Localization?

[Lucario666]

So, out of all localization companies, who would you rather have localize this new game? NoA, 8-4, or some other company that hasn't touched the series yet?

My ranking for the companies I'd prefer are as follows from best to worst:

1. Some other company (as long as they don't f*** with the fans and are competent)

2. 8-4

3. Some other company (one that'll probably f*** the fans a little like the P5 controversy a while back) 

4. NoA/Treehouse

 

EDIT 10/31/2017: 

I should also mention this, I don't know much about the P5 controversy from a while back other than there was controversy to begin with. I usually don't keep up with the spin offs and focus mainly on mainline SMT games. 

Edited November 1, 2017 by Lucario666

[Slumber]

What did the Persona 5 localizers do to fuck with fans? It was Altus proper who did all of the dumb stuff. 

[Von Ithipathachai]

20 minutes ago, Slumber said:

What did the Persona 5 localizers do to fuck with fans? It was Altus proper who did all of the dumb stuff. 

I imagine he's thinking about whoever was responsible for translating the game, since it's known to have a few ...odd moments.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Von Ithipathachai
Added a link to some examples

[Slumber]

1 minute ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

I imagine he's thinking about whoever was responsible for translating the game, since it's known to have a few ...odd moments.

Just to point out:

The group of people who were harshly criticizing Persona 5's localization and made that website also used Fates as an example of how to properly localize a game. 

So yeah. 

Yes, Persona 5 uses repeated phrases and makes weird explanations to explain VERY Japanese things, but it's a 100 hour, super dialog heavy game just with the main story alone. It's a pretty damn good localization when you contextualize those weak moments. 

[The DanMan]

57 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Just to point out:

The group of people who were harshly criticizing Persona 5's localization and made that website also used Fates as an example of how to properly localize a game. 

So yeah. 

Yes, Persona 5 uses repeated phrases and makes weird explanations to explain VERY Japanese things, but it's a 100 hour, super dialog heavy game just with the main story alone. It's a pretty damn good localization when you contextualize those weak moments. 

There's still stuff like very odd wording and flat-out machine translated bits.
Sega bought Atlus primarily to replace their localization team; thus, it's reasonable to assume that Atlus's localization team suffered initially, leading to parts of P5's localization being rushed/corner-cut.

[Slumber]

19 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

There's still stuff like very odd wording and flat-out machine translated bits.
Sega bought Atlus primarily to replace their localization team; thus, it's reasonable to assume that Atlus's localization team suffered initially, leading to parts of P5's localization being rushed/corner-cut.

True, but again, it doesn't feel like P5 suffers heavily from it. It still feels like a solid translation with some oddities here and there. If it wasn't pointed out to me, I wouldn't notice that some lines were translated by a bot and not a human. Most of the things I did notice were something along the lines of "This may have benefitted from one more proof-read, but the game is so big that a few lines feeling off doesn't detract from the experience at all". 

There's a pretty big gap between Persona 5 and a "bad translation". Like, say, a game removing entire lines of dialog meant for character development and backstory for a joke *coughcoughTreehousecoughcough*. 

Edited October 30, 2017 by Slumber

[De Geso]

The Persona 5 localization team did the opposite of "fuck with the fans," like Treehouse or 8-4 has been known to do in the past. They very clearly adhered as closely as possible to the original Japanese script, which is what I prefer. With "localization" you get garbage like Kana's recruitment and Nergal's HHM death quote losing all of its meaning.

[Hardin]

Treehouse or 8-4 for me. They do great work, and they have a strong familiarity with the series. 

[Book Bro]

As long as it's more SoV and less Awakening/Fates in tone I'll be happy.

[Captain Vulgar]

I'd be happy with 8-4 for localizing the game. I was satisfied with their work in Echoes.

[Captain Vulgar]

Sorry for the double post, college wifi is the death of me.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Captain Vulgar

[The DanMan]

5 hours ago, Slumber said:

True, but again, it doesn't feel like P5 suffers heavily from it. It still feels like a solid translation with some oddities here and there. If it wasn't pointed out to me, I wouldn't notice that some lines were translated by a bot and not a human. Most of the things I did notice were something along the lines of "This may have benefitted from one more proof-read, but the game is so big that a few lines feeling off doesn't detract from the experience at all". 

There's a pretty big gap between Persona 5 and a "bad translation". Like, say, a game removing entire lines of dialog meant for character development and backstory for a joke *coughcoughTreehousecoughcough*. 

