Jump to content

Create a Skill


Hero_Lucina
 Share

Recommended Posts

On 7/25/2020 at 8:28 PM, MilodicMellodi said:

3) Love the idea! And it's potentially even more useful than Lunar Sonata because it allows the unit some pretty good sustain (even if it's for one battle). Granting Solstice to a unit with Shield Session 3 or Guard Bearing 3 would make for some pretty good Enemy Phase sustain in AR.

Yeah, I was thinking of how units like Summer Ingrid and Armored Boots users would like a healing effect sometimes but not most of the time, and this seemed like a pretty good way to implement that. Plus I really liked your idea... 🙂

Unfortunately, I agree with a lot of what Clear World was saying, especially when it comes to Sorcery Blade 4 and Bonus Doubler 4. Sorcery Blade feels a little gimmicky and Bonus Doubler's just too weak. I think that max HP checks and current HP checks each have their own benefits and flaws (maybe there could be a check that averaged out your max HP and current HP and used that?).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 467
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

On 7/27/2020 at 4:32 AM, Clear World said:

I have so many problems/questions with this suggestion. How does this skill choose who this 'foe' that is being compared to at the start of the turn? Why do you have a max HP comparison? Who is this skill for? Equally, if not more important, who is this skill not for?

I assume "foe" meant any foe. Using max HP makes the skill better for applying buffs on the unit, as all the unit needs is just an enemy with a higher max HP, instead of requiring taking damage to reach 50% HP or less.

Kaden could use it well, as his HP is not that high. Like regular Defiants, no one else besides Kaden really wants it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/27/2020 at 4:32 AM, Clear World said:

15% of [45 - 80] Atk (after all bonuses/reduction) = [7- 12] Atk that is both being added to the unit and subtracted from the foe. What is probably at this TA4 worst, it is as strong as tier 4 solo skill, while most cases being better. Do you think 15% is the right value?

I find this suggestion lacking any distinct reason to want to be used over any other tier 4 skill, unless I think it's simply outclass the other tier 4 A skills. The only question/trade-off  I can see a person can ask when deciding to use this skill is, "Am I willing to not be even worst at my bad color match-ups?"

On a side note regarding raventome users that I forgot to mention prior. From my experience and friends list, most, if not all, heroes I see who has prf weapon with raven effect didn't even use TA3 if the person actually invested in their hero (as in, had more than 1 merges), and this was before Tier 4 skills were released.

Fair. This is meant to be an upgrade that grants the user a slightly smaller WTA over a foe of the same color as the user, but maybe I'm going about it the wrong way.
Perhaps I should be thinking about reworking the skill, just like how Push 3 is reworked into Push 4...an idea for later, at any rate.

On 7/27/2020 at 4:32 AM, Clear World said:

I have so many problems/questions with this suggestion. How does this skill choose who this 'foe' that is being compared to at the start of the turn? Why do you have a max HP comparison? Who is this skill for? Equally, if not more important, who is this skill not for?

Mechanically, this is so far removed from the defiant skill tree that there's no point in connecting this with the defiant skill tree.

I was distracted when making this skill and thought I worded it well enough to post, even though it's really not what I'd been thinking of when I wanted to post it. This time, I'll word it the way I was thinking of.
"At start of turn, if unit's max HP < max HP of nearest foe(s) within 3 spaces of unit, grants Atk +7 for 1 turn. At start of combat, if unit's current HP ≤ 50% foe's max HP, grants unit Atk +7 during combat."
Mainly, I was trying to make it a skill that fits best on units with low max HP, but can also work with units that have somewhat higher max HP as long as they devote more of their kit to it's usage. The field buff rewards the unit for having lower max HP than your opponents on the board nearest to you; being that those on the frontline tend to be either tanks or glass cannons, I though this would have been useful.
Meanwhile, the combat buff is meant to be used against foes whose max HP is much higher than the unit's current HP. This is useful against tanks who have large amounts of HP, but it's even more useful against higher-difficulty AI battles due to those enemies having over-bloated HP pools.
I'm sorry about the version it was at before. I really was distracted, and fully accept your criticisms on that one.

On 7/27/2020 at 4:32 AM, Clear World said:

It's weak. The Wind, Earth, & Water versions would all be unless.  6 HP restored after combat is nowhere enough to compensate a single stat boost during combat unless there's a specific reason why they really need the restore.

The two heroes that I'm aware of who actually desire the recovery, Alm & Brave Celica, would struggle greatly to even use this skill, making me wonder who would use this skill in general if given options.

Now to a rant. I know why so many people want to use max HP, instead of current HP. But I personally don't think it's a good design choice. Max HP lacks any sort of gameplay or counter-play to it. Unlike the other stats, there exist buffs & penalties to alters it value for any stat checks. Max HP has no such thing. So for a hero with high HP (who are the ones who would even want this) or a foe with inflated stats, it might as well just be a permanent stat boost during combat for merely existing. 

The 6 HP restoration is meant to be a partial HP restoration used in conjunction with other skills like Mystic BoostRenewal, or the HP-restoring specials or weapons. It rewards the unit for having a high HP pool by giving them extra HP restoration.
Also, note that both parts of the skill compare the unit's max HP with the foe HP. That means the foe's current HP, which means that even lower-HP units can make use of it as long as their max is higher than the foe's current HP.
Something I didn't realize before I typed this is that this would actually be really useful alongside AoE specials. While the Passive wouldn't support the AoE skill directly, the AoE damages the foe before this Passive's checking starts. This means that even glass cannons could potentially make use of this if they can inflict enough damage to the opponent (though yes, I know there would be far better options for them at that point).
It really shines more with high-HP units, though. But like I said, the HP restoration on this Passive is meant to be an add-on to other restorative effects, so that's why it's 6 and not higher.

On 7/27/2020 at 4:32 AM, Clear World said:

It's weak. It's additions requires a harsher requirement on team composition and map positioning to get a lackluster boost.

