Ike and Lyn popularity?

[Rezzy]

6 minutes ago, Florete said:

That really isn't accurate, though. If every individual character had only one slot, they'd likely have a bit less votes than the current combined total, and since Lyn and the two Ikes combined were pretty close as-is, there's no way to say who really would have had more votes. If IS were to look at that poll for a single "winner," it would be Lyn, not Ike.

I don't see how Marth would lose any votes if his Shadow Dragon and Mystery versions were combined.  They're still the same character.  Maybe characters like Tiki who are drastically different could justify two different slots, but most of the characters aren't.

[Icelerate]

19 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I don't see how Marth would lose any votes if his Shadow Dragon and Mystery versions were combined.  They're still the same character.  Maybe characters like Tiki who are drastically different could justify two different slots, but most of the characters aren't.

 

 

Some people hate RD Ike but love PoR Ike for whatever reason so if the two Ikes were combined, I have a feeling some of the PoR Ike voters may have hesitated to throw their votes behind combined Ike because the more recent version of Ike is RD Ike. Furthermore, some may only want to throw one vote per character but because certain characters were listed twice, they decided to throw one vote for each to cover their bases. That's why combining votes of characters is not an accurate way of gauging popularity.  

 

Edited November 4, 2017 by Icelerate

[Acacia Sgt]

4 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I don't see how Marth would lose any votes if his Shadow Dragon and Mystery versions were combined.  They're still the same character.  Maybe characters like Tiki who are drastically different could justify two different slots, but most of the characters aren't.

Well, look at it this way.

A person could vote up to thirteen times. How many put votes to all versions of a character who had more than one spot on the list? How many would actually vote as many times if there was only one option? If person X voted three times for PoR!Ike, and two times for RD!Ike, there's no guarantee they would've voted five times for a single Ike option.

Personally, I wouldn't trust the results of the CYL poll. While I subscribe to the line of thought that "Equality does not always means Justice", for something like a voting process, I go the opposite. Any system where the voter to vote ration is not 1:1, it doesn't have my full trust. Or any given case that a person's vote is worth more than another person's.

[Icelerate]

34 minutes ago, Florete said:

I always did find it peculiar that Ike's games apparently bombed (I personally don't see it that way, but that's what they say), yet he's super popular. I'm sure Smash is a factor, but when you compare how actual FE fans think of him vs Roy, the difference is pretty big; FE fans typically aren't big on Roy, but Ike is still pretty well-loved.

I think Smash has very little to do with Lyn's popularity, if anything at all. Individual assist trophies are usually only a big deal for people who are already fans of that character. They may get some attention if their series doesn't have a rep on the playable roster, but that's not the case with Lyn. This may be shocking to some, but I think Lyn is popular because people just genuinely like her as a character in her game.

That really isn't accurate, though. If every individual character had only one slot, they'd likely have a bit less votes than the current combined total, and since Lyn and the two Ikes combined were pretty close as-is, there's no way to say who really would have had more votes. If IS were to look at that poll for a single "winner," it would be Lyn, not Ike.

Production value wise, aren't PoR and RD much more expensive to produce due to the sheer amount of content in comparison to most FE games barring possibly the 3DS games? This along with selling less than the GBA games is why people consider them to be a flop. I do believe a rerelease or HD remake will sell quite well due to the high demand when you look at their market price. 

Roy ended up in 2nd place for males despite his game not releasing in the West so I believe that SSB boosted all FE characters popularity significantly. Moreso Ike because he was in the more recent Brawl and not a DLC Smash 4 character. 

I think Lyn got so many votes because she was easily the most popular traditional female character and many veterans did not want the newer FE females to win the vote so they pooled as many votes into Lyn as possible. 

[bethany81707]

I'm not sure why people say Lyn's Assist Trophy role was that minor. Admittedly, Roy was the reason I went looking outside my Tellius bubble, but I got hooked into the game's prequel (when the LPer suggested I do so first) when I saw it was the game with that Lyn Assist Trophy.

Heck, that lingering feeling is probably why I don't think of Hector as god reincarnate. Then again, girls tend to do better for me anyway (hey, Jill is my first great wyvern, and also my first female one).

[Zapp Branniglenn]

2 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Kat & Ana, Sable Prince.

Lol, when I said Transformer I meant guy that looks like one, not the kid that transforms.

