Ayra Update: Where do you stand?

[Charmeleonbrah]

2 hours ago, Okigen said:

I'm a bit indiferrent about the whole thing.

I don't have any problem with her not being free. People forget too quickly that IS has been quite generous with free units already. CYL, BK and Arden are all awesome. Arden isn't good-looking, but you can't exactly expect top quality service for free foods. I'm more annoyed by people whining about free Ayras as if IS had the obligation to give top tier free waifus all the time.

However, I'm quite bothered by the way she was released. It wouldn't have been much problem if she was in Sigurd's banner. Given the game had amassed more than $100m of revenue already, one would hope they could sacrifice a bit of profit for the game's longetivity, or to prop up the FE brand to new players. Alas, I obviously don't understand the gacha industry.

Honestly, that was my initial impression when everyone lost their collective sh*t about Ayra.  It seemed that the anger came mainly from the fact that they weren't getting a top tier waifu for free. 

I know how my mind works, though.  I won't even care by next month when they release a new set of characters to drool over.  Players getting Black Knight for free was AWESOME at first, and now i'm totally indifferent about him.  Same with the CYL characters, Nephenee, etc. 

2 hours ago, VincentASM said:

Seasonal units have their issues, certainly. But at least you get a generous window of opportunity and they are widely advertised.

Ayra just appeared out of nowhere mere days after the main Holy War banner and there was basically no good reason for her to be separate from Holy War, considering it was a 3-man banner and she could've been the 4th. Not to mention, by then, most people probably burned their orbs hunting for Sigurd etc.

On a related note, I do think the Halloween banner was released rather unfairly, just days before Halloween starts, while other games tend to release them earlier. So a lot of people probably thought there wouldn't be one. (And of course, I had to burn all my Orbs on Performing Arts, ahaha.)

EDIT

Anyway, my position is mostly unchanged. I am not a huge fan of Ayra, nor do I really want her, but I am very annoyed with how they released her (as mentioned in my 2nd paragraph). Just less annoyed than earlier XD

I thought this was strange too.  Why did IS wait until the day before Halloween to release this banner?  My guess is that they were waiting for Performing Arts to end, but they messed up 'the feel' of it.  On a side note, H! Nowi's voice acting is the most stupidly cute in the game.  "Yay!  Treat time!  Triiick!"

[Dandy Druid]

I'm indifferent- I really like Ayra, but she's not one of my favorites from her game.

I think it is cheap to include her with units that are old, but what can you expect from a gacha game. 

[Sartek]

As far as how she got released:

I'm kinda numb about it. Since I played Fate/Go since its japanese launch, I kinda accepted bait banners as part of the mobile gacha experience. While I understand how people can see it as a dirty move, part of the issue is the playerbase, since I saw so many players assume that she would be the tempest rewards or GHB and I think that they hyped themselves too much and the fall was even harder thanks to that. (It doesn't help that I feel like the players are a bit spoiled in FEH too)

 

 

As far as her performance as an unit:

In my opinion she is a good example of powercreep, but let's face it, Reinhart and B!Lyn are far too oppresive in arena, and I think that amount of power is necessary for a sword user to not be a liability. (Sigurd and Arden are quite busted too, while Tiltyu and Deirdre are more in line with what was already there)

Edited November 4, 2017 by Sartek

[Johann]

I'm largely indifferent since while she has some unique advantages, she doesn't do anything that other units can't already do.

I'm also suspecting that the Geneology characters were purposely made to be as good as they are to generate interest for the game's characters. Long-term marketing moves and all that.

[Cute Chao]

I don't really care that she was included on another banner like she was. I want more characters in the game however it's done and at least people know not to assume about units they see now. If you want a unit and it's been in a trailer, wait to see how it will be released before you decide to pull or not. A warning would have been nice, but oh well. I'm more annoyed that she kept ruining my pulls for Eldigan - to the point where I don't dare pull for Karel since I know Ryoma will do that same (I gave it one shot and he already did so once). 