I agree with you on this one. This one is more of a rough draft more than anything, but I'm just not really sure on how to correctly balance skills that both add stats and debuff foes as a combat buff/debuff. I ended up letting it get away from me there lol
Maybe I should have made it this:
"At start of combat, if unit is adjacent to magic ally, calculates damage using the lower of foe's Def or Res -3, and unit deals +5 damage during combat."
How's that one look?

On 7/27/2020 at 4:32 AM, Clear World said:

A upgrade that requires rather more investment on team composition and map positioning to see any additional benefit. Feels like a poor upgrade.

Also, in regards to your additional notes, why would this make L!Azura less needed? Her dance makes this easier to achieve. How would the unit be more independent if they need all their stats being buffed to get its second effect? If anything, this would make the unit even more dependent on their allies to give buffs to the unit.

Not really. I did mention in the effect that this Passive counts its own bonuses towards the total. When it says 24, it means 6 x 4. Which really means that if the unit has a +6 field bonus to any of their stats, this skill grants the unit All+6. That All+6 counts towards the stat total (and since 6 x 4 is 24, it triggers the penalty self-nullification).
Legendary!Azura would be less needed because you would no longer need to have her Dance on the unit to give them Prayer Wheel's effect. This skill would do that instead.
As for making the unit more independent, the penalty self-nullification speaks for itself.
As for relying on allies for the buffs...you have heard of the Rouse skills, right? And for Armor and Flying, there's always the Wave skills (which grant their field bonus whether the unit is or isn't adjacent to an ally).

Edited by MilodicMellodi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spiked Shield 3
A Passive
Melee only
Effect: If unit's Special triggers based on a melee foe's attack, grants Def/Res +7 during combat and neutralizes effects that prevent unit's counterattacks during combat.
I might have made this too powerful, but mainly this grants the unit Def/Res +7 and gives them Null C-Disrupt, as long as their Special is one like Pavise (but not Aegis). This and the Ward version also work with Miracle, so that's also there.

Spiked Ward 3
A Passive
Melee only
Effect: If unit's Special triggers based on a ranged foe's attack, grants Def/Res +7 during combat and unit can counterattack regardless of foe's range.
Trades the half-effect of Null Follow-Up for Distant Counter, and still only grants you these as long as your Special is one like Aegis (but not Pavise). Like mentioned, this works with Miracle as well.

Infernal/Glacial Pavise
Special, 3 cooldown
Melee only
Effect: Reduces damage inflicted by attacks from melee foes by 60%. If melee foe deals physical (magic) damage, reduces damage from foe's next attack equal to the damage reduced by this Special's activation (max 7).
More powerful than normal Pavise, and splits off depending on what field bonus is gained from it. Infernal Pavise is more useful due to the amount of targets, but Glacial Pavise is effectively your anti-Dragon shield which makes it very useful in certain matchups.

Infernal/Glacial Aegis
Special, 3 cooldown
Melee only
Effect: Reduces damage inflicted by attacks from ranged foes by 60%. If ranged foe deals physical (magic) damage, reduces damage from foe's next attack equal to the damage reduced by this Special's activation (max 7).
Same as the respective upgrades of Pavise, but obviously on Ranged foes. Glacial Aegis would be more useful this time because of its targets, though Fliers would definitely appreciate Infernal Aegis to defend against Bows more effectively.

 

All-in-all, these are my ideas for making defensive Specials useful again. Definitely first draft in terms of balance.
The Spiked passives make the units fight better against their match-ups. The half-effect of Null Follow-Up for Shield prevents the unit from getting cucked by Sweeps or other anti-counterattack skills, which in turn helps make use of the defenses gained. Distant Counter for Ward obviously makes melee units able to counterattack against ranged foes.
As for the Pavises and Aegises, their damage reduction is a little more effective, and they grant the unit another bout of damage reduction during the foe's next attack if their type of damage matches up with the Special. So Infernal Aegis reduces damage from a ranged attack by 75%, but it reduces the foe's damage again if that foe uses bows. This effectively makes the Pavieses/Aegises capable of walling their specified damage type really well against their specified foe. Especially if the unit's weapon reduces their cooldown count.

Edited by MilodicMellodi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/24/2020 at 3:39 AM, MilodicMellodi said:

I like the idea, but I think the problem would be Isolation itself. Putting that onto an inheritable staff seems a bit unbalanced, at least in that form.
I think a weaker form of Isolation would work, like one that prevents the unit from being Danced on, or maybe Rally'd on? Essentially, something that would prove incredibly useful as Isolation is, but isn't strong enough to make Bridal!Fjorm obsolete.

Yeah, I knew it was unbalanced, but it was so much cooler than what the solution to that would be, which is to make it like every other staff ever.

Solitude+: 10 might. After unit attacks, inflicts [Isolation] on target and foes within two spaces.

On 7/25/2020 at 8:28 PM, MilodicMellodi said:

I agree that Dazzling Pulse could be a little more powerful. I made it +5 because I didn't know how powerful it should actually be, but +7 looks much better. And since it's a status effect rather than a Passive, it isn't as "useful" as a Passive that grants the same as an Atk boost and therefore is more balanced than said Passive. I should've taken that into account when making the skill lol

You’re good. Yeah, making it a status effect is balanced enough (and interesting) rather than just giving the healer +5 attack.

On 7/25/2020 at 8:28 PM, MilodicMellodi said:

2) Pretty much, yep. Though I also like the thought of someone singing under the moonlight...in that case, I could see something like this on an Azura alt (if they were to make another one).

Have you seen the cipher card with Dorothea singing in the moonlight next to a fountain? That’s the first thing I thought of when I saw Lunar Serenade.
 

Anyway, time for a new skill. I thought I’d try to implement Hunter’s Volley from FE3H into Heroes.

