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Interdimensional Observer

The Logistics of Marriage Modernization

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On 2017-10-04 at 4:43 AM, Jugdral Defender said:

Honestly I'm completely of the mindset of no remake.

The fandom overall in this day and age couldn't even handle FE14 when it came to incest and bi characters. The fandom blew up over the dumbest things that were optional. The localization would probably censor too much and after what happened with Awakening, I don't trust the localized writing not to change entire backstories and leave out vital details. Ah yes, we're not having our children captured by the Lopt Sect and sacrificed and murdered for people to become nobles of the new empire. They're just going to wizard school!!!

As for the love system, the only thing I'd prefer is they make it more obvious where the love points are out of five hundred with the little fortune teller comment. Otherwise, don't even touch it. Keep it as it is. Supports would be one thing for characters with any kind of chemistry or if IS could find a way to GIVE people chemistry then fine, but god no I would never want to see every single unit with supports. I love the 3DS games, but a lot of supports are cringe worthy at how forced they are to even exist. FE4 has the perfect dialogue balance. It's not too little and you get to learn about the characters, and it's not too much to the point that what they say is just filler text and thrown in there without meaning. In FE4, every bit of dialogue counts for something.

FE4 wasn't planned to be FE in the first place - and that's what makes it too difficult to remake it to be "more modern". It was made FE because it was too similar in the end. A port with updated graphics would be one thing, with absolutely positively nothing changed, but that still brings us to localization which is what most people will know. Japan is only one country. As stated above, I could never trust localization with FE4.

As mentioned, FE4 was the top ranked game among Japanese fans very recently. That also means they prefer the old gameplay. For example, if SoV won, that would mean a remake was preferred. In this case, not only did a very not modern game come out as number one, but it wasn't an older title that got a remake.

To be fair too, IS is still more or less ignoring the hell out of Jugdral where possible - such as in Heroes. I know there was a prediction floating around about getting it in October for FE4, but look how long it took. One banner and one GHB potentially, and it's been quite a long time since we last saw new Jugdral in Heroes. More like, it's about fuckin' time. IS simply has no urgency whatsoever for Jugdral, and that makes it much more unlikely it will ever see remakes. Of course, I have zero issue with that. It's not just IS. It's not that I don't think they'd be faithful. The Japanese version surely would. Localization? Awakening would death glare for both their sakes. And as mentioned as well, Awakening very much seemed to take inspiration off FE4's story, and Awakening did fantastic in the market beyond just Japan (to which btw, FE4 is STILL Japan's second best seller behind FE3. FE13/14 only did better due to being worldwide - not in their country of origin). Awakening is definitely a much happier overall take on FE4 with its ending….. Yeah this post lul

Okay, so i wrote a really long thing but it got erased, so let me give you a short form, Its gonna be a bit more blunt then i intend it to be, but i want to just see if i can change a bit how you think about this

  • First, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE FE 4 MANGA TRANSLATION YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST, DON'T WANNA SOUND LIKE A ASS, BUT PLZ MORE… if not just relase the raw scans
  • You seem to be to hung up on Awakening, i trust the people that did awakening since, A, Echoes was done by them and it was really well, B they did Nier which are much darker then FE 4, so its not them i worry about, its nintendo
  • Even then the tone of awakening is all over the place. I think they just went for a more light hearted story to aim to a younger audience, And they did a good job at doing that, now with a healthier series, they've been trying to go down darker places, such as with the Nohr Lolli in Fates, and even in Echoes
  • IS cares a lot more about the west now, the investors meeting they highlighted how well Heroes was doing in the west, also notice how in seasonal units they choose characters that have been in japan and the west. CYL events in the past would have been a Japanese magazine popularity poll, now they look for international feed back
  • IS stood very loyal to FE 2, because they cared about that game, if they put like 75% of the heart they had in Echoes like they could for a FE 4 remake, i think they'll be very loyal, and i think Nintend will allow this
  • Media has shifted and nintendo as a company as shifted, although not perfect they still allow mention of bastards and people sleeping around in warriors, they also shift there target audience for the switch drastically if you see what there saying and how they advertise there products. There the number one concern, but with media like Game of Thrones being the most popular thing on American television, that can't hurt FE 4 chances of being loyal
  • Supports don't Have to be worst case like how i think your thinking. I really do think FE 4 would do well with supports. Echoes did fine, as supports were more of a side thing. For a remake, wouldn't't a conversation or support for like Lachesis and Sigurd be so cool? If you recall in FE 11, there were no supports, so once you get to something like Michalis, it had been 13 chapter since his name was even spoken, plus its right after Camus. If there were Minerva supports like in 12 to flesh out the Macedon plot, i think it could really help Michalis impact when you see him be more then a "Oh yeah this guy" Same story for FE
  • Also in remakes for FE 12 and Echoes supports are awesome and don't take away from the core story at all, The writings loyal and great in that game
  • IS i think does care about FE 4, they gave FE 4 a lot of stuff in heroes. Sure they could have given it to us earlier, but then you run the risk of FE 4 being overshadowed by the well known character in Bikinis and bunny outfits overshadowing them. Instead they threw them in with the dancers, and even then FE 4 became a huuuugggeee deal to them
  • Overall i think your too caught up on Awakening/Fates to see the recent improvements of the last even 6-12 months with the series. I want a "not pulling punches" type FE 4 remake, and you know what? i believe we'll get it. Nintendo slowly going to a more hardcore audience, FE 4 doesn't have Awakening tone issues so it'll have a consistent one, the series has evolved into a international brand, and IS does care about the west a lot more then i think you give them credit for (The Dorcas Memes got into heroes for Petes sake) and Echoes already experimenting with darker themes. Although Fates wasn't handled well, Leon and other things in that game were handled really fucking well by the fans. Hell in the heroes reddit they handle the Taltiu story extremely fucking well once they learned about it. 
  • Also your forgetting, there is such thing as a M rating, will we get it? I'd give it a low chance, but fuck, if IS is gonna do it with any game, its FE fucking 4.
  • To the Bi Sexual thing, i'm fine with it being in the game, its just like, i won't pretend to know much about that stuff, i'm not creeped out by it, just don't really dabble in it much,
  • NOW GET THE PEOPLE WHO LIKE ARE THE TRANSLATERS FOR THE MANGA  AND TRANSLATE THE PLZ….or link me the raws, I NEED MORE
Edited by DoseofDhillon

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It's worth noting that Nintendo, as a company, while still generally more family/child friendly, is now more concerned with appealing to a broad group of people.

I don't think "Jugdral is too dark" is as much of a hurdle now as it would have been 5 years ago. I'd reckon that the standards of Nintendo right now are closer to the standards of the Nintendo that first allowed FE4 and 5 to include the things that make them heavier games. Hell, when you boil down what little Breath of the Wild has as a plot, it can be summarized as "Helping your dead friends avenge their own murders". Which, for a central plot, is just about as dark as Zelda's gotten since Majora's Mask.

FE4's still head and shoulders above BotW when it comes to that kind of stuff, but I don't think it's unreasonable right now.

Edited by Slumber

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On 10/4/2017 at 9:42 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

Gaiden had no popularity, at best its world map grinding idea had been borrowed in recent games. If Gaiden got remade, Genealogy will some day.

