of fire emblem conquest.

[Spectraman]

Bumppp

[Shoblongoo]

On 8/29/2017 at 9:39 AM, Spectraman said:

 This game almost puts Thracia into shame, just a little.

...you know what...

I'd go so far as to say the map design and strategy beats out Thracia. 

Its a shame the writing was so shit. They put so much talent and attention to detail into the gameplay. If everything else had been executed at that level, Conquest could have been the best game in the series.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Shoblongoo

[The Unlikely Knight]

First off Spectraman, congrats on completing Conquest on Lunatic. I haven't played the game myself, but I've heard how difficult Conquest can get. I can only imagine how it would be on Lunatic!

 

What was the most difficult chapter of the run for you?

[astrophys]

Conquest Lunatic was an interesting challenge overall, although I honestly like the Hard Mode version of the endgame chapters [notably 28 and in extension 27 because they come in a set].   Because it so heavily incentivizes Rescue-skip and Dragon-Fang proc or lose extremely that it kind of saps the fun out of the level.  

 

But I've beaten them all no-grind.  

[DragonFlames]

On 2.9.2017 at 5:13 AM, astrophys said:

Conquest Lunatic was an interesting challenge overall, although I honestly like the Hard Mode version of the endgame chapters [notably 28 and in extension 27 because they come in a set].   Because it so heavily incentivizes Rescue-skip and Dragon-Fang proc or lose extremely that it kind of saps the fun out of the level.  

 

But I've beaten them all no-grind.  

That's mighty impressive. I still struggle with Hard Mode and I don't even want to THINK about what the endgame will be like (I'm one of those players that tries to finish everything with zero deaths. It was hard to pull off even on Normal Mode...)

Congratulations to the OP for beating it on Lunatic as well. I bow down to you in admiration (no sarcasm).

[astrophys]

Yeah; I've beaten BR/CQ/RV all in Lunatic classic/no-grind, and BR/CQ in Hard classic/no-grind [my first no-grind RV was Lunatic].  I've done BR Lunatic no-grind twice, Conquest Lunatic no-grind once, and RV Lunatic no-grind twice. 

Defined as no fighting challenge [random generated] battles, no online-battles, no DLC, no online features or path bonuses.  No skill buying from any source. No logbook characters.  Allowed battles are Chapters, Paralogues unlocked through the course of playing the game, and Invasions.   Stuff I find in my own file's MyCastle [Cooking, mines/food, random things given from speaking to my characters there in between battles] is fair game.   Deliberately waiting for multiple instances of stuff at MyCastle to farm them is not okay, but naturally saving the game because I need to go to bed or take a break of playing and coming back later is okay [mention that because some things naturally respawn in with time passed] - so times taken from natural breaks is okay in my book, but deliberately holding off repeatedly from the sole purpose to farm up extra copies beyond those from natural breaks is not.  

 

Those are the conditions I used. 

[Spectraman]

On 8/31/2017 at 4:05 PM, Shoblongoo said:

...you know what...

I'd go so far as to say the map design and strategy beats out Thracia. 

Its a shame the writing was so shit. They put so much talent and attention to detail into the gameplay. If everything else had been executed at that level, Conquest could have been the best game in the series.

actually, I never played Thracia. I only said that because I mostly heard people say Thracia is slightly harder most of the time so I thought people would go into a Thracia vs Conquest arguement.

[Spectraman]

On 9/1/2017 at 9:34 PM, The Unlikely Knight said:

First off Spectraman, congrats on completing Conquest on Lunatic. I haven't played the game myself, but I've heard how difficult Conquest can get. I can only imagine how it would be on Lunatic!

 

What was the most difficult chapter of the run for you?

That is a tough one. In all honesty, Chapter 17 was a chapter that was hard for me when I played Conquest on Normal and Hard too. The chapter immedialty introduces to you the most dnagerous enemy in conquest, Master Ninjas. Except in Lunatic, they have not only Poison Strike but Grizzly wound which takes 40% of your health. 

