FEW Support Compilation

[Arthur97]

20 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

It does indeed. But it also has the hilarious thing where Lyn says that Mark doesn't give orders by talking, but somehow is able to make them understand, which Robin questions if it was telepathy. XD

What a nice way of using the fact that Mark never talks, but is essentially in control of the actions performed. XD

Well, at least they added a twist and didn't have her insisting that Mark is Robin. I admit, that sounds kinda funny. Still wish there was a Lucina and Lyn support. For that matter, why doesn't Lucina support Chrom?

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Arthur97 said:

Well, at least they added a twist and didn't have her insisting that Mark is Robin. I admit, that sounds kinda funny. Still wish there was a Lucina and Lyn support. For that matter, why doesn't Lucina support Chrom?

Maybe cause there's enough about them? I'm more wondering why there couldn't be a Robin/Lucina. XP

But yeah, it's like Lyn made yet another reference that the player controls their actions, and just saying Mark somehow communicates with them silently. 

Edited September 30, 2017 by omegaxis1

[Azure Sen]

2 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Well, at least they added a twist and didn't have her insisting that Mark is Robin. I admit, that sounds kinda funny. Still wish there was a Lucina and Lyn support. For that matter, why doesn't Lucina support Chrom?

She does, it's just not on the main list for some reason. It was in the last or second to last dump Vincent did.

[Arthur97]

2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Maybe cause there's enough about them? I'm more wondering why there couldn't be a Robin/Lucina. XP

Honestly, with the way they did Robin here, I'm fine with that. I'd rather have them support characters outside their home game. Again though, I am pleasantly surprised by that Lyn support.

1 minute ago, Azure Sen said:

She does, it's just not on the main list for some reason. It was in the last or second to last dump Vincent did.

I think I heard that the Lucina Cordelia one was actually Chrom. Is that the case or does she have both. Kind curious as to what those two would talk about (don't tell me though!).

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Arthur97 said:

Honestly, with the way they did Robin here, I'm fine with that. I'd rather have them support characters outside their home game. Again though, I am pleasantly surprised by that Lyn support.

That's true. No need to think about that particular ship. Robin does have some really nice supports. I wanna read more about the one with Leo and how Robin beats him in tactical games. 

[Azure Sen]

4 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

I think I heard that the Lucina Cordelia one was actually Chrom. Is that the case or does she have both. Kind curious as to what those two would talk about (don't tell me though!).

I don't know how anyone could mistake the Chrom-Lucina one for another one, she calls him Father in it. I don't think the Chrom-Cordelia one was in the text dump, but that didn't seem to have all the supports anyway. I'll double-check.

EDIT: Lucina does have a bond convo with Cordelia, but that doesn't preclude Cordelia having one with Chrom as well.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Azure Sen

[Arthur97]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

That's true. No need to think about that particular ship. Robin does have some really nice supports. I wanna read more about the one with Leo and how Robin beats him in tactical games. 

Not entirely sure what you meant by your second sentence. Not sure I want to know.

1 minute ago, Azure Sen said:

I don't know how anyone could mistake the Chrom-Lucina one for another one, she calls him Father in it. I don't think the Chrom-Cordelia one was in the text dump, but that didn't seem to have all the supports anyway. I'll double-check.

I think it was just a case of the wrong name. Again though, I don't read them. I want to know who supports with who, but I still want to read/listen to them myself. I just wish I didn't have to wait another twenty days.

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Arthur97 said:

Not entirely sure what you meant by your second sentence. Not sure I want to know.

I meant Robin's support conversations in general with the other characters here. 

[Arthur97]

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I meant Robin's support conversations in general with the other characters here. 

Still confused, but I think it works better with other world characters is that they should not really know either Robin so it should not really change too much, but Chrom from a world with Male Robin, doesn't bat an eye at Female Robin just popping in. I  would probably have something to say if a female version of my best friend showed up.

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Arthur97 said:

Still confused, but I think it works better with other world characters is that they should not really know either Robin so it should not really change too much, but Chrom from a world with Male Robin, doesn't bat an eye at Female Robin just popping in. I  would probably have something to say if a female version of my best friend showed up.