Following up on what @Zasplach said, Genealogy is too much of a double-edged sword for them to remake. There are people who feel passionately about it on both sides of the love-hate spectrum, and IntSys runs the risk of ticking off either no matter what they do. There are people who wouldn't buy it if they changed too much and people who wouldn't buy it if they changed too little, and there's no real middle ground going off of conversations I've had.

On 10/4/2017 at 11:02 AM, CappnRob said:

I personally really don't like the idea of seeing your exact amount of love points. It makes the love system feel artificial (which I guess it is anyway but this moreso) because its giving a quantitative value to the character's emotions. Idk, it just feels weird?

Exact points would be weird and I agree that shouldn't be implemented, but some visual method of determining them outside of vague statements from the augury (who I didn't even know existed in my playthrough, honestly) would be nice. Otherwise, being able to choose and confirm the pairings instead of them automatically happening would be my only wish. I think the love system is the mechanic from Genealogy I have the least problems with, so I'm not too bothered if they don't change it drastically.

Re: the censorship stuff, I don't think there's too much of a concern about that. Awakening and Fates' changes didn't involve any of the things that could possibly be censored in an FE4 remake; about the only thing was their in vain attempt to play down the incest in Awakening, and they dropped that like a hot potato for Fates or otherwise made it so such a situation could never occur. The worst I think we'd see is Ares and Nanna, Brigid and Edain kids and Lex's kids and the axe bros unable to marry, which isn't exactly a huge loss.

Edited by Azure Sen
I am full of errors tonight

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5 hours ago, DoseofDhillon said:

Okay, so i wrote a really long thing but it got erased, so let me give you a short form, Its gonna be a bit more blunt then i intend it to be, but i want to just see if i can change a bit how you think about this

  • First, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE FE 4 MANGA TRANSLATION YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST, DON'T WANNA SOUND LIKE A ASS, BUT PLZ MORE… if not just relase the raw scans
  • You seem to be to hung up on Awakening, i trust the people that did awakening since, A, Echoes was done by them and it was really well, B they did Nier which are much darker then FE 4, so its not them i worry about, its nintendo
  • Even then the tone of awakening is all over the place. I think they just went for a more light hearted story to aim to a younger audience, And they did a good job at doing that, now with a healthier series, they've been trying to go down darker places, such as with the Nohr Lolli in Fates, and even in Echoes
  • IS cares a lot more about the west now, the investors meeting they highlighted how well Heroes was doing in the west, also notice how in seasonal units they choose characters that have been in japan and the west. CYL events in the past would have been a Japanese magazine popularity poll, now they look for international feed back
  • IS stood very loyal to FE 2, because they cared about that game, if they put like 75% of the heart they had in Echoes like they could for a FE 4 remake, i think they'll be very loyal, and i think Nintend will allow this
  • Media has shifted and nintendo as a company as shifted, although not perfect they still allow mention of bastards and people sleeping around in warriors, they also shift there target audience for the switch drastically if you see what there saying and how they advertise there products. There the number one concern, but with media like Game of Thrones being the most popular thing on American television, that can't hurt FE 4 chances of being loyal
  • Supports don't Have to be worst case like how i think your thinking. I really do think FE 4 would do well with supports. Echoes did fine, as supports were more of a side thing. For a remake, wouldn't't a conversation or support for like Lachesis and Sigurd be so cool? If you recall in FE 11, there were no supports, so once you get to something like Michalis, it had been 13 chapter since his name was even spoken, plus its right after Camus. If there were Minerva supports like in 12 to flesh out the Macedon plot, i think it could really help Michalis impact when you see him be more then a "Oh yeah this guy" Same story for FE
  • Also in remakes for FE 12 and Echoes supports are awesome and don't take away from the core story at all, The writings loyal and great in that game
  • IS i think does care about FE 4, they gave FE 4 a lot of stuff in heroes. Sure they could have given it to us earlier, but then you run the risk of FE 4 being overshadowed by the well known character in Bikinis and bunny outfits overshadowing them. Instead they threw them in with the dancers, and even then FE 4 became a huuuugggeee deal to them
  • Overall i think your too caught up on Awakening/Fates to see the recent improvements of the last even 6-12 months with the series. I want a "not pulling punches" type FE 4 remake, and you know what? i believe we'll get it. Nintendo slowly going to a more hardcore audience, FE 4 doesn't have Awakening tone issues so it'll have a consistent one, the series has evolved into a international brand, and IS does care about the west a lot more then i think you give them credit for (The Dorcas Memes got into heroes for Petes sake) and Echoes already experimenting with darker themes. Although Fates wasn't handled well, Leon and other things in that game were handled really fucking well by the fans. Hell in the heroes reddit they handle the Taltiu story extremely fucking well once they learned about it. 
  • Also your forgetting, there is such thing as a M rating, will we get it? I'd give it a low chance, but fuck, if IS is gonna do it with any game, its FE fucking 4.
  • To the Bi Sexual thing, i'm fine with it being in the game, its just like, i won't pretend to know much about that stuff, i'm not creeped out by it, just don't really dabble in it much,
  • NOW GET THE PEOPLE WHO LIKE ARE THE TRANSLATERS FOR THE MANGA  AND TRANSLATE THE PLZ….or link me the raws, I NEED MORE

First, I know you're just thanking them for work on the Ooswa manga, but saying stuff about it can seem kind of pushy, and they've already mentioned that they don't love having people ask them to hurry up, it's a pretty labor intensive job I imagine.

  • I think the Awakening and Fates localization is quiet generally harangued by the whole community (not speaking Japanese I have very little practical experience), but it seems that lots of shenanigans took place so past experience is bad and in terms of SoV, what was so controversial to localize?  It was a barebones Gaiden story that got fleshed out with very simple (if endearing) supports and a few characters thrown in, what was so controversial about anything in the whole game?  There was a basic war, where baddies could summon evil monsters and some people were captured and a country was treated badly by another, not very serious stuff for an FE game.  FE4 on the other hands covers some pretty mature topics, incest (which Fates and Awakening both showed us can be covered awfully with no illumination or grace), child enslavement/arenas for weeding out weaklings, witch-hunts, and political murders, seems like a different animal to me.
  • What dark places did they go down in those two games, in conquest Corrin never does bad stuff, his/her actions are always in the best light and the world comes out to be better despite the fact that she sides with a literal evil possessed dragon man and if you're giving credence to Nyx, color me confused.  She just seems to be an old lady trapped in a little girls body and doesn't wear pants and is obsessed with herself actually being really old but being really young.
  • IS has cared about the west for a long time, every since FE7, but they've really cared since Tellius where low sales here absolutely sunk those games and almost Titaniced the whole series, they need our money to survive.
  • Gaiden was basically a very simple NES game, I repeat NES.  I'm 25 years old next month and the game is older than I am, there wasn't much to be faithful to.  In the old days, before FE8 for sure, it was the Zelda 2, the black sheep, but some of the more unusual features of the game got into later games like open world and unlimited girding, yeah shrines and odd classes stuck around and skills too, but after the strange rpg dungeon elements in the game it plays like a fire emblem game really, FE4 on the other hand plays slightly differently, it's an odd duck in and of itself and before @Jugdral Defender  said it was a different game before it became an FE, I didn't know, but it makes sense.  Lots of difficult decisions to be made there.
  • Supports in FE4 would be ok, but if the love mechanic was mixed with C-S supports with every male and female pairing, the game could be a bloated disaster.  Though I find bad pairings to be fun and strange and a great part of the game, having Adean and Holyn (or whatever his localized name is) have to have four conversations before they would marry would be dump and forced.  What do they have to talk about?  They don't know the same people, they don't have the same life experiences, they are from vastly different places, so some stupid gimmick would have to be created from them to connect around.  That sounds painful.
  • In terms of Heroes (I don't play so correct me if I'm wrong) but just looking at the list, it seems that Tellius and Magvel are the only games with fewer characters than Judgral, that doesn't seem like a lot (Judgral has 12, Telius has 10, 11 if you include brave Ike and Magvel has 9).  It doesn't seem IS has any interest in remaking either of those two games, so I don't see a lot of attention there, heck Ellibe has 32 and 14 seem to be from BB.
  • You ever heard fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me?  6-12 months of improvements, I don't have an opinion, so I'll take your word, isn't very much, it takes a lot of improvement when you've made big mistakes, I think a lot of people want to see that.
  • IS doesn't want to touch an 'M' rating with a ten-foot poll, talk about a way to turn off all sorts of groups.  Nintendo doesn't like 'M' ratings, but IS has firmly placed it self in the friendly for teenagers who like strategy games and moms aren't gonna buy them a game rated 'M', at least my mom never would have.
  • I don't think 80-90 percent of FE fans would object to bi/homosexual characters in any game (I'm not partial either way) but I think a lot of us would cringe at poorly written ones that would alter of warp a character that people are already fans of.  FE4 is a pretty likable cast, changing some characters to retcon relationships is a dangerous precedent to set. 

