Paragons

[Arthur97]

On 11/17/2017 at 9:41 AM, omegaxis1 said:

Tiki inherited the title, but being Naga's blood and power, it cannot be denied that only Tiki's own power can be worthy of inheriting the title for that very reason. 

I think there would be a bump in power with the title as Tiki could not awaken Falchion without it and in her paralogue, she apparently goes to channel Naga's power. 

[omegaxis1]

7 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

I think there would be a bump in power with the title as Tiki could not awaken Falchion without it and in her paralogue, she apparently goes to channel Naga's power. 

Actually, based on what Tiki says, it seems more like the paralogue indicates that she has her power more or less sealed if it sounds like that.

Quote

Say'ri: This is Naga's Cradle. It is said the divine dragon once called this place home. Here, the Voice will enact a holy rite to commune with Naga and regain her power.

Quote

Say'ri: Pray be silent, milady. The Voice is currently performing the rite. In doing so, she will draw the divine dragon's power from the land unto herself.

Quote

Say'ri: You've taken in the power of the divine dragon?
Tiki: Some of it, yes. ...It's strange. This power had always isolated me. Many were the days I wept alone, cursing the charge placed before me...
Lucina: Lady Tiki...
Tiki: But now my power has a purpose, and the world needs it to avoid a ruinous future. And so I shall offer it freely. Allow me to join you.

So it seems almost like this could be the reason for Tiki not being as powerful. Likely the reason being is possibly to AVOID degeneration, hence why she even says that she took in only SOME of the power, rather than all. In other words, Tiki never drew her full latent power, but only some of it. 

[Arthur97]

6 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Actually, based on what Tiki says, it seems more like the paralogue indicates that she has her power more or less sealed if it sounds like that.

So it seems almost like this could be the reason for Tiki not being as powerful. Likely the reason being is possibly to AVOID degeneration, hence why she even says that she took in only SOME of the power, rather than all. In other words, Tiki never drew her full latent power, but only some of it. 

Well, she still lacks the ability to awaken Falchion since if she did, the Fire Emblem would be kind of pointless for them seeing as it seems to just awaken Naga and has nothing to do with Falchion.

Still, that does seem to present a good reason for why she doesn't go insane (though I thought that was the whole reason of assuming human-ish form yet Tiki was apparently still dangerous). I wouldn't mind seeing an Awakening prequel though that deals with stuff like this and what happened to the Fire Emblem to essentially reverse its polarity and caused the Falchion to lose its power.

[omegaxis1]

3 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Well, she still lacks the ability to awaken Falchion since if she did, the Fire Emblem would be kind of pointless for them seeing as it seems to just awaken Naga and has nothing to do with Falchion.

Still, that does seem to present a good reason for why she doesn't go insane (though I thought that was the whole reason of assuming human-ish form yet Tiki was apparently still dangerous). I wouldn't mind seeing an Awakening prequel though that deals with stuff like this and what happened to the Fire Emblem to essentially reverse its polarity and caused the Falchion to lose its power.

I think the very reason why she cannot Awaken Falchion by herself is because in her physical form, it would cause her mind to degenerate into madness. But when she takes a spiritual form, her mind is no longer in danger of degeneration, and thus she can use her full powers and thus take the role of Naga. 

My belief on why Falchion's power was sealed by the time of Awakening is because the Shield of Seal's powers to seal things was channeled into the Falchion. But after the shield was disassembled once more, the power of the seal on Falchion worked in reverse, thus making Falchion's own power reduce. The reason they needed to channel the sealing abilities is because Grima cannot be killed by Naga, so sealing him is the only thing that can be done. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

On 11/19/2017 at 1:53 PM, omegaxis1 said:

I think the very reason why she cannot Awaken Falchion by herself is because in her physical form, it would cause her mind to degenerate into madness. But when she takes a spiritual form, her mind is no longer in danger of degeneration, and thus she can use her full powers and thus take the role of Naga. 

