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KevinskyHaaz

Duma is Loptyr? (MAJOR SPOILERS for FE4 and Echoes!)

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So, I'm new to the site... not at all new to the games. I've been playing since I was born. I started with 7 and have now made my way through the entire series except for Thracia 776 (for the love of God please link me a working patch). Okay, introductory note aside, I've been doing some thinking. Recently I was listening to Echoes's amazing soundtrack. When I reached the song 'Prince of Darkness', something hit me...

So, we know that Fire Emblems 1/11, 2/Echoes, 3/12, 4, 5, and 13 are all part of the Archanea Timeline. So, certain demons and monsters such as both Loptyr and Duma exist in the same world. Julius was always referred to as the Dark Prince, while Berkut was referred to (through the soundtrack) as the Prince of Darkness. Let's also not forget that when Julius was killed in Genealogy, he morphed into a dragon before he finally bit the dust. So, and I mean to say this is just a thought, is it possible that Duma (having taken the form of a dragon before) is the same Loptyr that Jugdral came to fear? They even both utilize similar fighters on the final levels in their respective games: the Deadlords and the Duma Faithful. Along with that, we learn in Genealogy that Loptyr once ruled some sort of Dark Empire, sounding extremely similar to the land Duma was ruled with an iron fist. 

I'm not saying this has to be the truth, but please use your complete knowledge of the series and really get some good insight into the evidence that supports this. If anybody has some other evidence supporting it or something to put it down, please make a post. Seeya fellahs!

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Duma is a Divine Dragon, Loptyr was an Earth Dragon before he became a Book Spirit thing. Ergo, they are not the same dragon because they are both different species of dragon

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There's another major flaw in your theory:  FE4 takes place around 1000 years before Gaiden/Echoes so Rigel cannot refer to the former Loptyr Empire.

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Duma was divine, while Loptyr was not, so no.

24 minutes ago, KevinskyHaaz said:

\ So, and I mean to say this is just a thought, is it possible that Duma (having taken the form of a dragon before) is the same Loptyr that Jugdral came to fear? They even both utilize similar fighters on the final levels in their respective games: the Deadlords and the Duma Faithful. Along with that, we learn in Genealogy that Loptyr once ruled some sort of Dark Empire, sounding extremely similar to the land Duma was ruled with an iron fist. 

Genealogy occurs about 1000 years before Gaiden, so Rigel isn't the kingdom/empire Genealogy is alluding to. IIRC, Loptyr's empire was about 100-200 years before the events of Genealogy. 

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29 minutes ago, The Geek said:

There's another major flaw in your theory:  FE4 takes place around 1000 years before Gaiden/Echoes so Rigel cannot refer to the former Loptyr Empire.

Can I get proof of that year placement? If I remember right 1000 years before Echoes matches up roughly with Anri slaying Medeus. Also don't Anna and Jake appear in Genealogy? (Checks) Jake does at least, and I assume it's the same Jake. So wouldn't that make Genealogy/Thracia happen either right before or after Echoes?

Anyways I don't think they are the same (Different Dragon names for example) Though I do remember a theory being tossed around that the remnants of the Duma faithful took over the dreadlord control magic and later became the Grima Faithful (due to the Creation in echoes) though that hasn't been confirmed

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4 minutes ago, LucarioGamer812 said:

Can I get proof of that year placement? If I remember right 1000 years before Echoes matches up roughly with Anri slaying Medeus. Also don't Anna and Jake appear in Genealogy? (Checks) Jake does at least, and I assume it's the same Jake. So wouldn't that make Genealogy/Thracia happen either right before or after Echoes?

Anyways I don't think they are the same (Different Dragon names for example) Though I do remember a theory being tossed around that the remnants of the Duma faithful took over the dreadlord control magic and later became the Grima Faithful (due to the Creation in echoes) though that hasn't been confirmed

There is a timeline here https://fireemblemwiki.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Archanea,_Valentia_and_Jugdral

1 hour ago, KevinskyHaaz said:

So, I'm new to the site... not at all new to the games. I've been playing since I was born. I started with 7 and have now made my way through the entire series except for Thracia 776 (for the love of God please link me a working patch). Okay, introductory note aside, I've been doing some thinking. Recently I was listening to Echoes's amazing soundtrack. When I reached the song 'Prince of Darkness', something hit me...

