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Awakening/Fates hate?

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22 minutes ago, Koumal8 said:

But you'll agree with me that that was the intention.

I'll agree with you in the case of Fates but in the case of Awakening, it was more of just combining two mechanics from previous games (marriage from FE4 and the Avatar from FE12). Fates brought it back only because it was so well received in Awakening.

25 minutes ago, Koumal8 said:

I'm 100% sure there are no side objectives in any of the maps I brought as an example in my previous posts.

In the maps you mentioned, no. But does Awakening have side objectives? Yes. Not all of the maps are open fields with nothing but enemies.

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Just now, Armagon said:

In the maps you mentioned, no. But does Awakening have side objectives? Yes. Not all of the maps are open fields with nothing but enemies.

Too many of them are. Definitely too many. You're actually getting me interested in counting them, I'll probably go do that one of these days (can't really be bothered right now, I'm busy playing... FE4 actually XD with the RR patch, it's plenty fun).

2 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I'll agree with you in the case of Fates but in the case of Awakening, it was more of just combining two mechanics from previous games (marriage from FE4 and the Avatar from FE12). Fates brought it back only because it was so well received in Awakening.

On the contrary, I firmly believe those dating sim elements were what the IS team was counting on to make Awakening sell. And it seems like it worked. I highly doubt they were "experimenting" with the avatar+support system mechanics, they saw a way to put dating sim elements in the game and they jumped right ahead. Or maybe you know this too, I admittedly kinda don't get what you mean with that "in the case of Awakening, it was more of just combining two mechanics from previous games", I don't get what you're implying, if you're implying anything at all.

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22 hours ago, Koumal8 said:

@Armagon Your FE4 hate is so cute, I can always count on it to come through :)

FE4 is my least favorite game in the series.  You wanna take me up on that?

---

Awakening is a massive tone shift from the previous games.  IMO the root of this came from FE12, with the fairly one-note character conversations, the avatar, and the general story butchering (why is Marth in this game again?).  Yet FE12 is a game I like, because of the gameplay.

Fates has its own share of issues, from the removed features to random renaming (what's a Subaki and why couldn't he keep his original name?) to a story that was too busy patting the main character on the back to marrying literal kids to. . .yeah.  There's also the massive amount of gameplay improvements.

My guess is that it's easy to pick a quality from the 3DS games, and harp on it.  The same could be said of every game in the franchise.  However, the 3DS games are the most well-known, hence the hate.

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1 minute ago, eclipse said:

FE4 is my least favorite game in the series.  You wanna take me up on that?

School starts tomorrow, but as soon as I find some more free afternoons... I shall be ready when you are (the only thing I don't know if I can defend is funnily enough its plot: I love it but I never stopped to really examine it and much of the interesting stuff that makes gen 1 interesting happens off-screen; also I still want to know what the hell Byron was doing for the entirety of gen1!)

5 minutes ago, eclipse said:

removed features

Wait, what removed features? Weapon durability?

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1 minute ago, Koumal8 said:

School starts tomorrow, but as soon as I find some more free afternoons... I shall be ready when you are (the only thing I don't know if I can defend is funnily enough its plot: I love it but I never stopped to really examine it and much of the interesting stuff that makes gen 1 interesting happens off-screen; also I still want to know what the hell Byron was doing for the entirety of gen1!)

Wait, what removed features? Weapon durability?

I usually don't discuss what I hate in-depth, because I really have better things to do with my time.  Like focus on the things I like.

Skinship was removed from the NA version.  Supports were shuffled/changed, to the point where Soliel winds up as besties with a lot of the guys.  I think some of the cosmetic items were removed, as well.  Out of all of these, I like Soliel's changed S supports, because she seems like the type of girl that isn't ready for such a commitment yet.

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2 hours ago, Koumal8 said:

I admittedly kinda don't get what you mean with that "in the case of Awakening, it was more of just combining two mechanics from previous games", I don't get what you're implying, if you're implying anything at all.

I was referring to how Awakening was meant to be the last game in the series and how Intelligent Systems took the gameplay mechanics from previous games and put them in Awakening. Obviously they wanted the game to sell but they were prepared for the worst case scenario, which is why Awakening was a sort-of celebration of the series, featuring mechanics from previous games and, of course, the legacy characters. This kinda extends into the plot too. The Valm arc exists as a callback to Valentia.

2 hours ago, eclipse said:

(what's a Subaki and why couldn't he keep his original name?)

I lie in bed every night asking myself the same question. Like, i don't mind name changes, but this isn't a name change. All they did was take "Tsubaki" and remove the T. Granted, the T is silent and that's probably why they removed but still, c'mon. If you're gonna change a name, at least try.

It's different with "Leon" and "Leo" because while one letter was removed as well, Leon and Leo are actually different names.

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1 hour ago, Armagon said:

This kinda extends into the plot too. The Valm arc exists as a callback to Valentia.

The thing is stuff like that worked against them, they got so much wrong with Valm, it would've made more sense if it wasn't Valentia at all.

