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How would you fix Barons?  

27 members have voted

  1. 1. What would you do to make Barons on equal standing with the other classes

    • Same mov as DreadFighters, if bows can have 1 range, why not normal mov armor?
      2
    • A skill that gives them +5 attack+defense to themselves and +5 defense+Res adjacent allies
      2
    • Give them old school pavise that activates at 18%
      0
    • Give them magic like in FE4/FE5
      2
    • Echoes Pavise is their skill, halve all physical damage
      6
    • Halve Swords and/or Lance damage
      4
    • Two or more of the above choices
      8
    • Something else
      3


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Halve all physical damage would probably be the most impactful. A movement boost would be the most practical however.

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Movement and the buffs would work. As of now, Barons suffer from their atrocious movement and their relative uselessness in combat considering they're too slow to double but too weak to reliably OHKO anyone. The movement is an overall nice buff and their self/ally-buffs further amplify their niche (while making killing easier) while allowing them to be support.

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Come to think of it, I should've done options like "1 and 2" "1 and 3", and such. I was going to do it, but I thought it'd make the poll too long.

Editing a poll removes results, right?

Edited by Emperor Hardin

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There would have to be some pretty big changes to make Barons useful, but I would first reduce the number of Witches. With their high defense, Barons can help to defend the flanks of your army. The issue is that Witches target units on the perimeter of your army, so any Barons that are placed there will be attacked. Because Barons have very little speed, Witches can double them and pose a real threat, thus largely negating Barons' defensive usefulness.

 

I would also increase their speed. Having such low speed severely hurts their defensive capabilities for the reason stated above and renders them offensively unviable.

Edited by CriticalMiss

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I disagree, barons and knights, while being weak compared to other classes, aren't bad. I can't tell you how many times in Hard I needed a wall to kill something and Luka or Valbo tanked. While they don't always hit hard, they still don't suck. Hinderance is Clair, not Luka. 

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9 hours ago, CriticalMiss said:

There would have to be some pretty big changes to make Barons useful, but I would first reduce the number of Witches. With their high defense, Barons can help to defend the flanks of your army. The issue is that Witches target units on the perimeter of your army, so any Barons that are placed there will be attacked. Because Barons have very little speed, Witches can double them and pose a real threat, thus largely negating Barons' defensive usefulness.

 

I would also increase their speed. Having such low speed severely hurts their defensive capabilities for the reason stated above and renders them offensively unviable.

Some sort of defense against magic would be needed, alternatively their physical defense has to be entirely worth it for the magic weakness to exist.

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I'd say we nerf Dread Fighter move, why do they need 7 anyhow? 6 should be enough. Toss Barons, Sages, and Priestesses, but not Saints, because for some reason they already get 5 Mov, an extra point too. Do Gold Knights need 9 by the way? Pulling them down to 8 and Falcon Knights to 7 wouldn't be the end of things.

If we gave Barons high Def and Res (or Spd), they'd be too difficult to crack on the player side of things. If we just gave them more Def, it wouldn't really do too much, since they already have very solid physical durability, and Shields can make them invincible here.

I'd say on top of +1 Mov, we buff Baron Atk even more. Warriors/Berserkers don't exist in SoV, and Archers have range, Dread Fighters Spd, and GKs mobility, so none of them would work quite so well balance-wise with ginormous Atk.

A more complicated answer would be to give Barons a Combat Art like Berwick Saga's Provoke (forces all enemies within a certain radius to attack this unit if possible) or its Guard (all attacks directed at the selected ally, if adjacent to the Guard user, will be redirected to the Guard user (BS also adds a non-Shield Def and Avoid halving while Guarding- but we could do without this)).

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The issue with barons is less range, move, res, or even speed as there are workarounds to all of that and more "lol saint/preistess with a shield" .

Edited by joshcja

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4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'd say we nerf Dread Fighter move, why do they need 7 anyhow? 6 should be enough. Toss Barons, Sages, and Priestesses, but not Saints, because for some reason they already get 5 Mov, an extra point too. Do Gold Knights need 9 by the way? Pulling them down to 8 and Falcon Knights to 7 wouldn't be the end of things.

If we gave Barons high Def and Res (or Spd), they'd be too difficult to crack on the player side of things. If we just gave them more Def, it wouldn't really do too much, since they already have very solid physical durability, and Shields can make them invincible here.

I'd say on top of +1 Mov, we buff Baron Atk even more. Warriors/Berserkers don't exist in SoV, and Archers have range, Dread Fighters Spd, and GKs mobility, so none of them would work quite so well balance-wise with ginormous Atk.

A more complicated answer would be to give Barons a Combat Art like Berwick Saga's Provoke (forces all enemies within a certain radius to attack this unit if possible) or its Guard (all attacks directed at the selected ally, if adjacent to the Guard user, will be redirected to the Guard user (BS also adds a non-Shield Def and Avoid halving while Guarding- but we could do without this)).

Well players do have a lot of magic users and in Echoes, access to anti armor skills/weapons. Besides even with max attack characters, you rarely finish off enemy barons with physical force.

I was thinking of that too. Like +5 attack and +5 defense as a passive, or alternatively just +10 attack. There's also a skill that does -5 physical damage to the user, something like that could be a good class skill for Barons.

A similar suggestion could be to give Armored Knights/Barons a skill that similar to a weaker version of solar blow, a single powerful attack that would reduce the need for double attacking and make them the Fighters of the game, the infantry attack class.

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Give them +1 movement. Also give Soldier/Knights/Barons a passive that gives them STR equal to twice an equipped shield's weight (capped at +10 STR boost). Gives them some unique flexibility in terms of equipment/skills.

Another idea is a passive that allows them to act after using non-combat skills like Swap or Shove. Imagine being able to attack after using 'Swap'. That's some good utility.

Edited by DLuna

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I'd close the movement gap in general in this game. 4-9 is far too big a spread, the GBA/3DS games used 5-8 for their promoted classes and I don't think I ever thought "man I wish generals had less move (or paladins had more), that would be good balance". Did anyone?

At minimum, while I understand Knight not getting move over Soldier (as they gain notably more armour/defence), I feel Baron should have gained a point of move over Knight.

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The class growths of the Armored class line in Echoes are very bad, I mean -10% speed and only +5% defense growth. If the class is going to be that bad movement wise, they need good growths and skills!

Also compare the armor.

Kliff_Myrmidon.png.4bf98b20aa3e372daee77479ec09a2f2.png

Myrmidon

Kliff_Sniper.png.cc7f047b80302d0bf51f56bb4f9e4ad6.png

Sniper

Kliff_Knight.png.d635bee62d7ea39d62952c25887e790e.png

Armored Knight.

Yet somehow despite being only slightly more armored, only the Knight gets no move and the movement penalties.

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A rider promotion with 7/8 mov would redeem them well enough, a Great Knight class of sorts. Let them still deal with speed issues for good measure.

Class growth modifiers honestly wouldn't make that much of an impact. 10% here, 5% there - you will not see any change. 

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The main issue I run into in Echoes with Barons is their below average movement, if they at least had a movement of 5 or 6 but preferably 7 I would be able to get them where I need them in a timely fashion. It's because of this same hindrance that I always promote knights to Great Knights when I have the choice because I now can finally get my knights where I need them and in a timely fashion. 

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