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33 minutes ago, dragonlordsd said:

I have heard that the JP version has improved a lot, but on the NA side, things are bad.

To ascend saber Alter to max, you need 6 reverse dragon scales.

To start with, reverse dragon scales only have a 1% drop rate (though you get 1 for free in Orleans, I think).

At present, in NA they can only drop from fafnirs, which only spawn during the Friday material farming quest, which (obviously) can only be done on friday.

But wait, it gets worse. Not only do they have a 1% drop rate, but fafnirs only have about a 25% chance of spawning in that quest. So each time you do the quest, you only have a .25% chance of getting a scale. And, just in case that's not enough, if you're level 100, you can only do that quest 3 times before you run out of stamina.

It's ridiculous. I mean, the production values on FGO are amazing. Some people put serious time and effort into this, and the results look great. It's just a shame the actual game is so bad.

JP is also shit without events as far as i know. The newer maps only really helps with the silver and below tier drop mats if you took a quick look at the spreadsheet

 

The real problem with NA FGO is the fact that its stuck in the period where JP FGO is utter trashbin. Even in JP, the best location for Reverse Dragon Scale is not much better than NA.

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34 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Even in JP, the best location for Reverse Dragon Scale is not much better than NA.

And here I am with 6 of them (after spending 4) that I presumably picked up as random drops during the event since they weren't in the shop. I didn't realize they were that rare. Huh. I should pay more attention to things.

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3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

And here I am with 6 of them (after spending 4) that I presumably picked up as random drops during the event since they weren't in the shop. I didn't realize they were that rare. Huh. I should pay more attention to things.

JP had them at like 10% droprate on a late story map, and 6% on the class specific drops

I only had 2 and need 2 more for SUMANAI promo lol

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10 hours ago, Koumal8 said:

I even have my doubts whether or not it's possible for a gacha game developer to somehow quantify how much of his revenue will come from addicts and how much will come from free and responsible whales. 

I think this is the core of the issue. Is it addicts who power the game or a collective of responsible big spenders, and if it is addicts, can it be proven that the developers knew and planned to exploit them? We can't really know, so there isn't a basis for suggesting that this game was founded with predatory intentions.

I think one thing that people are ignoring is that FEH is explosively popular and could have survived as a set priced product (or something with a subscription fee). Would they make as much money if they took out the gambling aspect? No, but they could still keep at it for years. Obviously I don't think the game was made with altruistic intentions, but if it can be enjoyed by millions of people, courtesy of the funding by a smaller (willing) subset of the players, I'm glad it exists and can support it completely without causing my moral compass to even wiggle.

Edited by NekoKnight
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3 hours ago, dragonlordsd said:

They are intentionally preyed upon.

There is nothing wrong with serving a small, rich clientele. Luxury car brands intentionally limit their production and jack up the prices.

Also, what if I like the company and I want to give them money so they can keep one my favorite products in production? Do you think there is something wrong with me if I choose to patronize a company or artist more than the average person? How is spending over a $1,000 on a videogame a bad thing if the company making it deserves it?

I love Fire Emblem, but Advance Wars was my first back then when I was kid. That was the game that got me into videogames. After Advance Wars died due to poor sales, Fire Emblem filled that void. Now that I am an adult and I can patronize whoever I want, I choose to patronize Nintendo and Intelligent Systems. I do not want to see another one of my favorite videogame series die.

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I will say gacha games are relatively similar to card games in real life. Similarly, you spend money to buy booster packs, but even if you spend a ton of money there's a chance that you won't get the card you want. Is it unethical then, for shops to continue selling card games?

Edited by GespenstMK2S
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I think the biggest thing we can do is to set limits on how much you spend on these games.  I played Transformers: Earth Wars, and they won't even reveal the drop rates for 4 star characters (the highest you can get).  If you're not getting who you want after dropping 100 orbs, maybe stop and take a break.  But don't keep hitting the buy orbs button.  It might suck that you don't get the character you want right away, but you probably wouldn't feel as bad if you had spent double and got nothing.  