That never happened.

You had Effie's battle lines (which would actually be right at home in Awakening, as most characters had straightforward and generic ones that became far more gimmicky in the localization) and Hisame's My Room lines, but besides that nobody lost character development or underwent any personality changes. 8-4's the one who re-wrote multiple characters in Awakening and makes everybody as snarky as Joss Whedon characters.

4 hours ago, YouSquiddinMe said:

The Persona 5 localization team did the opposite of "fuck with the fans," like Treehouse or 8-4 has been known to do in the past. They very clearly adhered as closely as possible to the original Japanese script, which is what I prefer. With "localization" you get garbage like Kana's recruitment and Nergal's HHM death quote losing all of its meaning.

So we're complaining about a single mistranslation in a 14 year old game now. 
I follow multiple people who know Japanese (one of whom studied it in hope of becoming a localizer), and adhering "as closely as possible" to the original Japanese is an easy way to lose nuance and meaning. Dialogue ends up far more stilted and unnatural; the controversy that arose around Persona 5, a series that's already infamous for weeb pandering (leaving honorofics entirely intact) demonstrates that it's pretty unpopular in its own right.

 

[De Geso]

1 minute ago, The DanMan said:

So we're complaining about a single mistranslation in a 14 year old game now. 

I follow multiple people who know Japanese (one of whom studied it in hope of becoming a localizer), and adhering "as closely as possible" to the original Japanese is an easy way to lose nuance and meaning. Dialogue ends up far more stilted and unnatural; the controversy that arose around Persona 5, a series that's already infamous for weeb pandering (leaving honorofics entirely intact) demonstrates that it's pretty unpopular in its own right.

 

"You aren't allowed to complain about things because they go against what I think!" Dude, come on. The point is that they botch translations regularly, and have been - it isn't a new phenomenon.

The controversy that arose around Persona 5 was manufactured by the same pack of clowns who defended garbage like Fates and Awakening's localization. The people who actually care about Persona 5 appreciate that the original meaning and intention was left intact - and you know that was what I meant when I said "adhered as closely as possible to the original script." It wasn't changed to add memes or to prevent hurt feelings (see: Soleil).

[Hardin]

Persona 5's controversy was not manufactured. It was a sloppy and unprofessional job, and people were right to call them out on it. 

[The DanMan]

Just now, YouSquiddinMe said:

"You aren't allowed to complain about things because they go against what I think!" Dude, come on. The point is that they botch translations regularly, and have been - it isn't a new phenomenon.

The controversy that arose around Persona 5 was manufactured by the same pack of clowns who defended garbage like Fates and Awakening's localization. The people who actually care about Persona 5 appreciate that the original meaning and intention was left intact - and you know that was what I meant when I said "adhered as closely as possible to the original script." It wasn't changed to add memes or to prevent hurt feelings (see: Soleil).

By and large, I'm fine with Fates' and Awakening's (and SoV's) localizations. There are a few things that could be improved, but they don't bother me.
I've seen long-time Persona fans criticize P5 due to the odd and likely rushed localization. It's as "manufactured" as criticism of Awakening and Fates' localizations were; just I because I don't agree with them, I'm not insulting them as "manufactured".

Also, do you have ANY IDEA HOW BIG OF A FIRESTORM SOLEIL SET OFF?! That's the exact kind of shit that localization is supposed to change-- stuff that is an absolute no-go in other cultures. Everybody was on about it and that was all people knew about the game for months (we had people as late as Corrin's Smash reveal still going on about it in this very forum). What the Soleil/M!Corrin support set off was huge and needed to be addressed. 

What I'm getting from you is "You're not allowed to think differently from me so I'm going to go holier-than-thou on you while passive-aggressively putting down other's opinions". 

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 hours ago, YouSquiddinMe said:

Nergal's HHM death quote losing all of its meaning.

That wasn't a conscious localization choice, that was just incompetency (it was the first FE to leave Japan, and Nintendo outside of FE doesn't make script-heavy games). It was long before Treehouse and 8-4 existed. Any mistake or change made in pre-Awakening FE was just an error. Barring the change of why the Black Knight lived through PoR, that must have been a conscious move and 95% of people (I have seen voices to the contrary) would say that was a good move.

Well toning down Kyza and altering Devdan must have been conscious moves too, but to be fair, Devdan was going to be a wreck either way.

[Slumber]

1 hour ago, The DanMan said:

That never happened.