 

This is why @Azure Sen was right in quoting me in saying there are a lot of dangerous pillars to touch in a FE4 remake, pillars IS should consider carefully before pulling the trigger. 

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3 hours ago, Zasplach said:

FE4 on the other hands covers some pretty mature topics, incest (which Fates and Awakening both showed us can be covered awfully with no illumination or grace), child enslavement/arenas for weeding out weaklings, witch-hunts, and political murders, seems like a different animal to me.

Political murder isn't such a dark thing- as long as we don't see Prince Kurth's throat being slit. No graphics no problem. 

Child hunts- they do appear, that I must admit. However, we never see the terrible process by which they lose their souls and become the slaves of Loptyr.

Witch hunts- I don't think they ever appear. No visuals, only spoken statements of them happening isn't so bad.

You also forgot Tine and Tailtiu- victims of familial abuse, the latter killed by it. That is pretty bad, although isn't that the whole thing behind Camilla (but of course that was handled terribly right)?

Another instance of NoA being overly sensitive- Shadow Dragon's little Knorda Slave Market in Chapter 11- the village, slave market, you recruit Linde from, became a ruffian "hold up"/hostage situation of civilians. There goes child hunts if this is anything to go by. SD is 4 games past by this point however.

 

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1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Another instance of NoA being overly sensitive- Shadow Dragon's little Knorda Slave Market in Chapter 11- the village, slave market, you recruit Linde from, became a ruffian "hold up"/hostage situation of civilians. There goes child hunts if this is anything to go by. SD is 4 games past by this point however.

4 games past and nearly a decade since SD, never mind the attitude shifts since then (though no wonder I didn't remember the market after playing SD, localisation for the lose). It won't surprise me that it wouldn't be censored this time. SoV is also pretty okay with leaving the implications of what happens to witches out there, so the whole losing their souls thing isn't a no-sell either.

Thing is, I do think the reactions to the localisation of Fates will have an impact; the change in attitude between Fates and SoV already shows some signs that being risk averse in changing things rather than trying to avoid controversy did no harm, at least in discourse for localisation.

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1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Political murder isn't such a dark thing- as long as we don't see Prince Kurth's throat being slit. No graphics no problem. 

Child hunts- they do appear, that I must admit. However, we never see the terrible process by which they lose their souls and become the slaves of Loptyr.

Witch hunts- I don't think they ever appear. No visuals, only spoken statements of them happening isn't so bad.

You also forgot Tine and Tailtiu- victims of familial abuse, the latter killed by it. That is pretty bad, although isn't that the whole thing behind Camilla (but of course that was handled terribly right)?

Another instance of NoA being overly sensitive- Shadow Dragon's little Knorda Slave Market in Chapter 11- the village, slave market, you recruit Linde from, became a ruffian "hold up"/hostage situation of civilians. There goes child hunts if this is anything to go by. SD is 4 games past by this point however.

 

Tailtiu's case is a little bit more extreme.

She's basically tortured by her sister-in-law after surviving the Battle of Belhalla for years and years, and basically becomes so broken that she dies due to a mix of emotional/physical stress in prison. The only thing that kept her going was her trying to protect Tine, and she just broke.

There's also the implied second nature of being a Dancer in Jugdral, which is basically that they're more or less treated as sex objects. Sylvia has some pretty... choice words to describe how grown up she is to Alec, Lene's heavily implied to have been raped in prison by Bramsel(And we more or less do see these events play out), and Lara's whole backstory as a "personal dancer"...

And while we don't see what actually happens to the children when they're abducted and offered to Loptyr, we do see a LOT that sets Jugdral's child hunts from anything else in the series. Mostly in Thracia, since that game deals more with it, but it'd be a subject that'd have to get touched on eventually. Anyway, we see a lot of how destroyed families become over them. Two units you recruit, can only be recruited if you save their family members from the Hunts. Dalsin's little brother, and Hicks' son. We also see the Granbell Empire/Lopto Sect being perfectly okay with killing these unarmed children if it looks like they might escape. Granted, Fire Emblem hasn't shied away from showing innocent children die, even in the western releases(The early Fog of War chapter in Sacred Stones where the family of villagers can get eaten by spiders), but the Jugdral games take it to more extreme levels.

Basically, while there's smatterings of pretty hardcore stuff in the Fire Emblem series, the Jugdral games pretty much do them all. And they go way further than other examples in the franchise.

But again, I don't think Nintendo today is the same Nintendo of the Shadow Dragon release that couldn't bear to mention slavery. The market the Switch immediately went for was "Trendy 20-somethings", and Nintendo was hungry to get Bethesda games like Doom on the system even BEFORE it proved itself. Games like MadWorld and No More Heroes came to the Wii after it had proven that it was a hit. It was going for a secondary demographic then, while the primary one was the one that all of the first year of content was aimed at. If there was ever a game that Nintendo wanted to do that showed that they weren't all baby games or mood with minimal story, FE4 would be the game to (re)do.

Edited by Slumber

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Okay, looks like there's an argument going on and I don't need to get involved in that, but:

I think Genealogy could be remade fairly well as it is. At least as far as support conversations go, it doesn't really need them. There are already conversations all around the game, there just aren't enough. You could make it so that every unit can have a conversation or two on every map. In Chapter 1, Finn can talk to Quan. In Chapter 2, Finn can talk Lex. In Chapter 3, Finn can talk to Ethlin and Dew. Since there are so few chapters to begin with, it could fill in for regular supports quite nicely, as with the traditional limit of 1 support conversation per chapter, there are many characters who would never get to A or S anyway. Conversations between members of opposite genders could increase the already existing love points system. 

