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[SirErrant]

Got some tier 4 skills here:

Breath of Life 4: If unit initiates combat or unit's HP < 100%, restores 9 HP to unit and adjacent allies after combat. 

Savage Blow 4: If unit initiates combat, foes within 2 spaces of target take 9 damage after combat and inflicts 10 damage to target foe.

Brash Assault 4: If unit initiates combat and unit's HP ≤ 75%, unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack.

Windsweep 4: Against foe with sword, lance, axe, bow, or dagger, or beast damage, if unit’s Spd - foe’s Spd ≥ 1, foe can’t counterattack. (Unit can make follow-up attacks.)

Watersweep 4: Against foe with magic, staff or dragonstone, if unit’s Spd - foe’s Spd ≥ 1, foe can’t counterattack. (Unit can make follow-up attacks.)

They're all pretty similar, but the goal is basically to eliminate any major barriers preventing them from being good (Breath of Life now heals yourself, Savage Blow has Poison Touch built into it, Brash Assault works against any enemy, and Windsweep/Watersweep allows for follow-up attacks). What do you guys think? Are these skills too broken now?

[Hilda]

On 7/19/2020 at 6:46 PM, Clear World said:

Triangle Adept 4: Grant unit Weapon Triangle Advantage (WTA) against colorless foes. If unit has WTA, boost Atk modifier by 20%. (Skill no longer modifies Atk if unit has weapon triangle disadvantage.)

Defiant Atk 4: At the start of the turn, grant unit Atk+9 and [Defiant] for a turn. If unit's HP ≤ 50% at the start of the turn, grant allies within 2 spaces Atk+9 and [Defiant] for a turn.

[Defiant] - If unit has an active bonus during combat, neutralize unit's penalty of the same stat during combat.

Earth Boost 4: If unit's HP=100% or if unit's HP ≥ foe's HP at the start of combat, grant unit Def+8 and convert unit's Def penalty into bonuses during combat. Restores 10 HP after combat.

Sorcery Blade 4: If unit is within 2 spaces of a magic ally during combat, calculates damage using the lower of foe's Def or Res and grant unit Special Charge cooldown +1 per unit's attack.

Bonus Doubler 4: Grants bonus to Atk/Spd/Def/Res during combat = current bonus on each of unit's stats. Calculates each stat bonus independently. When a skill compares unit's stat to foe's, unit's bonuses are counted as +100% above actual value. (This skill bonuses may stack with itself.)

A few theoretical tier 4 A-passives for skill-trees that haven't received one yet. Skills within the same family tree will follow the same structure & values. I prefer variety and rather avoid just merely adding more duo stat boosts. Also, it would allow the lesser skills like Defiant Atk 3 or Earth Boost 3 still useful for fodder.

Some minor note: TA4 is designed to actually make Cancel Affinity more practical, Earth Boost is made to closer resemble Mystic Boost, Sorcery Blade is made to closer resemble Heavy Blade & Flashing Blade, and lastly Bonus Doubler didn't receive number buffs because in my opinion, I think tier 4 field buffs should be going up to +9, which will indirectly improve Bonus Doubler.

 

 

Triangle Adept 4: nope to overpowered
Defiant atk 4: that seems ok
Earth Boost 4: too overpowered, if you remove the 10 HP recovery then it would be ok
Sorcery Blade 4: is ok
Bonus Doubler 4: yeah definitly not...

[Hilda]

59 minutes ago, SirErrant said:

Got some tier 4 skills here:

Breath of Life 4: If unit initiates combat or unit's HP < 100%, restores 9 HP to unit and adjacent allies after combat. 

Savage Blow 4: If unit initiates combat, foes within 2 spaces of target take 9 damage after combat and inflicts 10 damage to target foe.

Brash Assault 4: If unit initiates combat and unit's HP ≤ 75%, unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack.

Windsweep 4: Against foe with sword, lance, axe, bow, or dagger, or beast damage, if unit’s Spd - foe’s Spd ≥ 1, foe can’t counterattack. (Unit can make follow-up attacks.)

Watersweep 4: Against foe with magic, staff or dragonstone, if unit’s Spd - foe’s Spd ≥ 1, foe can’t counterattack. (Unit can make follow-up attacks.)

They're all pretty similar, but the goal is basically to eliminate any major barriers preventing them from being good (Breath of Life now heals yourself, Savage Blow has Poison Touch built into it, Brash Assault works against any enemy, and Windsweep/Watersweep allows for follow-up attacks). What do you guys think? Are these skills too broken now?

Savage Blow 4 allowing chip damage on the target itself is too much
Breath of Life 4: it should only be if the unit initiates combat, but change the area effect within 2 spaces and add a debuff remover effect to allies, and remove the self healing. That should be ok.
Brash Assault 4: seems fine
Sweeps: undecided on this one, they could be potentially devestating on certain units, for example Legendary Alm. There should be a built in penalty if you want follow up attacks, like a guard effect, so you need some form of special acceleration (flashing/heavy blade or so) to get your specials ready when you are initiating.

[Clear World]

First responses to the lovely feedback.

2 hours ago, Hilda said:

Triangle Adept 4: nope to overpowered
Defiant atk 4: that seems ok
Earth Boost 4: too overpowered, if you remove the 10 HP recovery then it would be ok
Sorcery Blade 4: is ok
Bonus Doubler 4: yeah definitly not...

I'm actually curious why you think my version of TA4 is 'overpowered'. I admit it is definitely on the stronger side, but its lack of benefits during neutral or disadvantage match-ups doesn't fit with people's typical build focus of making their unit a powerhouse who kills everyone. I would like to hear a bit more details your reason and/or maybe what would be more appropriate. 

For the Earth Boost, hah, never! That recovery is the core to the design and what makes it work. The 'convert penalty to bonus' on the other hand...

Bonus Doubler, for which part? Do you not like the concept of it having a 'phantom bonus' effect as well, or the fact that it stacks. I merely think the stacking is too much, and goes against it's namesake as 'doubler'.  

I ask, would you kindly relook at my Earth Boost & Bonus Doubler as I made nerfs to them. I personally just want some feedback on those two skills as I'm nowhere set on them, unlike the other three skills I made.

3 hours ago, SirErrant said:

Got some tier 4 skills here:

Brash Assault 4: If unit initiates combat and unit's HP ≤ 75%, unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack.