Same thing with the Taguel, if they wanted something from Tellius, they should've added Soldier rather then a plothole making facsimile of Beast Laguz.

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1 hour ago, Armagon said:

It's different with "Leon" and "Leo" because while one letter was removed as well, Leon and Leo are actually different names.

Yeah, but this only happened because there's already a Leo(Leonardo) AND Leo in Fire Emblem. Same reason Effie became Faye, because the Fates translators decided to randomly change names, creating a problem due to a lack of foresight.

EDIT: Oh right, Leo from Fates was supposed to be Leon. Really, the Fates translators just fucked up all kinds of shit for the SoV translators.

Edited by Slumber

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It's fashionable among some people in a fandom to bash the current big thing. While there are many justified gripes with Awakening and Fates there are always a select few who hate them out of spite because they're popular. Then you have the tiny but very vocal minority who feel threatened by the huge wave of new fans because their niche fan base no longer feels like an exclusive club house.

I'm in the Doctor Who fandom, which is VERY familiar to this one. You have the old school fans who grew up with the classic era, the new fans who first got into the series because of the Tenth Doctor, the classic elitists, the new fans who complain about elitists, etc. When you have a series that has gone on for so long (whether it's a TV show or video game) it's inevitable that the fan base will clash and get extremely divided.

Honestly I have yet to meet anyone who only liked the series for the avatar system or "waifus." The only time I ever hear the term "Waifu Emblem" being used in a serious manner is when Awakening/Fates detractors (I dislike using the term hater) bring it up. It's a cheap, easy stock argument some of the extremely vocal hard core veterans fall back on. They invent an imaginary scapegoat. It seems Echoes gets less hate because some of those dissatisfied with Awakening/Fates see it as a return to form despite the game being just as guilty of committing the same crimes (bland maps, one note characters, and yes there is still blatant fan service. Also Kozaki doesn't do the armor designs.)

 

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32 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Yeah, but this only happened because there's already a Leo(Leonardo) AND Leo in Fire Emblem. Same reason Effie became Faye, because the Fates translators decided to randomly change names, creating a problem due to a lack of foresight.

EDIT: Oh right, Leo from Fates was supposed to be Leon. Really, the Fates translators just fucked up all kinds of shit for the SoV translators.

I'm kinda of surprised SOV didn't do the same thing as Awakening/Fates and make class names more consistent.

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5 hours ago, Koumal8 said:

I still want to know what the hell Byron was doing for the entirety of gen1!)

I have my headcanon that he led the vanguard against Maricle in the Issach Campaign- he has a horse unlike Reptor and Lombard after all (and I doubt they'd want to dirty their hands on the frontline). The Byron and Maricle came to appreciate each other as warriors as they fought, which served as an excuse to blame Kurth's death on him, even though Reptor and Lombard intentionally kept Byron away from Kurth.

After the betrayal, Byron had to go into hiding moving from place to place until he caught wind that Sigurd was in nearby Silesse and he had the chance to escape. Issach should have plenty of hiding places- Seliph survived there for over a decade without being caught, and Byron would've had the advantage of the fact Issach would have been still relatively unfamiliar to and only lightly conquered by Grannvale.

 

1 hour ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Same thing with the Taguel, if they wanted something from Tellius, they should've added Soldier rather then a plothole making facsimile of Beast Laguz.

But Soldiers aren't as exotic as beast shapeshifters or as obviously unique to Tellius. Though I agree that Awakening could have used Halberdiers- it's why Falcoknights got Lancefaire, there wasn't a mono-Lance class to give it to.

 

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

I lie in bed every night asking myself the same question. Like, i don't mind name changes, but this isn't a name change. All they did was take "Tsubaki" and remove the T. Granted, the T is silent and that's probably why they removed but still, c'mon. If you're gonna change a name, at least try.

Without the silent T, Subaki can't be confused with Kamiizumi's cat Tsubaki in Bravely Second- who I think is more of a threat than Subaki ever could be.

I'm glad they came up with the name Valla though. In Japan it's called Touma, which would be a little funny in English given my fav TMS character is Touma. Suddenly the Valla Curse got a whole lot better, or worse since I'd hate not being able to speak of my beloved Touma.

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On 9/15/2017 at 10:03 PM, Slumber said:

I do agree that it's still far from perfect in Fates, which is why I think the system is out of place as a whole. BUT, I vastly prefer how Fates does it vs. Awakening. Whereas it's completely lopsided in Awakening, it's only kind of lopsided in Fates. You can get away with using OS on your phase, but it is generally better for DS. And the game using DS to make bosses harder gets a bit tiresome

While I agree with bosses being tiresome with pair up I will say that I personally feel like fates did really good with pair up (conquest atleast). The seperation of OS and DS made it so pairing up wasn't the go to strategy for every scenario. In awakening there was no downside to pairing up, while in fates conquest my first time doing chapter 10 I paired a lot of my units and got swarmed. I respect your opinion and am not trying to say your wrong but I think if done right I wouldn't mind seeing it in future titles.(maybe give some bosses a skill where they ignore stances and their bonuses so they were less abusable)

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4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

But Soldiers aren't as exotic as beast shapeshifters or as obviously unique to Tellius. Though I agree that Awakening could have used Halberdiers- it's why Falcoknights got Lancefaire, there wasn't a mono-Lance class to give it to.