Hunter’s Volley - Bow infantry-locked B skill. Inflicts Atk -5 and Spd -3. If unit initiates combat and foe’s HP = 100%, unit attacks twice before foe can counterattack and unit cannot make a follow-up attack. 

I basically tried to implement Hunter’s Volley while making it balanced enough for FEH. It basically allows a bow infantry unit to have a Brave Bow activate whenever they initiate combat and prevents them from quadding, like how you couldn’t use Hunter’s Volley to quad in Three Houses. To simulate a brave weapon, I had it inflict the same penalties as you would have using a Brave Bow. I couldn’t think of a way to put weapon durability into Heroes, so instead I added a condition where foe’s HP has to equal 100%. It’s pretty easy to activate, but it reinforces the idea that Hunter’s Volley users are most effective either OHKOing or acting as chip damage when needed. The advantages of having a Brave Bow effect in the B slot means that units can run a prf bow or Firesweep Bow for their weapons in addition to a Brave Bow: however, they would be subject to the same penalties as a Brave Bow unit, namely having 0 enemy phase. Slow bow infantries like Legendary Chrom would be best for this skill. If it seems way too broken, you could also add a Def/Res -3 penalty to cripple the unit’s enemy phase even further or add more stringent activation requirements.

Also:

Swift Strikes - Lance cavalry and flier-locked B skill. Inflicts Atk -5 and Spd -3. If unit initiates combat and foe’s HP = 100%, unit attacks twice before foe can counterattack and unit cannot make a follow-up attack. 

Same deal as Hunter’s Volley, but I made it cav and flier locked because the only three units in 3H who can use them are pushed towards being Paladins or Wyvern Lords.

Edit: formatting

Edited by SirErrant
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ideas for reworks for both Fujin Yumi and Brynhildr, and Prf Weapons/Refines for Default!Lissa, Default!Elise, Default!Sakura, Azama, Default!Genny, and Forrest.
NOTE: For the Healer weapons/refines, I'm going under the assumption that Brave!Veronica's refine will add a unique effect rather than simple Dazzling/Wrathful Staff.

Spoiler

Base Refine Effect (unchanged): If unit's HP ≥ 50%, unit is not slowed by terrain. (Does not apply to impassable terrain.)
+Eff Refine Effect (new): If unit's HP ≥ 50%, unit is not slowed by terrain. (Does not apply to impassable terrain.) If unit's Res < foe's Res, reduces damage from attacks during combat and from area-of-effect Specials (excluding Røkkr area-of-effect Specials) by percentage = difference between stats x4 (max 40%). Neutralizes effects that grant "Special cooldown count +X" to foe during combat.
Replaces his current +Eff Refine into one that reduces the damage he takes from high-Res foes and neutralizes the foe's "Special Haste" skills during combat. Takumi was the first unit with Close Combat, this makes him an effective user of it. By altering the condition of the Parry (seems like that's what this type of damage reduction effect should be called) effect to be useful against higher Res instead of lower Spd, he's capable at getting the full reduction against foes with at least 28 or higher Res (at +0+0 Level 40). At +10+10 Level 40 this changes to 34 or higher, but with so many units having hyper-inflated stats these days that's not much of an issue.
With the "Special Haste" neutralizing effect (meaning that it neutralizes Blade, Breath, etc.), he gains even more defensive utility. Rather than it being a Guard effect, it simply prevents the foe from hastening their Special; he can use Guard in his B slot if he wishes, completely halting the foe's Special charge in its tracks.
Finally, he still keeps the base refine effect that allows his movement to be immune to terrain (except for impassable terrain like water or mountains). Due to the damage reduction, this effect is much more likely to stay active, making him a lot more capable of positioning himself at his leisure for attacking or defending.

Spoiler

Base Refine Effect (new): If foe uses magic, reduces damage from foe's first attack during combat and from area-of-effect Specials (excluding Røkkr area-of-effect Specials) by 50%. After combat, if unit attacked, prevents foe from moving more than 1 space through its next action.
+Eff Refine Effect (new): If foe uses magic, reduces damage from foe's first attack during combat and from area-of-effect Specials (excluding Røkkr area-of-effect Specials) by 30%. After combat, if unit attacked, prevents foe from moving more than 1 space through its next action. Before combat, if unit's Def ≥ foe's Atk - 15, foe cannot make a follow-up attack during combat.
The changed base effect pretty much reworks the Parry effect so that instead of requiring a stat-based condition, it instead only works against tome users. It's also both weaker and stronger, going up to 50% without lowering but only working on the foe's first attack (keeping with Brynhildr's current Base Refine Effect but stronger, but has the anti-AoE effect from the Parry effect as well — because when you think about it, aren't AoEs magic?) Its second BRE brings back a stronger version of his weapon's non-Refine effect as basic Gravity, letting him its effect on his foe during either phase if he attacks. I figured that since Spurn's secondary effect is a weaker Wrath, this weapon can have Gravity rather than Gravity+.
His +Eff Refine changes the condition of his effect to make it easier, at the cost of pretty much changing the type of unit it's most effective against. Instead of being at its most useful against Magic Nukes with low Def (and Res, when you consider his low-ish Atk), this change makes him effective against low-Atk enemies (and, well, low Res...again, because of his low-ish Atk). This does also make him more useful against users of Brave weapons, due to their low Might. In terms of his stats, he has 26 (29 with a superboon) Def with no merges/DF, and 31 (or 35) Def with full merges/DF; that means his opponents would need to have less than 40/44 Atk when he's unmerged, or 46/50 Atk when he's fully merged. Put Fort. Def/Res or an equal field bonus on him, and that bumps it up to 46/50 when unmerged and 52/56 when fully merged. That's not really difficult to come across unless your opponent uses a team full of Nukes.