As for the traditional effect of support levels increasing stats in battle, that would be somewhat redundant with the command star system anyway.

 

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15 hours ago, Zasplach said:

First, I know you're just thanking them for work on the Ooswa manga, but saying stuff about it can seem kind of pushy, and they've already mentioned that they don't love having people ask them to hurry up, it's a pretty labor intensive job I imagine.

  • I think the Awakening and Fates localization is quiet generally harangued by the whole community (not speaking Japanese I have very little practical experience), but it seems that lots of shenanigans took place so past experience is bad and in terms of SoV, what was so controversial to localize?  It was a barebones Gaiden story that got fleshed out with very simple (if endearing) supports and a few characters thrown in, what was so controversial about anything in the whole game?  There was a basic war, where baddies could summon evil monsters and some people were captured and a country was treated badly by another, not very serious stuff for an FE game.  FE4 on the other hands covers some pretty mature topics, incest (which Fates and Awakening both showed us can be covered awfully with no illumination or grace), child enslavement/arenas for weeding out weaklings, witch-hunts, and political murders, seems like a different animal to me.
  • What dark places did they go down in those two games, in conquest Corrin never does bad stuff, his/her actions are always in the best light and the world comes out to be better despite the fact that she sides with a literal evil possessed dragon man and if you're giving credence to Nyx, color me confused.  She just seems to be an old lady trapped in a little girls body and doesn't wear pants and is obsessed with herself actually being really old but being really young.
  • IS has cared about the west for a long time, every since FE7, but they've really cared since Tellius where low sales here absolutely sunk those games and almost Titaniced the whole series, they need our money to survive.
  • Yeah this post

 

This is why @Azure Sen was right in quoting me in saying there are a lot of dangerous pillars to touch in a FE4 remake, pillars IS should consider carefully before pulling the trigger. 

  • There are implied things in that game, i'm not saying SoV is dark, but with some of the implied dark stuff in the game are handled well. Awakening i already said how they went for a particular story, and its seemingly more on Nintendo, who's allowed there name to be deeply associated with games like DOOM and Bayonetta in the last 5 years. Hell, SMV is a exclusive on the switch a long with No More Heroes….No More Heroes 2 was about travis trying t fuck one girl. This translation group is not to blame, there previous work shows us that there really good. Fates was done by Treehouse and Nintendo Treehouse is kinda trash.
  • To summarize Nyx suicide tendencies, her sexual frustration, and her very own depression and extreme isolation as "Just a old lady in a young persons body" is lets just say….. insensitive? Dark themes explored by someone like Mozu losing her whole family and told by Niles in a C support "Get over it scrub" is i guess really light hearted. 
  • To look at progress, clear progress is clear. Being hung up on games that didn't sell well after this recent surge fire emblem is just cherry picking. The GBA games did well in the west, Awakening, Fates, and SOV also were very successful in the west. Thats about 5/8 games, 1 of them being FE 11 that didn't even sell well in Japan either. and PoR was on the god damn gamecube. 
  • Yes its a old NES rpg that was broken as fuck, yet they kept everything they could. FE 4 isn't that different. your doing the core thing, the only differences is the maps just have multiple objectives in them as you unlock more of the map, and the goal posts change. I don't think anyone would be confused going from Awakening and fates to fe 4, great example, everyone in the west who have recently played FE 4, the most confusing thing in FE 4 for new players is the love system and blood, two of the worst explained mechanics in FE 4. And your right, there wasn't much to stay faithful too, you know what they could have done in a FE 2 remake? Pair up, kids, weapon triangle,  normal tome's, unlimited supports ect. When you have less to stay loyal too, you can change a lot more, yet they only really just tried to balance the game out
  • …I mean its nor that difficult, again, no ones asking for unlimited supports, if you played Echoes, they actually do the Tobin, Clair Grey love triangle pretty well. you could have said THE EXACT same thing you just said….but you know what? They did it really well. Although 4 conversations is kinda dumb, one convo after my guy stood close to him 1 too many turns is also dumb, at least in a conversation they can do stuff and go places. Tatiana and Zeke supports are great, you know whats the worst part everyone bitches about in FE 4 story, especially in gen 1. Diedre has no character. I wonder what could help that? I could get worse, but it also could get a lot fucking better.
  • Also AGAIN. What is one key thing your forgetting here, no one outside of Japan should know what  Sigurd is. They know what a ike, Soren and joshua are, but when the international market, the bigger market then Japan, doesn't know who they are, why would you put them in a game where character recognition is kinda important. The fact that there are more FE 4 characters is baffling. And you say 2 games, yet Thracia might be the least popular game in the fire emblem game, and Ike was in the CYL poll top 5 TWICE
  • I mean its a start. You can't say progress isn't progress just because 5 years ago they were mean. I'm not saying everything will go fine, i'm just presenting you with things that have happened this year alone that can give you maybe a better outlook. I don't think IS or any translation company sleeps at night doing "MUHAHA THE WEST WILL GET A SHITTY VERSION OF OUR PRODUCT"
  • Look, doing a FE 4 remake would be difficult, but i'm willing to take the chance. Because even if its a shitty fucking remake, we have the original games. If you don't want a remake because you think it'll be bad, thats fine. If the remake does come out and is bad, its a remake, we have the originals in that case and your status quo doesn't really change outside of conversations like this. If its good or on par with the original, then everyones happy. If it can be great or even better then the original, whelp, lets not take that chance now because my internet conversation will be slightly different.  M would probably not happen, but its far FAR more likely then it was 5 years ago. Nintendo shift on who they market it too, Nintendo going to more dark games, and the FE becoming a big fucking deal and slowly pushing the boundaries of what they can do. Fucking Game of Throne introducing elements that are all throughout FE 4 but even MORE hardcore, yet GoT being the most popular show this fucking decade. I'd give a M rating like a….10%? 20% chance? if FE 4 ever gets remade, but by god, if its any fucking game, this is the one
Edited by DoseofDhillon