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1 hour ago, Ozil said:

I think the biggest thing we can do is to set limits on how much you spend on these games.  I played Transformers: Earth Wars, and they won't even reveal the drop rates for 4 star characters (the highest you can get).  If you're not getting who you want after dropping 100 orbs, maybe stop and take a break.  But don't keep hitting the buy orbs button.  It might suck that you don't get the character you want right away, but you probably wouldn't feel as bad if you had spent double and got nothing.  

I would not treat adults like children. That pisses off customers and reduces revenue. I do not want somebody telling me how I should spend my money.

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7 minutes ago, XRay said:

I would not treat adults like children. That pisses off customers and reduces revenue. I do not want somebody telling me how I should spend my money.

Oh no I didn't mean the companies setting limits.  I meant us as customers need to set our own limits

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Have given it some thought and no matter  how much this topic is discussed it wont change the fact that everyone is responsible for themselves.

Is it ethical to spend lots of money on this game? Who is the judge?

Are casinos ethical?

Is it ethical to buy a sports car that will burn lits if fuel? You can buy a smaller car with little horse power. Or even better use public transportation.

Have you seen the Nike movie? Is it ethical to still buy their stuff at premium priceswhen they pay their workers a dollar a day and make them live in concentration camp like housing?

Everyone has to decide for themselves what goes and what not. If it makes somebody happy to be a top player at this game and can afford to spend a fortune on it. Thats fine! It will help prolong the life of this game that we all like.

Personally I know that if I started buying orbs I would have severe problems with setting myself spending limits and might probably delete the game again. I know about this so I take a wide berth from the purchase button. When I realized that this might get out of hand I called it quits, didnt regret it at all and was even proud of myself to have taken that step. We are old enough to make our own decisions what to do with our own money.

 

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45 minutes ago, Ozil said:

Oh no I didn't mean the companies setting limits.  I meant us as customers need to set our own limits

Oh okay. Yeah, setting personal limits is a good idea. I generally do not spend much unless it is a Hero Fest banner, limited banner, or a banner with really good skills or units.

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I don't see the draw to spending hundreds of dollars on this game.  First of all, these characters are already playable.  If that guy really wanted Hector, he could buy FE7 for $10 on the virtual console and use Hector for 20 chapters.  Second, I've seen enough horror stories where people use 400+ orbs and don't summon the unit they wanted.  A 3% summoning rate is very low, and there's a sizable pool of 5-star characters.  If I wanted Tana, the chances of me summoning her now are abysmally low.  Third, I could spend $40 and either get 40 orbs which will in all likelihood summon an Azama, Fir, Est, Bartre, and Palla, or I could buy one of the FE games for the 3ds. 

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3 minutes ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

I don't see the draw to spending hundreds of dollars on this game.

I don't see the draw to spending money on sports cars, beer, travel, sports games, fancy restaurants, casinos, or whatnot, but people have their interests and I have no right to tell them they're wrong if they're spending responsibly.

 

7 minutes ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

First of all, these characters are already playable.  If that guy really wanted Hector, he could buy FE7 for $10 on the virtual console and use Hector for 20 chapters.

Your suggestion is basically the same as telling a Cubs fan that if they really wanted to watch the Cubs play, they could buy a TV and watch all the Cubs games they want from home instead of buying season tickets to watch them live.

Much like the point of buying season tickets is not "to watch the Cubs play" but "to watch the Cubs play live and in person and enjoy the atmosphere", the point of pulling for Hector is not "to have Hector" but "to have Hector in Heroes and feed him off to your Titania".

I mean, you can't feed your Hector to Titania in Blazing Blade.

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2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I don't see the draw to spending money on sports cars, beer, travel, sports games, fancy restaurants, casinos, or whatnot, but people have their interests and I have no right to tell them they're wrong if they're spending responsibly.

 

Your suggestion is basically the same as telling a Cubs fan that if they really wanted to watch the Cubs play, they could buy a TV and watch all the Cubs games they want from home instead of buying season tickets to watch them live.

Much like the point of buying season tickets is not "to watch the Cubs play" but "to watch the Cubs play live and in person and enjoy the atmosphere", the point of pulling for Hector is not "to have Hector" but "to have Hector in Heroes and feed him off to your Titania".

I mean, you can't feed your Hector to Titania in Blazing Blade.