 

Spoiler

Weapon Name: Delicate Flower
Might + Effect: 14 Might. After combat, if unit attacked, prevents target and foes adjacent to target from moving more than 1 space through their next actions. Before combat, if non-staff foe's Def/Res total < the lower of unit's Def/Res, calculates damage from foe's weapon like a staff during combat.
+Eff Refine Effect: After combat, if unit attacked, prevents target and foes adjacent to target from moving more than 1 space through their next actions. Before combat, if non-staff foe's Def/Res total < the lower of unit's Def/Res, calculates damage from foe's weapon like a staff during combat. When healing an ally, unit's Atk = target's Atk.
I made it so that she keeps Gravity+, but also gains an effect that maximizes the potential of her defenses: If, before combat, her foe's Def and Res combined is less than the lower of Lissa's Def OR Res, her foe's damage output becomes equal to that of a Healer without Wrathful Staff. This effect is incredibly useful against Nukes with low Def/Res totals (except for Bladetome users that dabble in Def and/or Res buffs). With this effect, their damage output is severely weakened. Of course, not many units in the game get that low Def/Res total (unless penalties on the foe and bonuses on the unit, and/or Life and Death, are involved) which makes this a fairly balanced skill on her part.
The +Eff Refine makes her Atk equal to her target's Atk when she's healing them. This makes Lissa a very powerful healer, making her healing more effective the higher her ally's Atk reaches. While the Atk reduction from some Healer-only Assists still does its thing, the increased Atk she gets still greatly improves her usefulness. The only downside, however, is that it lowers her Atk when her ally's Atk is lower than hers; her base Atk with this weapon and full merges/DF is 46, which means that any allies of hers with lower Atk than that — either by actually having low Atk through their base Atk or with a low-Atk weapon, or by suffering heavy debuffs from skills like Chill Atk — will lower the healing they receive from her. While they aren't many (unless taking debuffs into account), they're still there, and anyone using a Lissa with this weapon would need to take that into account.

Spoiler

Weapon Name: Lily's Poise
Might + Effect: 14 Might. After combat, if unit attacked, prevents target and foes adjacent to target from moving more than 1 space through their next actions. Grants Atk/Spd +6 to adjacent allies during combat.
+Eff Refine Effect: After combat, if unit attacked, prevents target and foes adjacent to target from moving more than 1 space through their next actions. Grants Atk/Spd +5 to adjacent allies during combat. Adjacent allies take 5 less damage before and during combat.
Her base weapon is Gravity+ combined with what is effectively Goad All, and her +Eff Refine Effect directly lowers the damage adjacent allies take from both combat and AoEs. If you're using her, you might as well take advantage of your Bond skills!

Spoiler

Weapon Name: Silent Princess
Might + Effect: 14 Might. After combat, if unit attacked, inflicts Atk-7 on target and foes within 2 spaces of target through their next actions. Grants allies within 2 spaces Def/Res +5 during combat.
+Eff Refine Effect: After combat, if unit attacked, inflicts Atk-7 on target and foes within 2 spaces of target through their next actions. Grants allies within 2 spaces Def/Res +6 during combat. At the start of even-numbered turns, restores 7 HP to allies within 2 spaces.
Her base weapon is Fear+ combined with what's essentially Close/Distant Guard 4 (pretty much Lily's Poise's Spur effect, but defensive and transformed from Spur into Drive). Her +Eff Refine Effect is pretty much a Drive Renewal 3 on even turns instead of odd. The base weapon's combat bonus is a reference to her 'Quiet Strength' Personal Skill, while her +Eff Refine is a reference to the Amaterasu skill.

Spoiler

Weapon Name: Retribution Rod
Might + Effect: 12 Might. After combat, if unit attacked, deals 10 damage to target and foes within 2 spaces of target. If unit's Atk < foe's Atk, grants Def/Res to unit during combat equal to the difference between stats (max 8.)
+Eff Refine Effect: After combat, if unit attacked, deals 10 damage to target and foes within 2 spaces of target. If unit's Atk < foe's Atk, grants Def/Res to unit during combat equal to the difference between stats (max 8.) After healing an ally, deals 7 damage to foes within 2 spaces of target ally.
His base weapon is Pain+ and another effect that grants him up to Def/Res +8 based on how much lower his Atk is compared to his opponent's. If he has neutral Atk and is +10+10 with this weapon, he'll have 39 Atk — much less than many units in the game currently have, unless they're ones like Default!Felicia that are also notorious for having low Atk.
His +Eff Refine Effect is like...a sort of Savage Blow, but after healing instead of attacking. He pretty much becomes the definition of Pain...reference to Divine Retribution notwithstanding. I decided that rather than give him Counter (which he pretty much has in Pain+ anyhow), I felt that maximizing his role as a healer was the way to go...so I let him deal damage to his enemies WHILE HEALING ALLIES. Beautiful idea, if I do say so myself~

Spoiler

Weapon Name: Nosferatu
Might + Effect: 14 Might. After combat, if unit attacked, prevents target and foes adjacent to target from moving more than 1 spaces through their next actions. If unit's HP ≥ 50% and is in combat against a dragon foe, unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack and foe cannot make a follow-up attack.
+Eff Refine Effect: After combat, if unit attacked, prevents target and foes adjacent to target from moving more than 1 spaces through their next actions. If unit is in combat against a dragon foe, unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack and foe cannot make a follow-up attack. Restores HP = 30% of damage dealt.
Genny's weapon becomes Gravity+ and what's pretty much Dragonbreaker...or Breathbreaker? Regardless...yeah. Meanwhile, her +Eff Refine effect is a weaker Absorb, giving her some self-sustain to keep her Breaker effect active. Since she naturally comes with Wrathful Staff, this shouldn't even be a problem for her, especially if she's going against Dragons (where she'll be dealing more and taking less damage).
Notably, the Breaker effect is a reference to the bug in Gaiden (and feature in Shadows of Valentia) where Genny could use Nosferatu to defeat the final boss.

