Worst Fire Emblem Lord?

[Anacybele]

5 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Never said Ike doesn't deserve to be praised. He's a Stu because of things that occur at the end of the game. I'm mostly fine with Ike's role in part 3 although he's far from the most interesting character. 

Then you don't know what a Sue/Stu is. A Sue/Stu is basically a flawless perfect character whom is good at tons of things and someone everyone loves and respects for no good reasons, typically has characteristics considered super special, and doesn't face any consequences or negativity. Ike isn't shown to be talented at anything but swordplay, his respect is justified by his deeds, and he definitely faces consequences and negativity from people. Hell, even in RD he has people calling him out once in awhile (like Nailah telling him to shut up about Rafiel's behavior).

Edited December 12, 2017 by Anacybele

[Acacia Sgt]

11 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Could still be Ashera blessing too, though. So nothing really contradicts this.

Not "could", actually. It can only be Ashera since Yune herself states she never did such a thing. But that still says nothing. Both armors still come out of nowhere as nothing is ever explained about them other than they're blessed. And in the case of Ashnard's, uneeded.

The thing is, though, since only the weapons blessed by Yune work against Ashera's blessings, then you have the case of an unblessed Alondite not working. But, Alondite is blessed, just by Ashera. So if an Ashera-blessed thing can't harm other Ashera-blessed things, then if the armors were blessed by Ashera... then Ragnell wouldn't work. But it does, so then they couldn't be blessed by Ashera, then? Without RD, you could assume it was Yune who did that, but well, RD shows she didn't. So it's either a retcon or a screw-up.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Acacia Sgt

[NoirCore]

4 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Micaiah gets her own battle and her own ending too though...? Did you forget the chapter where it's just her and BK? BK is there to help, yeah, but it's still all about her.

Yune still did worse to Micaiah than Ike did imo.

In that tower? I think not. Ike got his battle with BK, Micaiah got...no personal battle, really. Even Yune didn't get anything. And BK was NOT Yune's fault, either. And by ending, I meant the text at the end of the game talking about how Ike changed the world. Micaiah, the apparent other protagonist, doesn't get that either; just Ike. Another thing Yune cannot be blamed for.

[Shadow Mir]

4 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

I didn't know that weapon forges didn't exist. Tauroneo is my favourite PoR character and Jill is my second. I want to be able to use those two to kill Ashnard. It would be interesting to see the two former Daein warriors go at it against Ashnard. 

They're not the ones stuck with the weakest weapon type and a low strength cap, you know... And whilst I didn't acknowledge forges, they wouldn't change anything for Elincia, and that's assuming you can get her from D all the way to A in 3 chapters.

[Icelerate]

Just now, Anacybele said:

Then you don't know what a Sue/Stu is. A Sue/Stu is basically a flawless perfect character whom is good at tons of things and someone everyone loves and respects for no good reasons and doesn't face any consequences or negativity. Ike isn't shown to be talented at anything but swordplay, his respect is justified by his deeds, and he definitely faces consequences and negativity from people. Hell, even in RD he has people calling him out once in awhile (like Nailah telling him to shut up about Rafiel's behavior).

Never said his respect isn't justified. Mary Sues and Gary Stus can have flaws as well. 

 

[TheWill]

5 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Roy's one of the best lords in the franchise in terms of leadership ability.  See this thread for explanation because I don't feel like typing it out right now.

No matter how good Roy's feats are, he's ultimately just so boring and bland that it's hard to care for him whatsoever. Him, Marth, Seliph and Leif show so little to distinguish themselves in a series that's so character centric. Honestly, even with Chrom, who at least has the commoner 'bro' theme going for him, he's just so unremarkable that he feels redundant and adds little to nothing. Maybe it's a part of a personal issue with me getting older and standards increasing or due to general writing standards having increased compared to more 'standard' stories (eg. 'basic' storylines like Marth's tale) being phased out, I'm not sure.

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Icelerate said:

Never said his respect isn't justified. Mary Sues and Gary Stus can have flaws as well.

No, they wouldn't be true Sues and Stus then. Otherwise, what the hell IS a Sue/Stu?

[Acacia Sgt]

2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

No, they wouldn't be true Sues and Stus then. Otherwise, what the hell IS a Sue/Stu?