As for the power creep... The BST doesn't bother me so much. I'm more annoyed that the one special that could save a lot of high speed low attack characters has been locked to her. With the amount of her I pulled, I would've happily given it to Navarre and Lon'qu, but I can't, and this really grates on me. I hope they stop doing this locked specials crud, but I bet they won't. At least I hope they will introduce more varied specials that characters can get (based on speed, particularly. Maybe HP, since I don't think that has one, either) in the future. 

[Ciarre]

She's my favorite FE4 character so ofc I pulled for her.

This whole debacle was pretty scummy but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I use her regularly because she's pretty fun to use and doesn't drag down my arena score. I don't even care about swift sparrow, I replaced it with fury for the extra bulk and EP offense. 

Powercreep? BST wise, sure, maybe, but fighting her in arena isn't a problem. Using her on offense is pretty ridiculous, but without player control she's really not that much of a threat.

[Hilda]

I didnt pull for Ayra, nor will I. I will let my wallet speak, and i havent pulled much for the Halloween banner either. 2 Sakuras thats it. I will let my wallet speak.

What I am not okay with:
- Haveing an uninheritable Special that makes her auto outclass all other Myrmidons. Skills should be inheritable so other units can catch up too
- A special that is absurdly godlike (40% SPD modifier on 2 charge cooldown, vs 50% Def modifier on 3 charg dooldown, something doesnt ad up her mathematicly!)
- on top of that Higher BST. The BST wouldnt mind me if her Special was a bit toned down and inheritable
- Being on a seperate banner off from Sigurd Deirdre etc....

What I am ok with:
- Her weapon is in my eyes good, but i am ok with that
- Her BST if the special wasnt exclusiv (see above)

in Short: I am very very hesitant to pull at the moment and prolly wont pull much for the next 2-3 months, i want to see first where this new CYL trend is going.
Is she powercreep: definityl
does she break the game: nope, but she is annoying to face without a Blue mage/very tanky blue unit (which is my case)

[Okigen]

35 minutes ago, Johann said:

I'm also suspecting that the Geneology characters were purposely made to be as good as they are to generate interest for the game's characters. Long-term marketing moves and all that.

I hope so. That will confirm FE4 remake!

[Ae†her]

I see her as powercreep, and I see her release as such a dick move on IS's part. I just want some S+ Tier units that are not Red, the kind that can out-utilize or out-power Reinhardt.

[Alkaid]

The way she was introduced was uncharacteristically scummy for this game, which was pretty concerning. I'm not bothered she wasn't a free unit. That was the fault of people just assuming she would be (though pretty reasonably). But yeah, the way they went about adding her was strange and felt like something done with intent to sucker people out of money.

As an actual unit? I think she is powercreep, mainly due to her weapon and skill rather than her stats. Her stats alone would still be odd but not make her quite the anomaly that she is. 

In practice I don't find her that big of a deal though. I usually have some kind of blue mage, brave lance, or swordbreaker unit on my arena team and she gets bodied by all of those just as much as most sword units do. And I think most people carry something like that too. So she's still objectively OP but she doesn't really shift the meta at all, or come off as especially oppressive like she does on paper.

[DefyingFates]

For a game that has been incredibly generous, Ayra's release was scummy as heck. I spent 200 F2P Orbs for her (because I'd just assumed she'd be free and I guess my brain snapped), but I'm still furious about it. Hopefully IS doesn't do the same again and the backlash taught them a lesson. I also hope they see people refusing to spend on the first banner of a month because they're waiting for the following TT Banner.

As a unit, Ayra is definitely one of the strongest I have and, as much as I regret pulling for her, I appreciate having her as a result, if that makes sense.

That said, I don't usually struggled against her in Arenas as I do against other units (I don't specifically try to check her in AA for example, so at least she's not THAT much of a powercreep.