Edited September 10, 2017 by Spectraman

[Spectraman]

I will say this though, I always try to use everything at my disposal for a hard difficuly mode in a Fire emblem game, well except DLC. So I definelty used support grinding just so I can get the children earlier. A tactic I find effective but most people might not have access to Internet. Well now I am moving on to Awakening Lunatic, yah, I haven't beaten Awakening on the hardest difficulty yet so that is going to be fun. Btw I am posting a thread on the Awakening site because I need some strategies for the game, so if anyone has tips then I am all ears.

[The Unlikely Knight]

On 9/9/2017 at 9:23 PM, Spectraman said:

That is a tough one. In all honesty, Chapter 17 was a chapter that was hard for me when I played Conquest on Normal and Hard too. The chapter immedialty introduces to you the most dnagerous enemy in conquest, Master Ninjas. Except in Lunatic, they have not only Poison Strike but Grizzly wound which takes 40% of your health. 

40%? Yikes, sounds like Master Ninja are tough cookies. Guess I'll have to prepare for that chapter!

Good luck on running Awakening on Lunatic!

[astrophys]

17 hours ago, The Unlikely Knight said:

40%? Yikes, sounds like Master Ninja are tough cookies. Guess I'll have to prepare for that chapter!

Good luck on running Awakening on Lunatic!

Solutions are to kill them in one-round to avoid triggering those skills, or to have such ludicrously high defense that even after stat debuffs their Shurkiens do no damage [poison damage cannot kill you, so as long as actual attacks deal 0 damage you're fine even at 1 HP].  

 

Chapter 25 and Chapter 28 Master Ninjas are even trickier, as they gain the Lunatic-only skill inevitable End, which allows stat-debuffs to STACK ADDITITIVELY, instead of just using "largest debuff value". 

[Sweet_Basil]

Lunatic made me hate Lunge on the enemies, and those big ugly stone things.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Sweet_Basil

[DragonFlames]

14 hours ago, Sweet_Basil said:

Lunatic made me hate Lunge on the enemies, and those big ugly stone things.

Conquest itself was enough to make me hate it no matter the difficulty. It's next to useless when you have it and busted when the enemy does. It's the same with any Seal skill, Poison Strike, Grisly Wound and arguably both Counters. Hell, the Ninja class itself is a prime example of this. They feed off of their high speed, high avoid, the aforementioned Poison Strike and Shuriken debuffs. Poison Strike, as said before, only becomes a threat if it hits multiple times and perhaps the biggest kicker is that high avoid means nothing if you're trying to take advantage of it, since the RNG always works against you when it comes to dodging stuff.
Ninjas are only a threat if you face a large group of them along with other heavy hitters that can finish the job, a combination that is inaccessible to you, because you, at most, get four Ninjas without Heart Sealing and that's only on Birthright, where enemies usually die in one round of combat anyway, and Revelation, which is Royal Emblem, which means few deploy slots. 

It's sadly an inherent flaw some RPGs suffer from, that there are skills that only show their full potential if the enemy is using them and they are a waste of space if you try them out for yourself.

To name a few examples:
- Status inflictions such as Poison or Confuse in most Final Fantasy titles, since they do nothing against most bosses
- Any Accuracy affecting move in Pokémon, since the AI will always hit you no matter what you do
- Any instant death ablilities in any RPG ever. None of these will work on any enemy you'd actually want to use them on (Yojinbo's Zanmato from FFX notwithstanding)

This makes me hesitate to call Conquest's difficulty 'fair'. It doesn't mean that the game isn't enjoyable, by any means, but to call it totally 'fair' is a big stretch in my opinion.

Something that absolutely kills any 'fairness' in the difficulty for me is the absolutely glaring fact that the enemies in Conquest have skills and skill combinations you cannot possibly have access to. This is something that has bugged me in many games I've played. I HATE it when an AI controlled opponent has something the player cannot have.
It's hard to put into words, but I hope you'll bear with me on this one.
I think it is best to name a few examples in order to get my point across:
- Staff Savant and enemy only skills in general
- Enemy only weapons
- A Sorceror that can suddenly use staves for no reason.
- Anyone that isn't Corrin or his / her children having Draconic Hex (although it makes sense on Conquest's final boss from a story standpoint, given who they're controlled by)
- Point Blank, which is only accessible via DLC, which some people may not have
- Master Ninjas or other classes suddenly packing Grisly Wound or other Kitsune / Wolfskin only skills, despite them CLEARLY not being one themselves
- Why the hell does a Hoshidan character suddenly have a skill that comes from a Nohrian class or the other way around? (although you can do the same by marrying / A+ supporting people from the different kingdoms, so this one can be justified to some extend. It just doesn't make sense story-wise)

