Why are individual characters so important?

[Fireball260]

5 minutes ago, Kagetura said:

Problem is we alrdy know what this game looks like in the next 3 dlc packs and they alrdy let us know older games aren't in this games future so it doesn't change a thing mentioning the time difference. If I have a problem with it being all awakening fates now with a few bones thrown to SD I'll still have a problem with it then.

 

That exactly how it was to Hyrule Warriors was at first. The only new game added to Hyrule was Majora's Mask in January and after that we didn't know more was coming at all until that years E3 5 months later. At least now they straight up said that they are willing to support the game pass the first season of DLC. 

[wissenschaft]

usually with warrior games, fans say character don't matter that much because you end up playing everyone (its the whole point of the game). But I can understand those that are not into the warrior games being interested only in their favorite characters. But if your just buying the game for one or two characters you'll probably get bored of it fast.

[Kagetura]

5 minutes ago, Fireball260 said:

That exactly how it was to Hyrule Warriors was at first. The only new game added to Hyrule was Majora's Mask in January and after that we didn't know more was coming at all until that years E3 5 months later. At least now they straight up said that they are willing to support the game pass the first season of DLC. 

Don't recall them saying they plan on putting any older characters in this current game they said sequel. (Not you) but people just love to seem to pick this funny argument that when we say were looking for a character in a game were only gonna play that one character that's retarded to assume because ofc were going to play other characters. I don't buy smash to just play FE or zelda characters but I sure as he'll ain't buying it if their not included. Just like how those people see characters that say fire emblem for them I see characters I hardly like as fire emblem characters so it has the opposite effect on me.

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, Kagetura said:

Don't recall them saying they plan on putting any older characters in this current game they said sequel. (Not you) but people just love to seem to pick this funny argument that when we say were looking for a character in a game were only gonna play that one character that's retarded to assume because ofc were going to play other characters. I don't buy smash to just play FE or zelda characters but I sure as he'll ain't buying it if their not included. Just like how those people see characters that say fire emblem for them I see characters I hardly like as fire emblem characters so it has the opposite effect on me.

And i'd buy Smash even if I didn't recognize a single character on the roster.  Different opinions and all~!

[Kagetura]

6 minutes ago, eclipse said:

And i'd buy Smash even if I didn't recognize a single character on the roster.  Different opinions and all~!

I guess you could chalk it up to that, I barely like most of Nintendo's games even tho I grew up on them til this point, if it's not smash or FE I rarely care for it, not a Mario fan, Pokemon depends on the generation and LoZ is specific games. I know at this point my opinions are conventional but id consider it decently mixed.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Kagetura

[wissenschaft]

8 minutes ago, Kagetura said:

I guess you could chalk it up to that, I barely like most of Nintendo's games even tho I grew up on them til this point, if it's not smash or FE I rarely care for it, not a Mario fan, Pokemon depends on the generation and LoZ is specific games. I know at this point my opinions are conventional but id consider it decently mixed.

Well, we are the same. I don't really care for Nintendo games anymore even though I grew up on the SNES. Nowadays I enjoy games like dark souls and Fallout, far cry, etc.

I got the new 3ds so I could get the bunch of games I'm interested for cheap. FE games among them.

Edited October 2, 2017 by wissenschaft

[Kagetura]

6 minutes ago, wissenschaft said:

Well, we are the same. I don't really care for Nintendo games anymore even though I grew up on the SNES. Nowadays I enjoy games like dark souls and Fallout, far cry, etc.

I always get their system out of respect and nostalgia but I'm not one to run around buying games i know I hardly care for and that's what I feel like this game will be to me, I'm not starving for a warriors game decent or not because not many of them are bad but I can say I have gained interest in other series over the years like, SMT, monster Hunter, xeno series and a bit more.

Haven't tried a few of those games because I was a avid fps hater growing up but warming back up to the genre again and a friend has been getting me to try dark souls which I like.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Kagetura

[Yexin]

oh, god, where should i start from?

i mean, ok, maybe not getting the game due to the lack of ONE SINGLE characrer may seem exaggerated and stupid

the fact is that we're all humans

we develop a particularly deep love for everything we like, and that's normal, isn't it?

then why "not getting a game because it doesn't have what you like" is so difficult to understand?

it's the rules of nature

take this "you buy what you like" rule and apply it on a larger scale

you obtain "economy"

Edited October 2, 2017 by Yexin

[Gaia093]

It's a fanservice crossover game; fanservice understood as in the whole point is to give people characters they'd like to play as.

If not for the characters, I'm not sure why one would pick up this Warriors game and not any other. They are all going to have crazy movesets and essentially the same kind of gameplay. I poured hundreds of hours into HW and this is going to be roughly the same thing all over again. It's the characters that everything boils down to in the end. 

The one reason I'm genuinely excited about this, currently, is that I always wanted to play Lyn like this - among others that aren't making it - since waaaay before I knew the Warriors franchise was a thing.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Gaia093

[shadowofchaos]

1 hour ago, Gaia093 said:

If not for the characters, I'm not sure why one would pick up this Warriors game and not any other. They are all going to have crazy movesets and essentially the same kind of gameplay.

