Special Heroes: Performing Arts

[Othin]

4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Amiti's penalties are exactly the same, but Amiti has Speed +3 as a passive skill on top of that. We have exactly one precedent for a Brave unique weapon, which is drastically different from any other type of unique weapon, which is not enough to determine how its effects are weighted. We know it was made stronger in a relative stats sense compared to Dire Thunder, but we don't have the information to attribute why it was made stronger specifically to the existence of the CYL weapons.

 

Actually, it is. There has never been a strict rule of one second-tier skill for each weapon. In particular,

• Distant Counter is a tier-less skill
• Falchion and Naga have two separate effects, one of which is fully a second-tier skill
• Cursed Lance has the Killer weapon effect on top of a truncated Fury 2
• Vidofnir has Close Def 3.5 minus the breath weapon piece
• Dark Aura has Hone Atk 5 minus ranged weapons
• Ragnarok has who-knows-how-that-translates-in-terms-of-skill-tiers

and all of these weapons have existed before CYL weapons existed.

+3 to a stat on top of being an already-reasonable legendary weapon is exactly what the CYL weapons did.

I didn't say there was a strict rule of one second-tier skill. Some of the translations are a bit fuzzy, but aside from the dragon-slaying effect as a bonus, no pre-CYL legendary weapons have a passive effect that's strictly better than something you could get from a second-tier skill.

[Ice Dragon]

6 minutes ago, Othin said:

no pre-CYL legendary weapons have a passive effect that's strictly better than something you could get from a second-tier skill.

If you want me to be completely pedantic, Deathly Dagger's additional effect is strictly better than a second-tier skill.

• Poison Strike 2 deals 7 damage to the opponent if the user initiates combat, but does not activate if the user is dead after combat.
• Deathly Dagger's additional effect deals 7 damage to the opponent if the user initiates combat and still activates if the user is dead after combat. (I'm not sure if it still activates if you get killed by Vantage, though, but Poison Strike wouldn't have activated in that case either.)

[Othin]

30 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

If you want me to be completely pedantic, Deathly Dagger's additional effect is strictly better than a second-tier skill.

• Poison Strike 2 deals 7 damage to the opponent if the user initiates combat, but does not activate if the user is dead after combat.
• Deathly Dagger's additional effect deals 7 damage to the opponent if the user initiates combat and still activates if the user is dead after combat. (I'm not sure if it still activates if you get killed by Vantage, though, but Poison Strike wouldn't have activated in that case either.)

Okay, sure, I'll rephrase. They're not strictly better than the expected effect of translating a second-tier skill to a weapon-tied version, with the minor benefits that can cause in certain cases.

My point is, Amiti and Urdhr would have been made weaker than the way they ended up if they were released before CYL.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Othin

[DefyingFates]

What do you think is a better tome for the mages if I said I wanted one for an infantry Bladetome team, -blade or -raven?

Thanks in advance!

[MidCottonWood86]

5 hours ago, Anacybele said:

...This isn't Halloween. What the hell, IS? I am legitimately pissed. I know Japan does Halloween and I wanted awesome Halloween costumes, and I'm sure a majority of fans wanted that too. Everybody was expecting it as far as I could tell. I expected it too after the Halloween DLC for Fates and the Halloween Cipher cards. I hope you're prepared not to make much money here, IS. Pretty sure practically no one wants these units.

Not pulling on this banner. Not even the free pull. I don't want any of these at all nor do I want to risk getting one. I'd just send them home for feathers. Don't even like the outfits anyway. Also, you call Shigure the "sky singer" but don't even put him on a Pegasus? What, you think it would make flier teams too OP? You were fine with making horses super strong...

 You do you, but you have to at least have to give them credit for trying to do something other than the obvious Halloween banner. The units seem good but not too broken. (Besides maybe Azura) So don't get too pissed off for them trying to do something that isn't obvious. They just wanted to so something unique like the Bridal character banner where it isn't for a specific time and unpredictable, as I said before. 