Spoiler

Weapon Name: Silk Staff
Might + Effect: 13 Might. After combat, if unit attacked, bonuses on target and foes within 2 spaces of target become penalties through their next actions. If foe initiates combat, grants Atk/Res +8 during combat and inflicts Special cooldown charge -1 on foe per attack. (Only highest value appliesd. Does not stack.)
+Eff Refine Effect: After combat, if unit attacked, bonuses on target and foes within 2 spaces of target become penalties through their next actions. If foe initiates combat, grants Atk +8 during combat and inflicts Special cooldown charge -1 on foe per attack. (Only highest value appliesd. Does not stack.) When healing allies with a staff, unit also recovers the same amount.
Base weapon is Panic+ combined with Fierce Stance 4 (the latter of which isn't available to Healers), and the +Eff Refine is Live to Serve 3. Fierce Stance 4 is a reference to his Personal Skill in Fates, Fierce Counter (which is buffed here, since Fierce Counter only worked against male opponents). Live to Serve 3, meanwhile, is because his base class in Fates was Troubadour, despite his father being in the Dark Mage tree.
The name of his weapon is based on two things: his feminine characteristics/personality and his Personal Skill in Fates. I thought it would be funny for the staff to be like a muleta, a stick with a red cloth hanging from it that bullfighters use in their sport. In this case, it would be a staff with a red (or pink) silk cloth covering it.

 

Edited by MilodicMellodi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Specials

Adaptive Force - 2 CD - Calculate damage using the lower of foe's Def or Res. Disables non-Special effects that "reduce damage by X%".

Great Shield - 2 CD - If foe's range = 1, reduce foe's damage by 50%. Disables effects that calculate damage using the lower of foe's Def or Res.

Holy Blessing - 2 CD - If foe's range = 2, reduce foe's damage by 50%. Disables effects that calculate damage using the lower of foe's Def or Res.

Windfire Balm Up+ - 1 CD - After combat or after healing an ally with a staff, grants Atk/Spd+7 for 1 turn and neutralize Atk/Spd penalties to unit and all allies for 1 turn. (Staff exclusive)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

Whale's Delight: A Skill: Grants atk/spd/def/res + the number of merges this unit has (Max 10),

Hell yeah! That sounds awesome!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, XRay said:

Hell yeah! That sounds awesome!

It would be almost useless for free to play players and critically necessary for whales XD Would probably break the game then and there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Phantom Atk 4: B Skill: If skill compares unit's atk to foe's or ally's atk, treats unit's atk as if it is higher than foe or ally's atk (if comparison deals damage based on the difference, deal the maximum damage).

Phantom Spd 4: B Skill: If skill compares unit's spd to foe's or ally's spd, treats unit's spd as if it is higher than foe or ally's spd (if comparison deals damage based on the difference, deal the maximum damage).

Phantom Def 4: B Skill: If skill compares unit's def to foe's or ally's def treats unit's def as if it is higher than foe or ally's def (if comparison deals damage based on the difference, deal the maximum damage).

Phantom Res 4: B Skill: If skill compares unit's res to foe's or ally's res, treats unit's res as if it is higher than foe or ally's res (if comparison deals damage based on the difference, deal the maximum damage).

For no real good reason it bothers me that skills exist that are only seals, so I'd like to see them introduced as regular skills. Not sure where to put them. They really do work best as seals. Make them C slots and you can't use them with ploys, make them B and you can't use with wind/water sweep, and make them As and you can't use Flashing.Heavy Blade (and they face serious competition against the likes of Darting Blow and even Def+3, though hopefully level 4 versions that just eliminate state comparisons completely would be best. I decided to go with B skills since giving everyone, even the slowest units who don't sacrifice anything by being unable to double, access Wind/Water sweep might be a bit too much. Oh speaking of, heaby blade is the only skill that compares atk, right? Might as well add another.

Disarm: A skill: If unit's atk is greater than or equal to foe's atk, after combat inflict status on foe preventing counter attacks throughout its next actions.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

Phantom Atk 4: B Skill: If skill compares unit's atk to foe's or ally's atk, treats unit's atk as if it is higher than foe or ally's atk (if comparison deals damage based on the difference, deal the maximum damage).

Phantom Spd 4: B Skill: If skill compares unit's spd to foe's or ally's spd, treats unit's spd as if it is higher than foe or ally's spd (if comparison deals damage based on the difference, deal the maximum damage).

Phantom Def 4: B Skill: If skill compares unit's def to foe's or ally's def treats unit's def as if it is higher than foe or ally's def (if comparison deals damage based on the difference, deal the maximum damage).

Phantom Res 4: B Skill: If skill compares unit's res to foe's or ally's res, treats unit's res as if it is higher than foe or ally's res (if comparison deals damage based on the difference, deal the maximum damage).

For no real good reason it bothers me that skills exist that are only seals, so I'd like to see them introduced as regular skills. Not sure where to put them. They really do work best as seals. Make them C slots and you can't use them with ploys, make them B and you can't use with wind/water sweep, and make them As and you can't use Flashing.Heavy Blade (and they face serious competition against the likes of Darting Blow and even Def+3, though hopefully level 4 versions that just eliminate state comparisons completely would be best. I decided to go with B skills since giving everyone, even the slowest units who don't sacrifice anything by being unable to double, access Wind/Water sweep might be a bit too much. Oh speaking of, heaby blade is the only skill that compares atk, right? Might as well add another.

Disarm: A skill: If unit's atk is greater than or equal to foe's atk, after combat inflict status on foe preventing counter attacks throughout its next actions.

 

 

Noone is gonna use Phantom skills if they are on the B Slot. If anything they either need to be a Seal or the C-Slot.