This right here is the most common generalization from most dissenters.

While it is true that Koei makes these crossovers to hook fans with the fanservice premise... The entire experience is what you're in it for is entirely for the reaaons you choose as a player.

You're essentially saying that your investment in characters is the sole investment anyone else can have with a Musou game.

Look what eclipse just said above.

Edited October 2, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[Sol Hiryu]

I'm baffled at how people can go "rosters shouldn't matter" when musou spin-offs of franchises are literally fanservice. Rosters absolutely do matter in these games and they can definitely make or break a game.

One Piece Musou did well with fleshing out character movesets while including fan-favorites and surprise picks -- enough to have three games in the series. Gundam Musou included characters from way back in the series because it was a representation of the entire franchise in the very first game. Attack on Titan did well enough with its characters and mechanics that a sequel is in development. Also, remember when the inclusion of Ryu Hayabusa and Ayane were big selling points for Warriors Orochi 3? They brought a lot of hype alone, which contributed to sales of the game.

Conversely, Berserk Musou was widely panned for an extremely thin roster that left out several characters that people wanted, and fans were upset.

The inclusion of characters -- or their exclusion -- is definitely enough to sway someone's decision on if they want to buy a musou title or not. People who wanted to see Wind Waker or pre-N64 characters in Hyrule Warriors were likely upset that they were left out of the base game and likely didn't buy until the Legends expansion came out, for example.

FE Warriors is definitely a polished and well done game mechanically, but the number one complaint with people reviewing the game on amazon and elsewhere is that the roster has big problems, namely that there aren't enough axes and that there are too many Fates characters.

(Anecdotally, Awakening generally has a warm reception with fans, but Fates is a very controversial game both in the JP and US fandoms, so the inclusion of every single Royal has led to backlash. Not surprising, but it could have been avoided.)

[wissenschaft]

The Fates hate is real. If you had this many character from the GBA or Ike's games I bet there wouldn't be as much outrage. I do think theres more fans of fate then the vocal opposition lets on. But we shall see how the game sells. Honestly, not sure how many FE fans want to play a Musou game anyway so who knows.

Edited October 2, 2017 by wissenschaft

[Folt]

Eh. The roster shouldn't mean everything to your enjoyment of the game. A game with an awesome roster but being terrible to play through is something I'd pass over. I would however buy a game with a terrible roster but it being decent otherwise.

[Lau]

Well, at least it isn't the worse roster we could have gotten. It could have just been Fates or Awakening, and it could've been a smaller roster.

Either way you can't deny that the game looks beautiful.

Kinda makes you question if it's just the fact that it's Awakening and Fates of all games. If the roster was split between, say, Elibe and Tellius, there'd be no complaints, especially from the people who are being the most toxic.

[Etrurian emperor]

The roster isn't the most important thing but its certainly important. And the roster can also creep into other factors. 

We've got no good villains for instance. I don't see a way how this doesn't negatively affect the story or the stages because they still need to drive the story and serve as bosses. 

Its also a matter of principle. A big chunk of the games and fans are just straight up ignored and that's just not pretty. 

[Gaia093]

47 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

This right here is the most common generalization from most dissenters.

While it is true that Koei makes these crossovers to hook fans with the fanservice premise... The entire experience is what you're in it for is entirely for the reaaons you choose as a player.

You're essentially saying that your investment in characters is the sole investment anyone else can have with a Musou game.

Look what eclipse just said above.

I didn't say other players can't have other reasons. I said that I don't find them very solid at all. That is my opinion and you won't be changing it any time soon.

[wissenschaft]

23 minutes ago, Gaia093 said:

I didn't say other players can't have other reasons. I said that I don't find them very solid at all. That is my opinion and you won't be changing it any time soon.

Umm, OK.

No matter what roster they picked there would be people unhappy. Koei chose the two recent games that have sold the best in the series history. So older fans are unhappy. If they picked the older games, the newer fans would be unhappy. If they picked all lords from across the game, there would be fans upset their favorite non-lord wasn't in the game.

If your not of fan of the 3 FE games focused on in this game then it might not be for you.

Edited October 2, 2017 by wissenschaft

[Etrurian emperor]

44 minutes ago, wissenschaft said:

Umm, OK.

No matter what roster they picked there would be people unhappy. Koei chose the two recent games that have sold the best in the series history. So older fans are unhappy. If they picked the older games, the newer fans would be unhappy. If they picked all lords from across the game, there would be fans upset their favorite non-lord wasn't in the game.

If your not of fan of the 3 FE games focused on in this game then it might not be for you.

But what if they picked both? Both an older game and a newer game. That way both parts of the fanbase would have been happy. 

The thought that the game isn't for a lot of fans is something I'm wary about. If the game flops in part due to that then its likely that's the end for FE warriors. 

[Mox]

I don't know if this is the case for anyone else but in my view (mostly of myself) it's favouritism.  I have always adored Iago, since the very first time I saw him - and I also believe for things like books and games it is natural to have a favourite character or set of characters.  I was intrigued and now, a couple years on, I still adore him to the point where he's my favourite.  His inclusion in the game (not even as a playable character) was enough to be the deciding factor for my (eventual) purchase.  