A Stu is a character who is loved no matter how big their flaws are, or how much they could screw up. So they get priased for what they do right... and anything they do wrong either is ignored, or is then revealed to lead to good things anyway. Or those that dare to say something bad about them are painted as being wrong, no matter how legitimate they are in their critique.

Being a Stu is not about the character itslef. It's how other characters react to them.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Acacia Sgt

[Harvey]

13 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

I’ll give you that he’s a bad unit, no denying that ever, but how exactly does he have no resolve?  And he’s far from emotionally weak, he’s got a few self esteem issues but he doesn’t let that hamper him from doing what he needs to do.

Please elaborate.  What did Roy do to give you this impression?  When did he do it?  Why did it give you that impression?

Funny because when I said that he's a bad unit, you just defended him saying that he's only bad at mid game instead of being bad throughout. Are you finally accepting that people don't like to use him?

Anyways, I think he meant it interms of gameplay. While story wise he does something, in gameplay wise, he's practically not doing it. He can't beat the general that held Lillina captive because he's too weak to even kill him essentially requiring someone like DIeck to kill him instead. He can't rush all the way to the throne in chapter 14 because of his poor move requiring a flier to aid him. And while he can fare well against Zephiel if done right, its still not worth wasting the binding blade at him because he needs it to beat the final boss. He is practically hopeless in gameplay wise because his character is done in a manner that makes him a pain in the butt to deal with.

Other lords have always practically been able to do what they claim to do story wise such as Lyn being able to defeat and kill Lundgren story and gameplay wise for example.

You could argue and say that Roy is the actual player and the player is suppose to guide him because the lord is the player but that doesn't mean a thing if the player cannot accept Roy for what he is and he is a horrible unit in the end.

[edgelordweeaboo]

10 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

1. Sigurd got most of his army killed in a trap, not sure how that qualifies as a Gary Stu.

2. Are you just coming here to dump on other people's opinions?

i added sigurd to the gary stu category because like half the people on here call him a gary stu and i don't want to get like 500 responses saying "but sigurd is a gary stu!" i didn't come to dump on other people's opinions either but i kinda did end up doing that

[vanguard333]

8 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Then you don't know what a Sue/Stu is. A Sue/Stu is basically a flawless perfect character whom is good at tons of things and someone everyone loves and respects for no good reasons, typically has characteristics considered super special, and doesn't face any consequences or negativity. Ike isn't shown to be talented at anything but swordplay, his respect is justified by his deeds, and he definitely faces consequences and negativity from people. Hell, even in RD he has people calling him out once in awhile (like Nailah telling him to shut up about Rafiel's behavior).

To add to this: A Mary/Gary Sue/Stu is a character that distorts the plot around them to the point where it can seem like the entire fictional universe is built around them. Ike is definitely not this; neither is Sigurd this (to my knowledge; I mean, he was easily manipulated, and died a tragic hero in a gruesome, fiery death, and then the rest of the game has Seliph as the protagonist).

[Magical Glace]

11 hours ago, Harvey said:

Funny because when I said that he's a bad unit, you just defended him saying that he's only bad at mid game instead of being bad throughout. Are you finally accepting that people don't like to use him?

The midgame is enough to sink him overall, I still think he's at least okay early and late.  He's definitely far from the best lord gameplaywise, but he's not nearly as bad as some make him out to be.

11 hours ago, Harvey said:

Anyways, I think he meant it interms of gameplay. While story wise he does something, in gameplay wise, he's practically not doing it. He can't beat the general that held Lillina captive because he's too weak to even kill him essentially requiring someone like DIeck to kill him instead. He can't rush all the way to the throne in chapter 14 because of his poor move requiring a flier to aid him. And while he can fare well against Zephiel if done right, its still not worth wasting the binding blade at him because he needs it to beat the final boss. He is practically hopeless in gameplay wise because his character is done in a manner that makes him a pain in the butt to deal with.

Other lords have always practically been able to do what they claim to do story wise such as Lyn being able to defeat and kill Lundgren story and gameplay wise for example.

You could argue and say that Roy is the actual player and the player is suppose to guide him because the lord is the player but that doesn't mean a thing if the player cannot accept Roy for what he is and he is a horrible unit in the end.

That isn't what he said.  He said he has no resolve, which has nothing to do with gameplay.  Storywise, Roy's resolve is fine.  