Plus, we already have the Headless Horseman Eldigan so it's all good.

Then again no matter what I say I probably won't change your view at all. 

[Lushen]

33 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

What do you think is a better tome for the mages if I said I wanted one for an infantry Bladetome team, -blade or -raven?

Thanks in advance!

By infantry bladetome team do you mean 4 blade users?  Idk why you would want 4 of them. 

In general, it depends.  Blade is better overall but considering dancers are mean to well...dance, I would prefer Raven so I can use them as an emergency weapon rather than damage given that they are meant to be used as support units most of the time.  If you want a damage dealing mage, you'd probably want to dance that mage rather than have a damage dealing dancer that never dances and can't be danced.  Really I think their current weapon is fine.  Ninian has like 1000sp despite being used more than any other unit in my game.  This is because she dances all the time and is rarely used to kill things.

 

 

Also,

There's no definitive evidence that there won't be a halloween banner.
I'm more concerned with the fact that we get yet another fates/awakening banner
I'm also more concerned with the fact that we have a four dancers special banner.  Does this mean every year we will have 4 special unit dancers? 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Lushen

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, Othin said:

My point is, Amiti and Azura's weapon would have been made weaker than the way they ended up if they were released before CYL.

My point is: We have three data points and there's nothing conclusive, especially considering that the developers have been getting extremely creative with their recent unique weapons.

I think the developers are just getting better at realizing what kind of weapon effects are completely useless on unique weapons.

 

Addressing the actual usefulness of Urdhr's effect, Blaze Dance, Gale Dance, and Geyser Dance are useful on their own because you can pick the one that most helps your team composition out. For example, if your team uses two Hone Atk and two Hone Spd, you can choose to use Geyser Dance to cover the remaining stats on a single unit. My infantry teams, which typically consist exclusively of Hone Spd, would benefit greatly from Blaze Dance (as would my dragon team, which tends to struggle against high-Res opponents due to Lightning Breath's low Atk).

If Urdhr had only one of these effects, say Blaze Dance 2, the effect becomes nearly worthless if you are already running Hone Atk on half of your team.

Two effects is in a similar situation because one would expect a typical buff-oriented infantry team to use two different buffing skills. If Urdhr had Blaze Dance 2 and Gale Dance 2, it could cover cases where you couldn't get proper unit placement, but would otherwise be useless. If instead you changed your passive buffs to Fortify Def and Fortify Res (and why would you, considering they're weaker than Hone Atk and Hone Spd in a practical sense), you're now stuck with only one unit per turn having Atk and Spd buffs.

Giving Urdhr Geyser Dance 2 and one of the other skills also constrains the player. As previously mentioned, I use teams exclusively using Hone Spd, meaning Urdhr with Geyser Dance 2 and Gale Dance 2 would be no better than Urdhr with just Geyser Dance 2, which is pretty underwhelming.

To only way to make Urdhr relevant without forcing a particular buff composition is to give it all three.

[Xenomata]

14 minutes ago, Lushen said:

Also,

There's no definitive evidence that there won't be a halloween banner.
I'm more concerned with the fact that we get yet another fates/awakening banner
I'm also more concerned with the fact that we have a four dancers special banner.  Does this mean every year we will have 4 special unit dancers? 

If I can try to justify things, whenever we get new units who are added to the unit pool they are usually units from old games that don't have the same fame as Awakening and Fates. When we get these seasonal banners, the units are usually from Awakening and Fates, where the characters have already been exposed to being dress-up dolls in one way or another (Lucina's fashion sense has yet to be exploited to it's fullest degree I'd say). The only time the seasonals haven't been from Ylisse or Nohr are as follows: Bridal Blessings Caeda and Lyn. That is all.

