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ribbonedskies

Fixing The Five Star Summon Pool

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This is my personal wish list for FEH’s five star summoning pool.

 

I think that there’s a lot of units that are unviable in the five star pool. I primarily updated the units present in colorless’ five star pool. Colorless hell is an awful, awful thing.

 

Please feel free to edit this or disagree with me. I’m really interested in the way other people think about how the five star summoning should be changed.

 

RED

 

REMOVE:

Athena

Ogma

Saber

Seliph(?)

Caeda

Karel

Seth

 

ADD TO 4-5 STAR POOL:

Gray

Sanaki

 

BLUE

 

REMOVE:

Abel

Oscar

Catria

Clair

Peri

 

ADD TO 4-5 STAR POOL:

Hinoka

 

GREEN

 

REMOVE:

Camilla

Sheena

 

ADD TO 4-5 STAR POOL:

Merric

 

COLORLESS

 

REMOVE:
Rebecca

Jakob

Lachesis

Lucius

Maria


ADD TO 4-5 STAR POOL:

Genny

Mist

Jaffar

Edited by ribbonedskies

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The 5 Star pool overall needs a net loss, same with the 4 Stars. Both are a bit overstuffed. A lot of the 4s could get moved to the 3s. The 3s would be a lot more desirable with a bigger pool. What's another 2000 Feathers to bump up that rank?

With the current pull rate, I'd say it should be around:

50 - 55% 4 Stars
35% 3 Stars
10 - 15% 5 Stars

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51 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

5 start pool for what? Because I just pulled 5* Genny for performing arts.

the five star summoning pool. i wish wrathful staff was a bit easier to access so i wish they'd put her in the 4 star pool as well.

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I'm still rather appalled that Eliwood isn't available at 5 stars yet Peri is. 

As of right now some characters are 5 star locked while others can also be summoned at 4 stars. This is how I think some of the pool can be reworked and other units that can be left alone.

Remain as is (for either being extremely desirable units and/or being significant/popular characters)

  • All the Brave Heroes duh
  • Azura
  • Celica
  • Delthea
  • Eldigan
  • Elincia
  • Elise
  • Ephraim
  • Hector
  • Ike
  • Innes
  • Jaffar
  • Julia
  • Leo
  • Linde
  • Lucina
  • Lyn
  • Minerva
  • Ninian
  • Olwen
  • Ryoma
  • Sonya
  • Takumi
  • Tana
  • Tiki
  • Camilla (from here its people who are at the 5-4 pool but shouldn't be demoted further)
  • Chrom
  • Cordelia
  • Corrin
  • Effie
  • Eirika
  • Fae
  • Jeorge
  • Kagero
  • Lilina
  • Marth
  • Mathilda
  • Reinhardt
  • Roderick
  • Roy
  • Sakura
  • Sanaki
  • Seliph (sadly...)
  • Tharja

Should be moved to 5-4

  • Alm (a little debatable here, but if Marth can be recruited at 4 stars so can Alm just saying)
  • Amelia
  • Faye
  • Genny
  • Gray
  • Hinoka (also pretty debatable)
  • Karel
  • Katarina
  • Luke
  • Mist
  • Nephenee
  • Saber

Should be moved to 4-3

  • Everyone else =P
Edited by SilvertheShadow

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23 minutes ago, SilvertheShadow said:

I'm still rather appalled that Eliwood isn't available at 5 stars yet Peri is. 

As of right now some characters are 5 star locked while others can also be summoned at 4 stars. This is how I think some of the pool can be reworked and other units that can be left alone.

 

I really like that list!

In my opinion, I think that Camilla should be knocked down to 3-4 star rarity just because of how, to put it bluntly, awful she's turned out to be. She wasn't as awful when the game first came out but power creep really took a toll on her viability. 

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19 minutes ago, Captain Karnage said:

Get Lilinia out of the 5 star pool

I've pulled 5 of her already

 

and get rid of the F2P characters out of the 4 and 5 star pool

I think we should keep F2P characters in 3 to 4 star pools. Just because novice players might accidentally send them home or use them stupidly. But yes, definitely keep them out of the five star pool (except CYL characters, of course). 

I don't think Lilinia should be moved, just for the fact that it's really all RNG that messes with us. (cries sadly as I've never obtained a Lilinia.) 

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3 minutes ago, ribbonedskies said:

I really like that list!

In my opinion, I think that Camilla should be knocked down to 3-4 star rarity just because of how, to put it bluntly, awful she's turned out to be. She wasn't as awful when the game first came out but power creep really took a toll on her viability. 

Hey thanks! :D

I agree that Camilla has since long passed her heyday (though she can be still viable if you change out her kit a bunch but that's another story), however I always felt dropping her to that pool was a bit much. She's a still a popular and significant character in Fates so she has that going for her, and even if you pulled a 5 star of her today its not a total loss since you could give her Brave Axe+ to somebody if you're not interested in investing in her.