12 hours ago, SlipperySlippy said:

No matter how good Roy's feats are, he's ultimately just so boring and bland that it's hard to care for him whatsoever. Him, Marth, Seliph and Leif show so little to distinguish themselves in a series that's so character centric. Honestly, even with Chrom, who at least has the commoner 'bro' theme going for him, he's just so unremarkable that he feels redundant and adds little to nothing. Maybe it's a part of a personal issue with me getting older and standards increasing or due to general writing standards having increased compared to more 'standard' stories (eg. 'basic' storylines like Marth's tale) being phased out, I'm not sure.

I mean if you find him bland, good for you, but that's not what was originally stated and doesn't answer the question I asked.  Nor does it have anything to do with Roy's ability to lead an army.

 

According to a quick google search, this is what resolve means:

Spoiler

How does Roy not qualify for this?  That's what I asked, and I've yet to receive a proper answer.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Glaceon Mage

[Slumber]

9 hours ago, SlipperySlippy said:

No matter how good Roy's feats are, he's ultimately just so boring and bland that it's hard to care for him whatsoever. Him, Marth, Seliph and Leif show so little to distinguish themselves in a series that's so character centric. Honestly, even with Chrom, who at least has the commoner 'bro' theme going for him, he's just so unremarkable that he feels redundant and adds little to nothing. Maybe it's a part of a personal issue with me getting older and standards increasing or due to general writing standards having increased compared to more 'standard' stories (eg. 'basic' storylines like Marth's tale) being phased out, I'm not sure.

Throwing Marth under the bus because 50% of the Lords in the franchise are modeled after him seems odd.

I also find it funny that you say this when Roy and Leif are basically complete opposites, to the point where I'm starting to wonder if you've played their games or payed attention to their stories. Roy's deal is that he's incredibly well learned, optimistic and he's a great strategist that doesn't want to hurt people, even his enemies. He almost always makes the right decisions and knows the best ways to keep his vastly underpowered army strong against the titan army that is Bern. The few times where he doesn't have the answers, the answers basically come to him.

Leif, meanwhile, is angry, emotional, and short-sighted when it comes to fulfilling his goals, which are mostly violent in nature. It leads to him making many critical errors in his game, which result in him being captured and his liberation force disbanding, several territories he liberates being taken again, and the death of one of his strategists. Thracia's an entire game about Leif overcoming his weaknesses and becoming a leader, and virtually nothing else. The game doesn't have some continent-ending conflict at the center, it's just Leif trying to liberated his corner of Thracia and avenge his grandfather. And, depending on if you want to use secondary material, he's also INCREDIBLY insecure that he's Seliph's cousin, since everyone sees Seliph as this messiah figure and Leif is basically just chopped liver.

These are both pretty distinct differences from Marth, who yeah, has a pretty standard character and story, but that's because he was the first.

I'll give you Seliph, since the only thing he really has going for him is being the son of Sigurd, but the other 3 don't deserve to be tossed under the bus as having nothing going on. There are better choices than those 3, anyway. Eliwood, I can't say, really has anything unique to besides his friendship with Hector. He's just a stock good guy who wants to do good things. Eirika and Ephraim are both pretty flat, IMO, with Eirika being Celica 2.0 and Ephraim being "I'M GREAT!" the character.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Slumber

[Christactics]

On 12/11/2017 at 7:21 AM, edgelordweeaboo said:

Roy is a shit lord. He's an awful unit and he has no resolve and is too weak to be a good main character. Micaiah suffers from similar problems. Lucina is extremely bland. Ike is Gary Stu III and his fans are annoying as all hell. All of them are pretty bad but fuck Corrin. Corrin is the most trash ass lord in the franchise. He's bland, weak, has no resolve, and the plot centers around him more than the other lords listed so he fucks up the rest of the plot way more. 

Sigurd was kind of a Gary Stu but he was a way better character than the other Gary Stus, Ephraim and Ike. 

Lucina is in Awakening and she's the more bland female version of Chrom. You can judge Ephraim and Eirika btw, they don't change at all throughout the game. Eliwood and Lyn aren't that bad of units at least in my experience

I can't say anything about Roy, Ike, and Sigurd as I never played any of the games where they come out, but I can say something about Corrin and Lucina.