Yeah, the gender policies are not quite fully grasped. Lyn always refers to Mark with "them" terms. 

[Arthur97]

Just now, omegaxis1 said:

Yeah, the gender policies are not quite fully grasped. Lyn always refers to Mark with "them" terms. 

It seems clear that they are two different Robins (and Corrins) but no one ever questions what would be a very strange circumstance. I get constraints and not wanting to record separate conversations, but I think they were handled poorly. Maybe Chrom is just that used to jumping dimensions after the Outrealms that he isn't even phased anymore.

[omegaxis1]

3 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

It seems clear that they are two different Robins (and Corrins) but no one ever questions what would be a very strange circumstance. I get constraints and not wanting to record separate conversations, but I think they were handled poorly. Maybe Chrom is just that used to jumping dimensions after the Outrealms that he isn't even phased anymore.

Isn't M!Corrin and F!Robin not part of the storyline? In that case, it would make sense.

[Arthur97]

4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Isn't M!Corrin and F!Robin not part of the storyline? In that case, it would make sense.

As far as I know neither show up which is why I stated Chrom as knowing Male Robin since they came from the same world unless they also trade out Female Robin's Chrom too. As a gameplay mechanic, I can deal with them sharing skills and levels, but the support thing is where continuity jumps the rails. 

[MitoRequiem]

If anyone happens to come across all of Marth's supports could you PM them to me on here or serenes discord? o: much appreciated

[Suicae]

Hey, so I was watching one of the playthroughs on Youtube, and at the end of the round, it (sometimes) shows two characters and a level up to C.

Is that for support conversations? Because if so, Sakura has one with Frederick and Leo.

But I don't know why Sakura and Leo would have a support chain since they had one in Fates. If someone wants to see what I'm talking about, then here.

 

Edit: And if you don't want to see my screencaps since they're pretty vague, I believe these were taken in chapter 17 on a playthrough.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Kobushi

[LoboKD001]

4 minutes ago, Kobushi said:

Hey, so I was watching one of the playthroughs on Youtube, and at the end of the round, it (sometimes) shows two characters and a level up to C.

Is that for support conversations? Because if so, Sakura has one with Frederick and Leo.

But I don't know why Sakura and Leo would have a support chain since they had one in Fates. If someone wants to see what I'm talking about, then here.

 

Edit: And if you don't want to see my screencaps since they're pretty vague, I believe these were taken in chapter 17 on a playthrough.

everyone can have a support level with everyone. it's just only some pairs have an actual convo. that's why i've been using the word convo than support. Sakura and leo can have Rank A support yes but they do not have a convo when reaching A.

[Nanima]

5 hours ago, The DanMan said:

 

...Completely ignoring how the official and fan translations have been so far 1:1.
You're just embarrassing yourselves. 8-4 was just as bad with Awakening and SoV, yet virtually nobody complained. Heck, 99% of the textual "differences" in Fates were things simply sounding less stilted/plain.

But of course. Pre-emptively bitch about non-issues.

Okay, first calm the heck down here. I really do not like your aggressive tone and condescending language here.

As someone who has spend the better part of a year translating Fates actual Japanese supports into English and comparing them with the official localization, I am going to say that I can make a very informed judgement of their overall quality. And okay, I might have been harsh here, many of Treehouse's translations are perfectly serviceable and I have said so before. There are also supports that are widely different and just have the most random changes made to them, not for the sake of getting across an untranslatable nuance of the original, but for the sake of humour or not any apparent reason at all. I have said before that they probably had different writing teams working on Fates, amd maybe it was wrong of me to immediately assume the worst, but I won't stand by being told I have no right to distrust them at all.

There are different approaches to translating something of course, but I am of the opinion to stick as close to the original as possible unless there really is no good way to translate something. That's when you make changes that carry the same or very close meaning as the original.