I mean whats the point of Phantom Res 4 on a B-Slot when you cant then even learn Sabotage skills.  And no 4 is definitly to strong and would break the game

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Random hot take regarding B-skills. IS has no current plans on releasing any tier 4 B-skill within the next two years. What they will do is instead retrain lesser B-Skills, as in, release new skills that contains the effect of those lesser B-Skills plus a brand new effect to place it up to par with the current top tier B-skills, like how they did for Repel or Close Call. But I'm definitely not saying the 'new added' effect will be damage reduction. It will vary and do different stuff.

Now to random a sacred seal being turned into an inheritable skill.

Deflect Attack - B Skill (Melee Only)

Disable's unit's skill that changes attack priority or prevent counterattacks. When foe performs consecutive attack against unit, reduce damage from first attack by 40% and damage from second attack onward by [40%/60%/80%].

 

 

Edited by Clear World
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Joint Phantom Spd
C Passive
Staff only
Effect: When any skill compares the Spd of an adjacent ally to another unit's, that ally's Spd stat is counted as +7 over actual value, and unit is granted Spd +7 after combat.
It's like combining Defiant Spd 3 and Phantom Spd 2 into a Spur/Hone skill. The ally Spd is counted as 7 higher than normal, and the unit gains a Spd +7 field bonus after combat. Of course, the condition is that the ally's Spd has to be compared to another unit's skill (like Windsweep), which means that neither effects happen if the foe doesn't have such a skill.
That being said, it 
would allow itself to combo with the Phantom Spd seal on the adjacent ally, giving that unit a whopping Spd +17 boost if the condition is fulfilled.
EDIT: I made it exclusive to Healers because we really have a terrible lack of Healer-only skills in FEH. Yes, there are a good deal of Staves, but as for Healer-only Passives? I'm pretty sure Live to Serve, Wrathful Staff, and Dazzling Staff are the only ones we have. In addition, the skill isn't even overwhelmingly powerful like most of the shit non-Healers get, and it's 
very conditional to activate (unless the skill that's comparing its Spd is one of the Parry skills — currently being Close Call, Repel, and Spurn).

Edited by MilodicMellodi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, MilodicMellodi said:

Joint Phantom Spd
C Passive
Staff only
Effect: When any skill compares the Spd of an adjacent ally to another unit's, that ally's Spd stat is counted as +7 over actual value, and unit is granted Spd +7 after combat.
It's like combining Defiant Spd 3 and Phantom Spd 2 into a Spur/Hone skill. The ally Spd is counted as 7 higher than normal, and the unit gains a Spd +7 field bonus after combat. Of course, the condition is that the ally's Spd has to be compared to another unit's skill (like Windsweep), which means that neither effects happen if the foe doesn't have such a skill.
That being said, it 
would allow itself to combo with the Phantom Spd seal on the adjacent ally, giving that unit a whopping Spd +17 boost if the condition is fulfilled.
EDIT: I made it exclusive to Healers because we really have a terrible lack of Healer-only skills in FEH. Yes, there are a good deal of Staves, but as for Healer-only Passives? I'm pretty sure Live to Serve, Wrathful Staff, and Dazzling Staff are the only ones we have. In addition, the skill isn't even overwhelmingly powerful like most of the shit non-Healers get, and it's 
very conditional to activate (unless the skill that's comparing its Spd is one of the Parry skills — currently being Close Call, Repel, and Spurn).

So, let's lay this out. Due to this requiring the ally being adjacent to the unit and all current skills that has Spd checks requires combat, this is basically an enemy phase skill. I bring this up because, what is the point of granting the unit (not the ally) a buff that vanishes at the end of the enemy's turn that they attacked your ally?

12 hours ago, Jotari said:

Phantom Atk 4: B Skill: If skill compares unit's atk to foe's or ally's atk, treats unit's atk as if it is higher than foe or ally's atk (if comparison deals damage based on the difference, deal the maximum damage).

Phantom Spd 4: B Skill: If skill compares unit's spd to foe's or ally's spd, treats unit's spd as if it is higher than foe or ally's spd (if comparison deals damage based on the difference, deal the maximum damage).

Phantom Def 4: B Skill: If skill compares unit's def to foe's or ally's def treats unit's def as if it is higher than foe or ally's def (if comparison deals damage based on the difference, deal the maximum damage).

Phantom Res 4: B Skill: If skill compares unit's res to foe's or ally's res, treats unit's res as if it is higher than foe or ally's res (if comparison deals damage based on the difference, deal the maximum damage).

For no real good reason it bothers me that skills exist that are only seals, so I'd like to see them introduced as regular skills. Not sure where to put them. They really do work best as seals. Make them C slots and you can't use them with ploys, make them B and you can't use with wind/water sweep, and make them As and you can't use Flashing.Heavy Blade (and they face serious competition against the likes of Darting Blow and even Def+3, though hopefully level 4 versions that just eliminate state comparisons completely would be best. I decided to go with B skills since giving everyone, even the slowest units who don't sacrifice anything by being unable to double, access Wind/Water sweep might be a bit too much. Oh speaking of, heaby blade is the only skill that compares atk, right? Might as well add another.

Disarm: A skill: If unit's atk is greater than or equal to foe's atk, after combat inflict status on foe preventing counter attacks throughout its next actions.

So what happens if both the foe and unit have the same phantom skill? On another note, I personally think this is a poor design choice because this forcefully limits what a stat comparison can do, since it automatically grants the benefit and ignores any potential gameplay/counterplay stat comparison can provide for a match-up. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Hilda said:

Noone is gonna use Phantom skills if they are on the B Slot. If anything they either need to be a Seal or the C-Slot.

I mean whats the point of Phantom Res 4 on a B-Slot when you cant then even learn Sabotage skills.  And no 4 is definitly to strong and would break the game

Hmm. This is true. I was only thinking of the slot compared to what skills it would interact with. B skills slot is way too competitive for them to see any use outside of niche builds. C would be best, and I guess loosing them access to ploys wouldn't be the biggest loss.