So, we know that Fire Emblems 1/11, 2/Echoes, 3/12, 4, 5, and 13 are all part of the Archanea Timeline. So, certain demons and monsters such as both Loptyr and Duma exist in the same world. Julius was always referred to as the Dark Prince, while Berkut was referred to (through the soundtrack) as the Prince of Darkness. Let's also not forget that when Julius was killed in Genealogy, he morphed into a dragon before he finally bit the dust. So, and I mean to say this is just a thought, is it possible that Duma (having taken the form of a dragon before) is the same Loptyr that Jugdral came to fear? They even both utilize similar fighters on the final levels in their respective games: the Deadlords and the Duma Faithful. Along with that, we learn in Genealogy that Loptyr once ruled some sort of Dark Empire, sounding extremely similar to the land Duma was ruled with an iron fist. 

I'm not saying this has to be the truth, but please use your complete knowledge of the series and really get some good insight into the evidence that supports this. If anybody has some other evidence supporting it or something to put it down, please make a post. Seeya fellahs!

No they are not the same dragon, Duma got corrupted over time while Loptous was already evil thousands years ago.

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3 minutes ago, LucarioGamer812 said:

Can I get proof of that year placement? If I remember right 1000 years before Echoes matches up roughly with Anri slaying Medeus. Also don't Anna and Jake appear in Genealogy? (Checks) Jake does at least, and I assume it's the same Jake. So wouldn't that make Genealogy/Thracia happen either right before or after Echoes?

Anyways I don't think they are the same (Different Dragon names for example) Though I do remember a theory being tossed around that the remnants of the Duma faithful took over the dreadlord control magic and later became the Grima Faithful (due to the Creation in echoes) though that hasn't been confirmed

Anri slayed Medeus 100 years before Echoes, not 1000

498
– Anri, a youth of Altea, a developing town in a remote region, obtains the divine Falchion sword and slays Medeus.

605
– Medeus is defeated by Prince Marth, and the Dolunian Empire collapses.
– End of the War of Shadows (600-605).

Echoes occurs in the year 605 in the Archenean calender, further evidenced by people who fought in the War of Shadows in FE1 appearing alive and well in Echoes and referenceing that very same war

https://serenesforest.net/general/timelines/

The full timeline is right here, Duma =/= Loptyr

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11 minutes ago, LucarioGamer812 said:

Can I get proof of that year placement? If I remember right 1000 years before Echoes matches up roughly with Anri slaying Medeus. Also don't Anna and Jake appear in Genealogy? (Checks) Jake does at least, and I assume it's the same Jake. So wouldn't that make Genealogy/Thracia happen either right before or after Echoes?

Anyways I don't think they are the same (Different Dragon names for example) Though I do remember a theory being tossed around that the remnants of the Duma faithful took over the dreadlord control magic and later became the Grima Faithful (due to the Creation in echoes) though that hasn't been confirmed

You shouldn't use Jake and Anna, since they're sort of series mascots(Well, Anna is, at least). Anna also shows up in Tellius, Elibe and Fates, three completely different universes/dimensions from Jugdral/Archanea/Valentia/Ylisse, AND in and Awakening, which itself is another 2000 years after Marth's time.

Edited by Slumber

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Huh, never knew that is was set that Genealogy/Thracia happened before Anri. Well that's an edit to my timeline theory (doesn't impact much tbh, just their placement)

7 minutes ago, MCProductions said:

Echoes occurs in the year 605 in the Archenean calender, further evidenced by people who fought in the War of Shadows in FE1 appearing alive and well in Echoes and referenceing that very same war

I did know that Echoes takes place after Shadow Dragon, I'm not that daft. (Plus I did play Shadow Dragon and Echoes)

7 minutes ago, Slumber said:

You shouldn't use Jake and Anna, since they're sort of series mascots(Well, Anna is, at least). Anna also shows up in Tellius and Elibe, two completely different universes/dimensions.

That is true, though as you said Anna does appear in those separate universes. I just see Anna as a constant in the many possibilities that is the FE timeline. I honestly think that the timelines all emerged from different events happening during a version of their scouring or something similar, results in different gods being in power, different legendary weapons (such as the presence of the Falchion or an equivalent, like the Tyrfing), different people that resemble each other in different timelines (Harken, Astram, Isadora, Midia, the red/green cavaliers, Wyvern Rider with Wyvern names of other Wyvern Riders) But I guess Jake doesn't confirm it given they didn't even bother to give him his own portrait.

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Just to clarify, I was never assuming that the Loptyrian Empire was a reference to that which Duma created. I was more or so just saying that at some point this Loptyrian Empire could have been resurrected into Rigel. Also, couldn't the idea of Earth Dragons and Divine Dragons just be misunderstood during the time periods of their existence? I mean, if they were so far apart, records would have been pretty different between the endpoints of that interval. 

I think the most convincing argument against what I said is that Duma went insane while Loptyr has always been evil. Still though, I thought it was a really cool idea. Thanks guys!

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