I agree that Corrin is not the best lords out there and yes, everybody kisses their butt all the time, but the thing is, they were intended to be weak because they didn't know anything about reality outside the castle (if you are saying weak unit-wise, I never thought they were a bad unit and had no trouble using them.) I don't understand how Corrin can be described as bland and having no resolve. As far as I know about the other lords of the franchise, Corrin is one of the most distinguished lord in the series, far from being bland. They are unlike the other lords. They are naive, emotionally weak, and somewhat childish. Also, their determination is what really drives the plot forward, so you can't really say that they have no resolve. Corrin will definitely make a kind but absolutely terrible leader of a country though. They might not be good lord-wise, but when it comes to personality, they are pretty interesting.

You also mentioned that Lucina is extremely bland. But thinking about what kind of life she had, it really is hard for a person to be cheery. It is understandable that her surrounding and what she had to go though formed her personality as what you might perceive as 'bland' and rather a bit stoic. However, she has her own quirks too, showing that she isn't completely a boring, serious person.

Honestly seems like quite a few people don't take the time to actually analyze Corrin and decide to immediately ride the Bandwagon of Corrin Hate just because they can be shown as annoying. Think about it. They are actually a (again) very interesting character.

[omegaxis1]

29 minutes ago, Christactics said:

I agree that Corrin is not the best lords out there and yes, everybody kisses their butt all the time, but the thing is, they were intended to be weak because they didn't know anything about reality outside the castle (if you are saying weak unit-wise, I never thought they were a bad unit and had no trouble using them.) I don't understand how Corrin can be described as bland and having no resolve. As far as I know about the other lords of the franchise, Corrin is one of the most distinguished lord in the series, far from being bland. They are unlike the other lords. They are naive, emotionally weak, and somewhat childish. Also, their determination is what really drives the plot forward, so you can't really say that they have no resolve. Corrin will definitely make a kind but absolutely terrible leader of a country though. They might not be good lord-wise, but when it comes to personality, they are pretty interesting.

The only issue I have with this is the fact the story has him be this ultimate leader where all decisions he makes is always agreed to be the right one. No one that he's allied with ever questions his judgment really and assure any time that he has doubts that what he did was the right thing. It doesn't feel like he developed as well as he could have. However, I don't hold that much hate for Corrin, because Corrin is just one part of the issue. The entire problem is Fates as a whole. 

Corrin had potential, but so did Fates as well. I am pretty sure when a lot of people heard the premise of the story, they were excited about how the story would go. The concept was VERY interesting. But the execution was terribly played, because they tried so hard to ride on Awakening's poularity and focused way too much on the fanservice, and not just the eyecandies, but all the other things that were popular from Awakening, such as the 2nd Gen.

32 minutes ago, Christactics said:

You also mentioned that Lucina is extremely bland. But thinking about what kind of life she had, it really is hard for a person to be cheery. It is understandable that her surrounding and what she had to go though formed her personality as what you might perceive as 'bland' and rather a bit stoic. However, she has her own quirks too, showing that she isn't completely a boring, serious person.

THANK YOU. 

Seriously, I'm amazed by how everyone just glosses over this. 

There has not been a SINGLE Fire Emblem Lord that has even APPROACHED the level of despair that Lucina has had to go through. Marth, Corrin, Roy, Ike, Eirika, Ephraim, Lyn, not a single one of them ever had to go through what Lucina did. Lucina and all the Awakening children had to live their lives in a world that had literally gone to hell. It was a world where people struggled just to survive to the next day. 

If anything it's more of a miracle that none of the kids had any form of insanity. Those quirks that each and every one of them had I feel are just things that they each created for themselves JUST to keep some semblance of sanity in them, from Owain's theatrical speech patterns, Inigo's flirtatious behavior, etc. These are all facades they crafted that has been engraved into their personalities, all to defend themselves from the painful reality that they are fighting a losing war.

[Harvey]

3 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

The midgame is enough to sink him overall, I still think he's at least okay early and late.  He's definitely far from the best lord gameplaywise, but he's not nearly as bad as some make him out to be.

That isn't what he said.  He said he has no resolve, which has nothing to do with gameplay.  Storywise, Roy's resolve is fine.  

I mean if you find him bland, good for you, but that's not what was originally stated and doesn't answer the question I asked.  Nor does it have anything to do with Roy's ability to lead an army.