37 minutes ago, Clear World said:

 

So what happens if both the foe and unit have the same phantom skill? On another note, I personally think this is a poor design choice because this forcefully limits what a stat comparison can do, since it automatically grants the benefit and ignores any potential gameplay/counterplay stat comparison can provide for a match-up. 

That's a good question. Does Phantom Spd/Res currently protect you from enemy skills? It's not something you exactly encounter on a lot of enemies. Guess I could find a map with someone who's a plot user to check. At any rate I'd say either only the unit's skill in question that's checking the stats takes it into account, or they just cancel each other out (as two phantom seals currently do).

Edited by Jotari
Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Clear World said:

So, let's lay this out. Due to this requiring the ally being adjacent to the unit and all current skills that has Spd checks requires combat, this is basically an enemy phase skill. I bring this up because, what is the point of granting the unit (not the ally) a buff that vanishes at the end of the enemy's turn that they attacked your ally? 

Fair point. What if, instead of the field buff, it granted the unit a status effect that gave them Spd +7, which only disappears at the end of the unit's turn?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

That's a good question. Does Phantom Spd/Res currently protect you from enemy skills? It's not something you exactly encounter on a lot of enemies. Guess I could find a map with someone who's a plot user to check. At any rate I'd say either only the unit's skill in question that's checking the stats takes it into account, or they just cancel each other out (as two phantom seals currently do).

Phantom skills do help protect you from your enemy skills. It occurs whenever any skills (unit's or foe's) requires a direct stat comparison with the unit, which does include enemy ploys and sabotages. And if both the unit and the enemy both have the same Phantom stat equipped, the bonus the phantom skill provides does occur for both the unit & foe, which leads back to my question since logically speaking, as it currently reads, your suggestion would go into state of infinite limbo of either the unit's or foe's stat being 'higher than the other'.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MilodicMellodi said:

Fair point. What if, instead of the field buff, it granted the unit a status effect that gave them Spd +7, which only disappears at the end of the unit's turn?

I think you should just rethink the very core concept you're trying to achieve instead of creating a field buff that isn't a field buff but basically provides a field buff to get around the limitations of a field buff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Clear World said:

Phantom skills do help protect you from your enemy skills. It occurs whenever any skills (unit's or foe's) requires a direct stat comparison with the unit, which does include enemy ploys and sabotages. And if both the unit and the enemy both have the same Phantom stat equipped, the bonus the phantom skill provides does occur for both the unit & foe, which leads back to my question since logically speaking, as it currently reads, your suggestion would go into state of infinite limbo of either the unit's or foe's stat being 'higher than the other'.

Well like I said, they'd cancel out and act as if neither has a Phantom skill.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Clear World said:

I think you should just rethink the very core concept you're trying to achieve instead of creating a field buff that isn't a field buff but basically provides a field buff to get around the limitations of a field buff.

I'm trying to have it be a field buff because I don't want it to be capable of stacking with the combat bonuses that Healers are capable of inheriting. But you're right that I'm trying too hard to do it in a way that is lowering its potential. How about this then:

"When any skill compares the Spd of an adjacent ally to another unit's, that ally's Spd is counted as +7 over actual value. At the start of the turn, if unit is adjacent to an ally with a skill that compares their Spd to another unit's, grants Spd +7 to unit and that ally for 1 turn."

This way, it gives the Spd+7 field bonus to both the unit and their adjacent allies that have Spd-comparing skills during the Player Phase (and the Enemy Phase if no combat was initiated by the unit(s)). With smart usage of the skill's effects, you can achieve a total effective Spd boost of +14 on the ally, increasing to +24 if the ally also has Phantom Spd 3.
Of course, while the Spd boost is great, it also relies on having a healer adjacent to the unit at almost all times. This makes combat reliant on having the adjacent Healer, making ranged combat and ESPECIALLY enemy dancer formations difficult to deal with. I feel that would justify the large potential Spd boost, what with Legendary!Azura being so prevalent in Arena even today. There's also the fact that since the ally would have PS3 in their seal slot, it removes their ability to use any other seals like Quick Riposte (especially since their B slot will already very likely have the Spd-comparing skill in it). This makes the ally and the healer a lot more reliant on each other, which potentially opens up holes that enemies can exploit. Which is why, again, that the potential +24 would be justified.

How's the skill look to you now, though?

Edited by MilodicMellodi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Jotari said:

C would be best, and I guess loosing them access to ploys wouldn't be the biggest loss.

Oi, I completely missed this part, because that now raise a set of different questions I have. I assume it was deliberate that you only included damage in the text for maximum benefit, but now that you say C slot would be a better fit, would the % damage reduction from skills like Spurn and combat stat reductions from skills like Pegasus Flight also receive the max benefit of your suggested tier 4 Phantom skill.

If you say yes, then are willing to accept that a unit with less than 20 SPD can get the max 40% damage reduction, with little opportunity cost.

If you say no, then I guess this tier 4 upgrade actual benefit may be worst than the tier 3 version for, you know, the heroes would actually run phantom skills.

Are you going to arbitrary choose which you skills you think are too good or not good enough to receive the max benefit from your phantom skill (which also include all potential future skills that may be released)?

But just saying. These are just problematic issues that arise when you make it so 'final' on conditions that may have effects with a wide array of outputs.

12 hours ago, MilodicMellodi said:

This way, it gives the Spd+7 field bonus to both the unit and their adjacent allies that have Spd-comparing skills during the Player Phase (and the Enemy Phase if no combat was initiated by the unit(s)). With smart usage of the skill's effects, you can achieve a total effective Spd boost of +14 on the ally, increasing to +24 if the ally also has Phantom Spd 3.
Of course, while the Spd boost is great, it also relies on having a healer adjacent to the unit at almost all times. This makes combat reliant on having the adjacent Healer, making ranged combat and ESPECIALLY enemy dancer formations difficult to deal with. I feel that would justify the large potential Spd boost, what with Legendary!Azura being so prevalent in Arena even today. There's also the fact that since the ally would have PS3 in their seal slot, it removes their ability to use any other seals like Quick Riposte (especially since their B slot will already very likely have the Spd-comparing skill in it). This makes the ally and the healer a lot more reliant on each other, which potentially opens up holes that enemies can exploit. Which is why, again, that the potential +24 would be justified.