[Lushen]

Just now, Xenomata said:

If I can try to justify things, whenever we get new units who are added to the unit pool they are usually units from old games that don't have the same fame as Awakening and Fates. When we get these seasonal banners, the units are usually from Awakening and Fates, where the characters have already been exposed to being dress-up dolls in one way or another (Lucina's fashion sense has yet to be exploited to it's fullest degree I'd say). The only time the seasonals haven't been from Ylisse or Nohr are as follows: Bridal Blessings Caeda and Lyn. That is all.

Yea and plenty of people went for Lyn, it's clear that people want these older units just as much.  It's like Reinhardt, no one knows who the hell he is but now everyone loves him because he's good.  Bridal Cordelia was the most loved unit in that banner, but likely not the most popular.  The popularity of characters don't really seem to have as significant of an impact on whether most people want them as how good they are.

And the only reason the regular banners have nonfates and nonawakening characters is because half the awakening/fates cast was released at game launch and there are a lot more games that aren't fates/awakening than games that are.  Fates/awakening still has the most units overall.

[Tenzen12]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Nohrian Ninian and Nils. I'm on board.

Nohrian bias In its finest. We deserve Joshua Ninian and Nils and you know it! 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Tenzen12

[Othin]

The base game learned heavily on Awakening/Fates characters, then most new post-launch characters were from other games. It's possible that by the same principle, they're giving Awakening/Fates priority for the first series of seasonal banners but then after the first year, future rounds of seasonal banners will change to having more of a focus on other games. Especially since they'll eventually run out of prominent Awakening/Fates characters, although Xander does show that duplicates are possible.

[Xenomata]

32 minutes ago, Lushen said:

Yea and plenty of people went for Lyn, it's clear that people want these older units just as much.  It's like Reinhardt, no one knows who the hell he is but now everyone loves him because he's good.  Bridal Cordelia was the most loved unit in that banner, but likely not the most popular.  The popularity of characters don't really seem to have as significant of an impact on whether most people want them as how good they are.

And the only reason the regular banners have nonfates and nonawakening characters is because half the awakening/fates cast was released at game launch and there are a lot more games that aren't fates/awakening than games that are.  Fates/awakening still has the most units overall.

Spoilering because it takes up too much room...

Spoiler

 

Remember that most of todays people probably didn't even know about Fire Emblem until one of two things happened:

• Smash Brothers introduced them to Marth, Roy, Ike, Robin, Lucina, Corrin, or Lyn.
• Following Nintendo and their general news introduced them to Awakening, Fates, Echoes, or Warriors

Their general knowledge of who is in FE will extend to Awakening, Fates, and not even a proper fraction of Blazing Blade, Shadow Dragon/Mystery of the Emblem, and Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn, even if taking into account trophies of FE characters in Smash. They don't know who Wrys, or Cain, or Matthew, or Florina are.

If you were to fetish outfit characters from your MASSIVE library of characters to choose from, and need to make money off your decision, who are you going to throw into a Halloween outfit, keeping in mind the ORIGINS of your audience.

If you introduce someone to a unit while they're playing the game, as they have in most of the new unit banners, wouldn't that have a chance to spark interest in who the character is? They have rereleased some of the old FEs on virtual console (in other countries), so it could work.

...anyways, the goodness of a unit. Lyn, in all 3 of her incarnations in Heroes... Hector is still more powerful. Her CYL incarnation in fact exists to counter units like Hector, he is even the one they show her attacking in the showcase. He probably still beats her.

Who are we asking if they like Hector more than Lyn exactly? Are we asking the general audience, who came in because their waifu is playable? Or are we asking people like us, who play the game to win?

Reinhardt, like you said, isn't even known until a person pulls him and uses him with Death Blow 3. Most people probably don't even realize he isn't actually a playable unit in Thracia 776, not until they look more into his character.

So who are we asking who is more popular than who? There is probably a reason why units now are being geared toward meta shifters.