Same for Lilina. She's never going to be as good as Celica, Katarina, or Tharja, but she has merit being Hector's daughter, and... well, not being awful unlike some other characters in the 5 star pool (I'm looking at you, Clair and Merric). 

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7 minutes ago, SilvertheShadow said:

Hey thanks! :D

I agree that Camilla has since long passed her heyday (though she can be still viable if you change out her kit a bunch but that's another story), however I always felt dropping her to that pool was a bit much. She's a still a popular and significant character in Fates so she has that going for her, and even if you pulled a 5 star of her today its not a total loss since you could give her Brave Axe+ to somebody if you're not interested in investing in her.

Same for Lilina. She's never going to be as good as Celica, Katarina, or Tharja, but she has merit being Hector's daughter, and... well, not being awful unlike some other characters in the 5 star pool (I'm looking at you, Clair and Merric). 

That is very true. Perhaps I'm still bitter that she won against Lyn.

Personal feelings aside, in pure popularity terms, Camilla staying in 4-5 star range makes a lot of sense. She's been in, like, what, three voting gauntlets and won at least one of them. Her abilities as a unit aren't amazing but at least she has popularity on her side. I won't lie and say, at the beginning of Heroes, I was quite excited when I pulled a five star Camilla.

(Off note: I think it's been said enough but I do wish that summoning cut scenes would disappear. I always think I'm gonna get a good unit but it ends up being Camilla...)

I do think Clair, Merric, and Mathilda should be dropped to 4 star summoning. Clair should be at 3 stars, with hit and run being one of her available skills. (Who honestly uses her for anything else?). Mathilda isn't a great lance cavalier, especially compared to F2P Camus.

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34 minutes ago, ribbonedskies said:

I think we should keep F2P characters in 3 to 4 star pools. Just because novice players might accidentally send them home or use them stupidly. But yes, definitely keep them out of the five star pool (except CYL characters, of course). 

I don't think Lilinia should be moved, just for the fact that it's really all RNG that messes with us. (cries sadly as I've never obtained a Lilinia.) 

Yo don't double post!  The little plus sign next to Quote enables Mulitquote.

24 minutes ago, SilvertheShadow said:

Hey thanks! :D

I agree that Camilla has since long passed her heyday (though she can be still viable if you change out her kit a bunch but that's another story), however I always felt dropping her to that pool was a bit much. She's a still a popular and significant character in Fates so she has that going for her, and even if you pulled a 5 star of her today its not a total loss since you could give her Brave Axe+ to somebody if you're not interested in investing in her.

Same for Lilina. She's never going to be as good as Celica, Katarina, or Tharja, but she has merit being Hector's daughter, and... well, not being awful unlike some other characters in the 5 star pool (I'm looking at you, Clair and Merric). 

Heyday or not, she comes with a lot of good inheritance fodder.  Several people like the Brave Axe+, Dragon Fang is still a decent skill, I have a ton of use for Darting Blow, and Savage Blow is a funny niche skill.

Lilina has her own uses, as well, whether it be Atk +3 fodder or setup for the -owl series.  With her innately high Atk and -raven, she works wonderfully as an offensive colorless delete button.

---

I'm fine with the 5* pool, because it means I don't have to spend feathers to inherit stuff.  The 20,000 feathers to get skill fodder from 4* to 5* is pretty steep.

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you can get all of the fates royals at 5 stars right? (aside from xander cause special snowflake) while having more of them be available at 4 star, I dont think any of them should be outright removed from 5 star slot. many of the newer characters i agree to tho.

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17 minutes ago, Thany said:

you can get all of the fates royals at 5 stars right? (aside from xander cause special snowflake) while having more of them be available at 4 star, I dont think any of them should be outright removed from 5 star slot. many of the newer characters i agree to tho.

As you have mentioned, Xander (Paragon Knight) is not obtainable at 5* (as he can only be obtained at 3-4* via his Grand Hero Battle).

Hinoka, Takumi, Leo (Sorcerous Prince), Elise (Budding Flower), and Azura (Lady of the Lake) are 5* exclusives.

Camilla (Bewitching Beauty), Sakura, and male Corrin are in the 4-5* pool.

F!Corrin (Fateful Princess) is in the 3-4* pool.

Edited by Roflolxp54

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10 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Heyday or not, she comes with a lot of good inheritance fodder.  Several people like the Brave Axe+, Dragon Fang is still a decent skill, I have a ton of use for Darting Blow, and Savage Blow is a funny niche skill.

Lilina has her own uses, as well, whether it be Atk +3 fodder or setup for the -owl series.  With her innately high Atk and -raven, she works wonderfully as an offensive colorless delete button.