There was definitely a gigantic void with no non categorized lance user or infantry lance class. 

Soldier is a very popular class too, so leaving it out was a huge mistake.

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I am a big fan of Fates and Awakening.  A lot of the things I like are the same things that people hate.  :lol: 

Seems the fanbase is pretty split on this topic.  It doesn't really upset me when people hate on these games as long as they aren't dicks about it.  We like what we like...

My reasons for liking Fates and Awakening more than the other games:
-The large amount of supports.  I didn't feel like the quality was any worse than the older games.  
-The cast really stood out to me compared to the older games.  I didn't find them too "gimmicky".
-The marriage and kids.  I had a lot of fun planning out all of the marriages.  (Although, I must admit it feels like the kids were thrown into Fates without a good reason, haha.)  
-Story was easy to follow.  Cheesy at times, yes, but I personally don't play FE for the quality of the story.
-Pair-Up.
-The skills system.
-The art style and pretty cut-scenes.
-Replayability.
-The quality of the voice acting (English).  I would have preferred the games to be fully voiced like Echoes, but ah well, the parts that were voiced were good.
-Elimination of weapon durability (Fates only).
-MyCastle (or whatever it's called) added some extra entertainment for me (Fates only).
-Conquest's maps.  So much fun!  (Fates only).

(I have completed Fire Emblem 7, 8, 9, 10, 13, 14, and 15.)

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On 9/16/2017 at 3:11 AM, Lau said:

Honestly? It just feels like bandwagonning nowadays, the latest trend if you must.

Personally, I love Awakening. It was my first FE game, and it has provided me with hiurs of fun. Is the gameplay broken? Oh god yes. You can solo the game with Robin if you grind a lot. Is the Valm arc mostly filler? Pretty much, but I do like how it shows a bit more of Robin's tactical prowess. I just want to make it clear that I don't consider the avatars avatars, but their own characters. 

The whole waifu and husbando things irks me greatly. And the whole fanservice thing? You're not telling me that the older games didn't have fanservice. Look at Lyn. Warriors improved it by giving her shorts, but in Heroes? On the start screen, it's obvious that she isn't wearing underwear. The only change with the newer games is that it's more focused on boobs, but I honestly see no difference.

As for Fates, I don't like it. Yes, the story is weak and there are some plot convenient features, but other games have them coughRD'sbloodpactcough But it's not that that bothers me. It's Corrin. Take Corrin out and Fates would be so much better.

I personally like how broken you can make the characters. I like having them be gods among men. It's kind of fun even if it does detract from some of the challenge. Though I do stop short of breeding super soldiers.

On 9/16/2017 at 5:25 AM, Thane said:

People have brought up waifus, and I think that's an interesting topic. As a whole, a lot of Fire Emblem fans seem obsessed with waifus, and I don't mean the people who're actually into that stuff, but rather the guys raving against it. For example, Lucina has a genuine hatedom after her, and one of the reasons is because she's a "waifu" character that an avatar can marry. She's clothed from head to toe, has an active role in the story, and never really does anything fan service-y, but because "you" can S-support her, she's automatically a bad character in their eyes. This is just one example and a pretty extreme one at that, of course, but it goes to show how far some people go with this. It makes me wonder if they'd completely dismiss every other Bioware character, or pretty much every female character in Persona 3, 4 and 5.

Seriously, she's a popular and modestly dressed female character of importance, but some people still hate her for "waifu" status (some of which complain about the under dressed fan service too). I really don't like that word except when I'm goofing off with my brother and cousin.

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I just gotta say the pair up machanic in fates is so total trash paired with hybid rng i can send a unit in with 30 def and low res figuring to tank one hit at say 30% hit rate but noooo i get wrecked because 5 enemies attack that do 0damage but ranged magic user doubles for each one as they get ko'd this also hurts flyers because of bow units making flyers totally useless and or any other unit with a weakness forcing you to use only the good(best characters) which is total bs since there are like 120 you can use but only like 30 worth using most of them you get late game so no winning with the starting gang (the ones you fed all your stat boosters) did i mention bs false difficulty like that one boss with super low stats but has counter as a skill of couse my avatar did x2 38dmg and gets wiped and stuff like flying bow units makes flyers even more useless gives you characters like felicia that you can reclass as a hero or if you work hard to get an a+ or s support almost any class but it doesnt matter because my lv 45 (yup eternal seal) felicia hero has only 12 def even though i gave her apptitude not to mention the story i mean half the enemies are translucent nobody's that you cant even see the fight animations for

Anyway

Awakening was a punch in the gut for fe veterans but fates was death itself i wasnt even excited for shadows of Valencia but it was amazing almost every way not perfect but by far the best of the modern fe games so 

F awakening

Marry shadows of Valencia

Kill fates

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