You had Effie's battle lines (which would actually be right at home in Awakening, as most characters had straightforward and generic ones that became far more gimmicky in the localization) and Hisame's My Room lines, but besides that nobody lost character development or underwent any personality changes. 8-4's the one who re-wrote multiple characters in Awakening and makes everybody as snarky as Joss Whedon characters.

 

Right. So tell me about how exactly Beruka and Saizo find common ground as assassins and how they feel about killing? Because that support is straight up replaced with a series of ellipses in the Treehouse translation. 

[The DanMan]

Just now, Slumber said:

Right. So tell me about how exactly Beruka and Saizo find common ground as assassins and how they feel about killing? Because that support is straight up replaced with a series of ellipses in the Treehouse translation. 

...You know, I had completely forgotten about that. 
Guess it's kind of easy to with nearly two thousand supports. 

[NinjaMonkey]

Either 8-4 or the Treehouse, as they do a good job at the localisation.

[De Geso]

3 hours ago, The DanMan said:

By and large, I'm fine with Fates' and Awakening's (and SoV's) localizations. There are a few things that could be improved, but they don't bother me.
I've seen long-time Persona fans criticize P5 due to the odd and likely rushed localization. It's as "manufactured" as criticism of Awakening and Fates' localizations were; just I because I don't agree with them, I'm not insulting them as "manufactured".

Also, do you have ANY IDEA HOW BIG OF A FIRESTORM SOLEIL SET OFF?! That's the exact kind of shit that localization is supposed to change-- stuff that is an absolute no-go in other cultures. Everybody was on about it and that was all people knew about the game for months (we had people as late as Corrin's Smash reveal still going on about it in this very forum). What the Soleil/M!Corrin support set off was huge and needed to be addressed. 

What I'm getting from you is "You're not allowed to think differently from me so I'm going to go holier-than-thou on you while passive-aggressively putting down other's opinions". 

I'm not calling it manufactured because I disagree with it, I'm calling it manufactured because it's phony complaints from people who don't care about Persona. Yes, some people thought the localization was "rushed," however that's hardly a universal opinion and for the most part I've only seen people who feel opposite to what you're saying - and as a long time Persona fan myself, I'm more than happy with the localization.

Art and storytelling should not be compromised in favor of someone's feelings. The only people who cared about the Soleil thing were keyboard warriors who care about everything - and I know a lot of the complaints were from people who, surprise, don't play Fire Emblem anyway. Controversy does not warrant altering a game's script for other audiences.

I assume that last statement was inflammatory nonsense trying to stop me from saying what I have to say.

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

That wasn't a conscious localization choice, that was just incompetency (it was the first FE to leave Japan, and Nintendo outside of FE doesn't make script-heavy games). It was long before Treehouse and 8-4 existed. Any mistake or change made in pre-Awakening FE was just an error. Barring the change of why the Black Knight lived through PoR, that must have been a conscious move and 95% of people (I have seen voices to the contrary) would say that was a good move.

Well toning down Kyza and altering Devdan must have been conscious moves too, but to be fair, Devdan was going to be a wreck either way.

That's a fair point on the Nergal thing.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

Right. So tell me about how exactly Beruka and Saizo find common ground as assassins and how they feel about killing? Because that support is straight up replaced with a series of ellipses in the Treehouse translation. 

You know, that's one of my favorite supports from that game. I don't know about the original script, but the English version is compelling enough that you want to hear the end of the story.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Glennstavos

[Slumber]

20 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

You know, that's one of my favorite supports from that game. I don't know about the original script, but the English version is compelling enough that you want to hear the end of the story.

It basically is them establishing their feelings towards their jobs. 

Saizo feels great guilt and pain that he has to do it, saying he remembers the faces of all of his victims. Beruka tells him she feels nothing. 

It does a good job at contrasting the two, while also showing how they're connecting over their job. Certainly much better than a series of dots for laughs. 

Edited October 30, 2017 by Slumber

[Zapp Branniglenn]

8 minutes ago, Slumber said:

It basically is them establishing their feelings towards their jobs. 

Saizo feels great guilt and pain that he has to do it, saying he remembers the faces of all of his victims. Beruka tells him she feels nothing. 

It does a good job at contrasting the two, while also showing how they're connecting over their job. Certainly much better than a series of dots for laughs. 

That's just part one though. I like the idea of these two having almost encountered each other on opposite sides of an assassination plot.