My belief on why Falchion's power was sealed by the time of Awakening is because the Shield of Seal's powers to seal things was channeled into the Falchion. But after the shield was disassembled once more, the power of the seal on Falchion worked in reverse, thus making Falchion's own power reduce. The reason they needed to channel the sealing abilities is because Grima cannot be killed by Naga, so sealing him is the only thing that can be done. 

I'd attribute Tiki's inability to Awaken the Falchion to the fact she is optional to recruit and can be killed. This could easily be corrected via change of her Classic death quote to a retreat, but let us be honest, the writers of Awakening aren't the best. Besides shoving one too many arcs into Awakening, they get a failing grade in the world building department. And magical item "logic" is if not a part of world building, is rather close to it.

On that note, I don't think they say enough to infer with any certainty why the Falchion got sealed, and I find it a little illogical. And part of this is gameplay. The Aura and Excalibur having seals on them in FEs 1&3 makes sense in gameplay as more than just a personal thing (which works for things like Dire Thunder in T776 and Rolf's Bow in PoR) given their stats, and so does the seal on the Jugdrali Holy Weapons. The Awakening Falchion in gameplay though isn't that great, just a Wyrmslayer with more Might, a Concoction heal, 45 Might against Grima, and infinite uses. To be fair the Binding Blade is like the Falchion, but it has +5 Def/Res and 1-2 range on it. However, the BB also has being canonically stronger than the Divine Weapons that changed the climate behind it. The Awakening Falchion doesn't. And unlike the Master Sword of Zelda fame, it doesn't seal evil inside itself and thus justify itself being sealed.

The Fire Emblem in Awakening is also problematic as to why it got its Gemstones scattered. For anyone who has played 1/11 and 3/12, they know how powerful the Orbs/Spheres/Gemstones are. The Darksphere negates all attacks save from the bearer of the Lightsphere, which also null enemy terrain bonuses (and effective bonuses in 3). The Starsphere gives stat/growth boosts and in SD gives infinite weapon durability. The Geosphere has an earthquake attack in SD, and gives critical to all with 3 spaces in NM (plus hit in FE3). The Lifesphere gives 20HP per turn in NM, and restores all in FE3. On top of the Fire Emblem itself magically being able to open any chest (but not doors- what gives?).

Awakening doesn't show any of this, even if the gemstones' powers remain. Which is problematic for the Fire Emblem in Awakening since many haven't played 1/3/11/12.

It does seal Grima- oh wait Grima breaks the seal without needing the Fire Emblem! Which wouldn't be such a problem were it not for Validar trying to steal it right beforehand, making the players think that it was absolutely needed. All the Fire Emblem does is Awaken a Falchion lackluster in gameplay power appearances, with no good reason why it was sealed, on top of being locked to the Exalted lineage even after being Awakened, and serve as a communication device to talk to/summon Naga. Gotoh could do easily communicate from afar in SD as he did when telepathically messaging Marth in Khadein from Macedon. Surely there would be an easier way to chat with this loving divine dragon deity who wouldn't give their power to the unwise/evil. Hence if that was the threat posed by having all the Gemstones on the Fire Emblem was summoning Naga, then the people who scattered the Gemstones were stupid.

 

But this is enough of a tangent from the topic title. Other than paragons being the bearers of the Archanean Fire Emblem. The bearer of the Jugdrali Fire Emblem is no paragon though. The Elibe bearer is a paragon. SS has no real single bearer of its Fire Emblems, Ephraim, Eirika, and Lyon are all contenders. Tellius doesn't have a single bearer either, though the Hero of the Blue Flames is kinda maybe paragon-ish? The original possessor of the Telliusian Fire Emblem was a paragon you could say, until they became tragic that is. Paragons must not let their melancholy get to them, it ruins their image. The Fates bearer is a paragon- to five year olds, except they know "stranger danger!" at least.

[omegaxis1]

Nice one. Now allow me to offer some counterarguments.

