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Fire Emblem Heroes: The Mafia Gacha: The Game Thread

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Just now, Oboro-Garasu said:

Wait so how did FK get roleblocked

I had a 1x roleblock.

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Wait, nvm, just noticed Veronica's 1-shot roleblock, which also activated the massblock on the next night

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I tunneled on Refa all game in the graveyard lmao.

Ah well, GG scum. Town was a little off D2 but Refa did a good job turning around reads on him, I think.

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4 minutes ago, Prims said:

I tunneled on Refa all game in the graveyard lmao.

Ah well, GG scum. Town was a little off D2 but Refa did a good job turning around reads on him, I think.

Was this after I told you he was scum or not?

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Prims and Proto rolling the siblings actually made me laugh. Reinhardt and Olwen were based on the Kay and Proto role from SFMM2. Prims was Kay in that game, and killed on N1. And once again, he randomizes into the role that was inspired by a role he previously held, and was N1-killed yet again. Proto was not only his favorite character in this mafia game, but the other half of the original role was named after him.

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I was busy for that last day phase, that's why I never talked, it was a good thing you killed me because I would have voted you, well played refa 

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I'm a little disappointed that town lost, only because I wanted Proto to win.

Green Poet was pretty much confirmed town given that scum couldn't have so many roleblocking abilities and also an ascetic on top of that.

Still, congratulations to Refa. I was scumreading you for most of the game but after Michelaar's lynch I changed my mind for a while, since your exchange with BBM after he decided to lynch your scumbuddy last minute seemed so calm and composed. I have no idea how you managed to make those posts.

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5 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Mack, I hope you'll consider playing more games with us in the future.

Yeah I had fun, I'll be joining the next one, what ability would I have pulled the last two nights? 

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7 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Mack, I hope you'll consider playing more games with us in the future.

Yeah, I thought Mack and Bartozio did a good job picking up on things more as the game went on. Hope y'all stick around.

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6 minutes ago, Mackc2 said:

Yeah I had fun, I'll be joining the next one, what ability would I have pulled the last two nights? 

You'd have to ask Shinori; Kiran was purely his idea so I let him deal with all of the details related to that role.

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49 minutes ago, Mitsuki said:

I'm a little disappointed that town lost, only because I wanted Proto to win.

Still, congratulations to Refa. I was scumreading you for most of the game but after Michelaar's lynch I changed my mind for a while, since your exchange with BBM after he decided to lynch your scumbuddy last minute seemed so calm and composed. I have no idea how you managed to make those posts.

I can't even say "why not me ;_;" because I wanted to be the same alignment as some of the townies during the game haha (I still want to be!).  That's one thing I miss from EiMM, being able to choose who you can win with.

Honestly, I have no idea either.  I think I was just dead inside after BBM ruined all of my hard work making that counterwagon.

EDIT Oh right, forgot to ask.  Just curious as to why you were scumreading me.  Asking for a friend because I'll definitely never roll scum after this game again.

Edited by Refa

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I was disappointed Pika wasn't actually scum like SB told me because if he had been then the wagon I started intentionally because I wanted two Day 1 wagons to analyze would have resulted in scum/scum wagons which would have been funny as hell.

I don't think ascetic combined with roleblocks everywhere made GP town since she easily could have been "mafia insomniac / ascetic / JoAT", but ascetic combined with a flipped godfather and the shittiest cop ever did make her look townie. still not confirmed though.

go join my game people

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THE GAME SETUP

Despite Kiran's importance to the lore of FEH, the first roles I'd actually come up with were the siblings and Alfonse. As I stated above, Reinhardt and Olwen were inspired by the Proto and Kay role from SFMM2 when I was rereading some of the older games.