As for your claim of all the supports being 1:1 so far... Did you even read what I translated? Yes, the Takumi/Lissa support is 95% the same, not something to get particularly worked up about. But you did miss one important detail: The hair tie Lissa switched Takumi's for originally had a flower pattern. Treehouse felt it necessary to change it into having "Jerk" stitched into it. Sure that's a small detail, but I still have to ask... why? Was it necessary? Sure don't think so. Seems more like someone either had their own opinion of the character shine through or was trying to give a shout out to the fandom's opinion of him. Maybe they just thought it'd be funnier. Either way, I'd have to say that's extremely unprofessional. You may disagree or whatever, but this is my personal opinion as a translator and I won't be budging on it.

Feel free to shout at me for criticizing Treehouses' overall approach to translating, I am not going to reply to it again.

[Suicae]

23 minutes ago, LoboKD001 said:

everyone can have a support level with everyone. it's just only some pairs have an actual convo. that's why i've been using the word convo than support. Sakura and leo can have Rank A support yes but they do not have a convo when reaching A.

Oh wow, I feel like an idiot... Thanks for clearing that up for me, because I saw some other characters who didn't have convos getting ranks and I'm thinking "what?".

Edit: I removed that post on tumblr then since I (falsely) claimed Leo and Sakura were going to have a support convo. How embarrassing.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Kobushi

[Mori-no-Majou]

1 hour ago, Nanima said:

As for your claim of all the supports being 1:1 so far... Did you even read what I translated? Yes, the Takumi/Lissa support is 95% the same, not something to get particularly worked up about. But you did miss one important detail: The hair tie Lissa switched Takumi's for originally had a flower pattern. Treehouse felt it necessary to change it into having "Jerk" stitched into it. Sure that's a small detail, but I still have to ask... why? Was it necessary? Sure don't think so. Seems more like someone either had their own opinion of the character shine through or was trying to give a shout out to the fandom's opinion of him. Maybe they just thought it'd be funnier. Either way, I'd have to say that's extremely unprofessional. You may disagree or whatever, but this is my personal opinion as a translator and I won't be budging on it.

Maybe they just figured it would be more in-character for Takumi to be offended by being called a jerk, than it would for him to be offended by a simple flower pattern? Granted, I'm not exactly an expert on Takumi's character, but it doesn't seem like the kind of thing he'd be bothered by (especially considering sakura motifs are EVERYWHERE on Hoshidan armour and outfits), haha. Or maybe they didn't want him to seem like the kind of guy who feels threatened by feminine things. I don't think they had any sinister motives, honestly.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Mori-no-Majou

[Nanima]

18 minutes ago, Mori-no-Majou said:

Maybe they just figured it would be more in-character for Takumi to be offended by being called a jerk, than it would for him to be offended by a simple flower pattern? Granted, I'm not exactly an expert on Takumi's character, but it doesn't seem like the kind of thing he'd be bothered by (especially considering sakura motifs are EVERYWHERE on Hoshidan armour and outfits), haha. Or maybe they didn't want him to seem like the kind of guy who feels threatened by feminine things. I don't think they had any sinister motives, honestly.

Maybe not a sinister motive, but it's still wrong to make random changes like that. Treehouse isn't the main writers team, they are translators. They don't have the right to make a call on what's more in-character for Takumi. Also, there is a difference between having flowers motives hanging around and actively decorating yourself with them. Flower accessories are seen as pretty much exclusively feminine, with very few exceptions (a flower hair tie not being one of them). Also, Takumi is still a teenage boy, the same boy who remains upset that a girl (Hana) beat him with a sword for years after the fact. (Plus, Takumi's insecurity is one of his defining character traits) Did they think western audiences would be so offended by what's a common insecurity for teenage boys? It's not like he shouted at Lissa to go back to the kitchen or something obviously sexist. Again, I see no reason for the change, and their motive doesn't matter. It was still unprofessional.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Nanima

[VincentASM]

In their defence, Treehouse is literally Nintendo, right? Either way, I am sure Nintendo's translators have received the blessings of the developers, so they are free to make their own judgements.

I mean, I can understand people annoyed with fan translators suddenly adding in memes or changing Belf to Vergil. But to call official translators unprofessional for a relatively minor and perhaps properly thought out change is a bit far.