 

According to a quick google search, this is what resolve means:

How does Roy not qualify for this?  That's what I asked, and I've yet to receive a proper answer.

I get that you want to correct people but must you always paste a link to a google meaning here? You are making it sound like a lot of the people here are not so good vocabulary wise.

Just put a link instead... It saves pages...

Anyways, saying that he's far from the best and then saying that he's not that bad sounds like favouritism. Roy may be the best leader IS has ever thought of in terms of brain power(which I disagree because I think Marth does it better atleast in FE12 and 11) but that doesn't mean shit if he can't even do shit right so he sucks nonetheless.

3 hours ago, Slumber said:

He almost always makes the right decisions and knows the best ways to keep his vastly underpowered army strong against the titan army that is Bern.

Where did he make a wrong decision here? Just curious.

 

[Magical Glace]

18 minutes ago, Harvey said:

I get that you want to correct people but must you always paste a link to a google meaning here? You are making it sound like a lot of the people here are not so good vocabulary wise.

Just put a link instead... It saves pages...

I've done that what, twice?  Once to tell you what tedious means and once just now?  I'll put in a spoiler tag if it bothers you that much, but don't say I always do that...

20 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Anyways, saying that he's far from the best and then saying that he's not that bad sounds like favouritism. Roy may be the best leader IS has ever thought of in terms of brain power(which I disagree because I think Marth does it better atleast in FE12 and 11) but that doesn't mean shit if he can't even do shit right so he sucks nonetheless.

1. You haven't played FE11 or 12 last time I checked.  And I recall you previously calling Marth dumb.

2. This statement doesn't have any actual argument.  You're basically saying "he sucks because he sucks."  

[Anacybele]

13 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

A Stu is a character who is loved no matter how big their flaws are, or how much they could screw up. So they get priased for what they do right... and anything they do wrong either is ignored, or is then revealed to lead to good things anyway. Or those that dare to say something bad about them are painted as being wrong, no matter how legitimate they are in their critique.

Being a Stu is not about the character itslef. It's how other characters react to them.

That's fair too, but then Ike's flaws are called out on sometimes as well. In PoR, Mist calls him reckless once or twice, Greil would literally punish him for rushing out to save Mist and Rolf and disobeying orders if it wasn't for the fact that they were loaded with jobs, Soren and Titania point out Ike's almost-fatal mistake in blowing up at Sanaki, and then there's the Nailah/Rafiel scenario I mentioned in RD. Also in RD, Ike was almost tricked by Aimee in a hilarious way and Soren pointed it out. So Ike's flaws ARE called out upon. Maybe they could've been called out a bit better at times, but still. His mistakes weren't praised or ignored.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Anacybele

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

I get that you want to correct people but must you always paste a link to a google meaning here? You are making it sound like a lot of the people here are not so good vocabulary wise.

Just put a link instead... It saves pages...

Anyways, saying that he's far from the best and then saying that he's not that bad sounds like favouritism. Roy may be the best leader IS has ever thought of in terms of brain power(which I disagree because I think Marth does it better atleast in FE12 and 11) but that doesn't mean shit if he can't even do shit right so he sucks nonetheless.

Where did he make a wrong decision here? Just curious.

 

 

Saias is far and away the best leader IS have ever thought in terms of brain power, with Camus and Hardin as notable mentions from their sheer acomplishment

Roy's biggest acomplishment is just breaking through Ostia which is impressive(Bern actually did not need to do this due to Ostian rebellion iirc + lack of Eliwood is what allowed them to beat Hector without using Dragons), but its not on the level of Camus and Hardin who essentially swept through the continent and had all sort of absurdity around them.

 

hell Camus was so smart that he was the reason we had a mechanic made to potray tactical capability. Just about the only thing he did wrong was being unbelievably loyal, which is the point of Marth. He's capable enough to won the 1st war, and had the right personality while not being as idealistic and naive as Hardin

Edited December 12, 2017 by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

[Acacia Sgt]

57 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

That's fair too, but then Ike's flaws are called out on sometimes as well. In PoR, Mist calls him reckless once or twice, Greil would literally punish him for rushing out to save Mist and Rolf and disobeying orders if it wasn't for the fact that they were loaded with jobs, Soren and Titania point out Ike's almost-fatal mistake in blowing up at Sanaki, and then there's the Nailah/Rafiel scenario I mentioned in RD. Also in RD, Ike was almost tricked by Aimee in a hilarious way and Soren pointed it out. So Ike's flaws ARE called out upon. Maybe they could've been called out a bit better at times, but still. His mistakes weren't praised or ignored.