Edited November 4, 2017 by DefyingFates

[Charmeleonbrah]

1 hour ago, Sartek said:

As far as how she got released:

I'm kinda numb about it. Since I played Fate/Go since its japanese launch, I kinda accepted bait banners as part of the mobile gacha experience. While I understand how people can see it as a dirty move, part of the issue is the playerbase, since I saw so many players assume that she would be the tempest rewards or GHB and I think that they hyped themselves too much and the fall was even harder thanks to that. (It doesn't help that I feel like the players are a bit spoiled in FEH too)

I'm not quite sure why people assumed that Ayra would be the TT reward unit.  Most of the FE Youtubers, even PM1, believed she would be the reward. 

1 hour ago, Okigen said:

I hope so. That will confirm FE4 remake!

I feel like Binding Blade will be the next remake...FE7 is one of the more popular games in the series, and I'd assume some of the Western player base would like to finally play the sequel.  Aka there's a market for it.  Also, they need to clean up that mess of a game! 

[Sartek]

27 minutes ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

I'm not quite sure why people assumed that Ayra would be the TT reward unit.  Most of the FE Youtubers, even PM1, believed she would be the reward.

Because last time we saw an unit in a trailer who was not in the banner, it was Clive, a reward from a TT. And from leaks that were right on every points up until then (the only thing that as yet to be proven right, is that L'Arachel won't be released for at least another month) we knew that Alvis was the coming GHB.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Sartek

[Sire]

I'm not happy about the powercreep and the execution behind Ayra's release. Recent trends are also troubling, so much so that I lost my enthusiasm for playing Heroes. I haven't even bothered with Tempest Trials and had some of those "Dev Challenges" quests left uncleared. I haven't even chosen a team for the Voting Gauntlet if that is going on...

Some of my problems with the game are...

1. The introduction of Slaying Weapons. This is before Ayra, but Slaying Weapons outclass Killer Weapons, period. If this was to make Killers more viable in terms of balance, then I understand the changes. The execution, however, is not something I agree with. (If Killer Weapons could be upgraded into Slaying Weapons, then this would become less of an issue for me.)
The general introduction of new weapons have also been rubbing me the wrong way.  Seashell+ and Dancer's Fan+ outclass the normal Silver Dagger due to their additional effects. Heck, the Dancer's Fan has Breath of Life 3 while Aura, an original Legendary Weapon, only has Breath of Life 2!

2. Legendary Weapon Powercreep is another concern. For the CYL heroes, I thought it would be a "one-time" thing that happens only on the very special of occasions. However, as of late new Legendary Weapons have been outclassing the originals. Valter may be considered the first due to his Cursed Lance, but since he was free no one seemed to mind. For summons, Elincia may be the first while Azura may be the second. Obvious Legendary Weapon Powercreep reveals itself with Sigurd and Ayra. Yes, they may be considered "on par" with the CYL heroes (Ayra's sword is essentially a SPD version of Brave!Roy's Durandal), but if CYL is the new standard, I am not liking where this can possibly lead.

I understand some people like gear treadmills. Take World of Warcraft for example. Each expansion has superior gear to the last, and getting the best items resets over and over per expansion release. However, I am not a big fan of these treadmills and prefer "alternative, horizontal progression" than simply buffing up the numbers.

3. The slow increase of BST and stats is another concern. I thought Heroes had a formula for balancing and CYL was again, a "one-off" thing. Recent heroes seem to be trying to be on par or better with the CYL heroes, and that does not sit well with me. Sigurd has 4 more points than other Cavalry, and Ayra has "Trainee" stats. The new Armor units of Jakob and Henry do not have as sharp of a stat penalty due to their ranged weapons (unless they considered 1 movement to be draining so they did not lower the stats as much).

4. Uninheritable skills. On paper, they are nice as they bring back some sense of individuality to each character instead of everything just being a stat stick with different personalities. However, some of these skills are just insane. The Follow-Up Ring seems nuts, even if it is stuck on an Armor Unit. Why isn't Regnal Astra a normal "new special" and is restricted to Ayra? It will need some tweaking, sure, but a SPD version would be nice to complement existing skills such as Ignis, Glacies, Dragon Fang, and Vengeance.