Windsweep 4: Against foe with sword, lance, axe, bow, or dagger, or beast damage, if unit’s Spd - foe’s Spd ≥ 1, foe can’t counterattack. (Unit can make follow-up attacks.)

Watersweep 4: Against foe with magic, staff or dragonstone, if unit’s Spd - foe’s Spd ≥ 1, foe can’t counterattack. (Unit can make follow-up attacks.)

They're all pretty similar, but the goal is basically to eliminate any major barriers preventing them from being good (Breath of Life now heals yourself, Savage Blow has Poison Touch built into it, Brash Assault works against any enemy, and Windsweep/Watersweep allows for follow-up attacks). What do you guys think? Are these skills too broken now?

I have no new comment on BoL4 & SB 4 as they fall in line with Hilda's comments.

I personally don't like your design of BA4, merely because it drops aspects I think that should stay and making it too 'simplistic' for my taste. Though it's fine in terms of power level.

I have issues with your sweeps 4, and completely dropping the 'prevent follow-up attack' makes this skill near overpowered. Hilda pointed a good example, but that more or less applies to most case who can basically double. Considering how Distant Counter/Close Counter have remained top tier skills since the game's launch, an effect to 'prevent counter-attacks' is extremely powerful and shouldn't be this easily to achievable. Also, it would be a more achievable compared to Desperation (less Spd required and no HP condition), while having a much stronger effect (though limited who it works against). In regards to Hilda's comment, I think it would be extremely strange to remove one type of 'drawback' to then add a completely different 'drawback'. In other words, I think the 'negate unit's follow-up attack' should remain in the sweep skills in some fashion, even though I am aware your purpose was to remove that 'drawback'.

For example (this would be my version of sweep):  If unit initiates combat against foe that uses a [physical or magical weapon type], and if unit's Spd+5 > foe's Spd, foe cannot counter-attack and unit cannot make a follow-up attack.

[Hilda]

@Clear WorldThe whole point of Triangle Adept is to give a unit a clear advantage in a match up. What is wrong with your Tier 4 skill is: It suddenly also gives advantage over Colorless units and removes the penalty to the bad matchup which is imho nuts. If anything Triangle Adept 4 should be like Triangle Adept 3 but with have a built in breaker skill for the match ups you have Triangle advantage over.
For colorless units there are Raventomes, thats their niche

Yeah think about Earth Boost 4 + Mystic Boost combined. 16 HP healed after combat, oh wait 14 HP healed after combat. Then tackle on a weapon that heals during combat. The amount of self healing is too much. I dont mind the other parts, hell it could be a Earth/Water boost combined with the same effects, but no healing i would be fine, because it actually then requires a partysetup with some form of healer.

[XRay]

27 minutes ago, Hilda said:

Yeah think about Earth Boost 4 + Mystic Boost combined. 16 HP healed after combat, oh wait 14 HP healed after combat. Then tackle on a weapon that heals during combat. The amount of self healing is too much. I dont mind the other parts, hell it could be a Earth/Water boost combined with the same effects, but no healing i would be fine, because it actually then requires a partysetup with some form of healer.

The healing is fine. Even if Intelligent Systems releases Earth Boost 4 as that, no one is going to use it because it is still mired by stat comparisons as the additional activation requirement only works for the unit's first round of combat. There is no guarantee that the healing is going to offset the damage output of nukes.

Even if you crank that healing up to 20 HP after combat, it still would not be enough.

Edited July 22, 2020 by XRay

[Hilda]

6 minutes ago, XRay said:

The healing is fine. Even if Intelligent Systems releases Earth Boost 4 as that, no one is going to use it because it is still mired by stat comparisons as the additional activation requirement only works for the unit's first round of combat. There is no guarantee that the healing is going to offset the damage output of nukes.

Even if you crank that healing up to 20 HP after combat, it still would not be enough.

sorry but your usual ideas of "balance" are so off that i cant take this comment as serious.

[XRay]

2 minutes ago, Hilda said:

sorry but your usual ideas of "balance" are so off that i cant take this comment as serious.

Then give me an example where after combat healing is a viable and consistent skill effect or strategy in PvP or Abyssal.

No meta builds I recall use it. Mystic Boost at best is niche skill for Miracle spam. After combat healing is simply shit, unless it is a full heal or something close to it. Damage mitigation/prevention/reduction is always better than after combat healing. After combat healing does nothing for a unit in combat, whereas damage mitigation does. No amount of healing is going to bring back a dead unit.

Or put it another way, are you honestly going to use Earth Boost 4 instead of using Bracing Stance 3? Bracing Stance 3 got guaranteed Def/Res+6 with Guard effect to top it off. If anything Earth Boost 4 is still underpowered.

10 HP is insignificant at best. Even 20 HP is nothing. 20 HP is not just peanuts compared to the damage output of nukes, it is stale peanuts because the unit is dead and the effect is too late to do anything.

[Hilda]

18 minutes ago, XRay said:

Then give me an example where after combat healing is a viable and consistent skill effect or strategy in PvP or Abyssal.

No meta builds I recall use it. Mystic Boost at best is niche skill for Miracle spam. After combat healing is simply shit, unless it is a full heal or something close to it. Damage mitigation/prevention/reduction is always better than after combat healing. After combat healing does nothing for a unit in combat, whereas damage mitigation does. No amount of healing is going to bring back a dead unit.

Or put it another way, are you honestly going to use Earth Boost 4 instead of using Bracing Stance 3? Bracing Stance 3 got guaranteed Def/Res+6 with Guard effect to top it off. If anything Earth Boost 4 is still underpowered.

10 HP is insignificant at best. Even 20 HP is nothing. 20 HP is not just peanuts compared to the damage output of nukes, it is stale peanuts because the unit is dead and the effect is too late to do anything.

I give you a hint: this is a A Slot healing skill, guess which slot the new damage mitgation skills are allocated at. this is just one example. The fact the unit doesnt even need to attack to for it to recieve 10 HP back should be alerting to you. But again, your idea of "balance" is just way out there... on another galaxy

[XRay]

37 minutes ago, Hilda said:

I give you a hint: this is a A Slot healing skill, guess which slot the new damage mitgation skills are allocated at. this is just one example. The fact the unit doesnt even need to attack to for it to recieve 10 HP back should be alerting to you. But again, your idea of "balance" is just way out there... on another galaxy

Spurn/Close Call/Repel is not the end-all-be-all of B skills. It is difficult to Spd stack outside of Aether Raids, and even in Aether Raids, Spurn is not that stellar on anyone except BH!Ike. Spurn is not going to save a tank from SK!Alm and QOV!Celica, and good luck with maintaining Drives when the super tank gets Dragged Back or Lunged. Spurn is good, but it is not that good.