[Skyla]

Smash might have played a role in helping people discover their games since Tellius did sold rather poorly, but I doubt their popularity is only because of Smash. 

Remember, Robin and Lucina are not only in Smash but their games are also the most popular in terms of sales. Due to this they should have blown the competition away if smash played such a big factor in Cyl. Lucina and Robin are also top tier units in Smash where as Ike is terrible in it. He's so slow, and Lyn isn't even a playable character.

Ike also won the CYL voting gauntlet.

Smash only fans might have voted on the Cyl poll since it was open but would they seriously download a game just to vote for Ike?

Sales of a game always doesn't matter. 

I have a physical copy of Awakening and I don't like the game or the characters.

Rd and POR are emulated and I love them to death.

The only reason Awakening sold so well was because of the timing and marketing. 

Did any of you ever heard of a fire emblem game before Awakening?

[Florete]

3 minutes ago, Skylorella Con said:

Did any of you ever heard of a fire emblem game before Awakening?

What forum do you think you're at? Plenty of people here were fans before Awakening.

Also lol @ Robin being top tier in Smash. "Ike is so slow" Robin is slower.

[NekoKnight]

1 hour ago, Skylorella Con said:

Did any of you ever heard of a fire emblem game before Awakening?

Hello there.

I first learned about Blazing Sword from an ad in a gaming magazine, saw the characters, thought they looked cool and dived down the rabbit hole. You are correct that Awakening's success can be attributed to better advertising though.

Concerning Lyn and Ike, I suspect Lyn's fans had her as their first lord and Ike's fans are a combination of FE7 vets who stuck with the franchise, and more fans who used him in Smash.

[Skyla]

1 hour ago, NekoKnight said:

Hello there.

I first learned about Blazing Sword from an ad in a gaming magazine, saw the characters, thought they looked cool and dived down the rabbit hole. You are correct that Awakening's success can be attributed to better advertising though.

 

2 hours ago, Florete said:

What forum do you think you're at? Plenty of people here were fans before Awakening.

I guess the correct wording would've been 'Most People'.

The franchise got the spotlight it has today because of Awakening.

2 hours ago, Florete said:

Also lol @ Robin being top tier in Smash. "Ike is so slow" Robin is slower.

Well, you'll have to excuse me for this since I've never played Smash.

According to my boyfriend, Ike is terrible due to his slow mobility.

So I had no idea Robin was slow as well.

 

[Just call me AL]

1 hour ago, NekoKnight said:

I suspect Lyn's fans had her as their first lord

Not all of them, though. But of course, this is me speaking personally. I mean, I admit, Lyn's one of my favorites. But my first FE lord was Ike.

[SoulWeaver]

10 hours ago, Skylorella Con said:

According to my boyfriend, Ike is terrible due to his slow mobility.

Ike still hits like a truck, and has decent potential in the hands of an experienced player with his Neutral Air and Forward Air providing decent hitboxes and his Back Air and Up Tilt having good startup and end lag, plus his Forward Throw comes out fast enough that it's a decent mixup to throw people off. Robin takes a LOT more effort to yield similar results because Robin is so blasted gimmicky, what with the whole weapon uses thing, the fact that Robin plays completely differently from the other Fire Emblem characters due to being a magic character instead of a swordie, and(at least for me) the lack of a Counter, something every other FE fighter brings to the table. Unfortunately for me, neither of them are as bad as Roy, who while faster than the other two still has the frustrating hitbox setup that completely defeats the purpose of being a sword character, not to mention his movement is hurt by the lack of Melee's physics and technical movement, such as Wavedashing. He's still Our Boi™, though.

14 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Lol, when I said Transformer I meant guy that looks like one, not the kid that transforms.

Forever RIP Custom Robo - the series that could have been. We discovered it without ever realizing there was an Assist Trophy in Brawl or a Trophy in Melee. Both the Internationalized games are amazing, it's a shame we never got the other three. Also #HailMarv.

[Lau]

Ike is popular due to Smash...memes. "We like Ike" "I fight for my friends" "You'll get no sympathy from me". Granted, I despise Ike, but I genuinely like him in Smash, he was pretty badass in the SSE. That's it, really. Americans like guys with bigass swords that hit like a truck. Smash 4 buffs him up with his RD design, causing more memes. It's an endless cycle of memes. However, I acknowledge that the Tellius games are popular. ...In the FE community, so maybe that plays a part.