Yes, I am aware that past Fire Emblem games did this, too. That doesn't make it any less unfair, though.
Don't get me wrong, I like difficulty in games, I also enjoyed my Hard Mode playthroughs of both Birthright and Conquest, but the stuff I mentioned above are things that prevent me from confidently saying that the game is in its entirety fair.
And yes, I also know that you can work around that stuff, but I still cannot call it 'fair difficulty' by any stretch of the imagination.
 

Wow, did a simple statement about a skill really escalate into a rant about fairness in video games? Holy crap, I need to stop overthinking stuff...
 

[joshcja]

Lunge is really good for the player o.o

Also there are a lot of rpg's where status and instant death are not only useful but extremely good (ex: etrian odyssey, FF1, any game with aoe sleep ever, freeze and enfeeble in this game).

The good player poison strike is named savage blow and it's extremely strong.

Scarlet made a lot of babies before ch13 happened.

Everyone has point blank with no-dlc. Mini bow and shining bow are both strong.

You're presented with positioning based puzzles using the same tools availible to the player that reward long term strategic planning in a srpg. Oh no.

Edited September 13, 2017 by joshcja

[DragonFlames]

16 hours ago, joshcja said:

Lunge is really good for the player o.o I never found much use for it outside of the EXP DLC exit blocking shenanigans, honestly, but I'll give it another shot.

Also there are a lot of rpg's where status and instant death are not only useful but extremely good (ex: etrian odyssey, FF1, any game with aoe sleep ever, freeze and enfeeble in this game). True, EO is one game where status moves are useful (and mandatory) against bosses, especially any type of Bind. I guess I just forgot :P And of course, Freeze and Enfeeble, two of the most useful Staves in Fire Emblem history... How the heck could I forget about those?

The good player poison strike is named savage blow and it's extremely strong. True.

Scarlet made a lot of babies before ch13 happened. XD

Everyone has point blank with no-dlc. Mini bow and shining bow are both strong. Also true. Although the Shining Bow is really only useful on people like Niles, Nina, Anna or Sakura. Setsuna, Takumi or Mozu can't make much use of it because of their low Magic.

You're presented with positioning based puzzles using the same tools availible to the player that reward long term strategic planning in a srpg. Oh no. I never complained about the positioning based puzzles. My main complaint was about tools the enemy can use that the player can't (Staff Savant, Winged Shield, Bold Stance, Inevitable End and the like). Despite that, I do enjoy that you have to work around that sort of stuff, too, and it is satisfying to do so, of course. I just wish there was some way other than hacking that you could get your hands on those same tools as well to balance it out. I guess my definition of 'fairness' is stricter than most.

I honestly have no idea why I went on the above tangent (see my previous post) as well.

[joshcja]

Lunge a hellmurder unit (Talisman Xander, Ophelia, Silias, etc) through walls (or the ch12 pots)or just gain 2 free boots for a turn. It's really sick. Bounus points for lunging to break a lunge chain or to innitiate a lunge chain early for even more free move. Enemy lunge is really useful for the same reasons.

The player has staff savant, winged shield, inevitable end, and point blank. They're just called convoy, seal (mid chapter), damage stack, and swap weapon. The player just gets to cheat and not burn skill slots on what is to them a worthless effect. The player also has these from ch1. The CQ ai is "smart" but these are complex actions and ai is still ai. As for end vs stack... end is a more polite option when the player is constantly outnumbered.

Bold stance is rude and stupid but, it's also a final boss only awakening throwback on a unit with impossible stats, an impossible weapon,  a selfie pairup using the same weapon without replicate, and dragonskin. All things considered stance is the least offensive thing here.

Edited September 14, 2017 by joshcja

[starburst]

On 4/9/2017 at 4:45 PM, astrophys said:

Defined as no fighting challenge [random generated] battles, no online-battles, no DLC, no online features or path bonuses.  No skill buying from any source. No logbook characters.  Allowed battles are Chapters, Paralogues unlocked through the course of playing the game, and Invasions. Stuff I find in my own file's MyCastle [Cooking, mines/food, random things given from speaking to my characters there in between battles] is fair game. [...]
Those are the conditions I used.