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'd attribute Tiki's inability to Awaken the Falchion to the fact she is optional to recruit and can be killed. This could easily be corrected via change of her Classic death quote to a retreat, but let us be honest, the writers of Awakening aren't the best. Besides shoving one too many arcs into Awakening, they get a failing grade in the world building department. And magical item "logic" is if not a part of world building, is rather close to it.

One thing is that Tiki never performs the Awakening in the main story, but in Future Past 3, when we see her in spiritual form, she immediately takes the role of Naga and performs the Awakening with the completed Fire Emblem. This already proves that Tiki's powers rivals Naga's own in Future Past 3, which in turn also means that the main Tiki in Awakening is potentially as powerful. And the dialogue in her paralogue once again implies that she didn't unlock all her powers, just some of it. 

I don't deny Awakening has an average story at best, but the main point of Awakening was never to be a huge story with deep meaning. It was believed to be the last game of the franchise, so they crammed as many references as they could into the game as possible. That's what Awakening's point was. To have every player experience all the stuff to remind them of the past Fire Emblem games as an homage to show the writer's love and appreciation. If they REALLY wanted to make the game be a huge story role with deep meaning, they could have done that, but that wasn't the send off they wanted Fire Emblem to be, hence why it was mostly a happy ending for everyone. Otherwise there'd have been a lot more deaths that stayed dead.

6 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

On that note, I don't think they say enough to infer with any certainty why the Falchion got sealed, and I find it a little illogical. And part of this is gameplay. The Aura and Excalibur having seals on them in FEs 1&3 makes sense in gameplay as more than just a personal thing (which works for things like Dire Thunder in T776 and Rolf's Bow in PoR) given their stats, and so does the seal on the Jugdrali Holy Weapons. The Awakening Falchion in gameplay though isn't that great, just a Wyrmslayer with more Might, a Concoction heal, 45 Might against Grima, and infinite uses. To be fair the Binding Blade is like the Falchion, but it has +5 Def/Res and 1-2 range on it. However, the BB also has being canonically stronger than the Divine Weapons that changed the climate behind it. The Awakening Falchion doesn't. And unlike the Master Sword of Zelda fame, it doesn't seal evil inside itself and thus justify itself being sealed.

Not quite. For one thing, though the Binding Blade is said to be stronger than the Legendary Weapons, I wanna point out that the climate change only happened because all the legendary weapons clashed against the immense magical power of dragons, which the two immeasurable clash of power caused an immense chain reaction that caused the Eternal Winter, but the legendary weapons themselves were not the cause of the climate change.

Furthermore, the seal I referred to is different. The power of Falchion was sealed because the power of the Shield of Seals was channeled into Falchion to stop Grima, but when the shield was taken apart, it also affected Falchion at that point then. Falchion on its own is already considered the ultimate godslayer by Mila. So at best, we can assume that Falchion's full power rivals that of the Binding Blade. The Binding Blade was just made more broken in the game mechanic. 

12 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The Fire Emblem in Awakening is also problematic as to why it got its Gemstones scattered. For anyone who has played 1/11 and 3/12, they know how powerful the Orbs/Spheres/Gemstones are. The Darksphere negates all attacks save from the bearer of the Lightsphere, which also null enemy terrain bonuses (and effective bonuses in 3). The Starsphere gives stat/growth boosts and in SD gives infinite weapon durability. The Geosphere has an earthquake attack in SD, and gives critical to all with 3 spaces in NM (plus hit in FE3). The Lifesphere gives 20HP per turn in NM, and restores all in FE3. On top of the Fire Emblem itself magically being able to open any chest (but not doors- what gives?).

Awakening doesn't show any of this, even if the gemstones' powers remain. Which is problematic for the Fire Emblem in Awakening since many haven't played 1/3/11/12.