I agree with you.  At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what entertainment people choose, it's all sorta a waste of time.  The difference is in social benefit.  Traveling, getting a motorcycle, and "going out" are enjoyable, and they help you connect with normal people to a certain extent.  My point was that it doesn't really make sense in my mind. 

Sports cars are for dorks.  They should spend it on a motorcycle instead.  If I had an extra Hector, i'd feed him to Summer Tiki lol

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19 minutes ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

I don't see the draw to spending hundreds of dollars on this game.  First of all, these characters are already playable.  If that guy really wanted Hector, he could buy FE7 for $10 on the virtual console and use Hector for 20 chapters.  Second, I've seen enough horror stories where people use 400+ orbs and don't summon the unit they wanted.  A 3% summoning rate is very low, and there's a sizable pool of 5-star characters.  If I wanted Tana, the chances of me summoning her now are abysmally low.  Third, I could spend $40 and either get 40 orbs which will in all likelihood summon an Azama, Fir, Est, Bartre, and Palla, or I could buy one of the FE games for the 3ds. 

The basic premise of gacha games is the unpredictable boon or bane while summoning. Of course horrir stories do exist and I feel for these people, been there done that. Pulling units is exciting on its own merit and part of what makes this game actually great.

Imagine heroea wouls have been sold for 10$ with the basic game that was released day one. One team consisting of anna. Sharena,alfonse and virion and thats all. I think that would have been boring as hell.

As it is now the game is constantly evolving with new units changing the meta, blyn for example.

Sure, it can be frustrating if u spend a whole lot of orbs and get nothing but it can be extremely rewarding if u get the unit u want during first summon.

Value is all relative. People pay huge amounts of money for art for example. I dont want to depreciate art in any sense, but I dont really care about it in regard to its value. If I wanted Picasso I could make do with a poster. Whats the point on owning the original? I value physical copies of video games and spend relatively lots of money on it, if that makes ne happy then its fine. I am sure there will be people who would frown upon this.

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20 minutes ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what entertainment people choose, it's all sorta a waste of time.

No, entertainment is not a waste of time. A lot of people need to relieve themselves at the end of the day. Burn out is a problem for a lot of professions. There are some people who can just clock in and out, head straight home, watch videos, sleep, and repeat all that every day, but many people need more stimulants in their lives. As long as you can afford it, $40.00 per week is a small price to pay to keep your sanity.

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If the parents let their kids have details of their accounts/cards, that is irresponsible of them. There is just so much a company can do. If they try to encourage that behavior, for instance by placing ads in kids' magazine or designing characters that are clearly aimed to a 7 year old, then it's an issue, but I don't think Nintendo did that?

About whaling, it's practically gambling, so if gambling is legal I can't see why this is not ok. As long as you don't spend beyond your means - and even if you spend beyond your means, others are still in no position to judge because it's your money.

That said, the business model is somewhat questionable. The fact that this game can gain more than Fates/Awakening combined does not sit well with me as it is an evidence of a key factor in the game mechanics here other than quality. Do I think whales should be condemned for 'giving in' to the temptation? No. We are all adults here and it's not my money to judge. But I won't object to more industry regulation as a whole.

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On 9/16/2017 at 8:11 PM, Arcanite said:

Like how many chicken nuggets could you have bought with 7.5k dollars?

In my neck of the woods 40 McNuggets cost about $10.  So at 25 cents each, you could get about 30,000 McNuggets or about 8.79 million calories.   I don't know people might be better off buying the orbs.   But that Szechaun sauce tho...

Edited by tanuki
Wires crossed when doing math :P
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1 hour ago, Okigen said:

 That said, the business model is somewhat questionable. The fact that this game can gain more than Fates/Awakening combined does not sit well with me as it is an evidence of a key factor in the game mechanics here other than quality. Do I think whales should be condemned for 'giving in' to the temptation? No. We are all adults here and it's not my money to judge. But I won't object to more industry regulation as a whole.

Huh,  are you trying imply that Heroes aren't as good game as Fate/Awakening? 

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15 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

Huh,  are you trying imply that Heroes aren't as good game as Fate/Awakening? 

Yes, in a way. What I specifically meant was that it does not have the depth and the investment that Fates/Awakening had.     Very good as a mobile game, but still not a mainstream game. However please don't put my comments out of context, I'm not trying to debate abou this game's quality.

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