And do you honestly think any player is going to give up Def/Res+6 for not even a guaranteed Def+8, and give up Guard for a measly 10 HP? Shutting down Moonbow/Ruptured Sky is already preventing at least 15 damage for the average super tank. That is a huge opportunity cost that you are not factoring into your consideration.

If you are not even giving a straight answer whether you would use Earth Boost 4 over Bracing Stance 3, that is saying how shit after combat healing is already.

Edited July 22, 2020 by XRay

[Clear World]

@Hilda Let's first start with TA4. I understand where you're coming from (because it's a common suggestion), but here are some points I have against it and to help illustrate why I went down my path.

• Most people wouldn't bother trying to acquire/fodder for a version like what you suggest. It's overkill in a "match-up the hero should already be winning while being useless or worse, negatively impact you in all other situations". 
• Tier 4 skills are premium, hard to acquire, therefore rare skills. It's reasonable to think there will be a lot of people who will never even have a single copy of it. Therefore, it seems wasteful to give it to someone you aren't keenly invested in, but at the same time, it doesn't seem worthwhile to pin-hole that hero into only one match-up that, I will repeat, "a match-up the hero should already be winning". If the skill was easily acquirable like TA3, it would fine. But it wouldn't, so it's an issue in my view.
• To add to the point above, it's hard to imagine people intentionally spending orbs to acquire a version of your TA4 (assuming they actually have a budget). Realistically, I would think a person would want a skill like that for a full support hero, like a dancer, but then, I would think a duel skill would be much preferred for actual scoring purposes since direct combat isn't a priority.
• I find it amusing you have issues with "[TA4] suddenly gives advantage to colorless & remove penalty to bad match-up", when you then out-of-nowhere grant a effect that has nothing to do with the skill beforehand. I like to say, at least my stayed within the affinity mechanic. It is more likely to be overtuned, but I can accept that because...
• My last but important point, I kept Cancel Affinity (CA) in mind, a skill you can acquire at 4-stars that is specifically designed to counter TA. I actually want to make CA viable, but that can only happen if TA is used more often. Your suggested version makes CA outright worthless as even if it can neutralize the damage modifier, the breaker effect would crush the CA user. I like my counters to be actual counters to the skill they are supposed to counter.

[Clear World]

15 hours ago, Hilda said:

Yeah think about Earth Boost 4 + Mystic Boost combined. 16 HP healed after combat, oh wait 14 HP healed after combat. Then tackle on a weapon that heals during combat. The amount of self healing is too much. I dont mind the other parts, hell it could be a Earth/Water boost combined with the same effects, but no healing i would be fine, because it actually then requires a partysetup with some form of healer.

You seem to treat as if healing after combat makes your hero invincible during combat. If anything, healing during combat is far more problematic than healing after combat. I mean, I get the notion that a sustain tank can be problematic, but the issue I have with that thinking is... the game's meta is basically, 'if two hero engage in combat, one of them will die during that combat', therefore taking little to no damage or surviving combat shouldn't be a given.

Also, I personally avoid making duo boost & duo defiant skills because if you do that, heroes with like Earth boost 3 would be basically useless for fodder. You couldn't even use it go get to tier 3 before inheriting the tier 4 version. Also, consider how poorly received tier 3 push skills were received, I don't want to make healers a requirement for the skill.

Now, I'm not @XRay, and I do see the strength in the healing after combat, which is why I feel comfortable in letting the combat benefits in my Earth Boost 4 not be guarantee but decent when active. Any out of combat damage, such as AoE specials, traps, bolt tower, or chip damage could cause the hero to fall below the HP check. Damage sustain during combat will only make it less reliable. Obviously, this also works in reverse if the opponent is being chipped.

So even if the hero had one of those Dodge skills, like Spurn, and only took a total of 10 damage after recovery, that is still damage, and any damage sustained makes it possible for the hero to not any combat benefit from their A-slot for the next engagement. 

Is that a trade-off people are willing to make for a guarantee heal after battle? I would hope the answer would be 'maybe' or depends on their hero's build. If it's usually yes, then it's overtuned overall.

[XRay]

2 hours ago, Clear World said:

Is that a trade-off people are willing to make for a guarantee heal after battle? I would hope the answer would be 'maybe' or depends on their hero's build. If it's usually yes, then it's overtuned overall.

The answer would be no.

The thing with Earth Boost 4 is that it faces heavy competition from better skills. Steady Stance 4 is guaranteed to provide the exact same stat boost and has Guard on top; and now that dual stat Stances are out, there is not any point in running Steady Stance either. Not only are Earth Boost requirements extremely onerous, once those requirements are met, it does not provide a higher stat boost nor enough additional effects to compensate for that difficulty. The guaranteed heal amount is so low and insignificant that having the Guard effect to prevent that damage in the first place is a better option since preventing damage actually helps prevents dying; even if the heal is bumped to 20, I do not think that is enough to compensate for the fact that the tank has serious combat performance issues as the tank has absolutely nothing outside of a stat boost for protection. This is the same problem with Forms as no one is going to run a Form skill with its onerous activation requirement, and once it is active, the stat boost it provides is capped at 7 for no freaking reason, making it point less to run it when you can just run a dual stat Stance instead.

There is no reason to run Earth Boost in Infernal, let alone Abyssal, because enemies have vastly higher HP stats. In Aether Raids, Earth Boost is competing with Distant Counter and Stances, and I do not think anyone is going to risk having worse combat performance for after combat healing to fix that deficiency. Reducing damage prevents the unit from dying in the first place while fixing damage does not.

[MilodicMellodi]

I thought I'd try my hand at those skills there. Too much time on my hands and I'm bored lol 

Triangle Adept 4: Gives Atk +20% during combat unit has weapon-triangle advantage, Atk +15% if neutrality, or Atk -20% if disadvantage.
Sometimes the best upgrades are the simplest. I gave it an effect that gives you a reduced damage increase against weapon-triangle neutrality, giving you a damage boost against at least 3 of the 4 available colors out there. And it only helps Raven tomes, since it doesn't add a redundant "WTA against colorless" effect or anything of the sort.