I actually have a theory that storywise, anyone with the completed Shield of Seals essentially has the power of a demi-god. Reason being is that if you add each Gemstone, we know they each contain great power. Turn the gameplay mechanic slightly into the story-wise mechanic, and one gemstone heals wounds (Lifesphere/Gules), another draws one's inner strength (Starsphere/Azure), one seems to possess terraformation (Geosphere/Vert), one negates all forms of attacks and seals souls (Darksphere/Sable), and others nullify terrain effects and dark abilities (Lightsphere/Argent). In that regard, combine them all together into the Fire Emblem, you get all those powers, including the ability to seal so many Earth Dragons and later on a giant dragon called the Fell Dragon Grima away. 

Is it any wonder why there was a Schism that demanded the Fire Emblem be broken apart of the Gemstones? A nation holding that much power would obviously have the power to utterly wipe out other nations with it. Gameplaywise its too broken, so of course there wouldn't be that much of a change, but storywise, the human using it would become godly powerful.

17 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

It does seal Grima- oh wait Grima breaks the seal without needing the Fire Emblem! Which wouldn't be such a problem were it not for Validar trying to steal it right beforehand, making the players think that it was absolutely needed. All the Fire Emblem does is Awaken a Falchion lackluster in gameplay power appearances, with no good reason why it was sealed, on top of being locked to the Exalted lineage even after being Awakened, and serve as a communication device to talk to/summon Naga. Gotoh could do easily communicate from afar in SD as he did when telepathically messaging Marth in Khadein from Macedon. Surely there would be an easier way to chat with this loving divine dragon deity who wouldn't give their power to the unwise/evil. Hence if that was the threat posed by having all the Gemstones on the Fire Emblem was summoning Naga, then the people who scattered the Gemstones were stupid.

One thing on that regard is that the ONLY reason Grima was still revived was because Future Grima was there to revive Grima. Otherwise, the ritual did need the Fire Emblem to unlock the seal. However, there are other issues with Naga saying that Grima would awaken 1000 years later after being sealed, meaning that there are some lore that is obviously missing, alongside the need for a vessel. If Echoes can give any kind of implication, its that Grima's spirit is not fully bound to the bloodline, as in even if all his bloodline is killed, he can restart it another way. This is because even though Grima's body was destroyed, it was said his spirit lived on. That might be why Naga says that Grima has to be sealed, as killing him can only be done by Grima himself, and the only reason that ever worked is because Future Grima's own hubris was his undoing, as he didn't realize his past self would try to kill him. 

[Arthur97]

23 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'd attribute Tiki's inability to Awaken the Falchion to the fact she is optional to recruit and can be killed. This could easily be corrected via change of her Classic death quote to a retreat, but let us be honest, the writers of Awakening aren't the best. Besides shoving one too many arcs into Awakening, they get a failing grade in the world building department. And magical item "logic" is if not a part of world building, is rather close to it.

Okay, you can not like the plot, but to say the writers couldn't even change a single line is insulting. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

Okay, you can not like the plot, but to say the writers couldn't even change a single line is insulting. 

Well tweaking that one line would make it possible for Tiki to show up other times in the plot. And again, it isn't surprising they made that mistake. I wasn't aiming to be that harsh. To be fair, even my beloved Tellius master of world building has its hiccups- Rafiel's ending up in the Desert of Death is one example. And the Blood Pact is a badly handled magical item because its logic is never fully explained. 

Everything from "Besides" onwards was something of a pivot to my second point on the Falchion and Fire Emblem.

 

5 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

One thing is that Tiki never performs the Awakening in the main story, but in Future Past 3, when we see her in spiritual form, she immediately takes the role of Naga and performs the Awakening with the completed Fire Emblem. This already proves that Tiki's powers rivals Naga's own in Future Past 3, which in turn also means that the main Tiki in Awakening is potentially as powerful. And the dialogue in her paralogue once again implies that she didn't unlock all her powers, just some of it. 

I don't deny Awakening has an average story at best, but the main point of Awakening was never to be a huge story with deep meaning. It was believed to be the last game of the franchise, so they crammed as many references as they could into the game as possible. That's what Awakening's point was. To have every player experience all the stuff to remind them of the past Fire Emblem games as an homage to show the writer's love and appreciation. If they REALLY wanted to make the game be a huge story role with deep meaning, they could have done that, but that wasn't the send off they wanted Fire Emblem to be, hence why it was mostly a happy ending for everyone. Otherwise there'd have been a lot more deaths that stayed dead.