5. The execution of the Ayra banner. This basically speaks for itself, why is Ayra, a new unit, tossed into a banner with old ones?! This has been discussed to death by others.

6. Tempest Trial Bonus Heroes - This is another complaint. Why are there no "Free Heroes" available to be used, such as the Askr Trio or Masked Marth? Why isn't Seliph a bonus hero if he is featured in the story of the Tempest?! I understand the focus wants to be on the first generation, but still.

* * * * *

Long story short, I'm not too happy with the direction Heroes is going. I thought IS was doing all right, especially with the CYL event. After Performing Arts, it started going somewhere I did not agree with. My logic is probably flawed and screwed at this point, but my faith is Intelligent Systems is gone once again. Only time will tell if I will stick around long enough for them to change their direction, if they change at all.

[Alkaid]

49 minutes ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

I'm not quite sure why people assumed that Ayra would be the TT reward unit.  Most of the FE Youtubers, even PM1, believed she would be the reward. 

A mix of the trend there had been and the datamines. While the trend is now broken, it had been that the extra units present in the paralogue/chapters that weren't part of the new banner came after in the TT reward like Clive and BK did. (I forget if Tobin was like that) So people saw both Ayra and Arden and assumed they'd follow suit, or one of them would have a special thing to get them.(but not a banner, still) The dataminers also lead people to believe Ayra would be 4* and 5* availability, which lined up with a TT reward unit. Arden they said was 5* only, so people even thought Ayra could be the 4* reward and Arden the 5* one. OR that Ayra could have a GHB or something. The point is, a banner was the last thing considered by most due to the circumstances.

It's kind of understandable people make these assumptions to a degree, since Ayra's whole situation was still a curve ball to say the least. But in the end it just added to people being pissed off when it turned out like it did. 

Edited November 4, 2017 by Alkaid

[Lord-Zero]

I don’t have her and I don’t have any intentions of rolling for her in her banner. She’s a melee red sword infantry unit so she still dies to the common threats easily. 

The banner was terribly handled, though. Making her part of  a banner with old units and not only that, making her share focus with Eldigan was a terrible idea. 

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

2 hours ago, Hilda said:

I didnt pull for Ayra, nor will I. I will let my wallet speak, and i havent pulled much for the Halloween banner either. 2 Sakuras thats it. I will let my wallet speak.

What I am not okay with:
- Haveing an uninheritable Special that makes her auto outclass all other Myrmidons. Skills should be inheritable so other units can catch up too
- A special that is absurdly godlike (40% SPD modifier on 2 charge cooldown, vs 50% Def modifier on 3 charg dooldown, something doesnt ad up her mathematicly!)
- on top of that Higher BST. The BST wouldnt mind me if her Special was a bit toned down and inheritable
- Being on a seperate banner off from Sigurd Deirdre etc....

What I am ok with:
- Her weapon is in my eyes good, but i am ok with that
- Her BST if the special wasnt exclusiv (see above)

in Short: I am very very hesitant to pull at the moment and prolly wont pull much for the next 2-3 months, i want to see first where this new CYL trend is going.
Is she powercreep: definityl
does she break the game: nope, but she is annoying to face without a Blue mage/very tanky blue unit (which is my case)

This is the only thing i disagree, because if you look at Black Luna(instead of Bonfire), then back to Regnal Astra, it actually adds up. 

 

Mind it doesn't make it okay from "design" perspective in my opinion. But thats because i hate Black Luna to begin with, so anything that is simmilar to Black Luna is a black mark on my ends

Edited November 5, 2017 by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

[DLNarshen]

I was annoyed, but not necessarily because I wouldn't get her without summoning on the banner and hoping for some luck.  I was annoyed because it broke well-established precedent in such a sleazy, unapologetic way. 