 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Xenomata

[Alexmender]

I'm not too happy that people have started dissing Eirika just because the Nohrian Azura can buff stats AFTER a dance I'll burn them for not recognizing her as the best cheerleader to ever grace this game. The way N!Azura works is mostly to give a buff for enemy phase units who are quite short of reaching a good position to bait or units who want to go into the fray trying to kill every enemy unit (Bike?) while blade tome users appreciate having their buffs at the start of player phase to nuke one enemy and then be danced to either nuke a second unit or retreat to safety.

Either way I'm quite wary of the ranged dancers, going by BST they're going to be really low unless IS decides to give them some buffs which means they're going to be pretty bad for Arena offense but incredibly annoying on defense due to different move order. It seems next week arena is going to be awful pretty interesting.

[Arcanite]

6 hours ago, phineas81707 said:

I'm moreso complaining about the ignorant Americans who believe Thanksgiving is global enough for this. Doesn't help I don't know much about it.

It's not ignorance as much as "NO gacha experience whatsoever"
Every event so far is just regular gacha game stuff. It's very rare to see a thanksgiving event for a gacha game lol

6 hours ago, Anacybele said:

I'm just predicting IS is losing money on this banner

This definitely isn't likely LOL

Examine this from an objective/gameplay-based stand point

"This banner is placed in October, when everyone was expecting a "Halloween themed" banner. This banner is mainly themed around dancers instead. This banner has 4 dancers on it. The game went from having 3 dancers to 7 in one day. We now have two green dancers when we had 0. This banner is one month long, so people have a lot of time to pull from it. There is now at least one dancer for each color."

Consider:

1. We may still get a Halloween banner, so if IS does lose money on this banner (which they won't), there may still be a banner in the future to satisfy people like you :p

2. This banner has 4 dancers on it. People will spend money for dancers. Simply because, they may be weak, but for those just starting the game (and those who would like an extra dancer or 2 for Arena and Squad Assault (and Chain challenge), it is INCREDIBLY helpful

3. This banner also has 2 green units. Green is the best color to pull from on any banner with a green focus since green has the lowest 5 star pool, which increases your odds of getting the focus, since a chunk of percentage goes just to that color.

I know I'm responding to an old post but I just want you to see something good in this banner, just in case we don't get a Halloween banner after.... if you do decide to pull I hope you don't use them for fodder because having multiple dancers is a good advantage to have, and could really help with your progression in the game!

 

 

Some people were saying you complain a lot or whatever..... meh. I think it's okay to complain but don't say stuff like

7 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Pretty sure practically no one wants these units.

Which I can understand since people were expecting Halloween but.... FOUR DANCERS AT ONCE IS STILL CRAZYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

:pppppppppppppppPPPPPPPPPPP

 

 

 

Also

Is this banner really a month long?

Or am I dreaming?

[Clogon]

12 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

That shit is so badly designed it almost come on the level of Mega Beedrill

You do realize that Mega Beedrill was OU at one point, right?

Could they have made these skills better? Of course, but why would they need to make Dancers even better supports than they already are? Every one uses a Dancer. The skill itself doesn't need a buff and any unit with it will be amazing even if it did nothing but dance.

Are you that salty that they did not make these the be all end all of supports? Render Erika and Ephraim useless? Rally skills are already almost never used.

The new skills being on the B slot is impressive as that's where some of the best combat skills are. They allow dancers to act as both a dance or rally bot depending on the situation while normal Rally users have better stats and combat related B skills.

I fully agree that they could have made these delete all of the other support units and skills. I for one am glad they didn't. This gives Dancers more playstyle options instead of just straight up powercreep.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Clogon

[Xenomata]

24 minutes ago, Clogon said:

You do realize that Mega Beedrill was OU at one point, right?

Could they have made these skills better? Of course, but why would they need to make Dancers even better supports than they already are? Every one uses a Dancer. The skill itself doesn't need a buff and any unit with it will be amazing even if it did nothing but dance.

Are you that salty that they did not make these the be all end all of supports? Render Erika and Ephraim useless? Rally skills are already almost never used.