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6 hours ago, DoseofDhillon said:
  • There are implied things in that game, i'm not saying SoV is dark, but with some of the implied dark stuff in the game are handled well. Awakening i already said how they went for a particular story, and its seemingly more on Nintendo, who's allowed there name to be deeply associated with games like DOOM and Bayonetta in the last 5 years. Hell, SMV is a exclusive on the switch a long with No More Heroes….No More Heroes 2 was about travis trying t fuck one girl. This translation group is not to blame, there previous work shows us that there really good. Fates was done by Treehouse and Nintendo Treehouse is kinda trash.
  • To summarize Nyx suicide tendencies, her sexual frustration, and her very own depression and extreme isolation as "Just a old lady in a young persons body" is lets just say….. insensitive? Dark themes explored by someone like Mozu losing her whole family and told by Niles in a C support "Get over it scrub" is i guess really light hearted. 
  • To look at progress, clear progress is clear. Being hung up on games that didn't sell well after this recent surge fire emblem is just cherry picking. The GBA games did well in the west, Awakening, Fates, and SOV also were very successful in the west. Thats about 5/8 games, 1 of them being FE 11 that didn't even sell well in Japan either. and PoR was on the god damn gamecube. 
  • Yes its a old NES rpg that was broken as fuck, yet they kept everything they could. FE 4 isn't that different. your doing the core thing, the only differences is the maps just have multiple objectives in them as you unlock more of the map, and the goal posts change. I don't think anyone would be confused going from Awakening and fates to fe 4, great example, everyone in the west who have recently played FE 4, the most confusing thing in FE 4 for new players is the love system and blood, two of the worst explained mechanics in FE 4. And your right, there wasn't much to stay faithful too, you know what they could have done in a FE 2 remake? Pair up, kids, weapon triangle,  normal tome's, unlimited supports ect. When you have less to stay loyal too, you can change a lot more, yet they only really just tried to balance the game out
  • …I mean its nor that difficult, again, no ones asking for unlimited supports, if you played Echoes, they actually do the Tobin, Clair Grey love triangle pretty well. you could have said THE EXACT same thing you just said….but you know what? They did it really well. Although 4 conversations is kinda dumb, one convo after my guy stood close to him 1 too many turns is also dumb, at least in a conversation they can do stuff and go places. Tatiana and Zeke supports are great, you know whats the worst part everyone bitches about in FE 4 story, especially in gen 1. Diedre has no character. I wonder what could help that? I could get worse, but it also could get a lot fucking better.
  • Also AGAIN. What is one key thing your forgetting here, no one outside of Japan should know what  Sigurd is. They know what a ike, Soren and joshua are, but when the international market, the bigger market then Japan, doesn't know who they are, why would you put them in a game where character recognition is kinda important. The fact that there are more FE 4 characters is baffling. And you say 2 games, yet Thracia might be the least popular game in the fire emblem game, and Ike was in the CYL poll top 5 TWICE
  • I mean its a start. You can't say progress isn't progress just because 5 years ago they were mean. I'm not saying everything will go fine, i'm just presenting you with things that have happened this year alone that can give you maybe a better outlook. I don't think IS or any translation company sleeps at night doing "MUHAHA THE WEST WILL GET A SHITTY VERSION OF OUR PRODUCT"
  • Look, doing a FE 4 remake would be difficult, but i'm willing to take the chance. Because even if its a shitty fucking remake, we have the original games. If you don't want a remake because you think it'll be bad, thats fine. If the remake does come out and is bad, its a remake, we have the originals in that case and your status quo doesn't really change outside of conversations like this. If its good or on par with the original, then everyones happy. If it can be great or even better then the original, whelp, lets not take that chance now because my internet conversation will be slightly different.  M would probably not happen, but its far FAR more likely then it was 5 years ago. Nintendo shift on who they market it too, Nintendo going to more dark games, and the FE becoming a big fucking deal and slowly pushing the boundaries of what they can do. Fucking Game of Throne introducing elements that are all throughout FE 4 but even MORE hardcore, yet GoT being the most popular show this fucking decade. I'd give a M rating like a….10%? 20% chance? if FE 4 ever gets remade, but by god, if its any fucking game, this is the one

Let me preface this by saying, I think that your hope for a potential FE4 remake is refreshing and as a cynic I tend to see the worst possibilities, just the way I am.  I hope they remake it and do a great job, I'm just not holding my breathe.  There is a risk of IS, pardon my french,  shitting the bed by trying to hedge their bets and trying to please everyone, Fire Emblem fans that like FE4 and fans that dislike FE4.  Everyone should question how and what they think, especially about silly things like video games and entertainment, I just see the pitfalls in this situation.

  • Maybe Nintendo is going for a more mature audience, I remember when they did that frequently and did a good job of it.  They just vacillate from that to what they see as a safer audience, kids and mature content can turn off the audiences that buy for them.
  • Nyx's character is pretty well hidden behind the support system, reading all of them gives her a sense of loneliness that makes sense for an older person in a young person's world, but those aren't her main interactions with the avatar or in the story, her main impression is that's she's old, really old and also sexualized, very sexualized.  
  • FE4 just feels a lot different from main line Fire Emblem does now more so than Gaiden does (I know this sounds strange but really look at it).  Yeah, they took the kid mechanic from Fe4 and used it for better or worse in FE 13/14, but the tight cast, the huge maps, yes huge, the very high stat caps and bases, the extreme emphasis on player phase, feels very different from what's been successful of late, like world maps and grinding, supports for most everyone, and enemy  phase emphasis linked with skills and pair-ups.
  • Gaiden's supports are endearing (I did say that), but there isn't the the whole loaded problem of love mechanics anywhere in Gaiden, but Fe4 is already coming in with that smoking gun pre-loaded.  How are they going to deal with this, what interactions are they going to make, is no supports despite pairing up alright? I don't know what IS thinks about this, how they handle it will be telling.  The thing about the Clair, Gray, Tobin triangle is that the Gray-Clair pairing is already cannon from Fe2 and they have a sort of chemistry of 'snotty', stand-offish noble and commoner who really pursues her, and Tobin never directly interacts with her, rather he talks to Gray, a person with whom he has a deep personal connection, they've been friends their whole lives, lots to connect around here; it feels natural, not forced.
  • Nintendo/IS aren't stupid, they know thousands of westerners have played the game on Roms, hardcore fans have a connection to the game. FE4 has 10 characters, basically on pace with SS's 9, yeah Fe4 never got localized, but people have been introduced to these characters in Awakening, where lots of Fe4 characters got spot-passes, I imagine that peaked interest in Western fans who were curious about them, thus why they make sense in Heroes.
  • IS has always cared about the west, they like money and ours is as green as anyone's.  They don't think 'let's make an awful game', they think, 'hmm this might come off as too.... serious or mature or unpleasant or grating, let's brush over this and simplify it, making it nicer'.
  • This I think is a mildly dangerous way of thinking, yeah if they bomb, sure we have the old game, but talk about a slap-in-the-face to fans of Fe4 and talk about a huge turn-off to new fans and a way to keep people from playing a game you and I both enjoy.  I want every FE fan to play Fe4, I really enjoy it and I think many/most of them will too, but if they, once again pardon my French, shit the bed, how would I convince anyone to play the 20+ year old game when they just made a horrible remake, talk about a no-go.

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2 hours ago, Zasplach said:

Let me preface this by saying, I think that your hope for a potential FE4 remake is refreshing and as a cynic I tend to see the worst possibilities, just the way I am.  I hope they remake it and do a great job, I'm just not holding my breathe.  There is a risk of IS, pardon my french,  shitting the bed by trying to hedge their bets and trying to please everyone, Fire Emblem fans that like FE4 and fans that dislike FE4.  Everyone should question how and what they think, especially about silly things like video games and entertainment, I just see the pitfalls in this situation.