Now if you had talked about making Saizo x Beruka C a joke support or skipping Radiant Dawn's extended script, I could relate.

EDIT

Adapting dialogue or adding flair is all part of the parcel of localisation. In most circumstances, you NEVER translate 1:1. In this case, they must have thought to a Western audience, flowers being offensive wasn't as obvious as having "jerk" written on it.

Edited September 30, 2017 by VincentASM

[Nanima]

36 minutes ago, VincentASM said:

In their defence, Treehouse is literally Nintendo, right? Either way, I am sure Nintendo's translators have received the blessings of the developers, so they are free to make their own judgements.

I mean, I can understand people annoyed with fan translators suddenly adding in memes or changing Belf to Vergil. But to call official translators unprofessional for a relatively minor and perhaps properly thought out change is a bit far.

Now if you had talked about making Saizo x Beruka C a joke support or skipping Radiant Dawn's extended script, I could relate.

EDIT

Adapting dialogue or adding flair is all part of the parcel of localisation. In most circumstances, you NEVER translate 1:1. In this case, they must have thought to a Western audience, flowers being offensive wasn't as obvious as having "jerk" written on it.

That just shows Nintendo's approach to localization/translation and is not an objective judgement over what makes a good translation or not. We also don't know if it was the main writer's look at the script and approved it. We have no way of knowing their company policy at all. They certainly didn't look Fates over, or they would have realized that Kouga is called both a country and a village in the same sentence at one point. Or that Mozume is referred to as both Hoshidan and Nohrian (menu description and roster respectively).

It's fine if you don't care about small details and stuff being changed. For me, the devil is in the detail, and that's how I was taught to do it. You always need to change something, especially when it's supposed to be voiced later and translations are never 1:1 (Which, as a translator, I understand well, thank you very much.). But any change has to have some justification to it. Did anyone here honestly scratch their head at the flower hair tie and go "What a uniquely Japanese concept. As someone from western society, I simply do not get it at all."? This isn't a random line of dialogue that would have sounded stilted if translated 100% accurate. This is a detail that had no reason to be changed, besides someones personal opinion on humor. Which I would always be very careful with.

This wasn't even such a big gripe for me. I only brought it up in response to someone shouting at me for daring to criticize Treehouse. Again, feel free to be content with Treehouse's translations, but don't try and tell me how I am supposed to think about them. 

Edited September 30, 2017 by Nanima

[RaRaOoLaLa]

4 hours ago, Nanima said:

Okay, first calm the heck down here. I really do not like your aggressive tone and condescending language here.

As someone who has spend the better part of a year translating Fates actual Japanese supports into English and comparing them with the official localization, I am going to say that I can make a very informed judgement of their overall quality. And okay, I might have been harsh here, many of Treehouse's translations are perfectly serviceable and I have said so before. There are also supports that are widely different and just have the most random changes made to them, not for the sake of getting across an untranslatable nuance of the original, but for the sake of humour or not any apparent reason at all. I have said before that they probably had different writing teams working on Fates, amd maybe it was wrong of me to immediately assume the worst, but I won't stand by being told I have no right to distrust them at all.

There are different approaches to translating something of course, but I am of the opinion to stick as close to the original as possible unless there really is no good way to translate something. That's when you make changes that carry the same or very close meaning as the original.

As for your claim of all the supports being 1:1 so far... Did you even read what I translated? Yes, the Takumi/Lissa support is 95% the same, not something to get particularly worked up about. But you did miss one important detail: The hair tie Lissa switched Takumi's for originally had a flower pattern. Treehouse felt it necessary to change it into having "Jerk" stitched into it. Sure that's a small detail, but I still have to ask... why? Was it necessary? Sure don't think so. Seems more like someone either had their own opinion of the character shine through or was trying to give a shout out to the fandom's opinion of him. Maybe they just thought it'd be funnier. Either way, I'd have to say that's extremely unprofessional. You may disagree or whatever, but this is my personal opinion as a translator and I won't be budging on it.