I have been trying something similar lately, but I am still dealing with Hard Mode (Conquest.)
Perhaps the main difference is that I do visit some DLC chapters early in the game (before Chapter 9) to recruit Anna and to obtain the Vanguard Seal and the Pebble. I do not visit the Experience DLC chapter, and have yet to decide whether or not to pay one visit to the Weapons DLC.

What I do get from those early visits to DLC chapters is Support Points, which, in turn, allow me to recruit Ophelia (Felicia) and Sophie (Mozu) before Chapter 10. And because Children Chapters do provide experience points, this may be considered a 'grinding' run.

Then again, I really like Anna and Vanguard Corrin, and those two children are the only ones that I recruit (no other S support is unlocked.)
There is where I draw the line.

[Shadow Mir]

On 9/11/2017 at 8:18 PM, The Unlikely Knight said:

40%? Yikes, sounds like Master Ninja are tough cookies. Guess I'll have to prepare for that chapter!

Good luck on running Awakening on Lunatic!

That's only on their turn, since Poison Strike requires initiating combat for it to work. But it still is something to beware of nonetheless.

 

23 hours ago, joshcja said:

The good player poison strike is named savage blow and it's extremely strong.

I never saw Savage Blow as worth it, since Malig Knight's hardly a fantastic class. It doesn't help that the one unit who's most likely to get it is better off reclassed immediately - hell, in my current Conquest run, I heart sealed Camilla to Wyvern Lord immediately, and didn't feel like I was missing out on much of anything - nor does it that practically anyone with Wyvern Rider access has lopsided stat distribution that prevents Malig Knight from being viable.

[joshcja]

So ignoring the bit where magik knight is availible to (almost) the entire cast, is availible to the entire magic using cast, and is one of the better classes in the game (when used by the correct units) because bolt axe.

Dipping MK gives str+2/lunge/Sblow/trample.

Value.

Edited September 15, 2017 by joshcja

[DragonFlames]

18 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I never saw Savage Blow as worth it, since Malig Knight's hardly a fantastic class. It doesn't help that the one unit who's most likely to get it is better off reclassed immediately - hell, in my current Conquest run, I heart sealed Camilla to Wyvern Lord immediately, and didn't feel like I was missing out on much of anything - nor does it that practically anyone with Wyvern Rider access has lopsided stat distribution that prevents Malig Knight from being viable.

The only time I really made use of Savage Blow was when I paired Keaton up with Camilla and Velouria happened to inherit it. It was interesting to throw my Little Red Riding Wolf tank into an approaching army and watch them all get Savage Blown. It only works on Player Phase, though and if you don't manage to mop up the enemy with your other units, you're royally screwed.

2 hours ago, joshcja said:

So ignoring the bit where magik knight is availible to (almost) the entire cast, is availible to the entire magic using cast, and is one of the better classes in the game (when used by the correct units) because bolt axe.

Dipping MK gives str+2/lunge/Sblow/trample.

Value.

That is however ignoring the teeny tiny little fact that Bolt Axe is C-rank and weapon levels are a b**** to increase in Fates. You have to kill a crapton of enemies to increase your weapon level by a single point and Arm's Scrolls aren't that readily available, either, which is sad. Getting Elise for instance to C-rank in Axes is hell itself.
I will, however, agree that the Bolt Axe is a pretty good weapon when you can finally make use of it, though. Camilla, for instance, can use it from the get go and tear through physical walls like it's nobody's business.
The low hit rate might be a turn-off, though, especially on Camilla, who strangely suffers from low Skill despite her growth rate.

[joshcja]

Heartseeker solves all acc issues + arms scrolls can be used on any unit and DM line also gives mal aura + bowbreaker + buffs mag growth. You get free scrolls in the chapters that unlock shop upgrades ffs.