I wasn't doubting Tiki could Awaken the Falchion, only saying why she couldn't in the main game. Death makes doing things difficult.

Also, I do forgive Awakening on grounds of being "a going out of sale quite possibly" tribute for a lot of its mistakes. Forgiven issues are still issues on the record however, even if one has moved past them. 

And the Gangrel arc is good and reminds me of PoR a little with Gangrel bearing the epithet of Mad King like Ashnard- albeit two very different "Mads". If the game had axed Valm (which got in for Gaiden referencing), it would have easily been possible to interweave Gangrel's earthly ambitions with the Grimleal in the background scheming supernatural plans.

The Valm arc had epic scale, but it just did itself and the rest of Awakening a disservice by existing in the game instead of being its own thing, since it had very limited time and focus available for itself, and in turn limited the same of Gangrel and Grimleal. RD had a similar issue where Part 1 could be its own thing, Part 2 its own thing, and Parts 3 and 4 yet another. 

 

5 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Not quite. For one thing, though the Binding Blade is said to be stronger than the Legendary Weapons, I wanna point out that the climate change only happened because all the legendary weapons clashed against the immense magical power of dragons, which the two immeasurable clash of power caused an immense chain reaction that caused the Eternal Winter, but the legendary weapons themselves were not the cause of the climate change.

Furthermore, the seal I referred to is different. The power of Falchion was sealed because the power of the Shield of Seals was channeled into Falchion to stop Grima, but when the shield was taken apart, it also affected Falchion at that point then. Falchion on its own is already considered the ultimate godslayer by Mila. So at best, we can assume that Falchion's full power rivals that of the Binding Blade. The Binding Blade was just made more broken in the game mechanic. 

Reread the relevant script you're correct on the Divine Weapons being one of two necessary components to causing the Ending Winter, the other the power of the dragons. So I stand corrected.

As for your idea of the why the Falchion was sealed, it doesn't sound bad, a sword that seals isn't odd. Likewise having the sealing power and potency of that weapon affected by something else is believable. I'd just like ingame text to back it up. If none exists, unfortunately it cannot be taken as truth whatsoever, if some bits of evidence exist, it can be considered an educated guess.

My gameplay critique of the Falchion admittedly stems partly from my wish that the Exalted Falchion was an Elixir heal instead of 20 HP, since the weaker Parallel Falchion insulting heals just as strongly, and that's a minor annoyance to me. They should have brought back the FE1 all non-Manakete range 1 attack negation property.

5 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

One thing on that regard is that the ONLY reason Grima was still revived was because Future Grima was there to revive Grima. Otherwise, the ritual did need the Fire Emblem to unlock the seal. However, there are other issues with Naga saying that Grima would awaken 1000 years later after being sealed, meaning that there are some lore that is obviously missing, alongside the need for a vessel. If Echoes can give any kind of implication, its that Grima's spirit is not fully bound to the bloodline, as in even if all his bloodline is killed, he can restart it another way. This is because even though Grima's body was destroyed, it was said his spirit lived on. That might be why Naga says that Grima has to be sealed, as killing him can only be done by Grima himself, and the only reason that ever worked is because Future Grima's own hubris was his undoing, as he didn't realize his past self would try to kill him. 

So the seal on Grima didn't hold because Naga never expected a dimension/time traveling awaked Grima with part of their power would attempt to break the seal from the outside?

Sounds perfectly reasonable (I just wish it was explicitly stated in as much as a "I don't need the Fire Emblem, my mere presence in this world undermines the seal" line from Grobin). Naga isn't omnipotent and all-knowing. Unless you're one of those people who thinks Naga let Grima follow Lucina back in time so as to engineer a scenario where Grima could kill themselves permanently.