  • Maybe Nintendo is going for a more mature audience, I remember when they did that frequently and did a good job of it.  They just vacillate from that to what they see as a safer audience, kids and mature content can turn off the audiences that buy for them.
  • Nyx's character is pretty well hidden behind the support system, reading all of them gives her a sense of loneliness that makes sense for an older person in a young person's world, but those aren't her main interactions with the avatar or in the story, her main impression is that's she's old, really old and also sexualized, very sexualized.  
  • FE4 just feels a lot different from main line Fire Emblem does now more so than Gaiden does (I know this sounds strange but really look at it).  Yeah, they took the kid mechanic from Fe4 and used it for better or worse in FE 13/14, but the tight cast, the huge maps, yes huge, the very high stat caps and bases, the extreme emphasis on player phase, feels very different from what's been successful of late, like world maps and grinding, supports for most everyone, and enemy  phase emphasis linked with skills and pair-ups.
  • Gaiden's supports are endearing (I did say that), but there isn't the the whole loaded problem of love mechanics anywhere in Gaiden, but Fe4 is already coming in with that smoking gun pre-loaded.  How are they going to deal with this, what interactions are they going to make, is no supports despite pairing up alright? I don't know what IS thinks about this, how they handle it will be telling.  The thing about the Clair, Gray, Tobin triangle is that the Gray-Clair pairing is already cannon from Fe2 and they have a sort of chemistry of 'snotty', stand-offish noble and commoner who really pursues her, and Tobin never directly interacts with her, rather he talks to Gray, a person with whom he has a deep personal connection, they've been friends their whole lives, lots to connect around here; it feels natural, not forced.
  • Nintendo/IS aren't stupid, they know thousands of westerners have played the game on Roms, hardcore fans have a connection to the game. FE4 has 10 characters, basically on pace with SS's 9, yeah Fe4 never got localized, but people have been introduced to these characters in Awakening, where lots of Fe4 characters got spot-passes, I imagine that peaked interest in Western fans who were curious about them, thus why they make sense in Heroes.
  • IS has always cared about the west, they like money and ours is as green as anyone's.  They don't think 'let's make an awful game', they think, 'hmm this might come off as too.... serious or mature or unpleasant or grating, let's brush over this and simplify it, making it nicer'.
  • This I think is a mildly dangerous way of thinking, yeah if they bomb, sure we have the old game, but talk about a slap-in-the-face to fans of Fe4 and talk about a huge turn-off to new fans and a way to keep people from playing a game you and I both enjoy.  I want every FE fan to play Fe4, I really enjoy it and I think many/most of them will too, but if they, once again pardon my French, shit the bed, how would I convince anyone to play the 20+ year old game when they just made a horrible remake, talk about a no-go.

Nintendo's earned a lot of good will with me lately, so I'm starting to slide to the side of optimism. It may bite me in the ass, but it feels nice to think about what might be that makes me excited, as opposed to... like, everything since the Wii coming from Nintendo putting a chip on my shoulder. I do think Nintendo is moving in the right direction compared to their last decade or so, and I think they're seeing their newer "Our games are for all types of people, not just children and the elderly" philosophy pay off, so this gives me hope that they may stay on this track by the time an FE4 remake becomes a real possibility.

I'm gonna try to wrap my head around where Nintendo's at right now, which is where a lot of my optimism comes from.

To break down:

This is a NEW mentality for them. The N64 had them actively relish in more mature/hardcore content, with Conker, to this day, being their ONLY M rated first party game(Which retroactively became M$'s first party game, but that's a different story), and Rare's games in general being a bit more... "daring" than other typical Nintendo games. We also got Majora's Mask, which is still far and away the darkest Zelda game, and probably the darkest game to come out of Nintendo in general outside of the Jugdral games.

They lost a lot of this when they lost Rare, but they still had adult-oriented third party support throughout the N64 and more-so the Gamecube's lifetime. They had a strong line-up of M-rated exclusives on the Gamecube. Eternal Darkness is an M rated exclusive, Resident Evil 0, 4 and REmake were exclusive third party games that weren't intended to make it off the Gamecube when they first released. They also did Twilight Princess and the Prime games on the GameCube, which went with the most moody, atmospheric approach. And these games were all HUGE selling points for Nintendo in the GameCube days.

Come the Wii, and they shifted their marketing strategy completely. Outside of Metroid Prime 3, I can't think of any first party games designed for the Wii(Twilight Princess doesn't count. That was clearly a GameCube game that they slapped motion controls onto) that weren't bright and bubbly for the whole family, and the Wii was sold as this motion-control system meant for party games that the whole family could enjoy. You did get games like MadWorld and No More Heroes, but those only ended up being as notable as they are simply because they were solid games in a sea of shovelware that flooded the Wii because it sold like hotcakes. And while they were solid games that did well, they weren't premier and advertised like how Nintendo treated Eternal Darkness and Resident Evil on the GC. I remember advertising for those games being pretty damn scant in comparison so shit like Wii Party, while Resident Evil 0 and Resident Evil 4 were total system sellers on the GC.

The Wii U became a weird extension of the Wii's marketing, but Nintendo thought it'd be a good idea to finally wrangle in third parties and get in some more adult oriented games. ZombiU was a launch game, and Bayonetta 2 became a selling point, but Nintendo was still advertising the Wii U as this the Wii 2! Grandma and grandpa will still love it, and little Billy can still play his baby games! I think this backfired horribly on Nintendo.

Now that the Switch is here, they still seem to have the mindset that they need third parties and core games(Which, for better or worse, tend to be aimed at older audiences), but they're advertising to the right audience for that. They made a darker Zelda game again(In tone, not necessarily in visuals and atmosphere like Twilight Princess), and Bethesda's support was one of the very first things revealed, with the release of Doom and Skyrim being first year goals for Nintendo. And Nintendo clearly seems to want to continue in this direction.

So yeah. That's at least why I'm optimistic that they'll keep the more controversial elements of FE4/5 in those games. I can do without the series of scenes where Lene is traumatized by... something the sexually aggressive Bramsel does to her while she's in his castle. I get it, rape/attempted rape is a thing, it probably happened a lot in the dark ages, but I don't need to see it happen to an innocent 15 year old girl in a video game, especially since Bramsel is really only memorable BECAUSE he does this.

If anything, my main doubts come from NoA. I feel like they're generally behind the times with Nintendo's directions. If Genealogy gets butchered in the west, I'm gonna guess it will be on them.

As for controversial GAMEPLAY elements? Not sure. I'm split on them myself, so the optimist in me doesn't know what to feel or what to expect.

Edited by Slumber

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On 11/29/2017 at 12:52 AM, DoseofDhillon said:

Okay, so i wrote a really long thing but it got erased, so let me give you a short form, Its gonna be a bit more blunt then i intend it to be, but i want to just see if i can change a bit how you think about this