Wyvern!Elise can hit C axes by ch10 comfortably. She does want robe+books but the payoff is really nuts. High power bolt axe on a bulky bird unit with Lily's Poise/demosel/heartseeker/mal aura/Sblow/Elise's nutso personal support adds means everything within 2 tiles of the dude she just one shot is dead and your dudes cannot die. It's some Tabitha-on-a-war-tank sillyness.

Magik!Felecia, Dwyer ,and Corrin also build C axes quickly though and are less reliant on dusts than Camilia (who is still a respectable option). All of these can also pull off slightly weaker aura support builds. Self damage stack reqs are pretty light here due to the raw power of forged lightning+14 freaking mt bolt axe.

Limited arms scrolls would be an issue if the weapons you wanted to scroll for (braves and bolt axe) were not horribly limited.

Resource use is not an automatic drawback in LCQ because every single unit or build requires significant resources. This includes "free" units like Xander (2-3 seals, every talisman), cheap player phase focused units (seals for damage stack + light forges), and staffbots (freeze/enfeeble/entrap ain't free yo). Aurastack bolt axe abuser is relatively cheap, has a huge incomperable impact, and uses resources with light competition.

Edited September 15, 2017 by joshcja

[Shadow Mir]

4 hours ago, joshcja said:

So ignoring the bit where magik knight is availible to (almost) the entire cast, is availible to the entire magic using cast, and is one of the better classes in the game (when used by the correct units) because bolt axe.

Dipping MK gives str+2/lunge/Sblow/trample.

Value.

Except for the part where some characters (namely, Elise and Xander) have no ranks in the relevant weapon types, and the former in particular is likely not going to be doing jack until C rank unless she's promoted first. And even if she does get to C rank axes, the Bolt Axe isn't very accurate, and Elise tends to have rather low Skill anyway. Whoopedy-freaking-do. Also, Trample comes much too late to be relevant for long for anyone who isn't named Felicia or Jakob, and Savage Blow is just another skill that's much more useful for the enemy than it is the player (unless they like taking foolish risks, that is, which I don't). And lets's not forget that seals are limited in supply for most of the game either. . . And again, I'd have trouble thinking Savage Blow would be worth it on Camilla, who's most likely to get it, because she needs Veteran Intuition as her luck is just that bad.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[joshcja]

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Except for the part where some characters (namely, Elise and Xander) have no ranks in the relevant weapon types, and the former in particular is likely not going to be doing jack until C rank unless she's promoted first. And even if she does get to C rank axes, the Bolt Axe isn't very accurate, and Elise tends to have rather low Skill anyway. Whoopedy-freaking-do. Also, Trample comes much too late to be relevant for long for anyone who isn't named Felicia or Jakob, and Savage Blow is just another skill that's much more useful for the enemy than it is the player (unless they like taking foolish risks, that is, which I don't). And lets's not forget that seals are limited in supply for most of the game either. . . And again, I'd have trouble thinking Savage Blow would be worth it on Camilla, who's most likely to get it, because she needs Veteran Intuition as her luck is just that bad.

None of this makes any sense to me.

Can I get a translator?

Or did levant just forget how game mechanics actually work... again?

Edit: Did I see the words veterans intuition Camilia? Send help.

Edited September 15, 2017 by joshcja

[Raptok]

On 10/09/2017 at 3:28 AM, Spectraman said:

I will say this though, I always try to use everything at my disposal for a hard difficuly mode in a Fire emblem game, well except DLC. So I definelty used support grinding just so I can get the children earlier. A tactic I find effective but most people might not have access to Internet. Well now I am moving on to Awakening Lunatic, yah, I haven't beaten Awakening on the hardest difficulty yet so that is going to be fun. Btw I am posting a thread on the Awakening site because I need some strategies for the game, so if anyone has tips then I am all ears.

The hardest difficulty is Lunatic+ which is unlocked after completing lunatic. The strategy for beating it is either a combination of using a defensive boon Robin and abusing pair up or using Frederick and then grinding. Don't be afraid to unequip weapons so that your units don't kill enemies so that you can tank enemy phases at choke points. Also the first level abuse the fact that Chrom and Robin can move on the water to kill the units and grind for XP (since they can't move on the water).

After you learn to beat the first few levels consistently on Lunatic+ you'll find you can go back to Lunatic and have a surprisingly easy time, and it is immensely satisfying every time you complete a chapter.