Lyn v. Guy

[Reikken]

Lyn and Guy are so equal in almost every single possible scenario, it's not funny. Disagree all you want, but it's the truth and you're allowed to be wrong.

That isn't at all true, actually. HHM in general disproves that very soundly.

Using defensive ability as an example...

An average lv 12 Lyn has 23-24 hp and 4 def.

An average lv 12 Guy has 31-32 hp and 7 def.

Lyn dies in 2 hits to 16 atk (If the atk is any lower, it takes more hits.)

in 3 hits to 12 atk

Guy dies in 2 hits to 22-23 atk (22 won't do it, but a mix of 22 and 23 will.)

in 3 hits to 17-18 atk

in 4 hits to 15 atk

in 5 hits to 13-14 atk

in 6 hits to 12-13 atk

And this is part of why I say that Guy is much better than Lyn.

Edited November 12, 2008 by Reikken

[sandmanccl]

Since when are Lyn and Guy both at level 12 at the same time?

If we're going to compare same level stats, do 20/-- or 20/anything, but 12/-- isn't likely because sure, Guy has better durability at level 12 than Lyn does at level 12, but Lyn's durability will be only slightly worse than his at her more likely higher level by the time of her rejoining.

If you don't play Lyn's mode at all, Guy is the better unit. If you're on Normal mode, Guy is pretty terrible as he can't hurt anything until his supports build up.

Lots of ifs. Funny how choice is such a huge factor on who is the better unit.

Edited November 12, 2008 by sandmanccl

[Reikken]

since FE7

[Reikken]

If we're going to compare same level stats, do 20/-- or 20/anything

No. Once you get to 20+, Guy's level is higher. He's free to promote at ch 22 or whatever, while Lyn has to wait at least until 26 (Hector mode numbering), while Guy continues to gain exp in 23, 23x, 24, and 25.

Then you may decide to promote Eliwood first, in which case Lyn has to wait even longer: through 26, 27, and 28.

but Lyn's durability will be only slightly worse than his at her more likely higher level by the time of her rejoining.

First of all, even if Lyn were 4 levels higher, that still only closes the defensive stat gaps less than 1/3 of the way. Even a 20 Lyn loses to a lv 12 Guy in hp by 2 and def by 1-2.

Secondly, Lyn's level is not likely higher. Lyn starts a level lower (after the prologue, since that's pretty fixed) and has 10 chapters that average about 14 lv 1-2 units.

Guy has 3.5 chapters that have about 35 enemies each with units at lv 3-4.

That's pretty equivalent.

Factoring in everything, Lyn's level is lower than Guy's. Factor in playing Eliwood mode instead of Hector mode (maybe about a 1/3 of the time? less? Hector mode seems to be preferred over Eliwood mode, and EHM and ENM are really so similar that they hardly warrant separating anyway), which reduces the number of chapters Guy has and number of enemies per chapter, and factor in not playing through Lyn mode, which reduces Lyn's level (and stats per level). Lyn gets shafted the most on these two factors.

If you're on Normal mode, Guy is pretty terrible as he can't hurt anything until his supports build up.

Funny you should say that when Lyn's offensive stats are about the same as Guy's on normal mode (Guy's spd is still higher. Lyn has the prepromotion offensive edge overall, though, due to Mani Katti's +7-8 damage on cav/armor/nomads). And his defensive stats are still significantly better. No, NM Guy performs just the same as HHM Guy. Both his stats and enemy stats are lower/higher.

Edited November 12, 2008 by Reikken

[Rei]

You also fail to mention that guy starts with a Killing Edge which is good for Funds, and Combat/Tactics, and he doesn't need to rely on that weapon to own either.

Guy's offensive stats are hax as mentioned. In both normal and HHM.

[Mekkah]

Despite being pro-Guy, I will be fair and say Guy does not get credit for his KE. Do you have to use Guy to use his Killing Edge? No, you have to let Matthew talk to him, and he can stand still for the rest of the chapter, never be fielded again once you get battle preps, but you still can give the KE to whoever you want.

Of course, Guy is the prolly single best user of the KE during the first chapters, and he gets props for being one of the four early units who can use it. One of who is Eliwood, who will be single-attacking more early on, and preferably using Rapier. The other is Marcus. The word "overkill" comes to mind. The last is Matthew.

Lyn and Guy are so equal in almost every single possible scenario, it's not funny.

You keep saying this, then quickly stick your head back in the sand when someone posts numbers that prove that Lyn does perform significantly worse than Guy.

[sandmanccl]

Mekkah, I already told you to just shut the f*** up for being an unlikable cunt.

Your NUMBERS prove she's got, at worst, a 3 point spread in any given stat at any equivalent level, and that's in Defense, a stat that is still pretty awful on Guy.

That's not enough of a spread to be a clear victor in every possible way.

You asshole.

Go back to the cesspool you crawled out of.

[Tino]

Reikken has proven that Guy's durability is twice as good. Where Lyn is 3HKO'd by something, Guy is 6HKO'd. That's quite a clear victory, actually.

Besides, 3 points is in fact quite a lot. That's 6 damage you'll lose out on with a double attack, that's three point less damage you can take, that's 3 more damage you'll take, etc. That's quite a bit.