For Lyn, I don't think it's Smash. She's an Assist Trophy...you're not guaranteed to see her. I think it's because A, she's admittedly attractive, what with the legs and increasing bust size, B, she's the 'American Marth' bitchpls meaning she's the first person players are gonna meet, and C...die hard veterans.

I don't particularly like either of them, but heyho.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

On 11/4/2017 at 8:22 AM, Rezzy said:

I don't see how Marth would lose any votes if his Shadow Dragon and Mystery versions were combined.  They're still the same character.  Maybe characters like Tiki who are drastically different could justify two different slots, but most of the characters aren't.

 

Yeah on Marth it would be minor, but theres actually a conflicting opinion for Shadow Dragon and New Mystery Marth. Japan generally disliked Shadow Dragon Marth.

[B_E_P_I_S_M_A_N]

10 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

 

Yeah on Marth it would be minor, but theres actually a conflicting opinion for Shadow Dragon and New Mystery Marth. Japan generally disliked Shadow Dragon Marth.

Original Shadow Dragon or the DS remake?  I never played through all of the original Shadow Dragon, but to me, it seems more like a lack of characterization attributed to the limitations of the hardware.  I can easily forgive that, because Shadow Dragon is damn impressive for an NES game, in terms of scope.  There's probably something here I'm missing, though.  I never played the remake, so I'm not sure what they did to him there.

[Book Bro]

When will the meme of "these characters I don't like are only popular because of Smash " end?

Smash fans aren't going to vote on some obscure FE mobile game poll. Nor the various other polls where Ike and Lyn have done well. Smash helped Ike's popularity sure, just as it helps Marth's or Lucina's popularity. More exposure is always going to make a character more memorable than if they only appeared in one game. Lyn is a random assist trophy in Smash, so only FE fans would really remember her cameo there in the first place. Project M, maybe, as I think she was made playable, but only hardcore Smash fans would really know about that, and her being made playable is a result of her popularity, not a cause for it.

It's pretty clear that within the FE fandom people like Ike because he's generally considered the best developed lord, even if you personally dislike him. And Lyn is liked mainly for being the first Western lord. And yes there are a lot of FE characters but main characters will always be more popular than supporting ones. I don't know about Japanese fans, but that's the reasoning I've consistently seen for Western fans.

I personally consider both Ike and Lyn to be very strong main characters. The main complaints are usually that Ike is boring in RD and Lyn is irrelevant after the prologue. I see RD Ike as a continuation of the development he got in PoR, so I don't see him as boring at all. And I think Lyn's story is a really good albeit short story.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

6 hours ago, B_E_P_I_S_M_A_N said:

Original Shadow Dragon or the DS remake?  I never played through all of the original Shadow Dragon, but to me, it seems more like a lack of characterization attributed to the limitations of the hardware.  I can easily forgive that, because Shadow Dragon is damn impressive for an NES game, in terms of scope.  There's probably something here I'm missing, though.  I never played the remake, so I'm not sure what they did to him there.

Remake SD

[NoirCore]

14 minutes ago, Book Bro said:

When will the meme of "these characters I don't like are only popular because of Smash " end?

Smash fans aren't going to vote on some obscure FE mobile game poll. Nor the various other polls where Ike and Lyn have done well. Smash helped Ike's popularity sure, just as it helps Marth's or Lucina's popularity. More exposure is always going to make a character more memorable than if they only appeared in one game. Lyn is a random assist trophy in Smash, so only FE fans would really remember her cameo there in the first place. Project M, maybe, as I think she was made playable, but only hardcore Smash fans would really know about that, and her being made playable is a result of her popularity, not a cause for it.

It's pretty clear that within the FE fandom people like Ike because he's generally considered the best developed lord, even if you personally dislike him. And Lyn is liked mainly for being the first Western lord. And yes there are a lot of FE characters but main characters will always be more popular than supporting ones. I don't know about Japanese fans, but that's the reasoning I've consistently seen for Western fans.

I personally consider both Ike and Lyn to be very strong main characters. The main complaints are usually that Ike is boring in RD and Lyn is irrelevant after the prologue. I see RD Ike as a continuation of the development he got in PoR, so I don't see him as boring at all. And I think Lyn's story is a really good albeit short story.