I'd guess Grima has their soul, their power, and their body. The body is the bloodline that carries the soul in the most optimal way, but the soul can be transmigrated to create a new bloodline in another body. The power is what gets sealed away, and is necessary for bringing the soul and body of Grima to a full blossoming of Fell Dragon godliness. It's a little like what happened to Dracula post-1999 in Castlevania. His power in the form of his castle got sealed in an eclipse, but his soul and traces of his power survived unsealed. 

5 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

I actually have a theory that storywise, anyone with the completed Shield of Seals essentially has the power of a demi-god. Reason being is that if you add each Gemstone, we know they each contain great power. Turn the gameplay mechanic slightly into the story-wise mechanic, and one gemstone heals wounds (Lifesphere/Gules), another draws one's inner strength (Starsphere/Azure), one seems to possess terraformation (Geosphere/Vert), one negates all forms of attacks and seals souls (Darksphere/Sable), and others nullify terrain effects and dark abilities (Lightsphere/Argent). In that regard, combine them all together into the Fire Emblem, you get all those powers, including the ability to seal so many Earth Dragons and later on a giant dragon called the Fell Dragon Grima away. 

The next time Mystery of the Emblem gets remade, I want Marth to get all the FE1 and FE3 Sphere effects, except the Darksphere is nerfed and doesn't corrupt Marth's soul. It isn't like Marth gets the Shield of Seals for that long. Who care if he's a little broken? 

By the way, this is purely my headcanon without real evidence to back it, but I like to think that each of the Spheres represents a different aspect of FE magic. The Orbs of Light and Dark represent Light and Dark Magic obviously. The Geosphere represents all forms of Anima, which is nature-based. The Lifesphere represents the healing side of Staffs. The Starsphere? I'd say it represents the non-healing powers of Staffs, like Ward/Barrier, Warp, and Hammerne.

5 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Is it any wonder why there was a Schism that demanded the Fire Emblem be broken apart of the Gemstones? A nation holding that much power would obviously have the power to utterly wipe out other nations with it. Gameplaywise its too broken, so of course there wouldn't be that much of a change, but storywise, the human using it would become godly powerful.

 I can imagine it now...

Spoiler

Servant: "King Insignia, the Symbol Empire has begun the battle! We're greatly outnumbered!"

King Insignia: "Numbers matter not. The Fire Emblem and the Gemstones which adorn it shall guide us to victory. Stars watching from the heavens about, by the crest I bear grant us thy strength!" *King Insignia's soldiers suddenly charge forward with the strength of ten men each*

Servant: "Our troops have fallen into a trap Your Majesty! The enemy ambushed them with a thick miasma, they're blinded and can't see anything. They're killing each other in the confusion!"

King Insignia: "Light that radiates from this golden seal, shine truth upon my enemy and dispel their sorcery!" *A bright flash of light in the skies above dispels the miasma*

Servant: "I'm afraid the mist has done its damage my lord, half our men are crippled. They are certain to die unless we withdraw!"

King Insignia: "Mark of champions and wellspring of vitality, breathe the life into my warriors!" *Suddenly all injuries on King Insignia's troops are magically healed*

Servant: "Get down my liege! The enemy is raining arrows and meteors upon our position! Arrgh!"

King Insignia: "Brand of the elements pure, let darkness absolute shield me!" *A barrier of shadows deflects all arrows and siege magic intended at King Insignia and his nearby retainers*

King Insignia: "Lo my nemesis brings reinforcements with which to crush my forces. This has gone on long enough. Emblem of Fire! Open the maws of the earth and let fall the legions into its bowels. And of those in the air above, with all thy facets' powers as one, shackle their wings to the abyss!"

 

[Arthur97]

7 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well tweaking that one line would make it possible for Tiki to show up other times in the plot. And again, it isn't surprising they made that mistake. I wasn't aiming to be that harsh. To be fair, even my beloved Tellius master of world building has its hiccups- Rafiel's ending up in the Desert of Death is one example. And the Blood Pact is a badly handled magical item because its logic is never fully explained. 