Does anything comes over for being called reckless? As you said, Greil would punish him, but their workload means Ike gets semi scott free from the ordeal (and if the "punishment" is doing work already expected of you due to your job, then it's that really a punishment?). Exactly, Soren and Titania point out the error, but the fact Sanaki still glossed over it means he got away with it anyway with just a warning. Nailah only did at most a minor scolding, and then they just proceeded to talk about Heron behavioral differences. Another point, he gets to avoid blundering because Soren was there to bail him out.

Once again, it's not about his flaws being pointed out or not. It's that he avoids most of the consequences.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Acacia Sgt

[Christactics]

2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

The only issue I have with this is the fact the story has him be this ultimate leader where all decisions he makes is always agreed to be the right one. No one that he's allied with ever questions his judgment really and assure any time that he has doubts that what he did was the right thing. It doesn't feel like he developed as well as he could have. However, I don't hold that much hate for Corrin, because Corrin is just one part of the issue. The entire problem is Fates as a whole. 

Corrin had potential, but so did Fates as well. I am pretty sure when a lot of people heard the premise of the story, they were excited about how the story would go. The concept was VERY interesting. But the execution was terribly played, because they tried so hard to ride on Awakening's poularity and focused way too much on the fanservice, and not just the eyecandies, but all the other things that were popular from Awakening, such as the 2nd Gen.

If anything it's more of a miracle that none of the kids had any form of insanity. Those quirks that each and every one of them had I feel are just things that they each created for themselves JUST to keep some semblance of sanity in them, from Owain's theatrical speech patterns, Inigo's flirtatious behavior, etc. These are all facades they crafted that has been engraved into their personalities, all to defend themselves from the painful reality that they are fighting a losing war.

If the writing was better, It's perhaps not an exaggeration to even say that it could have been one of the best FE titles. I actually didn't mind the second gens being in Fates, but clones were too big of a stretch. Also notable that whichever one you pick, you get a pretty similar experience (excluding revelation). Fates and Corrin were just victims of failed writing. It was also sad to know that the amount of fanservice increased so much, as one of the reason why I enjoyed Awakening (the first game in the series I played) was because of its minimal fanservice, unlike many JRPG titles.

Agreed. I always thought of their behavior as a sort of coping mechanism to deal with the living hell they had to endure.

[Skyla]

On 11/12/2017 at 10:43 PM, Icelerate said:

The writers decided to give the final bosses to Ike which doesn't make much sense because he lacks a connection with Ashnard, unlike Elincia. Unlike Micaiah, he has no connection with Ashera, so him getting the final boss kill is quite anticlimactic.

Ike, the general of the army involved in the war against Ashnard, who Elincia herself hired. Greil was one of the four riders of Daein who served Ashnard. I don't know her exact relation but Ashnard knew Elena very well as she was trusted to watch over Reyson's sister, who was the crucial part of his plan. The medallion was in the possession of his sister which was also vital for his plan.

Ashnard knew Ike's father, mother, Ike was the general of the army he was at war against and was leading the army with the very princess of the nation he had conquered. Who also had the medallion in his possession.

I don't see how Ike lacks connection to him. If that's your logic then Eliwood has no connection to Nergal either, only Ninian and Nils did....

As for Ashera, Micaiah had no real connection to her either. Only Lehran did.

On 11/12/2017 at 10:43 PM, Icelerate said:

What's worse is that the narrative credits Ike as the one to slay Ashnard and Ashera when in reality it was a team effort. He's basically a kill stealer and gets all the glory. What's worse is that the ending gives Ike all the credit for bringing peace to the world. I guess Elincia, Micaiah and Sanaki's efforts were moot. Even worse is that he just leaves Tellius so the ones keeping the peace are everyone else yet he's the sole person the writers decided to credit.

He was known as the hero of the mad kings war, yes but it does make sense since he was the General of the army. This can also be said for all the other protagonists, Marth was the only one credited as the 'Hero king who slayed Medeus'

Alm was only credited to defeat Rudolf and Duma. Celica like Micaiha was pushed towards the side in favour of him and made some pretty stupid desicions.

