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Dismounting Opinions 2: Electric Boogaloo

Opinions on the Dismount feature used in FE3/5  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you like Dismount

    • Yes
    • No
    • No Opinion
    • The Concept
    • I prefer FE10's Movement decrease indoors
  2. 2. Would you like to see it attempted in a modern FE?



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It was kind of a thing in FE4 but just for Seilph but eh. 

Ok so the gist of Dismount in FE3 and FE5 is that mounted units could not ride indoors and were forced to dismount, they took some stat penalties and were forced to use Swords or (if they were mounted bow users) Bows. 

in FE3 this method worked better imo because weapon rank was a stat and not divided between different weapons, thus not being a massive crippling blow to mounts, although the final chapters in both Book 1 & 2 can severely weaken your party as a good chunk of the best units in the games ARE mounted, (more so in Book 2, as in Book 1 a number of the best fighters are your Heroes). 

in FE5, you had individual ranks which could really hurt units like Finn who could only use swords dismounted so the only way he could get this rank up would be to grind dismounted, and could call some balance into play such as Dean having amazing Sword & Lance ranks both. 

Something else to note is that FE3/5 only had caps (besides HP) at 20 so stat scaling would definitely be a factor if it were to ever come back.

Its one of my favorite oldschool FE mechanics and I feel if it were refined properly it could be used in the modern age as well, or heck even in an "echoes" styled game they could probably try it there too.

What are your thoughts on dismount?

Edited by Jedi

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I think they aren't doing it anymore because, outside of additional work related to more animations, stats, etc, it removes the unit's weakness tied to their mount by dismounting, and in the newest games bar SoV, they've been pretty prominent (at least I feel so, especially after Conquest's maps revolved all around fliers).

I'd like it to come back though. Personally I enjoy to move a flier around and not be restricted by a shitty archer placed right in their way (you don't always have the right unit to kill the shitty archer by your flier' side). Also horses indoor look kind of silly.

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1 minute ago, CrimeanRoyalKnight said:

I think they aren't doing it anymore because, outside of additional work related to more animations, stats, etc, it removes the unit's weakness tied to their mount by dismounting, and in the newest games bar SoV, they've been pretty prominent (at least I feel so, especially after Conquest's maps revolved all around fliers).

Probably, but you never know what they might bring back out of the blue sometimes.

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I like the idea of it.

It makes sense when you look at it. I mean, how the hell would a pegasus or wyvern function indoors, they wouldn't. However, in my opinion, dismounting has never really been done well in any FE that featured it.

In FE3, because of it, you only had 4 lance users in Book 1 and 2 in Book 2 while indoors which ultimately made stuff like the Gradivus useless, especially since most maps near endgame are all indoors, that being when you get Gradivus, near endgame and all your lance users are armours. The only saving grace for dismounting was that you didn't have to keep two different weapon ranks in check, which is the main problem I had with Thracia.

And it that game you only had 2 lance users indoors as well, again, both being armours. One of which is extremely difficult to recruit. Also, again, having to keep 2 weapon ranks in check, when you can only use one while mounted and the other while dismounted was very frustrating.

I guess it was there in FE4, which ironically did it best since weapon ranks were fixed so there was no need to needlessly grind them and it was never forced n you XD.

TLDR; I like the idea of it and would not opposed to it returning, however it would really need to fixed since the titles that did have it, did not do it well.

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I personally never liked it. In FE3, it did work better because weapon rank didn't really exist but i just didn't like how your mounted units would become swordlocked (don't think there were any mounted bow users). Dismounting just took variety of your units by making most of them swordlocked and i didn't really like it.

I never got far enough in FE5 to really care.

As for would i like to see it return? Maybe???? I mean, i'd prefer it doesn't but if they make it work well, then i wouldn't be opposed to it. As long as it doesn't swordlock mounted units. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Armagon said:

i just didn't like how your mounted units would become swordlocked (don't think there were any mounted bow users).

Wolf and Sedger were playable in Book 1, so they were affected. Castor and Warren too if you bother to promote either of them.

As for my opinion, I always felt like it was only there to tell your cavalry to back off and it's telling it's never been in a title with a more prominent weapon triangle. One thing I do think would need to be done is not force swordlocking on the dismounted units, it's never something I liked about dismounting. Maybe have some fun shifting the weapon rank if, say, they have multiple to act as an adjustment to not being on the mount and it making things more difficult for the unit. An alternative could be to cut movement for horses, especially on stairs, though that doesn't mean much for fliers, does it?