Defiant Atk 4: At start of turn, if unit's max HP < foe's max HP, grants Atk +7 for 1 turn, and if unit's current HP ≤ 50% foe's max HP, grants unit Atk +7 during combat.
If the unit has less max HP than the opponent, they get a field bonus of Atk +7. If the unit's current HP is less than or equal to half the opponent's max HP, they get an additional combat bonus of Atk +7, for a total of +14.
Here's an example. Unit A has 40 max HP, Unit B has 45 max HP. Since the unit's max HP is less than the opponent's, they get Atk +7. Since their current HP isn't ≤ half the foe's max HP, they don't get the combat bonus.
Example 2: Unit A has 25/40 HP, Unit B has 50 max HP. Since the unit's max HP is less than the opponent's, they get Atk +7, and since their current HP's ≤ half the opponent's max, they also get the combat bonus for a total of +14 Atk.
Example 3: Unit A has 20/45 HP, unit B has 45 max HP. Since the unit's max HP isn't lower than the opponent's, they don't get the field bonus, but since their current HP's ≤ half the opponent's max, they get the combat bonus.
Mainly, this would be a great A Passive for Desperation-based units, especially those that have less max HP to start out with.

Earth Boost 4: At start of combat, if unit's max HP > foe's HP, grants Def+8 during combat, and if unit's max HP ≥ foe's HP +5, restores 6 HP to unit after combat.
Random little idea I had for it. Has the same kind of effect everyone's been doing for Boost 4 skill ideas, but my twist gives the unit Mystic Boost's HP regen effect if the unit's max HP is at least 5 higher than the foe's current HP at the start of combat. It rewards units with naturally high HP, while still being very useful to those with a bit less.
And it can combine with said Mystic Boost for a total 12 HP restored after combat, making the unit capable of self-sustaining pretty well if it can defend itself well enough. It's not as powerful as the 10 HP bit, but it's balanced enough.
EDIT: I didn't see that this was already done above...so ignore this lol

Sorcery Blade 4: At start of combat, if unit is adjacent to a magic ally, calculates damage using the lower of foe's Def or Res - 2, and deals +2 damage during combat x the number of magic allies adjacent to unit (max +6).
Effectively inflicts Def/Res-2 on the foe during combat on top of the adaptive damage effect, and also grants a flat damage boost that increases its effectiveness with more adjacent magic allies. At its max effectiveness, you deal +6 damage (which really adds to +8 damage when taking the debuff into consideration). The -2 Def/Res isn't even a debuff, since the damage is calculated as though the lower stat was 2 less than normal, rather than actually inflicting a stat penalty.

Bonus Doubler 4: Grants bonus to Atk/Spd/Def/Res during combat = highest bonus on unit. If bonuses on unit granted by this skill total ≥ 24, neutralizes unit's penalties during combat.
So the unit gets access to a self-based refined-Seiglinde effect. In addition, if the bonuses this skill grants total to equal or more than 24 (spreading a field bonus of at least 6 to each stat as a combat bonus), the unit's penalties are nullified. So...it essentially removes the need to have Legendary!Azura on your team, and allows for many units to start acting more independent from their allies.
Note that, like Bonus Doubler 3, this only gives the unit combat bonuses, and doesn't improve upon their field bonuses. So Blade tomes still can't take any kind of unfair advantage of it.

I'll do some other Tier 4s too, in the spoiler below.

Spoiler

Wrathful Staff 4: Damage from unit's staff will be calculated the same as other weapons. If unit initiates combat, grants [Wrathful Serenity] through unit's next action after combat. [Wrathful Serenity: Restores 1.2x HP to target ally when healing target ally with a staff.]
Applies a status effect bonus to the unit that improves on their healing through their next action after they make use of their improved damage output in battle. This makes the unit more effective as a healer, but also entices you to have your healer take part in battling.

Dazzling Staff 4: The enemy cannot counterattack. If unit heals target ally with a staff, grants [Dazzling Pulse] through unit's next action. [Dazzling Pulse: Unit deals +5 damage during combat.]
Applies a status effect bonus to the unit that slightly improves their damage output after they heal an ally, while also keeping the Dazzling effect that prevents your foe's counterattack. When combined with their staff's Wrathful refine, they can take a greater offensive role in combat.

Mystic Boost 4: Disables foe's skills that "calculate damage using the lower of foe's Def or Res" and "calculate damage from staff like other weapons". Restores 8 HP after combat. Grants [Mystic Blessing] to unit while unit's HP = 100%. [Mystic Blessing: Unit takes 4 less damage during combat. If unit has a Mythic Effect or Mythic Blessing during the correct season, unit takes 8 less damage instead.]
Restores 2 more HP than its Tier 3 counterpart, and also applies a status effect bonus called Mystic Blessing to the unit if they have full HP. This bonus causes them to take less damage, but doubles this if the unit is a Mythic Hero (or has a Mythic Blessing) that matches the current season. This skill would fit right at home in Aether Raids, and promotes Mystic Boost as a purely defensive skill.

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by MilodicMellodi

[Jotari]

On 6/15/2020 at 7:11 AM, Hilda said:

I like the idea but it needs to be executed differently kinda. There are many times where you do not want to swap/change places with allies after a healing. This would work great if they were introduced as a "Duo-Skill"-Exclusiv button skill for healers, where they can toogle the skill on and off. That way Healers can still use the Healing Assist they want and have a side bonus.

 

On 7/19/2020 at 4:38 AM, SirErrant said:

Not gonna lie, that's pretty cool. It would be really nice to have a positional assist on a healer and have the warp and rescue staffs from the mainline FE games be represented in FEH at the same time. I think Hilda has a point though, since you're not always going to want to use a positional assist while healing 24/7, so there should be a way to toggle it on and off. 

How about this?

Warp: Push ally one squares away and restore Hp=50% Atk +10. At start of turn, restores 10HP to unit and adjacent allies.

Warp+: Push ally two squares away and restore Hp=50% Atk +10. At start of turn, restores 10HP to unit and adjacent allies.

Rescue: Target ally moves to opposite side of unit and restores Hp=50% Atk +10. At start of turn, restores 10HP to unit and adjacent allies.

Rewarp: Unit moves to opposite side of target ally and restores Hp=50% Atk +10. At start of turn, restores 10HP to unit and adjacent allies.

Shift: Swap places with target ally and restores Hp=50% Atk +10. At start of turn, restores 10HP to unit and adjacent allies.

Return: Moves user one space from targeted ally, then moves targeted ally into user's previous space and restores Hp=50% Atk +10. At start of turn, restores 10HP to unit and adjacent allies.