Everything from "Besides" onwards was something of a pivot to my second point on the Falchion and Fire Emblem.

To be fair, there were already a fair amount of retreaters (Lissa, Frederick, Sumia, Lucina, even Virion I think not to mention two game over characters). Maybe they just didn't want to add another.

[omegaxis1]

13 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I wasn't doubting Tiki could Awaken the Falchion, only saying why she couldn't in the main game. Death makes doing things difficult.

Also, I do forgive Awakening on grounds of being "a going out of sale quite possibly" tribute for a lot of its mistakes. Forgiven issues are still issues on the record however, even if one has moved past them. 

And the Gangrel arc is good and reminds me of PoR a little with Gangrel bearing the epithet of Mad King like Ashnard- albeit two very different "Mads". If the game had axed Valm (which got in for Gaiden referencing), it would have easily been possible to interweave Gangrel's earthly ambitions with the Grimleal in the background scheming supernatural plans.

The Valm arc had epic scale, but it just did itself and the rest of Awakening a disservice by existing in the game instead of being its own thing, since it had very limited time and focus available for itself, and in turn limited the same of Gangrel and Grimleal. RD had a similar issue where Part 1 could be its own thing, Part 2 its own thing, and Parts 3 and 4 yet another. 

Except like I said, in physical form, its possible that Tiki trying to go with the Awakening herself would cause her to degenerate. Spiritual form circumvents that.

Had Awakening been the last game, it would have been a nice homage. But since the series managed to get back up because of it, now all the inconsistencies of Awakening comes to light. You know, alongside the entire issue of Grima, there was also the taguel. The taguel is clearly just a laguz reference, but Panne and by extension her son, are pretty much the biggest plotholes in the game. They never existed in games before and Tellius is not the same universe as Archanea. Echoes could have given the opportunity to let the taguel exist, but nope. Least Echoes did show how Grima came into being. 

The Valm arc was meant to be a reference to Valentia, hence why it was there. Only thing they couldn't bring was Jugdral, but instead they made Grima and his cult act as the reference, as Robin and Julius are pretty much the same. I agree that Awakening could very well have been 3 games in itself. But since it was meant to be just a single game, they crammed as much as they could. It's understandable. 

13 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Reread the relevant script you're correct on the Divine Weapons being one of two necessary components to causing the Ending Winter, the other the power of the dragons. So I stand corrected.

As for your idea of the why the Falchion was sealed, it doesn't sound bad, a sword that seals isn't odd. Likewise having the sealing power and potency of that weapon affected by something else is believable. I'd just like ingame text to back it up. If none exists, unfortunately it cannot be taken as truth whatsoever, if some bits of evidence exist, it can be considered an educated guess.

My gameplay critique of the Falchion admittedly stems partly from my wish that the Exalted Falchion was an Elixir heal instead of 20 HP, since the weaker Parallel Falchion insulting heals just as strongly, and that's a minor annoyance to me. They should have brought back the FE1 all non-Manakete range 1 attack negation property.

Mhm. Since the legendary weapons are meant to kill dragons, they could be considered the dragon's opposite. So them clashing can be considered a clash of matter against antimatter, and those two meet would result in catastrophic consequences. Which happened in the form of the Eternal Winter. Though this helped the humans more. 

I cannot deny that. All I'm saying there is just theories. The lores and answers would really in fact lie in the First Exalt's time. As that is the point when everything happened for Awakening. 

13 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

So the seal on Grima didn't hold because Naga never expected a dimension/time traveling awaked Grima with part of their power would attempt to break the seal from the outside?

Sounds perfectly reasonable (I just wish it was explicitly stated in as much as a "I don't need the Fire Emblem, my mere presence in this world undermines the seal" line from Grobin). Naga isn't omnipotent and all-knowing. Unless you're one of those people who thinks Naga let Grima follow Lucina back in time so as to engineer a scenario where Grima could kill themselves permanently.