[wissenschaft]

But they did. Shadow warrior. That said, I do agree its lopeside in fates favor. We could have done without the two little royal sisters and instead had Minerva and Camus (wielding his legendary lance). Maybe that would have made people more happy. But ah well. We can only hope those two get in the game in DLC.

Edited October 2, 2017 by wissenschaft

[wissenschaft]

1 minute ago, Mox said:

I don't know if this is the case for anyone else but in my view (mostly of myself) it's favouritism.  I have always adored Iago, since the very first time I saw him - and I also believe for things like books and games it is natural to have a favourite character or set of characters.  I was intrigued and now, a couple years on, I still adore him to the point where he's my favourite.  His inclusion in the game (not even as a playable character) was enough to be the deciding factor for my (eventual) purchase.  

Ah cool, an Iago fan. Hes an villain in all the routes so yeah, his inclusion makes perfect sense.

[Mox]

38 minutes ago, wissenschaft said:

Ah cool, an Iago fan. Hes an villain in all the routes so yeah, his inclusion makes perfect sense.

It's soooooo good seeing him in HD.  Yassssss.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Mox
Added spoiler tags (I hope this works I'm so rusty at this...)

[Deva Ashera]

As has been said, this game isn't doing anything Hyrule Warriors didn't do..with the exception of Lyn & Celica.

The focus is on three games. Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword for Hyrule Warriors, Shadow Dragon, Awakening, and Fates for Fire Emblem Warriors.

The game has an imbalanced roster. In Hyrule Warriors we had 2 OoT, 3 TP, and 2 SS (originally 2 OoT, 2 TP, 1 SS until Zant & Ghirahim were made playable last minute). I don't feel like counting representation of Fire Emblem Warriors, but we all know it's imbalanced, though more noticeable due to its larger roster.

A large portion of the games is ignored, character-wise, due to 3 game focus. Even adding Legends + DLC, some games with usable characters were ignored, notably Link to the Past (Aghanim), Oracles (Din, Nayru, Onyx, Veran), Minish Cap (Vaati), and Phantom Hourglass (Linebeck)..and the Groose is still not Loose (Skyward Sword). This is similar to Fire Emblem Warriors exclusions.

First Round DLC focuses on core 3 games..more or less. In Hyrule Warriors, most DLC was tied to the base games, with exception to the Termina Pack adding Young Link & Tingle, which was still a direct sequel to Ocarina of Time and Tingle was intended to be the Lyn/Celica of Hyrule Warriors until Aonuma told Koei not to use him in the base game thus making him DLC. We didn't get characters from completely unrelated games until Wind Waker in base Legends and it's DLC packs.

I also feel like the devs wanting to wait for a Fire Emblem Warriors 2 to include characters like Ike and Roy could be that they want to give them the importance they deserve. Otherwise I fail to see any logical reason for not making them DLC that would definitely make bank.

[Etrurian emperor]

1 hour ago, wissenschaft said:

But they did. Shadow warrior. That said, I do agree its lopeside in fates favor. We could have done without the two little royal sisters and instead had Minerva and Camus (wielding his legendary lance). Maybe that would have made people more happy. But ah well. We can only hope those two get in the game in DLC.

I don't really see how Shadow dragon(I'm assuming you meant that one) can fill the gap of the games left out because it misses a lot of things people like about GBA and Tellius. I personally don't put shadow dragon in the same group as those but in its own one. 

I don't think Shadow dragon was put in to meet the western veterans half way. Its there for the Japanese. The new fans get pandered too, the Japanese get an olive branch and the western vets get two token characters completely outside the story. 

 

[TheWill]

At the expense of sounding like a knob, Warrior games aren't the games you'd typically want for an engrossing story or engaging gameplay.

Of course, there are going to be individual differences to this opinion, however the narratives of most cross-overs (have not played the main series, not sure if this is different for the main series) has been very lacklustre and compared to other action games like Bayonetta, Devil May Cry, Nier: Automata and Metal Gear Rising, Warriors games are almost mindless in comparison. All that Warriors has going for it, personally, is being mindless entertainment with characters I enjoy. If not for Lyn, Tiki and Celica, there would be absolutely zero characters I'd be interested in playing as, grinding and enjoying the usual mayhem of mowing down large groups of enemies.

The lack of Ike, Roy, Ephraim, Hector, Eirika, Micaiah, whoever. It absolutely does make a huge difference, especially for Warrior games as they don't have strong gameplay and/or narratives to build upon. 

I think the comparisons to Hyrule Warriors are honestly nonsense at this point. I get the logic that encompasses this thought process, since they both uphold a similar design philosophy in terms of their roster, however The Legend of Zelda is not a character-directed series. This is a crucial difference between Fire Emblem and Zelda. If you include Link, Zelda, Ganon and Impa, you already encompass an extremely large majority of Zelda games. 

2 hours ago, wissenschaft said:

No matter what roster they picked there would be people unhappy. 

There would be a lot less unhappy people if they didn't exclude a large section of the Fire Emblem community.