---

I'm fine with the 5* pool, because it means I don't have to spend feathers to inherit stuff.  The 20,000 feathers to get skill fodder from 4* to 5* is pretty steep.

4* Camilla is still decent as a skill fodder. She's the only unit with Savage Blow at 4* and still has access to Draconic Aura. As for Darting Blow 3, Florina, Tharja and Rebecca all have it at 4*. And I'm used with paying 20k feathers for the 5* version of a weapon, so doing so with the Brave Axe would be a slight loss if it means the 5* pool is less bloated as a result.

As for Lilina, I find it hard to justify her staying in the 5* pool when Sanaki is already there and has pretty much the same stat spread. And I don't consider Atk+3 a skill worthy of breaking my pity rate when it's already readily available on two 3-4* units, not to mention she could still pass Fire and Eflire for the Owl tomes even as a 3*.

And I would prefer to spend the 20k feathers to promote an hypothetical 4* Hinoka for Hone Fliers than to hope I get her 5* version when the chances of her appearing one in a full pull off-banner is 0.17%. Feathers are much easier to come by than orbs after all.

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I think the original pool should stay the same. I just think they should've allowed new characters to drop down to 3*-4* range. I'm happy that they swapped the rates but I don't see why every single new unit needs to have a 5* version.

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3 minutes ago, LuxSpes said:

4* Camilla is still decent as a skill fodder. She's the only unit with Savage Blow at 4* and still has access to Draconic Aura. As for Darting Blow 3, Florina, Tharja and Rebecca all have it at 4*. And I'm used with paying 20k feathers for the 5* version of a weapon, so doing so with the Brave Axe would be a slight loss if it means the 5* pool is less bloated as a result.

As for Lilina, I find it hard to justify her staying in the 5* pool when Sanaki is already there and has pretty much the same stat spread. And I don't consider Atk+3 a skill worthy of breaking my pity rate when it's already readily available on two 3-4* units, not to mention she could still pass Fire and Eflire for the Owl tomes even as a 3*.

And I would prefer to spend the 20k feathers to promote an hypothetical 4* Hinoka for Hone Fliers than to hope I get her 5* version when the chances of her appearing one in a full pull off-banner is 0.17%. Feathers are much easier to come by than orbs after all.

You just named a lot of units I haven't pulled in a long time, especially Florina.  I'm F2P, so paying for things with feathers is a bigger issue.

Then Lilina would bump out Sophia, whose arguably worse.  I have no issues with Lilina staying where she is, since Sanaki is a 5* exclusive.

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I once had a thread asking which demotions people would most like to see. This was before they swapped the rarity of 3 and 4 star units however, none of us seemed to anticipate that instead of demotions.

But the 5 star pool remains very janky, particularly with colorless units. And I don't know how to really fix that, most colorless units just aren't in high demand except Bow Lyn and seasonal units you can no longer pull.

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7 minutes ago, KongDude said:

I think the original pool should stay the same. I just think they should've allowed new characters to drop down to 3*-4* range. I'm happy that they swapped the rates but I don't see why every single new unit needs to have a 5* version.

It's because dropping a character to the 3-to-4-star pool immediately after the character was 5-star exclusive on their introductory banner shits on anyone who pulled for that character (both players who whaled for the character and who spent their orbs sniping for the character) during the banner.

 

Also, although feathers are easier to come by than off-banner 5-star-exclusive characters, focus characters are easier to come by than feathers. Promoting 11 copies of a 3-to-4-star character costs 220,000 feathers, or the equivalent of sending home more than 700 4-star characters or 19 weeks of the maximum reward from Arena and Arena Assault. In contrast, it takes an average of less than 400 pulls when sniping a single color to pull 11 copies of a single 5-star focus character (not to mention you'll have more than 300 other units from those pulls that can be sent home for feathers or used for Skill Inheritance).

While demoting characters to the 3-to-4-star pool makes it easier to get a single copy of the character promoted to 5 stars, it makes it significantly harder to get a merged 5-star copy of the character. (If you look at my box, you'll notice that all of the high-merge units I have are characters that can naturally be pulled at 5-star rarity with the single exception of Gwendolyn, who was merged to +10 out of necessity. Any other character that cannot be pulled at 5-star rarity ends up stuck at +0 or +1 because it simply costs too many feathers to promote additional copies of the character for the purpose of merging.)

