So About Ike

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

12 hours ago, Mister IceTeaPeach said:

Since I see several character threads in this section around I'm asking why not making a general FE10 character discussion thread where you update this thread with a new character after a few days? It would save a lot of new threads and makes the overview for the visitors easier. It's what I did with in the the DB members.

There are a few reasons:

First, I didn't intend to do these until I started Soren and it got a great response.

Second, I don't want to do them all in one big thread because it limits interaction and discussion people can have about the characters they like/dislike. Doing it in separate threads allows people to really discuss as much as they want about any one character and not have to worry about the discussion moving on to the next and feeling like their conversation was shut down.

[SSbardock84]

Being the main character and a solid unit I definitely use him a lot. His story is awesome and he is awesome, I like him as a larger character compared to him being a little guy in Path of Radiance. I'd say in the past I remained pretty neutral to him when he's a Hero and because I liked the Dawn Brigade better (still do). But once he hits up that Vanguard form I like him 10x better. Really hope they get that version of him in Heroes. Ike is definitely one of the best units in the game and can easily knock his way through the end of the game on his own if needed. The only thing I wish is that I could use Urvan more with him, but there's really no need for it when he's better with Ragnell.

[Icelerate]

After thinking about it deeply, I'm now of the opinion that RD Ike is probably the worst protagonist in FE.

The problem with Ike being an ordinary mercenary is that for whatever reason, the writers decided to give the final bosses to Ike which doesn't make much sense because he lacks a connection with Ashnard, unlike Elincia. Unlike Micaiah, he has no connection with Ashera, so him getting the final boss kill is quite anticlimactic. What's worse is that the narrative credits Ike as the one to slay Ashnard and Ashera when in reality it was a team effort. He's basically a kill stealer and gets all the glory. What's worse is that the ending gives Ike all the credit for bringing peace to the world. I guess Elincia, Micaiah and Sanaki's efforts were moot. Even worse is that he just leaves Tellius so the ones keeping the peace are everyone else yet he's the sole person the writers decided to credit. If Ike were a real-life person, even he'd agree that he's getting way too much credit/praise. So the praise he gets for being "relatable" should be thrown out of the window when poor writing and design choices have to justify him stealing the spotlight from more compelling characters.

Speaking of spotlight, during RD endgame, the vast majority of the conversations are with Ike and Yune. Why aren't Kurthnaga, Sanaki and more importantly, MICAIAH, the Apostle and a far more interesting protagonist more involved in the conversations with Yune??? All three of them have a stronger connection towards the goddesses, more spiritually inclined, more intertwined with Tellius' history and lore compared to Ike. I loathe the term Mary Sue/Gary Stu but if there was ever a justification for using this term, Ike takes the cake.

 

From what I read on Kris, he gets hated on for stealing Marth's spotlight. But from my understanding (haven't played/watched FE12) Kris is a lot less offensive compared to Ike because he doesn't take the spotlight in the endgame and Marth is still the one credited for the successes. Now compare that to Ike who is hyped to be the second coming of Altina for crying out loud, which is ridiculous because she can dual wield both royal blades when Ike can not. He's also the second coming of Gawain which is understandable and nothing outlandish. Compare that to Micaiah who is just the second coming of Misaha or Elincia, who is just the second coming of King Ramon. Ike is already way too special for someone who is supposed to be this relatable commoner so once again, this whole praise by the fanbase of Ike being just this ordinary guy is bizarre.

 

Also, when Ike goes to war with Begnion, he doesn't even stop to think whether it's a good idea or not. Compare that to other FE lords who actually think about what they're doing is right or not. As a result, he suffers from zero character development due to lacking a meaningful character conflict and has a dead persona. To fix Ike's lack of character development and emotional struggles, the writers decided to characterize Ike as one-note meat lover who enjoys fighting and talking shit which gets repetitive and boring. 

 

What's worse is that other characters act totally out of character just to make Ike look good. Shinon is racist yet doesn't even complain to Ike about going to war on the same side as the laguz. Soren also dislikes the laguz and knows of Begnion's might yet doesn't criticize Ike for participating in a war where the odds of success are low. Titania weakly suggests that it might not be a good idea because of the medallion but then this isn't ever brought up again until it is too late. Contrast this with Soren and Shinon in PoR or Sothe constantly criticizing Micaiah.

 

Speaking of making characters act out of character just to make him look better in comparison, he makes Micaiah look like a weak character in the endgame where Micaiah suggests she wants to abandon Daein but Ike has to reassure her. She had already gotten used to the fact that she'll be with Daein no matter what regardless of whether she's a branded or painted as a villain so this is her acting totally out of character just to make Ike look better. 

 

Furthermore, characters who have no reason to join Ike's army join him. Brom, Nephenee and Heather join Ike with no hesitation. Brom looks like a hypocrite because, in part 2, he criticized the rebels for wanting to fan the flames of war and agrees with Elincia's ideals of peace which is why she chose not to intervene on the side of the laguz or Begnion. Heather hates men so why is she on Ike's side? Why can't pretty girl Micaiah recruit her when that would make more sense for Heather's character? 

 

Ike abandons Elincia 6 months prior to the events of RD just because he dislikes nobles which makes him a weak leader because he runs away from his responsibilities. What makes it worse is that the narrative actually spins this in a positive light by giving a bizarre explanation that Ike had to stay undercover to stop the uprising even though this doesn't make any sense. What's worse is that he's fed up with people so he abandons Tellius even though he promised Mist that he'll always be at her side and told Micaiah to go back to Daein as her people need her. How hypocritical. What the hell Ike.  

What makes this frustrating is that all the other plot-relevant characters are mostly well-written so why does Ike have to be the oddball when he's the MAIN CHARACTER? The fact he's the true main character is dumb anyway when he lacks plot relevance and character development compared to Micaiah who is far better written and interesting anyway. 

[a bear]

4 hours ago, Icelerate said:

The problem with Ike being an ordinary mercenary is that for whatever reason, the writers decided to give the final bosses to Ike which doesn't make much sense because he lacks a connection with Ashnard, unlike Elincia.

I always figured Ashnard's armor was mostly just so the final battle is more intense. Think about how many bosses -- final or otherwise -- are just tanks on a throne who politely wait for your team to slowly kill them. I forget when he starts charging your team, but it's supposed to be a turning point in a fight that obviously favors your team. Kinda like when the Black Knight shows up in Chapter 11.

Not gonna defend RD or RD Ike though, partially because I don't disagree with you and partially because I need to replay it to really develop my thoughts on it.

[Icelerate]

1 hour ago, a bear said:

I always figured Ashnard's armor was mostly just so the final battle is more intense. Think about how many bosses -- final or otherwise -- are just tanks on a throne who politely wait for your team to slowly kill them. I forget when he starts charging your team, but it's supposed to be a turning point in a fight that obviously favors your team. Kinda like when the Black Knight shows up in Chapter 11.

Not gonna defend RD or RD Ike though, partially because I don't disagree with you and partially because I need to replay it to really develop my thoughts on it.

I guess but the explanation is pretty bad when the Laguz royals or one of the dragons can inflict damage on him. Still, Elincia got shafted hard considering she has Amiti. 

I could provide evidence from the script to support my points if you want. 

[a bear]

Well the blessing doesn't have to be infallible. It's like a lock, you either use the key like Ike or you smash. Dragon breath is super powerful and Laguz kings are kings for a reason (also Giffca rules). Amiti and other weapons might be really nice, but I'm guessing you need the force of a truck that Beorc just don't reach.

Or not, I dunno. I'm okay with Ashnard being unwinnable for most characters 'cause I think he's a great villian and final bosses should be hard.