So the complaint before was that these make the staff users unable to heal without moving an ally which you might not want. My solution here is to give them all a passive healing effect too, partially inspired by how you can self heal using staves in Radiant Dawn at the start of a turn. So while they might not be able to critically heal allies in the middle of a turn without moving them around, they do provide passive healing each turn. This won't make them as effective healers as actual dedicated healers, but that's a little bit the point. They can't heal as well as other staffs, but they can heal and move allies. Which, while niche, could come be very effective in certain battles.

 

[SirErrant]

On 7/21/2020 at 4:58 PM, Hilda said:

Savage Blow 4 allowing chip damage on the target itself is too much
Breath of Life 4: it should only be if the unit initiates combat, but change the area effect within 2 spaces and add a debuff remover effect to allies, and remove the self healing. That should be ok.

How about this: 

Savage Blow 4: If unit initiates combat, foes within 2 spaces of target take 9 damage after combat and inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res-2 on said foes through their next actions.

Breath of Life 4: If unit initiates combat, restores 9 HP to allies within two spaces after combat and neutralizes penalties on said allies that last through allies' next actions. 

Makes both of these even clearer parallels to each other: Savage Blow inflicts penalties, and Breath of Life neutralizes penalties. 

 

I have no idea how to fix what I did for the Windsweep/Watersweep skills, so I'm not even going to try.

[SirErrant]

On 7/22/2020 at 1:29 AM, Hilda said:

The whole point of Triangle Adept is to give a unit a clear advantage in a match up. What is wrong with your Tier 4 skill is: It suddenly also gives advantage over Colorless units and removes the penalty to the bad matchup which is imho nuts. If anything Triangle Adept 4 should be like Triangle Adept 3 but with have a built in breaker skill for the match ups you have Triangle advantage over.

@Hilda I agree that giving an advantage over colorless units is kinda broken, but removing the penalty is fine, considering that it is a Tier 4 skill and removing the effect wouldn't suddenly make TA4 a completely broken skill. In contrast, giving TA4 a breaker skill would actually be pretty broken: can you imagine what a Reinhardt with TA4, Desperation, and Hone Cav buffs could do to literally any red unit?

Clear World's TA4 intentionally making Cancel Affinity more relevant is a nice touch, too.

14 hours ago, MilodicMellodi said:

Earth Boost 4: At start of combat, if unit's max HP > foe's HP, grants Def+8 during combat, and if unit's max HP ≥ foe's HP +5, restores 6 HP to unit after combat.
Random little idea I had for it. Has the same kind of effect everyone's been doing for Boost 4 skill ideas, but my twist gives the unit Mystic Boost's HP regen effect if the unit's max HP is at least 5 higher than the foe's current HP at the start of combat. It rewards units with naturally high HP, while still being very useful to those with a bit less.
And it can combine with said Mystic Boost for a total 12 HP restored after combat, making the unit capable of self-sustaining pretty well if it can defend itself well enough. It's not as powerful as the 10 HP bit, but it's balanced enough

Honestly, I like MilodicMellodi's version of Earth Boost 4 the best. It keeps the concept of self-healing intact, but adding an HP check keeps it from being too powerful and stays true to the idea of Earth Boost. Also like that it checks unit's max HP. Of course, you wouldn't be able to use this that effectively in modes with stupidly inflated HP, but that's more of an innate problem with HP checks than anything else. 

12 hours ago, Jotari said:

Warp: Push ally one squares away and restore Hp=50% Atk +10. At start of turn, restores 10HP to unit and adjacent allies.

Warp+: Push ally two squares away and restore Hp=50% Atk +10. At start of turn, restores 10HP to unit and adjacent allies.

Rescue: Target ally moves to opposite side of unit and restores Hp=50% Atk +10. At start of turn, restores 10HP to unit and adjacent allies.

Rewarp: Unit moves to opposite side of target ally and restores Hp=50% Atk +10. At start of turn, restores 10HP to unit and adjacent allies.

Shift: Swap places with target ally and restores Hp=50% Atk +10. At start of turn, restores 10HP to unit and adjacent allies.

Return: Moves user one space from targeted ally, then moves targeted ally into user's previous space and restores Hp=50% Atk +10. At start of turn, restores 10HP to unit and adjacent allies.

Um... I like the idea of adjacent healing, but self-healing might be a little too much. Actually, 10 HP might be a little too much too. Maybe more like 5 HP?

 

While we're talking about staffs and HP checks, what about an inheritable version of Bridal Fjorm's staff, Gjallarbru?

Solitude: 5 might. After combat, inflicts [Isolation] on target foe. 

Solitude+: 10 might. At start of turn, inflicts [Isolation] on foes in cardinal directions with foe's HP <= unit's HP-3.

It'd be cool to put Solitude on staff units with high HP, like Summer Rhys, Azama, and Emmeryn, so that their HP actually becomes a somewhat important stat.

[Topaz Light]

Starlight (Non-inheritable Blue Tome Weapon): 8 Might. Inflicts Res-3 on foe and neutralizes foe's bonuses to Res (from skills like Fortify, Rally, etc.) during combat. Disables opponent's "Guard" and "reduction of incoming damage by X%".
*Skills like Deflect Magic, Close Call, Urvan, Aegis, etc. will not reduce damage taken from a unit wielding Starlight. However, other effects of those skills, such as Close Call causing its user to move one space back after combat they initiated, are not affected.

Alternatively, or perhaps additionally but for a different unit...
Lightsphere (Non-inheritable B skill): Inflicts Def/Res-3 on foe and neutralizes foe's bonuses to Def/Res (from skills like Fortify, Rally, etc.) during combat. Disables opponent's "Guard" and "reduction of incoming damage by X%".*
*Skills like Deflect Magic, Close Call, Urvan, Aegis, etc. will not reduce damage taken from a unit equipped with this skill. However, other effects of those skills, such as Close Call causing its user to move one space back after combat they initiated, are not affected.

Foul Play (Non-Staff Assist skill): It's just Swap but with Physic range.

Anew (Non-inheritable Staff Assist skill): Restores HP = 50% of Atk -10. Grants another action to target ally. (Minimum of 7 HP restored. Allies with Sing or Dance will not be granted another action. This skill is treated as Sing or Dance.)

Guard 4 (B skill): Inflicts Special cooldown charge -1 on foe per attack. (Only highest value applied. Does not stack.)
(Basically just removes the HP requirement since there are other skills with no HP requirements that grant the same effects as Guard while also doing other things.)