I've noticed there's been at least a couple of folks in this thread wondering why so many people expected her to be free, and that they shouldn't have gotten their hopes up.  My counter to that is that why wouldn't they have expected her to be free?  Until Ayra, every single unit that's been introduced to the game without being immediately added to the summoning pool has eventually been given out for free either in a GHB or as a Tempest reward (Bruno and Veronica being the exceptions; it's hard to make any assumptions what's going to happen with them).  See: the initial wave of GHBs + Lloyd, Legion and Clarisse with the New Mystery banner, Clive and Tobin with the SoV "army" banners, and the BK with Elincia's banner.  It is not at all unreasonable to assume that upon seeing both Ayra and Arden in a similar spot, that they would both be given out as GHB/Tempest rewards.  Her being really strong is not an indicator of anything, considering they had just given out the BK, as well as Camus and Xander before that.  

As an aside, today an Ayra one-rounded my TA3 Hinoka from full health.  I didn't reposition her away because I simply assumed a full health blue unit with TA3 would be able to survive combat with a red unit, and my opponent didn't have refreshers or WoM.  That really boiled my bacon.  

[bottlegnomes]

Didn't care then and don't care now. I didn't pull for her, but that was solely because I was far more interested in Sigurd. I actually want both her and Eldigan, but every one of my orbs went to the Holy War banner, and by time that was over, the Halloween banner came up and that has a lot of interesting things going for it, too, so my orbs are going there now. Especially since all those others are staying around.

As for power creep, meh. She doesn't change anything, and from a completely functional point of view, she fills the same role as Lucina, just a little better. She's still a red, offensively oriented melee footie, and they aren't especially difficult to handle. From my experience, Sigurd is a lot more of an issue. He's a direct counter to three of the biggest meta units and more than able to handle himself against the remainder. Hell, I'd also actually say that Brave Roy is more difficult to handle in area, and he's not exactly Reinhardt/Brave Lyn level.

To be honest, I'm way more pissed that they've now introduced armored mages and that Arvis wasn't one. Not pissed that they introduced them, that Henry is one (I love Henry and he's a great choice), or that I don't necessarily get one for free because Arvis isn't, just specifically that Arvis wasn't one.

Edited November 5, 2017 by bottlegnomes

[NekoKnight]

9 hours ago, VincentASM said:

On a related note, I do think the Halloween banner was released rather unfairly, just days before Halloween starts, while other games tend to release them earlier. So a lot of people probably thought there wouldn't be one. (And of course, I had to burn all my Orbs on Performing Arts, ahaha.)

There is no way they would pass up Halloween for a special banner. I think it was on those players for not being patient.

2 hours ago, DLNarshen said:

I've noticed there's been at least a couple of folks in this thread wondering why so many people expected her to be free, and that they shouldn't have gotten their hopes up.  My counter to that is that why wouldn't they have expected her to be free?  Until Ayra, every single unit that's been introduced to the game without being immediately added to the summoning pool has eventually been given out for free either in a GHB or as a Tempest reward (Bruno and Veronica being the exceptions; it's hard to make any assumptions what's going to happen with them).  See: the initial wave of GHBs + Lloyd, Legion and Clarisse with the New Mystery banner, Clive and Tobin with the SoV "army" banners, and the BK with Elincia's banner.  It is not at all unreasonable to assume that upon seeing both Ayra and Arden in a similar spot, that they would both be given out as GHB/Tempest rewards.  Her being really strong is not an indicator of anything, considering they had just given out the BK, as well as Camus and Xander before that.  

This, pretty much.

A lot of people will say "You shouldn't assume", "FEH players were spoiled", "Gaccha games do this all the time so I wasn't surprised", but our expectations were in line with how IS managed new releases. We could never have imagined they would be so scummy after such a long streak of reasonable behavior. I think for many a player, the spell is broken and we won't trust IS to make player-friendly choices any more.

In regards to powercreep, I believe she is. She's not as oppressive as Sigurd/B Lyn, but she is still a reasonable threat that outclasses most sword units. She is kind of like Hector in that there are various units that counter her, but if you don't have a counter, you're dead. I'd really like to see this CYL powercreep phenomenon end.