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4 hours ago, SilvertheShadow said:
  • Camilla (from here its people who are at the 5-4 pool but shouldn't be demoted further)
  • Chrom
  • Cordelia
  • Corrin
  • Effie
  • Eirika
  • Fae
  • Jeorge
  • Kagero
  • Lilina
  • Marth
  • Mathilda
  • Reinhardt
  • Roderick
  • Roy
  • Sakura
  • Sanaki
  • Seliph (sadly...)
  • Tharja

Should be moved to 5-4

  • Alm (a little debatable here, but if Marth can be recruited at 4 stars so can Alm just saying)
  • Amelia
  • Faye
  • Genny
  • Gray
  • Hinoka (also pretty debatable)
  • Karel
  • Katarina
  • Luke
  • Mist
  • Nephenee
  • Saber

I'm a little confused here. Aren't all characters that you can roll for either 3-4*, 4-5* or 5* exclusive? How is the first part of the list different from the next part?

Overall, I agree. Most characters with inheritable weapons should be less than 5* exclusive (Ninian and Azura being the exceptions because dancers are so good).

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3 hours ago, eclipse said:

Savage Blow is a funny niche skill

For some reason, I have a fetish for that skill (and Growing/Blazing Wind to a lesser extent).

All my best nukes have Savage Blow (my favorite ones additionally have Growing/Blazing Wind). It is a huge waste of SP since I rarely use it outside the Training Tower, and if it were not for merges, I would have never finished building all my nukes.

— — — — — — —

Anyways, I do not really mind who gets demoted. Hell, I would actually be pretty happy if they gave out BB!Cordelia+10 for free to everyone. That would not make me regret spending a small (I am intentionally being delusional here) amount of money to get my BB!Cordelia to +10, since I see it as having TWO (technically three if I plan to merge my 11 other BB!Cordelias) pimped out units for Arena.

Edited by XRay

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By remove do you mean get rid of completely?

I don't want any characters completely removed from the pool, especially some of the ones you mentioned that I'm still hoping to get. Or by remove, did you mean make them 3-4*?

Honestly, I think more characters should drop to 4-5*, though... and, despite what Ice Dragon says, I do wish more dropped to 3-4* - but it's whether the game wants to cater to the whales who pay them most, or the people who put in less or nothing... so it's understandable they'd keep them at 4-5* in that case with the explanation given.

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I have another Idea, in Tales of Link there are certain banners where you can get certain 5* Characters on a banner.
So they could make side banners where the 5 stars are limited to certain characters (like 5 per color) so you have a higher chance to get them if you don't draw the focus unit.
I think this would be not much of an impact, but still raise slim chances. 

 

Edited by Stroud

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I think it depends on how patient you are and what kind of situation you are in.

If you're impatient, are exceedingly lucky, are f2p and have an enormous orb stash for one particular banner focus, or are a whale, pulling 11 of the same 5* focus indeed sounds like the better route.

However, if you are f2p and patient, I don't see any hope of the above happening, and can only expect to get a few of the new 5* focus units, if any at all. "400 pulls" is not something most f2p would consider a viable reason to try to pull 11 of one 5* focus unit. Native 3-4* units then become far more appealing, especially for slowly merging up to attain an Arena score capable of staying in Tier 20. I speak from my own experience, with slowly building up a stash of Cecilias/Eliwoods to merge up. And I'm sure if I had not burned so many for SI fodder, I or any other f2p person could have acquired 11 copies of many other 3-4* units (the most notable one for me being Stahl, but many others have also reached a count of 10+ at some point).

Unless a particular unit is significant to said person (waifu/husbando) or is part of their arena core, I can't envision many non-whales hoping to pull 11 copies of multiple new 5* focus units.

Back on the topic of changing the 5* pool, I wouldn't mind that happening to remove some of the clutter (which could also reduce the rage of people getting off-banner 5*s that have low combat/SI value), I just can't see IS changing it any time soon. I do agree it sounds horrible for a unit to drop to 3-4* after someone has burned a lot of orbs to obtain the 5* focus version beforehand.

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16 minutes ago, Azuni said:

However, if you are f2p and patient, I don't see any hope of the above happening, and can only expect to get a few of the new 5* focus units, if any at all. "400 pulls" is not something most f2p would consider a viable reason to try to pull 11 of one 5* focus unit. Native 3-4* units then become far more appealing, especially for slowly merging up to attain an Arena score capable of staying in Tier 20. I speak from my own experience, with slowly building up a stash of Cecilias/Eliwoods to merge up. And I'm sure if I had not burned so many for SI fodder, I or any other f2p person could have acquired 11 copies of many other 3-4* units (the most notable one for me being Stahl, but many others have also reached a count of 10+ at some point).

If you've been playing since launch and pulled for a couple characters, I'd be genuinely surprised if someone hasn't gotten almost every 3* and 4* base unit. I'm (almost) F2P and only missing 3 or 4* base unit, that being Jeorge.

I feel like expanding that pool is necessary, although not essential right now. However, surely by the anniversary mark (preferably before), they'll have to expand the pool and demote units like Saber, Sanaki, Karel, Faye, Mist, etc. 

I'd also like them to remove all 4* base units from the over-saturating the 5* base pool, but I'm not sure if they'll do that.

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