Is Heroes really obscure, though? I mean, it was announced in a Direct as a F2P game alongside the poll. I imagine a free game would at least draw some if not plenty of interest from Smash fans not into FE to at least vote for Ike (especially if just for the sake of his memetic quotes), Lucina, and especially Roy, given what I've observed of the FE fandom's perception of him not being positive enough to mostly make up his 2nd place standing among males (according to my intuition). I'll excuse Lyn, though, given her lack of notability in Smash outside of an Assist Trophy.

[SoulWeaver]

1 hour ago, Book Bro said:

Project M, maybe, as I think she was made playable

Would you happen to know anywhere that might be able to confirm this? I heard it as a rumor right when they shut the downloads down, but I can't find any info confirming it and I really wanted to see what they did with her.

[Stephen the Great]

On 11/3/2017 at 3:15 AM, Lucario666 said:

So, considering that their respective games have NEVER sold well outside Japan, how did Ike and Lyn become the most popular characters in the series? (outside of Smash) To me, there has to be a reason. 

My personal theory is that they looked attractive. A lot of fans may have experienced some degree of physical/sexual attraction to Lyn and Ike compared to, say, Roy and Lucina.

[Dandy Druid]

Smash played a role definitely, but I'm surprised y'all haven't talked about their appearances (except for the guy above me). They're both relatively attractive and get plenty of screen time.

Ike has had the pleasure of being in 2 games, so his "lean and mean" physique in PoR appeals to some while his buff RD appearance appeals to others. Guys and girls would consider him relatively attractive in one of these forms, even if they don't necessarily swing that way. Not to mention Tellius is highly regarded within the FE community as an FE game(s) that have achieved a good story mixed in with great gameplay (PoR in particular). Plus, he's the only lord out of 15 games  that isn't royalty in any way. (about 17 lords- not sure if Elincia is counted as one- some people do some people don't idk)

Lyn's design is relatively sexy. Not overtly sexy, like Camilla, but the exposed legs combined with the long ponytail is really eye-catching. Plus her main colors are all shades of green. Her appearance very memorable. Also, FE7 was a lot of people's first (not mine, but that's another story), so Lyn also has the nostalgia factor in her favor. She was a lot of people's "first" (First lord, first playable unit, first character they've seen).

This explains at least the Western perspective, I can't say for Japan.

[Florete]

5 hours ago, SoulWeaver said:

Would you happen to know anywhere that might be able to confirm this? I heard it as a rumor right when they shut the downloads down, but I can't find any info confirming it and I really wanted to see what they did with her.

She was being developed, but never publicly released. There were a couple videos of people playing a build with a close-to-finished version of her, so it was definitely a thing. Well, almost a thing.

[Etrurian emperor]

10 hours ago, Sigismund of Luxemburg said:

My personal theory is that they looked attractive. A lot of fans may have experienced some degree of physical/sexual attraction to Lyn and Ike compared to, say, Roy and Lucina.

Roy may not have to many people into him since he's a kid and looks the part but I hear plenty of people being atracted to Lucina and naming her their "waifu". She's very popular to pair with the avatar for a reason.

[SoulWeaver]

7 hours ago, Florete said:

She was being developed, but never publicly released. There were a couple videos of people playing a build with a close-to-finished version of her, so it was definitely a thing. Well, almost a thing.

Ah, dang. Oh well, maybe someone will fish the data up in the future and make up a Project M for Smash 4 with her in it.

[Book Bro]

14 hours ago, NoirCore said:

Is Heroes really obscure, though? I mean, it was announced in a Direct as a F2P game alongside the poll. I imagine a free game would at least draw some if not plenty of interest from Smash fans not into FE to at least vote for Ike (especially if just for the sake of his memetic quotes), Lucina, and especially Roy, given what I've observed of the FE fandom's perception of him not being positive enough to mostly make up his 2nd place standing among males (according to my intuition). I'll excuse Lyn, though, given her lack of notability in Smash outside of an Assist Trophy.

Heroes isn't obscure, but the poll sure would have been for anyone who wasn't already an FE fan. I just don't see someone who only likes Ike in Smash going out of their way to visit the Heroes site and find the poll. Maybe a few people but enough to make a difference? I doubt it.

57 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

Ah, dang. Oh well, maybe someone will fish the data up in the future and make up a Project M for Smash 4 with her in it.

Or hey, playable in Smash Switch? Ah who am I kidding, she and Isaac will just have to live on as assist trophies forever.