Feel free to shout at me for criticizing Treehouses' overall approach to translating, I am not going to reply to it again.

Oh my God. Thank you for bringing this to attention, and I hope you don't mind me piggybacking (and derailing the topic). I'd followed the pre-localization translation/Japanese version before Fates got an international release and I can tell you that Treehouse is not that of a trustworthy translation company, at least for what they have done to Fates.

I ain't complaining about the changes they made in order to "conform to Western audience culture" or silly stuff like the removal swimsuits either. It's all their writing inconsistencies that annoy me.

Take Marx/Xander as an example. His support with Corrin had a considerable amount of lines and facts added by the localization, to the point of contradicting his actions in the story. I'm talking about lines like "now I'm strong enough to stand up against father" or some shit, which is 100% made up by Treehouse and of course never existed in the original. Sure, it was an attempt at painting him as a righteous, defiant son, but it was the complete opposite of his behavior that he displayed in the story, and sparked the whole dreaded surge of discussions about how he's two different person from story vs support, or how "Fates was done by multiple groups of writing so it sucks and has contradictions everywhere!" when I'm pretty sure most of it is due to Treehouse' fault rather than the original writers. And that's not even all of it. His personality also saw noticeable alterations (but only apparent to the obsessive type of people who really pay specific attention anyway), but I'm not going to go there for now. Basically Marx/Xander was very poorly handled by the localization. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me either that Treehouse also split into different translating groups, except they were the ones that didn't bother to double check stuff. I'm sure there are other instances where Treehouse dropped the ball on but I can't go through everything in the game.

And I feel you @Nanima, just want you to know I share your sentiment and you're not alone on this, and that people shouldn't bash you for doubting Treehouse. It'd be nice to have the raw, actual Japanese script and compare it to the Treehouse one. I'm not good at Japanese enough to do translations, but enough to detect which is actual translations and which is Treehouse fanfics. Personally, I’d take most of the stilted, albeit faithful fan translations over their localization any day. Also, I'm not saying localization/exerting their creative power on the original script is inherently bad (since I get one of the aims of localization is to make the game enjoyable to the foreign audience), but it's only acceptable if their alterations/additions are harmless.

Anyway, sorry for derailing this thread with an unnecessary negative post. I will stop being off-topic right now. I'm just gonna take it to the PM if anybody replies to this post.

Edited September 30, 2017 by RaRaOoLaLa

[The DanMan]

@Nanima @SatsumaFSoysoy I went too far. At the time, I felt hyperbole deserved hyperbole in response.
Though I think the change highlighted by Nanima and the discussion that sprang up around it shows how largely inconsequential this is. NOA is still Nintendo, and the original devs usually have some part in the localization. And Lissa does like to pull pranks, after all.

I just don't get the vitriol over NOA when companies like 8-4 and X-seed do similar stuff all the time; do people want Persona 5 level "super literal, stilted dialogue with honorofics kept intact"? 

@RaRaOoLaLa Fates' writing was inconsistent and sloppy in Japanese as well as English. If anything, the localization made the story slightly better (making Hoshidans come off as a bit more prejudiced, Corrin not explicitly regretting siding with Nohr at the start of Conquest 15)"Personality alterations" are more often than not people reading way too far into stuff (remember when some thought Elise would be a possessive brat because in the Chapter 6 scene she says "He's my brother!" instead of just calling out for Corrin?).

Get back to me when we have something on the level of Radiant Dawn's difficulty naming snafu and cut alternate script; that's a bad localization.

Edited September 30, 2017 by The DanMan

[omegaxis1]

8 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

As far as I know neither show up which is why I stated Chrom as knowing Male Robin since they came from the same world unless they also trade out Female Robin's Chrom too. As a gameplay mechanic, I can deal with them sharing skills and levels, but the support thing is where continuity jumps the rails. 

I dunno. I like to think of it like this. If the support is the same, but not actually in the story, then having the same conversation can just be seen as a "What if" where F!Robin was there instead of M!Robin. Same situation with Corrin. But since they aren't part of the actual story, canon-wise for the game, they weren't the ones there.