  • First, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE FE 4 MANGA TRANSLATION YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST, DON'T WANNA SOUND LIKE A ASS, BUT PLZ MORE… if not just relase the raw scans
  • You seem to be to hung up on Awakening, i trust the people that did awakening since, A, Echoes was done by them and it was really well, B they did Nier which are much darker then FE 4, so its not them i worry about, its nintendo
  • IS cares a lot more about the west now, the investors meeting they highlighted how well Heroes was doing in the west, also notice how in seasonal units they choose characters that have been in japan and the west. CYL events in the past would have been a Japanese magazine popularity poll, now they look for international feed back
  • IS stood very loyal to FE 2, because they cared about that game, if they put like 75% of the heart they had in Echoes like they could for a FE 4 remake, i think they'll be very loyal, and i think Nintend will allow this
  • Media has shifted and nintendo as a company as shifted, although not perfect they still allow mention of bastards and people sleeping around in warriors, they also shift there target audience for the switch drastically if you see what there saying and how they advertise there products. There the number one concern, but with media like Game of Thrones being the most popular thing on American television, that can't hurt FE 4 chances of being loyal
  • Supports don't Have to be worst case like how i think your thinking. I really do think FE 4 would do well with supports. Echoes did fine, as supports were more of a side thing. For a remake, wouldn't't a conversation or support for like Lachesis and Sigurd be so cool? If you recall in FE 11, there were no supports, so once you get to something like Michalis, it had been 13 chapter since his name was even spoken, plus its right after Camus. If there were Minerva supports like in 12 to flesh out the Macedon plot, i think it could really help Michalis impact when you see him be more then a "Oh yeah this guy" Same story for FE
  • Also in remakes for FE 12 and Echoes supports are awesome and don't take away from the core story at all, The writings loyal and great in that game
  • IS i think does care about FE 4, they gave FE 4 a lot of stuff in heroes. Sure they could have given it to us earlier, but then you run the risk of FE 4 being overshadowed by the well known character in Bikinis and bunny outfits overshadowing them. Instead they threw them in with the dancers, and even then FE 4 became a huuuugggeee deal to them
  • Overall i think your too caught up on Awakening/Fates to see the recent improvements of the last even 6-12 months with the series. I want a "not pulling punches" type FE 4 remake, and you know what? i believe we'll get it. Nintendo slowly going to a more hardcore audience, FE 4 doesn't have Awakening tone issues so it'll have a consistent one, the series has evolved into a international brand, and IS does care about the west a lot more then i think you give them credit for (The Dorcas Memes got into heroes for Petes sake) and Echoes already experimenting with darker themes. Although Fates wasn't handled well, Leon and other things in that game were handled really fucking well by the fans. Hell in the heroes reddit they handle the Taltiu story extremely fucking well once they learned about it. 
  • Also your forgetting, there is such thing as a M rating, will we get it? I'd give it a low chance, but fuck, if IS is gonna do it with any game, its FE fucking 4.
  • NOW GET THE PEOPLE WHO LIKE ARE THE TRANSLATERS FOR THE MANGA  AND TRANSLATE THE PLZ….or link me the raws, I NEED MORE

Removed stuff that I didn't reply to in the quote for space saving. ...Didn't save much but.

The manga is on hold because irl issues are in the way for most of the team right now and we don't have the time to commit to one chapter a month. It'll be back. We're just busy right now. Also please don't ask for raws because it puts stress on me that I really don't want. If everyone else has to wait, anyone else can be patient with them. It's not easy and fast work (unless we want to release it in shit quality which we don't want to and don't do).

I'm not hung up on Awakening so I'm not sure what you mean by that. The localized names of course made me want to jump out a window but that's another matter. At least Lachesis got saved.

My issue with seasonal units in Heroes is that it's always 3DS except two characters in a single banner. For many, many people, it's highly annoying and aggravating. Believe me, I've seen massive complaints. Plenty of characters are out in the West and Japan - not just two or three games.

As I mentioned for FE2, there wasn't much to mess up story wise. That's the other big issue. If they mess up gameplay, they might get characters right and vice versa. But you know, the one character I can't get out of my head is Holsety. If they messed him up I'm flying first class to IS HQ for a fight.

Wasn't Warriors made by a different team than the norm though? Game of Thrones would be nice to go by, because you can't really mess up FE4 under that situation - hell, they're practically the same thing - one just has ice zombies. Still has to do with snowy places and dragons in relation so hey. But that doesn't mean Nintendo is cool with that tbh so I dunno.

The problem with FE12 is that well... it went over horribly. And it was a pretty big insult to Kaga. Not only does he not like difficulty settings, but he doesn't believe in a MU. What did they do? Remade his best seller with both. Then it flunked. That's a big fear I have for FE4. I don't know that they won't make that mistake again. Two out of three remakes almost caused FE to be a sunken ship, so imo it's a very valid concern for both the producers and the fandom. Japan is also preferable to FE4 - it's their favorite according to a recent poll. If they remake it badly, well... they risk angering their biggest group of fans for that game. They'd still have to be careful. Also, fact is, it's pretty clear IS avoids Jugdral as much as they can, if Heroes and Warriors is no indication. Cipher has everything and it's took until set eight to even have FE4 one time. Basically, I'm hella skeptical.

My main concern with supports is again, ruining anything. It's just a fear of mine. If Kaga wrote it, fine - those are his characters. If not, well... re: skeptical.

We only got as much FE4 as anything else. Lately it's been a new banner and a TT and a GHB. That was actually pretty standard for what they wanted to do at the time. Even then, we're going through all of 2017 without Leaf/an FE5 specific banner (still stuck at two characters who came out WICKED early in so it's been forever) if it can't get in because of a Christmas/holiday banner.

Regarding Dorcas, I checked his Japanese quotes and the whole mutton meme wasn't there. It was an English reference, but left out of the line in JP. They do acknowledge the West, but imo even they do, that's an even greater fear because I really don't want FE4 remade. Unfortunately as much as I understand you want it and want to change my mind, this is a topic I've never budged on for quite some time.

Again, I'm not hung on Awakening (or Fates). My opinions on Gaiden are the way they are because Gaiden wasn't as... established? as FE4. Also, tbh, Faye was taken, uh, pretty poorly by the fandom. New characters in FE4 with creepy yandere stereotypes and poorly written? No. Please. I couldn't even live with myself.

Also, FE was never rated M, so... that would be a stretch for them. That changes their target audience entirely, and some people won't pick it up.

Please don't rush my translators. One of them is extremely busy and is a manager at work. The other has every right to wait for us while we our get our shit together. I know you might mean it as a joke, but we've got some serious stuff going on. Also, they can't translate what they don't have because I haven't scanned all the fifty+ books I own. They also probably couldn't work that fast even if they wanted to. Re: life. Translating manga and having it worked on by the whole team isn't the speediest process. It's easier to explain when you understand the ins of manga scanlation.

 

On 11/30/2017 at 6:04 AM, Zasplach said:

Let me preface this by saying, I think that your hope for a potential FE4 remake is refreshing and as a cynic I tend to see the worst possibilities, just the way I am.  I hope they remake it and do a great job, I'm just not holding my breathe.  There is a risk of IS, pardon my french,  shitting the bed by trying to hedge their bets and trying to please everyone, Fire Emblem fans that like FE4 and fans that dislike FE4.  Everyone should question how and what they think, especially about silly things like video games and entertainment, I just see the pitfalls in this situation.