[sandmanccl]

Not when the only units either of them can attack without risking their necks for the vast majority of the time they are on your team still have enough HP to survive both hits from the stronger unit save for critical hits, and units that have horrifically low chances to hit anyone except your horse units using lances at the time. Before promotion, Guy's crit rating isn't a whole lot better than Lyn's.

[Mekkah]

If you're only going to insult me, why even bother posting? Is that your definition of civil?

Your NUMBERS prove she's got, at worst, a 3 point spread in any given stat at any equivalent level, and that's in Defense, a stat that is still pretty awful on Guy.

My numbers prove Guy is superior in every single way, most notably with like an 8 HP lead.

Again, you don't directly address mine, Reikken's or Tino's comparisons, you just go "they b the same mostly". Yes, their performance is fairly similar if you just throw them against generic Fighter #23, but Guy can do much more than that. Lyn cannot.

[DeSu]

You keep saying this, then quickly stick your head back in the sand when someone posts numbers that prove that Lyn does perform significantly worse than Guy.

This made me lol.

But yeah, Guy is betta cuz he has support with Matthew. And Matthew is awesome.

[ZephyrD]

Mekkah, I already told you to just shut the f*** up for being an unlikable cunt.

Your NUMBERS prove she's got, at worst, a 3 point spread in any given stat at any equivalent level, and that's in Defense, a stat that is still pretty awful on Guy.

That's not enough of a spread to be a clear victor in every possible way.

You asshole.

Go back to the cesspool you crawled out of.

Tossing around insults when people toss statistics at you is a poor way to counter an argument.

Your saying that the stats don't vary much isn't when even Reikken shows that at an equal level that supposedly slight difference in stats is enough for Guy to take twice the beating, and if you're using Guy he will likely be at an even higher level.

Ignoring people's reasonable and accurate points to be like "bawww, Mekkah is a cunt, bawww they're almost the same so Guy isn't better" isn't much of reason for anyone to take you seriously.

[Duff Ostrich]

Mekkah, I already told you to just shut the f*** up for being an unlikable cunt.

Your NUMBERS prove she's got, at worst, a 3 point spread in any given stat at any equivalent level, and that's in Defense, a stat that is still pretty awful on Guy.

That's not enough of a spread to be a clear victor in every possible way.

You asshole.

Go back to the cesspool you crawled out of.

The ad hominem meter is over 9000 here.

Edit: I quoted the wrong guy at first.

Edited November 12, 2008 by Duff Ostrich

[TLSothe]

I never gave Guy a big chance. I used Karel instead. Lyn <333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 Guy ???

[Rei]

sandman... Was the flaming really necessary? It doesn't make your point any more valid. That and the fact you seem to ignore several posts which blatantly prove otherwise.

I never gave Guy a big chance. I used Karel instead. Lyn <333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 Guy ???

Only reason I don't like Karel is because then you miss out on a Brave Sword, and the hax that is Harken of course <3

Edited November 13, 2008 by Rei

[Defeatist Elitist]

Mekkah, I already told you to just shut the f*** up for being an unlikable cunt.

Your NUMBERS prove she's got, at worst, a 3 point spread in any given stat at any equivalent level, and that's in Defense, a stat that is still pretty awful on Guy.

That's not enough of a spread to be a clear victor in every possible way.

You asshole.

Go back to the cesspool you crawled out of.

That's not a road you want to go down. I happen to like Mekkah, and I'm sure a lot of other people to. Go ahead and insult his integrity, say he's inhuman like Swordsalmon, but it's digging your own grave. I have no objections to it, but I will warn you now, it is not going to garner you any support that you might otherwise have gained from people.

Calling someone an inhuman, unlikeable cunt over an argument over a game is not exactly a great position to be in.

[FionordeQuester]

Ok, this is getting ridiculous, Sand, if your not going to directly counter their arguments, then at least admit that they have a point. You can do what you want, but your certainly not proving anything just by repeatedly saying that they are interchangeable. You've certainly done absolutely nothing to sway me over to your side so far.

And that insult to Mekkah was completely uncalled for, he was civilized, calm, and rational throughout this entire debate. If you want my opinion, you only made yourself look like the "one from the inhuman cesspool" with that insult.

[tiger the rocketship]

I use both so that doesn't really bother me.

However in all my playthroughs... Guy has always bested lyn in the strength + speed and defense departments.

resistance + skill are interchangeable between the two (lyn generally gets better resistance gains) but you wouldn't mind.

at 20/3, I placed my Guy in the middle of the map where you get Karel.

I performed something akin of a social experiment.

Needless to say, he got hit once and killed 9-10 enemy units by himself before the rest of my units caught up. And then proceeded to take out enemy Wyverns at will.

Compare that to my Lyn who at level 19/6 died after an encounter with a hero and a sniper in the Lava Cave level.

However, this was only MY experience and of course I can't speak for anyone else.

Edited March 17, 2009 by tiger the rocketship

[Roxas]

dude... necroposting much? XD

w.e its your first post anyway.. >_>

oh crap... is that minimodding? o_o

[tiger the rocketship]

Ah shit... didn't even realise when the last post was, I was just sifting through older pages for interesting topics T_T

[Florete]

This topic has been dead for months. It's done.