That's all I got for now.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Topaz Light

[MilodicMellodi]

14 hours ago, SirErrant said:

Honestly, I like MilodicMellodi's version of Earth Boost 4 the best. It keeps the concept of self-healing intact, but adding an HP check keeps it from being too powerful and stays true to the idea of Earth Boost. Also like that it checks unit's max HP. Of course, you wouldn't be able to use this that effectively in modes with stupidly inflated HP, but that's more of an innate problem with HP checks than anything else. 

Do you have any opinions/criticisms on my other skill ideas? I'd love to see them ^.^

14 hours ago, SirErrant said:

While we're talking about staffs and HP checks, what about an inheritable version of Bridal Fjorm's staff, Gjallarbru?

Solitude: 5 might. After combat, inflicts [Isolation] on target foe. 

Solitude+: 10 might. At start of turn, inflicts [Isolation] on foes in cardinal directions with foe's HP <= unit's HP-3.

It'd be cool to put Solitude on staff units with high HP, like Summer Rhys, Azama, and Emmeryn, so that their HP actually becomes a somewhat important stat.

I like the idea, but I think the problem would be Isolation itself. Putting that onto an inheritable staff seems a bit unbalanced, at least in that form.
I think a weaker form of Isolation would work, like one that prevents the unit from being Danced on, or maybe Rally'd on? Essentially, something that would prove incredibly useful as Isolation is, but isn't strong enough to make Bridal!Fjorm obsolete.

12 hours ago, Topaz Light said:

Anew (Non-inheritable Staff Assist skill): Restores HP = 50% of Atk -10. Grants another action to target ally. (Minimum of 7 HP restored. Cannot target an ally with Sing or Dance. This skill is treated as Sing or Dance.)

I wonder if it would be too powerful if it said "Does not grant another action to target ally with Sing or Dance." instead of outright preventing the ally from being targeted. A healing skill preventing itself from healing certain units makes itself less appealing than other skills that can target those units.

 

Anyhow, might as well come up with a new skill while I'm here.

Spoiler

Lunar Sonata
B Passive
Exclusive
Effect: If Sing or Dance is used, target also granted [Moonlight] through their next action. [Moonlight: If unit's Special triggers by attacking, treats foe's Def/Res as if ignored by 10% if Special triggers. (Stacks with similar effects.)]
Effectively grants the target ally a weakened version of the first half of Lunar Flash for their Special. Note that this status effect disappears after the target makes their next action, regardless of whether their Special was activated. It also stacks with similar effects — meaning that it stacks with New Moon, Moonbow, Luna, Aether (and its other forms), Black Luna, Lunar Flash, and anything I'm not thinking of right now.
The reason why it's 10% and not higher is because it's a status effect applied by a dancer and doesn't have a OPT (once per turn) clause (look at Galeforce), which means that it can be applied multiple times per turn with the proper team composition. While the manner of this application means that Lunar Sonata's effect will never be able to stack with itself, it's still the fact that multiple copies of the unit that uses it would be able to apply it to that unit. So having it at 10% seems like the best call for now. There's also the fact that since Black Luna exists, it just can't be too high. Having it at 20% would either make it 100% (additive) or 96% (multiplicative), but having it at 10% makes it either 90% (additive) or 88% (multiplicative) which is...well, a lot better.

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by MilodicMellodi

[SirErrant]

On 7/23/2020 at 3:25 PM, Topaz Light said:

Starlight (Non-inheritable Blue Tome Weapon): 8 Might. Inflicts Res-3 on foe and neutralizes foe's bonuses to Res (from skills like Fortify, Rally, etc.) during combat. Disables opponent's "Guard" and "reduction of incoming damage by X%".
*Skills like Deflect Magic, Close Call, Urvan, Aegis, etc. will not reduce damage taken from a unit wielding Starlight. However, other effects of those skills, such as Close Call causing its user to move one space back after combat they initiated, are not affected.

Alternatively, or perhaps additionally but for a different unit...
Lightsphere (Non-inheritable B skill): Inflicts Def/Res-3 on foe and neutralizes foe's bonuses to Def/Res (from skills like Fortify, Rally, etc.) during combat. Disables opponent's "Guard" and "reduction of incoming damage by X%".*
*Skills like Deflect Magic, Close Call, Urvan, Aegis, etc. will not reduce damage taken from a unit equipped with this skill. However, other effects of those skills, such as Close Call causing its user to move one space back after combat they initiated, are not affected.

Coooool. With CC/Repel/Spurn tanks becoming more relevant, as well as Brave Ike being a thing, it'd be nice to have a skill that would neutralize these effects. Blue tome would be the best weapon against speed tanks (since most of them are red), so I can see why you'd choose that. 

On 7/23/2020 at 3:25 PM, Topaz Light said:

Guard 4 (B skill): Inflicts Special cooldown charge -1 on foe per attack. (Only highest value applied. Does not stack.)
(Basically just removes the HP requirement since there are other skills with no HP requirements that grant the same effects as Guard while also doing other things.)

Yep. Like MilodicMellodi said, sometimes the simplest improvements are the best ones. If you wanted to make it really broken though (for funsies), you could make Guard inflict the penalty on target foe plus foes within 2 spaces. 

On 7/23/2020 at 3:25 PM, Topaz Light said:

Anew (Non-inheritable Staff Assist skill): Restores HP = 50% of Atk -10. Grants another action to target ally. (Minimum of 7 HP restored. Cannot target an ally with Sing or Dance. This skill is treated as Sing or Dance.)

14 hours ago, MilodicMellodi said:

I wonder if it would be too powerful if it said "Does not grant another action to target ally with Sing or Dance." instead of outright preventing the ally from being targeted. A healing skill preventing itself from healing certain units makes itself less appealing than other skills that can target those units.

Wow, didn't notice that you couldn't target refreshers at all. Whether intentional or not, that'd be a good way to balance the skill, I guess, although most of the time you don't really need to heal a dancer. Either they're mostly support units (meaning that they won't see combat and thus won't need healing) or combat hybrids who usually use Desperation and don't want healing for the most part.

I wonder if you should lower the amount of healing Anew offers, basically making it a tradeoff between better healing and heal + dance. I honestly don't think it's necessary, though.