On 11/12/2017 at 10:43 PM, Icelerate said:

Compare that to other FE lords who actually think about what they're doing is right or not.

Hector, left his brother on his coronation just to help Eliwood out. 

What reason did Marth have to join Nyna's quest when he had his own kingdom to save?

Alm also had no reason to join the deliverance especially when his own grandfather refused yet he still did.

Ike, joined the laguz alliance simply because a- Ranulf was paying for his service and b- because he knew Begnion was at fault and Ranulf was his friend who aided them during the mad kings war.

On 11/12/2017 at 10:43 PM, Icelerate said:

Soren also dislikes the laguz and knows of Begnion's might yet doesn't criticize Ike.

Soren due to their history would never criticize Ike but he resisted a lot and wouldn't help them.

"Soren, ranulf helped us out during the mad kings war and he's our client. So it's our turn to return the favour and our job to do it right"

Ike induced Soren and that's the only reason he helped.

On 11/12/2017 at 10:43 PM, Icelerate said:

Furthermore, characters who have no reason to join Ike's army join him. Brom, Nephenee and Heather join Ike with no hesitation. Brom looks like a hypocrite because, in part 2, he criticized the rebels for wanting to fan the flames of war and agrees with Elincia's ideals of peace which is why she chose not to intervene on the side of the laguz or Begnion. Heather hates men so why is she on Ike's side? Why can't pretty girl Micaiah recruit her when that would make more sense for Heather's character? 

This is due to Radiant dawn poor writhing sometimes, I kind of wish they had base conversations as to explain their sudden appearance like Haar did but they don't.

Despite all this, I agree that Rd completely butchers every thing I loved about Ike in POR. Radiant Dawn is my favourite Fe game but logic in terms of writing isn't the best in this game. Yet the storyline is still very compelling.

[Anacybele]

33 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Does anything comes over for being called reckless? As you said, Greil would punish him, but their workload means Ike gets semi scott free from the ordeal (and if the "punishment" is doing work already expected of you due to your job, then it's that really a punishment?). Exactly, Soren and Titania point out the error, but the fact Sanaki still glossed over it means he got away with it anyway with just a warning. Nailah only did at most a minor scolding, and then they just proceeded to talk about Heron behavioral differences. Another point, he gets to avoid blundering because Soren was there to bail him out.

Once again, it's not about his flaws being pointed out or not. It's that he avoids most of the consequences.

Because of reasonable circumstances. The Greil Mercs' workload, and then Sanaki had no choice either, she also had issues of her own to deal with. She needed to use Ike and his group to help free some laguz slaves and stop Oliver. She wouldn't have had much help stopping them otherwise since a lot of people around her were not reliable. She also needed to test Ike's loyalty and strength. Ike dodging some consequences were at least reasonably justified.

And his flaws were still not completely ignored or praised.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Anacybele

[Acacia Sgt]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Because of reasonable circumstances. The Greil Mercs' workload, and then Sanaki had no choice either, she also had issues of her own to deal with. She needed to use Ike and his group to help free some laguz slaves and stop Oliver. She wouldn't have had much help stopping them otherwise since a lot of people around her were not reliable. She also needed to test Ike's loyalty and strength.

And his flaws were still not completely ignored or praised.

That's the thing. The Mercs conveniently had that amount of workload for Ike to escape most of the punishment. Same for Sanaki and her predicament coinciding with Ike and Elincia's arrival so Ike's actions get mostly swept away. While such contrives and coincidences aren't out of the norm for a work of fiction, Ike's take on the matter is what makes the difference.

And once more, it's about the consequences, not the aknowledgement.

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

That's the thing. The Mercs conveniently had that amount of workload for Ike to escape most of the punishment. Same for Sanaki and her predicament coinciding with Ike and Elincia's arrival so Ike's actions get mostly swept away. While such contrives and coincidences aren't out of the norm for a work of fiction, Ike's take on the matter is what makes the difference.

And once more, it's about the consequences, not the aknowledgement.

Well, sometimes conveniences like that happen even in real life. People get lucky sometimes and sometimes they get unlucky. So what's wrong with putting that in stories?

Also, we'd have basically no more story progression if Ike and his group did get grounded in the fort or thrown in prison.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Anacybele