General Jarod was actually a great antagonist

[Interdimensional Observer]

On 10/5/2017 at 8:12 PM, vanguard333 said:

I think that's called gameplay and story segregation. Besides, those priests are there, on the battlefield, and, if promoted, then they are fighting. I think the swords only don't kill those who refuse to even try to defend themselves.

 

I don't believe this. The BK's failure to kill Ena in PoR was done for dramatic effect- well letting her be struck was, letting her live was done for story. It adds to Ike's reasons to win against the BK, not only will he avenge his father's murder and help Crimea win its war against Ashnard, he'll save Ena from death. If Ragnell and Alondite couldn't kill the innocent, then I'd think we'd see more of this since story writers don't add properties to their weapons and other devices without some greater reason behind it. What greater reason is there for Ragnell and Alondite being unable to kill the defenseless?

All you have to go on is that once instance of Ena and the Jarod line, neither of which must be interpreted as you suggest. The BK is merciful as Zelgius, so mercy is in his underlying character and he could have simply been honoring Alder's sacrifice since he likes a loyal soldier (he was certainly not pitying Jarod). Ena, again, the blow was for dramatic effect, nothing more.

Ashera had no qualms petrifying all of the Beorc and Laguz, including countless innocents who had nothing to do with the breaking of the seal on Lehran's Medallion. So much for her being merciful. If Ashera had bestowed can't-kill-innocent blessings on her swords she gave her greatest Beorc warrior, then shouldn't that be reflected in how she in her ultimate judgement treats others? As it stands, she "killed" thousands if not millions, and would have let them really die had not the heroes stopped her.

[Dark Holy Elf]

To add to this, Zelgius kills Lotz (Leanne's hawk companion) while he is totally defenceless, presumably with Alondite. He's clearly capable of killing innocents when expediency demands it, as is his sword.

[vanguard333]

Okay; it was just my theory, and how I interpreted it when I first looked back on the two games. I did not say it had to be the only way to interpret it. Thanks for pointing out these holes in that theory (I mean that sincerely).

23 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

To add to this, Zelgius kills Lotz (Leanne's hawk companion) while he is totally defenceless, presumably with Alondite. He's clearly capable of killing innocents when expediency demands it, as is his sword.

I will say that there is a difference between Lotz's case and Ena and Jarod's. Lotz was ambushed and killed, and was not presented an opportunity to defend himself, which I know is arguably way worse, but please bear with me, if that's the right expression. By contrast, Ena and Jarod both are presented an opportunity, and don't even bother; instead both just asking that it be made quick. I'm not saying that the sword won't kill the defenceless; I'm saying it won't kill those who, when presented with the fact that they're going to be killed, don't even try to defend themselves, if that makes sense. He says, "My sword is not made for those who will not raise their weapons", he doesn't say he won't kill those who cannot defend themselves, he says the sword will not kill those who will not defend themselves.

In a way, this also applies to when Ashera turns everyone to stone. She is perfectly fine with turning everyone to stone, but will not grant Sephiran the death he's practically been asking for, even though she said she would punish him if Laguz and Beorc failed to keep the peace for 1,000 years. She will kill those who can't defend themselves, but doesn't kill the one who won't.

Edited October 8, 2017 by vanguard333

[Interdimensional Observer]

9 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

In a way, this also applies to when Ashera turns everyone to stone. She is perfectly fine with turning everyone to stone, but will not grant Sephiran the death he's practically been asking for, even though she said she would punish him if Laguz and Beorc failed to keep the peace for 1,000 years. She will kill those who can't defend themselves, but doesn't kill the one who won't.

Sephiran isn't killed not because Ashera won't (though she won't if you try attacking her if you have him do it), but because Sephiran is special. Sephiran is her most loyal servant, who is so blessed by her that he still lives ~1000 after RD despite Ashera having been in coma that whole time, and despite the fact he should be many times dead judging from a Heron's expected lifespan. Sephiran was spared only because in Ashera's eyes, he is worthy of the highest trust and not like the chaotic rabble at all, he is beyond them.

Sephiran can only die by force or if the Goddess is willing to grant him that reprieve. And I don't think Sephiran tells Ashera when she wakes up his suicidal desire or everything he has seen which has made him despair. Ashera acts not because she sees the depths of Sephiran's heart, but because the Medallion seal broke she thought, and Sephiran said it was in his opinion that the world could not be saved in the remaining time until her natural wake up. That is all she bases her judgement on. Ashera is herself manipulated by her own highest servant.

As for punishment. Eradicating all of the Laguz and Beorc is punishment enough if you ask me. Everyone you're related to, know and love, gone.

 

Note that even if you make a fool's move and have Reyson/Leanne/Rafiel use a Card to attack Ashera, she won't respond to them. The Herons on the whole are so Orderly that she sees them as savable even in the worse conditions. The Dragons might have survived the first judgement for the same reason, even if she planned to get rid of them on the second judgement which is what is implied. Micaiah too is strangely on Ashera's do not attack list, but I guess that's explicable given she is the True Apostle and keenly aligned with Order; Mist isn't Orderly enough I guess.

 

Dissecting Tellius is my thing, in case you can't tell. Can't do it with Archanea, Jugdral. Elibe, Awakening, Fates or SoV so much, but with Tellius I can.

[vanguard333]

Thank you again, though I disagree that she sees him that highly. At one time, she obviously did. But she wakes up from her long coma, and the first thing he does is basically tell her that he failed. It was him who suggested the 1,000 year coma in the first place, and him who she said she would punish most severely if the 1,000 year sleep turned out to be for naught. Yes, she herself is being manipulated by Lehran, but he did fail. So she punishes him by... letting him live, when, supposedly completely coincidently, he wants to die.

To be fair, I wasn't saying that him still being alive had anything to do with her intentiions; I was just trying to point out an interesting parallel that I noticed when you brought up Ashera. He was the only one who knew that her judgement was about to come, and he was the one who wanted it to happen to him; he was wanting to die the whole time. Yet he is the one that doesn't get turned to stone. The others either are spared by Yune, or reanimated later, or, in the case of the dragons, she knew they would help her because of Dheginsea (if I spelled his name correctly; it's been a while since I played the games). 

[Icelerate]

On 10/6/2017 at 12:11 PM, Noni said:

What was he supposed to do? How was he supposed to figure out, that Ashera was lying to him, when she seemed to signal him, that he was her chosen champion. Even if he was able to figure out, that he was too much of a douchebag for a goddess to choose him(And I don't think, he had that much self-awareness and just thought, whatever he did for himself, was also, what the goddess wanted), what was he supposed to do about it?

1

I'm not saying his actions in part 4 didn't make sense but I prefer the political conflict of parts 1-3 as opposed to the divine conflict of part 4 and end game. The Senators were no longer the sinister villains in part 4 as they were in part 3 but it makes sense that Ashera would take over the plot. Much like Yune becoming more important than Micaiah because obviously, the goddess would be more important than a mere apostle.  

[Noni]

I don't see, how the Conflict between us and Lekain changes much between Part 3 and 4. He has still the same racist, narcissistic Views as before, but now a Goddess is validating them. Okay, it becomes clearer in Part 4, that he isn't the one pulling the strings, but I wouldn't want him pulling the strings, just like I wouldn't like Darin or Chagall as the ultimate puppeteers of their Games.