14 hours ago, MilodicMellodi said:

Lunar Sonata
B Passive
Exclusive
Effect: If Sing or Dance is used, target also granted [Moonlight] through their next action. [Moonlight: If unit's Special triggers by attacking, treats foe's Def/Res as if ignored by 10% if Special triggers. (Stacks with similar effects.)]
Effectively grants the target ally a weakened version of the first half of Lunar Flash for their Special. Note that this status effect disappears after the target makes their next action, regardless of whether their Special was activated. It also stacks with similar effects — meaning that it stacks with New Moon, Moonbow, Luna, Aether (and its other forms), Black Luna, Lunar Flash, and anything I'm not thinking of right now.
The reason why it's 10% and not higher is because it's a status effect applied by a dancer and doesn't have a OPT (once per turn) clause (look at Galeforce), which means that it can be applied multiple times per turn with the proper team composition. While the manner of this application means that Lunar Sonata's effect will never be able to stack with itself, it's still the fact that multiple copies of the unit that uses it would be able to apply it to that unit. So having it at 10% seems like the best call for now. There's also the fact that since Black Luna exists, it just can't be too high. Having it at 20% would either make it 100% (additive) or 96% (multiplicative), but having it at 10% makes it either 90% (additive) or 88% (multiplicative) which is...well, a lot better.

I like this skill, but is there really much incentive to use it on a dancer versus Wings of Mercy? I understand that the effect should be pretty low (because balance), but it still doesn't seem like enough. (Love your name for the skill and effect, by the way. Is Lunar Sonata and Moonlight a reference to Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata?)

 

As a follow-up to Lunar Sonata, how about Solar Serenade?

Solar Serenade: If Sing or Dance is used, grants target [Solstice] through their next action. [Solstice]: If unit's Special triggers, restores HP = 25% of damage dealt. (Stacks with similar effects.)

I liked the amount of healing that Duo Alfonse's Open the Future special gave, so I just went with that. Slightly less than Noontime, but still enough to heal a sizable amount.

[Jotari]

18 hours ago, MilodicMellodi said:

Do you have any opinions/criticisms on my other skill ideas? I'd love to see them ^.^

I like the idea, but I think the problem would be Isolation itself. Putting that onto an inheritable staff seems a bit unbalanced, at least in that form.
I think a weaker form of Isolation would work, like one that prevents the unit from being Danced on, or maybe Rally'd on? Essentially, something that would prove incredibly useful as Isolation is, but isn't strong enough to make Bridal!Fjorm obsolete.

I wonder if it would be too powerful if it said "Does not grant another action to target ally with Sing or Dance." instead of outright preventing the ally from being targeted. A healing skill preventing itself from healing certain units makes itself less appealing than other skills that can target those units.

 

Anyhow, might as well come up with a new skill while I'm here.

  Reveal hidden contents

Lunar Sonata
B Passive
Exclusive
Effect: If Sing or Dance is used, target also granted [Moonlight] through their next action. [Moonlight: If unit's Special triggers by attacking, treats foe's Def/Res as if ignored by 10% if Special triggers. (Stacks with similar effects.)]
Effectively grants the target ally a weakened version of the first half of Lunar Flash for their Special. Note that this status effect disappears after the target makes their next action, regardless of whether their Special was activated. It also stacks with similar effects — meaning that it stacks with New Moon, Moonbow, Luna, Aether (and its other forms), Black Luna, Lunar Flash, and anything I'm not thinking of right now.
The reason why it's 10% and not higher is because it's a status effect applied by a dancer and doesn't have a OPT (once per turn) clause (look at Galeforce), which means that it can be applied multiple times per turn with the proper team composition. While the manner of this application means that Lunar Sonata's effect will never be able to stack with itself, it's still the fact that multiple copies of the unit that uses it would be able to apply it to that unit. So having it at 10% seems like the best call for now. There's also the fact that since Black Luna exists, it just can't be too high. Having it at 20% would either make it 100% (additive) or 96% (multiplicative), but having it at 10% makes it either 90% (additive) or 88% (multiplicative) which is...well, a lot better.

 

Youre probably not going to field two dancers at once anyway so having it not affect other dancers isn't too big a problem.

[Topaz Light]

20 hours ago, SirErrant said:

Coooool. With CC/Repel/Spurn tanks becoming more relevant, as well as Brave Ike being a thing, it'd be nice to have a skill that would neutralize these effects. Blue tome would be the best weapon against speed tanks (since most of them are red), so I can see why you'd choose that.

Actually... I just made Starlight a Blue Tome because it seems like it'd be a Light spell if it existed in a game with the Trinity of Magic, plus I wanted it to have WTA against Gharnef. I considered making it a Colorless Tome as well, actually, although it having WTA against the majority of units who naturally have Close Call/Repel/Spurn is a nice little benefit to it!

[SirErrant]

18 hours ago, Jotari said:

Youre probably not going to field two dancers at once anyway so having it not affect other dancers isn't too big a problem.

I feel personally attacked. Nobody can tell me that Soiree Ishtar and Soiree Reinhardt aren't supposed to be together 24/7. I really should take Dance off of Soiree Ishtar though

1 hour ago, Topaz Light said:

Actually... I just made Starlight a Blue Tome because it seems like it'd be a Light spell if it existed in a game with the Trinity of Magic, plus I wanted it to have WTA against Gharnef.

Oh, cool! Yeah, I can see that too.

On 7/22/2020 at 10:14 PM, MilodicMellodi said:

Wrathful Staff 4: Damage from unit's staff will be calculated the same as other weapons. If unit initiates combat, grants [Wrathful Serenity] through unit's next action after combat. [Wrathful Serenity: Restores 1.2x HP to target ally when healing target ally with a staff.]
Applies a status effect bonus to the unit that improves on their healing through their next action after they make use of their improved damage output in battle. This makes the unit more effective as a healer, but also entices you to have your healer take part in battling.

Dazzling Staff 4: The enemy cannot counterattack. If unit heals target ally with a staff, grants [Dazzling Pulse] through unit's next action. [Dazzling Pulse: Unit deals +5 damage during combat.]
Applies a status effect bonus to the unit that slightly improves their damage output after they heal an ally, while also keeping the Dazzling effect that prevents your foe's counterattack. When combined with their staff's Wrathful refine, they can take a greater offensive role in combat.

@MilodicMellodi 

Whoops, I must have missed these last time I was reading this thread. My bad.

So your idea was to make Wrathful Staff more of a support skill and Dazzling Staff more of an attack skill? Hmm, sounds cool. I'd personally like them to be switched, but it honestly doesn't matter too much anyway (because staff refines). I'd actually buff Dazzling Pulse a little bit to +7 damage, simply because most staff units (besides Brave Camilla, Brave Veronica, etc.) really suck at dealing damage, and +7 true damage would be enough to make them more reliable in combat but not enough to make it totally broken.