  • Maybe Nintendo is going for a more mature audience, I remember when they did that frequently and did a good job of it.  They just vacillate from that to what they see as a safer audience, kids and mature content can turn off the audiences that buy for them.
  • Nyx's character is pretty well hidden behind the support system, reading all of them gives her a sense of loneliness that makes sense for an older person in a young person's world, but those aren't her main interactions with the avatar or in the story, her main impression is that's she's old, really old and also sexualized, very sexualized.  
  • FE4 just feels a lot different from main line Fire Emblem does now more so than Gaiden does (I know this sounds strange but really look at it).  Yeah, they took the kid mechanic from Fe4 and used it for better or worse in FE 13/14, but the tight cast, the huge maps, yes huge, the very high stat caps and bases, the extreme emphasis on player phase, feels very different from what's been successful of late, like world maps and grinding, supports for most everyone, and enemy  phase emphasis linked with skills and pair-ups.
  • Gaiden's supports are endearing (I did say that), but there isn't the the whole loaded problem of love mechanics anywhere in Gaiden, but Fe4 is already coming in with that smoking gun pre-loaded.  How are they going to deal with this, what interactions are they going to make, is no supports despite pairing up alright? I don't know what IS thinks about this, how they handle it will be telling.  The thing about the Clair, Gray, Tobin triangle is that the Gray-Clair pairing is already cannon from Fe2 and they have a sort of chemistry of 'snotty', stand-offish noble and commoner who really pursues her, and Tobin never directly interacts with her, rather he talks to Gray, a person with whom he has a deep personal connection, they've been friends their whole lives, lots to connect around here; it feels natural, not forced.
  • Nintendo/IS aren't stupid, they know thousands of westerners have played the game on Roms, hardcore fans have a connection to the game. FE4 has 10 characters, basically on pace with SS's 9, yeah Fe4 never got localized, but people have been introduced to these characters in Awakening, where lots of Fe4 characters got spot-passes, I imagine that peaked interest in Western fans who were curious about them, thus why they make sense in Heroes.
  • IS has always cared about the west, they like money and ours is as green as anyone's.  They don't think 'let's make an awful game', they think, 'hmm this might come off as too.... serious or mature or unpleasant or grating, let's brush over this and simplify it, making it nicer'.
  • This I think is a mildly dangerous way of thinking, yeah if they bomb, sure we have the old game, but talk about a slap-in-the-face to fans of Fe4 and talk about a huge turn-off to new fans and a way to keep people from playing a game you and I both enjoy.  I want every FE fan to play Fe4, I really enjoy it and I think many/most of them will too, but if they, once again pardon my French, shit the bed, how would I convince anyone to play the 20+ year old game when they just made a horrible remake, talk about a no-go.

I agree with both this post and the one you tagged me in. Gaiden was too barebones and that's what I'm trying to get at here.FE4 has way more controversy beyond just Tiltyu being abused. And sweet jesus I do NOT trust the kids these days with FE4 and incest. I've been proven right that they can't handle it maturely as it is, even without a remake. I see stuff like "take the obvious incest out or write it differently" and it's like... hello? Did you miss the point??? Apparently. I can't handle people wanting to babied over a video game that's literally full of controversial and/or dark themes.  That's one big thing that riles me up: the fandom being shit about it.

Also Kaga went way out there with FE4. He didn't make it to please people or for fanservice. He did it to fulfill his imagination. That's the big problem and difference. IS just pleases fans for money. Kaga didn't go for that. Surprise, they suddenly don't like each other. Remaking a game like that while being spiteful of the guy who made it, well... I just can't see things going well. If they try to please fans and make everyone happy, they'll just mess it up. IS tries too hard to be a people pleaser and FE4 isn't meant for that.

The phases and difficult are definitely an issue. If they make a remake and make the game too easy, I'll be so pissed. They gave us Phoenix Mode for fuck's sake because FE14 CAN be kinda hard. Imagine what they'd do to FE4 for being so hard for newcomers to the game. The difficulty matches the story.

Supports weren't in either game originally, but Gaiden had NOTHING. FE4 did have various talk scenes and lover conversations. It had quite a lot, and in every chapter. Gaiden would have suffered in the character department without supports for a remake. FE4 wouldn't suffer at all without supports since it had bulk in character development and conversations.

Regarding money, that's exactly it. They'll do what makes them money. If they suspect FE4 won't make them the money they want, they'll tweak anything to make the money. That's why I don't trust IS/Nintendo. I'm on Kaga's side because I agree with his perspective on game creation. And look at the results. It worked. For all the shit IS seems to have given him and did give him that we know of, his games were the most successful in Japan and FE4 is still the most loved. It wasn't released worldwide, so of course in total its sales are outdone by Awakening/Fates, but in Japan? Awakening and Fates couldn't beat FE4 or FE3. For FE3, fact is, the original still did better than the remake. The point of a remake is to be better than the original and more updated. Sure, they tried with FE3, but they failed; badly. If the originals are better than the "supposed to be better and more modern", then the point of the remake failed. And well, remember when FE as a franchise almost went down? I don't think FE4 would cause that much of an extreme, and I know it wouldn't, but after Tellius flunked, they tried to remake the top seller in Japan, and that still didn't work at all. They tried to cater more to modern things and fanservice, and look where it got them. I understand Gaiden did well, but it was such a blank slate, and it's still two against one for remakes. It IS possible the Switch FE will be darker and more like FE4 just to see if a remake would work well, but of course we can't say that for sure at this point.

At your last point, EXACTLY. I'm afraid of success because the current generation behind my own clearly can't handle FE4 as it is. If it gets remade and doesn't end up successful, ouch. As it is people don't want to play the game because "it's too old and different", etc. If the remake flunks, who is gonna care about it? Old fans sure. New fans? Ehhhh.

Regarding your other post you tagged me in, with Fates, yeah. The darkest thing I can find is Takumi, but he's also written extremely well (though obviously not a remake character). The depression and suicide make him dark, and believe me when I say I relate to him so much with those aspects. Unfortunately Fates itself lacks enough consequence for Kamui's actions. Sigurd did the same things Kamui did, and Sigurd died for his kindness and naivete - killed by someone kind and naive who later ended up killed for being kind and naive (naive as in he admits he didn't realize Manfloy was just using him until it was too late). FE4 has serious consequence. Fates' consequence really doesn't even get close.

About FE4 not planned to be FE, it's in the information areas of this site. You could find it if you looked around.

The only reason Jugdral has more than Magvel now is because Jugdral had four units come out prior to the big FE4 banner release. Also, it's worth noting two of those Jugdral units came out WITH thsoe of those Magvel units. They weren't doing banner/GHB/TT together yet by Magvel, so that's why FE4 outdid it with Reinhardt and Olwen around. Reminder we STILL don't have Leaf in the game and he's a lord unit in FE5. Talk about a fucking slap to the face.

My main worry with relationships is that they could try to force in blatant bisexuality. They could easily try too hard with characters who have a version of themselves already. Leo in Gaiden? He didn't really have much to go on. Nobody did. 

Also sweet jesus the amount of Holsety hate could increase tenfold and I'm going to have to seal off my house from the outside world. Mfw people can't handle good writing and a complex dragon character and refuse to accept the good writing because BAW NEGLECT even though he was never actually obligated to raise any of Levin's children and didn't even have to do a fraction of what he even did because he ain't even Levin. :)))) But that's a story for another time. :))))
Also Alvis hate. I've sen my fair share. Like him, I am tired.

But yeah. I don't want a remake. Voices would be nice and lines and stuff but then Heroes is a thing so that's now pretty invalid anyway.

(Also thanks for being so understanding about the scan team stuff Zas! It means a lot!)

Edited by Jugdral Defender

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On 12/4/2017 at 2:29 PM, Jugdral Defender said:

Also sweet jesus the amount of Holsety hate could increase tenfold and I'm going to have to seal off my house from the outside world. Mfw people can't handle good writing and a complex dragon character and refuse to accept the good writing because BAW NEGLECT even though he was never actually obligated to raise any of Levin's children and didn't even have to do a fraction of what he even did because he ain't even Levin. :)))) But that's a story for another time. :))))

Why people hate Forced? I don't understand.

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