[Ice Dragon]

10 hours ago, VincentASM said:

Ayra just appeared out of nowhere mere days after the main Holy War banner and there was basically no good reason for her to be separate from Holy War, considering it was a 3-man banner and she could've been the 4th. Not to mention, by then, most people probably burned their orbs hunting for Sigurd etc.

Ayra could not have been a fourth character on the World of Holy War banner without changing the bonus character line-up on the Tempest Trials because that would leave the Tempest Trials banner with only two characters in it. Assuming the Tempest Trials bonus characters were determined and fixed in stone beforehand, they were basically forced to release the new characters in this manner.

 

10 hours ago, VincentASM said:

On a related note, I do think the Halloween banner was released rather unfairly, just days before Halloween starts, while other games tend to release them earlier. So a lot of people probably thought there wouldn't be one. (And of course, I had to burn all my Orbs on Performing Arts, ahaha.)

I've made several posts on this matter. The Spring Festival banner was released such that the timing of the banner led to the units on the banner being Arena bonus heroes during Easter itself. After the Performing Arts banner was revealed to be what it was, it should have been pretty clear that the Halloween banner would launch only a few days before Halloween (and I was pretty vocal about it).

Also, FGO's Halloween 2017 event began on October 25 (most likely to not overlap too much with the new content release that occurred between it and the Halloween 2016 re-run earlier in the month), so it's not unheard of for a Halloween event to begin so late.

 

 

Personally, I really don't care about the matter and think people are making making too much of a fuss about it. That said, I'm also of the opinion that the current generation of young folks has been spoiled by the easy way of life that current technology affords them and am not particularly sympathetic of their first-world plights. The only cell phone I had growing up was the one my mom had from work. It had the old black LCD screen that you only see these days on calculators with a screen resolution of about 150×50 and was the most amazing thing in the world after my Game Boy Advance.

I feel like some old geezer yelling at the kids to get off my lawn, but kids don't play outside anymore.

[Johann]

7 hours ago, Okigen said:

I hope so. That will confirm FE4 remake!

Not a confirmation, strictly speaking, but to me it seems they want to increase awareness of the series' history, and gather concrete data about what players want. Characters like Sigurd and Ayra in heroes do both of those things, and it's analogous to (but arguably more concrete than) putting Roy in Smash Bros (including Melee before his game came out, and as DLC in the latest game).

Edited November 5, 2017 by Johann

[bethany81707]

As someone with a fairly solid investment in the character herself, regardless of her similarities to that Elena build (I still enjoyed her before that)... ew. I'm just imagining how I'd feel if this was a pegasus. I'm imagining how it would feel if this was one of the Big Four pegs. (Good thing they're all in the game now).

[Tsak]

I don't even think Ayra is really that bad now that i think about it. I honestly dislike the limited time special banners way more. Like halloween and the performing arts banners sort of piss me off. Because they add new class types that we can't get anywhere else. Like another OP red really doesn't bother, it was poor taste sure. But the stupid exclusive dancer casters/new armor archetypes and stuff bothers me. They aren't recurring, and even if they were, if we summon for them again in 1 year whose to say that they are even viable by then? BST and powercreep might just keep going up a ton and we won't even been using them anymore. idk i'd rather they rebirth/give us a way to buff pre-existing units in a way. SI only has so much to it. Once the next new OP waifu comes out (Ayra isn't a bad example) most of the class they're in gets invalidated. If they did it like dokkan battle does, where some characters that have lost their strength from powercreep overtime can sort of get back in the meta (like killer weapons being able to be upgraded to slaying weapons, or like some sort of promotion thing where we get limited master seals etc)

Edited November 5, 2017 by Tsak

[Erchamion]

The problem with Ayra is not that she wasn't free or that she is broken unit (which she is not), the problem is the CYL treatment for a unit that is not even that popular I mean not even Lucina and Roy got the same treatment as her. There was literally no reason for them to give her extra BST and a unique skill except to start the power creep (and make money from foolish players), look forward to obscure units with 2 unique skills and +10 BST.