 

[MilodicMellodi]

22 hours ago, SirErrant said:

Whoops, I must have missed these last time I was reading this thread. My bad.

So your idea was to make Wrathful Staff more of a support skill and Dazzling Staff more of an attack skill? Hmm, sounds cool. I'd personally like them to be switched, but it honestly doesn't matter too much anyway (because staff refines). I'd actually buff Dazzling Pulse a little bit to +7 damage, simply because most staff units (besides Brave Camilla, Brave Veronica, etc.) really suck at dealing damage, and +7 true damage would be enough to make them more reliable in combat but not enough to make it totally broken.

I made them this way to incentivize healers with a Wrazzle-Dazzle set into actually practicing both styles of play, rather than just one style that can technically play the other style.

I agree that Dazzling Pulse could be a little more powerful. I made it +5 because I didn't know how powerful it should actually be, but +7 looks much better. And since it's a status effect rather than a Passive, it isn't as "useful" as a Passive that grants the same as an Atk boost and therefore is more balanced than said Passive. I should've taken that into account when making the skill lol

On 7/24/2020 at 4:32 PM, SirErrant said:

I like this skill, but is there really much incentive to use it on a dancer versus Wings of Mercy? I understand that the effect should be pretty low (because balance), but it still doesn't seem like enough. (Love your name for the skill and effect, by the way. Is Lunar Sonata and Moonlight a reference to Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata?)

As a follow-up to Lunar Sonata, how about Solar Serenade?

Solar Serenade: If Sing or Dance is used, grants target [Solstice] through their next action. [Solstice]: If unit's Special triggers, restores HP = 25% of damage dealt. (Stacks with similar effects.)

I liked the amount of healing that Duo Alfonse's Open the Future special gave, so I just went with that. Slightly less than Noontime, but still enough to heal a sizable amount.

1) Probably not. This skill would generally be used when you want just a little more "oomph" to the danced unit's attack when facing high HP tanks, but I think the utility of WoM still outclasses this by a mile.
2) Pretty much, yep. Though I also like the thought of someone singing under the moonlight...in that case, I could see something like this on an Azura alt (if they were to make another one).
3) Love the idea! And it's potentially even more useful than Lunar Sonata because it allows the unit some pretty good sustain (even if it's for one battle). Granting Solstice to a unit with Shield Session 3 or Guard Bearing 3 would make for some pretty good Enemy Phase sustain in AR.

Edited July 26, 2020 by MilodicMellodi

[Clear World]

@MilodicMellodi, I'll try no to be too bias, and please don't take what I write below the wrong way. I'm not trying to be harsh for the sake of being harsh.

On 7/22/2020 at 10:14 PM, MilodicMellodi said:

Triangle Adept 4: Gives Atk +20% during combat unit has weapon-triangle advantage, Atk +15% if neutrality, or Atk -20% if disadvantage.

15% of [45 - 80] Atk (after all bonuses/reduction) = [7- 12] Atk that is both being added to the unit and subtracted from the foe. What is probably at this TA4 worst, it is as strong as tier 4 solo skill, while most cases being better. Do you think 15% is the right value?

I find this suggestion lacking any distinct reason to want to be used over any other tier 4 skill, unless I think it's simply outclass the other tier 4 A skills. The only question/trade-off  I can see a person can ask when deciding to use this skill is, "Am I willing to not be even worst at my bad color match-ups?"

On a side note regarding raventome users that I forgot to mention prior. From my experience and friends list, most, if not all, heroes I see who has prf weapon with raven effect didn't even use TA3 if the person actually invested in their hero (as in, had more than 1 merges), and this was before Tier 4 skills were released.

On 7/22/2020 at 10:14 PM, MilodicMellodi said:

Defiant Atk 4: At start of turn, if unit's max HP < foe's max HP, grants Atk +7 for 1 turn, and if unit's current HP ≤ 50% foe's max HP, grants unit Atk +7 during combat.

I have so many problems/questions with this suggestion. How does this skill choose who this 'foe' that is being compared to at the start of the turn? Why do you have a max HP comparison? Who is this skill for? Equally, if not more important, who is this skill not for?

Mechanically, this is so far removed from the defiant skill tree that there's no point in connecting this with the defiant skill tree.

On 7/22/2020 at 10:14 PM, MilodicMellodi said:

Earth Boost 4: At start of combat, if unit's max HP > foe's HP, grants Def+8 during combat, and if unit's max HP ≥ foe's HP +5, restores 6 HP to unit after combat.

It's weak. The Wind, Earth, & Water versions would all be unless.  6 HP restored after combat is nowhere enough to compensate a single stat boost during combat unless there's a specific reason why they really need the restore.

The two heroes that I'm aware of who actually desire the recovery, Alm & Brave Celica, would struggle greatly to even use this skill, making me wonder who would use this skill in general if given options.

Now to a rant. I know why so many people want to use max HP, instead of current HP. But I personally don't think it's a good design choice. Max HP lacks any sort of gameplay or counter-play to it. Unlike the other stats, there exist buffs & penalties to alters it value for any stat checks. Max HP has no such thing. So for a hero with high HP (who are the ones who would even want this) or a foe with inflated stats, it might as well just be a permanent stat boost during combat for merely existing. 

On 7/22/2020 at 10:14 PM, MilodicMellodi said:

Sorcery Blade 4: At start of combat, if unit is adjacent to a magic ally, calculates damage using the lower of foe's Def or Res - 2, and deals +2 damage during combat x the number of magic allies adjacent to unit (max +6).

It's weak. It's additions requires a harsher requirement on team composition and map positioning to get a lackluster boost.

On 7/22/2020 at 10:14 PM, MilodicMellodi said:

Bonus Doubler 4: Grants bonus to Atk/Spd/Def/Res during combat = highest bonus on unit. If bonuses on unit granted by this skill total ≥ 24, neutralizes unit's penalties during combat.

A upgrade that requires rather more investment on team composition and map positioning to see any additional benefit. Feels like a poor upgrade.

Also, in regards to your additional notes, why would this make L!Azura less needed? Her dance makes this easier to achieve. How would the unit be more independent if they need all their stats being buffed to get its second effect? If anything, this would make the unit even more dependent on their allies to give buffs to the unit.