I'd guess Grima has their soul, their power, and their body. The body is the bloodline that carries the soul in the most optimal way, but the soul can be transmigrated to create a new bloodline in another body. The power is what gets sealed away, and is necessary for bringing the soul and body of Grima to a full blossoming of Fell Dragon godliness. It's a little like what happened to Dracula post-1999 in Castlevania. His power in the form of his castle got sealed in an eclipse, but his soul and traces of his power survived unsealed. 

Time travel in itself is a taboo. In fact, messing with time could destroy the fabric of reality. I think even Grima would avoid messing with it. However, Grima wasn't aware on how time travel works, as he thought it worked linear, rather than multiverse theory. Hence why Grima followed back in time. I doubt Naga would have known this. But you know, regardless whether she did or didn't, I feel there's nothing genuinely wrong with it. Why? Cause regardless, Grima won and the world was going to be destroyed and more to come.

You calling Grima!Robin Grobin makes me laugh, cause that makes me think of how Aizen in Bleach (S) Abridged by BlazingAzureCrow also goes by the name Josh Grobin. XD

Oh, that's actually perfect. I was trying to figure out how it could be explained, but you explained it as simple as that. XD

13 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The next time Mystery of the Emblem gets remade, I want Marth to get all the FE1 and FE3 Sphere effects, except the Darksphere is nerfed and doesn't corrupt Marth's soul. It isn't like Marth gets the Shield of Seals for that long. Who care if he's a little broken? 

By the way, this is purely my headcanon without real evidence to back it, but I like to think that each of the Spheres represents a different aspect of FE magic. The Orbs of Light and Dark represent Light and Dark Magic obviously. The Geosphere represents all forms of Anima, which is nature-based. The Lifesphere represents the healing side of Staffs. The Starsphere? I'd say it represents the non-healing powers of Staffs, like Ward/Barrier, Warp, and Hammerne.

I get why the Darksphere would get nerfed. For the negation of all abilities, your own soul has to be entrapped in the item. The Lightsphere being in the Fire Emblem allows one to negate that one, but still draw on the powers enough. 

That's a way of going at it, true. 

13 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

 I can imagine it now...

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Servant: "King Insignia, the Symbol Empire has begun the battle! We're greatly outnumbered!"

King Insignia: "Numbers matter not. The Fire Emblem and the Gemstones which adorn it shall guide us to victory. Stars watching from the heavens about, by the crest I bear grant us thy strength!" *King Insignia's soldiers suddenly charge forward with the strength of ten men each*

Servant: "Our troops have fallen into a trap Your Majesty! The enemy ambushed them with a thick miasma, they're blinded and can't see anything. They're killing each other in the confusion!"

King Insignia: "Light that radiates from this golden seal, shine truth upon my enemy and dispel their sorcery!" *A bright flash of light in the skies above dispels the miasma*

Servant: "I'm afraid the mist has done its damage my lord, half our men are crippled. They are certain to die unless we withdraw!"

King Insignia: "Mark of champions and wellspring of vitality, breathe the life into my warriors!" *Suddenly all injuries on King Insignia's troops are magically healed*

Servant: "Get down my liege! The enemy is raining arrows and meteors upon our position! Arrgh!"

King Insignia: "Brand of the elements pure, let darkness absolute shield me!" *A barrier of shadows deflects all arrows and siege magic intended at King Insignia and his nearby retainers*

King Insignia: "Lo my nemesis brings reinforcements with which to crush my forces. This has gone on long enough. Emblem of Fire! Open the maws of the earth and let fall the legions into its bowels. And of those in the air above, with all thy facets' powers as one, shackle their wings to the abyss!"

 

Yeah, I can pretty much see it as that happening. Why else would Gangrel demand the Fire Emblem if he has neither Falchion nor Exalted bloodline for it? Well, for Validar's case, it can unseal Grima, but for Gangrel and Plegia, tap into that power with some magic, and you pretty much have the most powerful weapon in existence. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by omegaxis1