The new skills being on the B slot is impressive as that's where some of the best combat skills are. They allow dancers to act as both a dance or rally bot depending on the situation while normal Rally users have better stats and combat related B skills.

I fully agree that they could have made these delete all of the other support units and skills. I for one am glad they didn't. This gives Dancers more playstyle options instead of just straight up powercreep.

I take offense to MegaBeedrill being "bad design", but hey not your comment.

Anyways, the new Dancer skills in B slot I don't see making a difference. It requires you to drop Wings of Mercy/Escape Route on the dancer, which can be part of what makes a dancer so deadly. Azura is the best of the 4 in that regard, as she still provides a buff without dropping WoM or ER, but the new skills seem quite deadly anyways on teams who can't get the buff on the needed unit.

And Eirika/Ephraim will never die. Sieg twins 4 lyfe.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Xenomata

[Othin]

27 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

Also

Is this banner really a month long?

Or am I dreaming?

All recent seasonal banners have been, so it makes sense.

[Rinco]

There are some specific situations that New Azura's buffs are somewhat better than Eirika's. 

Like, if your Blade unit ends up in line of Panic Ploy with Eirika at the sides, you'll get massive debuffs. If it is New Azura, Blade unit can move and attack someone with neutral stats, then get danced + buffed to attack another one with more power.

I know that's just one case, and I don't think those units should be competing for the same spot on a team anyway. They could work really well together, acutally.

[Arcanite]

6 minutes ago, Othin said:

All recent seasonal banners have been, so it makes sense.

I know it makes sense, I was making a joke

Red is going to be the safe "Hey I don't want a banner unit so I'll pull you and back out since no greens appeared" for this one

Which means, I can potentially get me some fury fodder *maniacally rubs hands together*

[Xenomata]

2 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

I know it makes sense, I was making a joke

Red is going to be the safe "Hey I don't want a banner unit so I'll pull you and back out since no greens appeared" for this one

Which means, I can potentially get me some fury fodder *maniacally rubs hands together*

Actually that sounds extremely dangerous to do. There are a LOT of Reds that could appear at 5*... well, 5* reds that aren't any good or that I already have a lot of.

I think I'll only pull from Red orbs if they're the last one in a bunch of 5.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Xenomata

[Falcom]

I'm tempted to summon Olivia and Inigo but I think I'm gonna ultimately pass on this banner. I seriously need to start hoarding my orbs.

[Arcanite]

1 minute ago, Xenomata said:

Actually that sounds extremely dangerous to do. There are a LOT of Reds that could appear at 5*... well, 5* reds that aren't any good or that I already have a lot of.

Considering green is the color to pull, and Red has no one in on this banner, I'd rather have my rate crashed by a Ryoma than a Lachesis or a Catria :PPPPPppppppp

1 minute ago, Falcom said:

I'm tempted to summon Olivia and Inigo but I think I'm gonna ultimately pass on this banner. I seriously need to start hoarding my orbs.

Holy crap

I just saw your member title
How long has that been there?

also

You need this

You may not know it yet, but you need this banner in your life. Im secretly only pulling because I need gronnblade for my Cecilia

[Xenomata]

2 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

Considering green is the color to pull, and Red has no one in on this banner, I'd rather have my rate crashed by a Ryoma than a Lachesis or a Catria :PPPPPppppppp

 

HA. I'd rather Ryoma crash my pity rate to... but he won't, it'll be Alm... again.

[Arcanite]

1 minute ago, Xenomata said:

HA. I'd rather Ryoma crash my pity rate to... but he won't, it'll be Alm... again.

I have a +Spd Alm anyway so that works for me too

#IfYaCantBeatEmMergeEm

[MrSmokestack]

1 minute ago, Xenomata said:

HA. I'd rather Ryoma crash my pity rate to... but he won't, it'll be Alm... again.

Can I show you the +Spd Ryoma that paid me a visit when I was pulling during Blazing Shadows ;^)