First... what?

Second, uhh.... why would players even be using Phantom Speed 3 in their Seal slot? It's not that great of a skill and there really is no benefit of stacking 17 imaginary Spd (from your skill + PH3) when just getting actual spd is better.

Third, how does this make unit reliant on the adjacent healer? I feel like you think phantom spd is like this actual good skill... when it's not. It really isn't. Actual Spd is a lot better.

Fourth, I don't even understand why you bring up L!Azura or dancers in general? What do they have to do with any of this?

Fifth, do what you want, but I still have no idea what actual useful goal you're trying to achieve with this design.

Edited by Clear World
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Clear World said:

Second, uhh.... why would players even be using Phantom Speed 3 in their Seal slot? It's not that great of a skill and there really is no benefit of stacking 17 imaginary Spd (from your skill + PH3) when just getting actual spd is better.

It is mostly for Spd stacking on a Spurn BH!Ike with double or triple Peonys. BH!Ike does care about being doubled since enemies get their Atk reduced to single digit damage on consecutive hits. When he is near BH!Lucina, BH!Ike also does not care about doubling faster enemies since his retaliation with Aether will generally kill most things in one hit, and he will automatically double against slower enemies so he will still get his Aether off. The only time he does not get his Aether off is against enemies near his own Spd, which is not a really big deal either since the next enemy will trigger his Aether.

BH!Ike can run Spd/Res Solo, but the extra 16% damage reduction from Phantom Spd against fast nukes improves both his physical and magical bulk. Spd/Res Solo does give him a permanent boost in Res, but it provides less protection against fast nukes, and some of the most dangerous nukes are fast.

Edited by XRay
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/11/2020 at 2:22 PM, XRay said:

BH!Ike can run Spd/Res Solo, but the extra 16% damage reduction from Phantom Spd against fast nukes improves both his physical and magical bulk. Spd/Res Solo does give him a permanent boost in Res, but it provides less protection against fast nukes, and some of the most dangerous nukes are fast.

I would agree, except for one key thing. B.Ike doesn't get the full benefit of the % damage reduction.

% Damage reduction stack multiplicatively, so at the best case situation with him having 10 Spd higher than foe, the skill's actual benefit is only an additional 24% damage reduction, while for the second strike reduction provides an additional 8% damage reduction. But repeat, this is at its best case situation. 

But let's be real, you're literally arguing for the case in which B.Ike gets doubled, then its safe for me to assume the B.Ike player intends to have at least 5 less Spd then his foe. I bring this up because, now you're arguing to sacrifice a Seal for Phantom Spd, which is not high enough to get him to receive the max Damage reduction benefit. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Swordbreaker 4
Effect: If unit's HP ≥ 50% in combat against a sword user, unit makes an additional follow-up attack and foe cannot, and if unit attacks or is attacked first this turn, calculates damage from foe's weapon like a staff during combat.
Pretty much normal Swordbreaker, but also severely weakens the sword user's damage output if the first combat that turn (Player OR Enemy Phase) has the unit in it. Mainly an Enemy Phase skill, but works plenty well as a Player Phase skill with proper positioning and/or high movement (like from Tibarn and the like, cavalry units, or infantry mages).
This would also apply to the other Breaker skills, just...against 
those weapon types.

Anchored Boots 3
C Passive
Armored only
Effect: Neutralizes skills that would move unit and/or foe into another space after combat. If foe has a skill that would move unit and/or foe into another space after combat, unit takes 7 less damage before and during combat until the end of the turn. [Tier 1 is 100% HP before combat, Tier 2 is ≥ 50% HP before combat, Tier 3 requires no HP condition.]
Prevents the unit and its foe from being able to make use of effects that move themselves or their opponent, and makes the unit tankier for the rest of the turn if the foe does indeed have a skill like that on them. It's balanced in the way that it takes up the C slot, making Armored Stride or Armored March impossible to equip at the same time.

Slayer of Words
C Passive
Exclusive (Legendary!Claude)
Effect: Unit is unaffected by effects of skills from foes in cardinal directions from unit. At start of turn, inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res -4 on foes in cardinal directions.
Neutralizes the effectiveness of Ploy effects and the like on Legendary!Claude, while also inflicting Spectrum Ploy at the start of his turn. Claude in 3H has always been the kind of person to make plans, but also turn his enemies' plans against them. Ploys are indeed plans designed to turn situations to the person's advantage.
This doesn't mean that it works 
only on Ploys, though. Foes that attack him from a cardinal direction will find the stat debuff from their Lull skill doesn't activate. Debuffs from daggers don't lower his stats after combat if his foe attacks from a cardinal direction. Guard loses its effect in those directions, making Legendary!Claude capable of charging his Special with Flashing Blade if he wishes. Stuff like that. This means that foes find it a lot more difficult to position themselves; melee units will never be able to get past it unless he himself attacks from a diagonal direction, and ranged units find it a lot harder to position themeslves.
Note that this doesn't stop skills that don't affect the foe. Close Call, for example, only compares the foe's Spd but doesn't actually affect the foe (it reduces the damage the unit takes, not the foe's damage output). Push, Brazen, Solo, etc. skills don't lose their power because they only increase the unit's stats during combat. It also doesn't stop Impenetrable Dark's effect, because Slayer of Words only stops effects that would affect the 
unit during combat, and Impenetrable Dark specifically disables skills from everyone else except for Bramimond's foe.

Edited by MilodicMellodi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...