I got a few questions about this role after Prims died, specifically people asking what a sibling was and whether Prims was a neighbor or a mason. Guys, I'm pretty sure "sibling" is a legit mafia role. I got a variation of sibling in an offsite game where if one died the other killed themselves. Reinhardt and Olwen were confirmed town to one another, but not to the rest of town if only one of them flipped. Reread Proto's endgame role PM, and compare it to Prims' flipped one. This was partly to hide that Reinhardt and Olwen had another part to their role, and because they had another part to their role they weren't automatically confirmed town upon the other's flip. Also, had Proto died instead of Prims, the Olwen role would've gotten a night kill instead of a day kill.

The Alfonse role was created to match the character's role and importance in the actual lore of FEH. As the main lord and prince of FEH, he was supposed to be a mayor. I also thought it would be interesting to have his identity affect the game ... somehow. I considered putting beloved prince(ss) on him, but decided instead to use a variation of a role I used before in SF Drafters, "apathetic tree stump". Alfonse's vote counted for double, and he could confirm himself as town at the cost of losing his vote. (Or at least that was how the role was supposed to go, mods fucked up and I apologize to the game for that.)

With these three roles being pretty strong "(possibly) confirmed townies" and with no investigation, I poked Shinori because he knew FEH lore and we built the rest of the roles around those three roles. I thought about putting in a neighborizor who could not target the same people consecutively, but Shinori pointed out that if this role got in contact with the siblings that had the potential to break something. I still wanted a form of OC communication that was not scum or siblings, so this became a courier instead. Although now that I think about it maybe I should've just made them a day courier like in the AM/PM games so that they would've still been affected by Kiran's OC shutdown.

Speaking of Kiran, this role was entirely Shinori's idea and it was a good one, although then we wished that we had more time to work out FEH-based mechanics into it. This was essentially a random jack of all trades, although each of the orb colors (red, blue, green, colorless) was supposed to correspond to a "type" of action. Honestly, you'll want to ask Shinori about this role instead of me because I let him deal with everything related to it.

Amelia was a standard safeguard and Serra was a standard doctor. The Eirika role (which I realize now should have been called empowerer) wasn't meant to conflict with the safeguard at all. The empowerer and the safeguard could have worked together to keep town's power roles safe and not able to be blocked, such as safeguard on the cop and empowerer on the doctor who would be on the cop ... which would take an incredible amount of luck or purposeful setup to accomplish, but the potential existed. Eirika's role was mostly intended to counter Xander.

Ike, the ascetic, was the only role that Eirika could not bypass, and this was because an ascetic doesn't act on someone to make them fail. It is a passive property of their role. This is why Refa was able to make Elie target Green Poet -- because he was not targeting Green Poet directly but rather forcing someone else to target them. (Hilariously, Elie idled anyway so the point was moot.) We picked Ike for the ascetic because he's fucking Ike, and no one in their sane mind would mess with him. (Unless you're Reinhardt, lol Proto lynching GP.)

Sharena was the town colorblind cop, which meant that they didn't learn whether their target was guilty or innocent. Rather, they received a "color" as their result, which they would have to compare to future scans. This ability would reset every time they scanned two people of different alignments. I realize that this was town's main investigation and rather nerfed, but making Sharena a full time cop when Alfonse had the potential to confirm himself and the siblings existed had the potential to clear too many people at once. Also, I think colorblind cop works for Sharena in flavor, where she's very eager to befriend Heroes and not very suspicious of others.

The mafia consisted of Veronica, whose purpose was to fuck with the town, Xander, whose primary function was to protect Veronica, and Loki, who was supposed to be both a mole and the scum role cop. Loki had the potential to copy every role in the game except for the siblings and Alfonse, which doubled as a role cop and gave the mafia a chance to use the town's own roles against them. Unfortunately this never came into play because the Loki role was lynched on D1. Xander's shrouding ability was mostly intended to shield people from visiting Veronica, although it could be used on townies as well if they didn't intend to kill that player on the same night. The bulletproof only countered Olwen and Reinhardt, admittedly, but I didn't want to give one of the scum a chance to not get fucked over by a very lucky dayshot. And Xander is very tanky.

Veronica's delayed mass role block was inspired by her tome's panic function. She would target one person on a certain night, and on the following night everyone else except for that person and the mafia would get role blocked. This had the potential to make that one person who didn't get role blocked look suspicious, while Veronica and her faction would know about the masshook and properly feign blocked. I didn't want them to be able to use it on N1, though, so the earliest the masshook could take place was on N3. The mafia faction was meant to be small but very powerful provided that they managed to survive long enough to use their abilities.

Unless there's something you guys are particularly curious about, that's basically the gist of the setup and the intent. I'll give individual player performances later, after I get a chance to read through the entire thread again.

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I can get the reasoning behind the Prims/Proto roles and while I don't think it was broken in the context of the setup, it still feels wrong to reward masons for one of them being killed (EDIT I know they didn't get rewarded if one of them got lynched, but who lynches masons?).  Maybe that's just me, I don't know.

This one is definitely me but I don't really like random roles.  I think if you told Mackc2 what type of action each orb corresponded too, it'd have worked better (even though it'd still be random), but even then...not being able to control your action must feel bad.  It makes sense because the game is based on Heroes, but yeah.

EDIT Also I appreciate the detailed write up.

Edited by Refa

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Empowerer vs Safeguard was only an issue when we assumed that there was a Mafia Roleblocker. Once we learned that it was Junko screwing with the actions, the contrast made more sense.

I'm not quite sure why Marth's self-clear would be a strong point in Town's favor... it's no different from becoming a tree stump since he'd lose his vote (i.e. a dead player that can talk). I guess it would also be relevant if the Town could redirect scum to Marth, but the only redirector (Refa) was scum.

If Michelaar survived, this could have been pretty scary.

Overall, it was a great game, and I think it was well-balanced, given how everything turned out. I wish I thought a bit harder about Refa's claim that he couldn't redirect on N4, but eh, the idea of Refa approving Junko's massclaim sounded ridiculous and I screwed up. You did pretty well, Refa, congratulations! I keep scumreading you in so many games but I think this is the first time you were actually scum... and then I actually let you go in LYLO >_>.

I should probably go join my imouto's game, despite my colossal failure in this one.

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Well, the siblings getting a kill is also proportional to who rolls the role. If instead of Prims someone who is not a prime NK target had rolled sibling along with Proto, it's quite possible that their extra kill would not have come into play at all. Getting lynched does not activate the vengeful kill either, they have to specifically be killed at night. Also, Olwen could get blocked by usual night action shenanigans, as well as the bulletproof. Just dumb luck that Prims was Olwen and got killed, which meant Proto got his unstoppable-except-by-Xander day kill. Also it's hilarious that Reinhardt can't kill Xander but still killed Amelia here.

I'll keep in Michelaar's role and the random effects in mind for future games, yeah. We probably needed to tweak that role a bit more.

EDIT: Proto, are you just going to refer to Prims as your imouto from now on lol

Edited by Sunwoo

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1 minute ago, Sunwoo said:

Well, the siblings getting a kill is also proportional to who rolls the role. If instead of Prims someone who is not a prime NK target had rolled sibling along with Proto, it's quite possible that their extra kill would not have come into play at all. Getting lynched does not activate the vengeful kill either, they have to specifically be killed at night. Also, Olwen could get blocked by usual night action shenanigans, as well as the bulletproof. Just dumb luck that Prims was Olwen and got killed, which meant Proto got his unstoppable-except-by-Xander day kill. Also it's hilarious that Reinhardt can't kill Xander but still killed Amelia here.

Yeah, it's less about the role being broken in this game (which I don't think it was FWIW; now that I know the setup, the balance seems fine), and more a uh personal thing.  I don't think either of them getting lynched would ever happen unless I persuaded Marth onto them.

Obviously Reinhardt had an Attack Boon, was merged to +10, buffed by Hone Cavalry and two Goad Cavalry, and procced Dragon Fang.

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