Obviously keep the stat drop and it's a good concept and all. It's not worked out to be good for either title it's in imo.

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I want it back. It's the best attempt at balancing mounted units in the franchise.

If it came back, I'd want it done with a moderate stat debuff, but you keep your weapon ranks, more akin to FE3, though not just swordlocked. Am I supposed to believe Finn forgot how to wield a lance and now suddenly knows how to wield a sword because he got off his horse?

Edited by Slumber

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I really like it and want it back. Give mounted units Knight move indoors.

That said, I'd like weapons to be kept. IDK why everyone shifted to swords while unmounted, that makes no sense to me.

Edited by Nobody

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1 hour ago, Slumber said:

Am I supposed to believe Finn forgot how to wield a lance and now suddenly knows how to wield a sword because he got off his horse?

Wielding a lance whilst on horseback is different to wielding a lance as an infantryman.

Anyway, I'd prefer that dismounting stay in the trash bin where it belongs, and implement the -2 move penalty from Radiant Dawn instead.

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24 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Wielding a lance whilst on horseback is different to wielding a lance as an infantryman.

Anyway, I'd prefer that dismounting stay in the trash bin where it belongs, and implement the -2 move penalty from Radiant Dawn instead.

Right, but I'm sure using a lance on a horse is a lot more similar to using a lance on foot than using a sword on foot. 

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I'd say it was better implemented in FE3 than it was in Thracia, since you didn't need to keep tabs on two weapon ranks, one of which was only accessible while dismounted. But personally, I think it shouldn't come back.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

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I only base my opinion on watching LPs since I haven't personally played the games with dismounting, but I don't really like it in practice. It's a cool concept, and it makes sense, but it basically takes a rider and demotes them into any old myrmidon/archer/etc. for a chapter. To me having a variety of unit types on the field is much more exciting than fielding a bunch of foot swordies. If it does return then the characters should keep their weapon type and ranks when they dismount, though. I wouldn't mind it this way.

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I find some great juicy irony that in FE3 all dismounting really did is make your mounted unit even more dominant by giving them access to the best weapon type in the entire game

 

The same would happen to FE5 had they maintain same level of weapon rank. Finn is the only exception but had Finn have like B sword you would just give him Brave Sword and stop giving any fuck

 

 

Yeah as someone said before - Dismounting is actually a buff for Mounted unit. 

Also the fact that Dismount exists in FE4 because Kaga had a hard on for Leif is kinda funny since theres a rumor that Tactic stars exists because of Camus

Edited by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

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10 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

The same would happen to FE5 had they maintain same level of weapon rank. Finn is the only exception but had Finn have like B sword you would just give him Brave Sword and stop giving any fuck

No?

Dismounting gives stat debuffs. Pretty much across the board outside of Forrest Knights, who only lose one point of def and 3 movement. In a game where everything caps at 20, Finn losing 1 point of strength, 1 point of skill, 1 point of speed and 2 points of defense is pretty hefty until he caps those stats(At which point, the debuffs stop mattering). But for the early-to-mid game? Even if somebody like Brighton got to keep his axe off his horse, it'd be preferable to use somebody like Halvan or Orsin for indoor maps, since they wouldn't be missing stats they normally have.

But more on the movement, it causes mounted units to drag behind when unmounted at the end of the game. Every single mounted unit has 1% movement growth. And while most foot units only have 2-3%, that 2-3% does give a pretty good chance of actually gaining a point or two of movement if you get them to 20/20. Especially with Thracia's RNG. That 1% that mounted units get, however, is even worse than it appears. By the end of the game, your unmounted mounted units will likely still have only 6 movement if you didn't baby any of them with the Dain scroll. While even without the Dain, your normal foot units will probably have at least 7, or even at least 8 movement if their promotion gave them a point of move.

TL;DR, mounted units when they dismount get nerfed not just weapon-wise, but also stat-wise. And movement-wise, they fall behind with the armor units, and don't even have as much room to improve in that department as armor knights.

It most definitely isn't a "buff", and it wouldn't make them dominant in FE5 if they got to keep their weapon ranks. Case-in-point: Fergus, a unit with solid stats who doesn't lose any weapon rank when dismounting, and is part of the Free/Forrest Knight-line, who suffer the least penalties for dismounting when it comes to stats, is still just a pretty solid unit, but nothing gamebreaking like a normal infantry unit like Orsin.

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Dismounting was always an idea that I though sounded okay on paper, and worked just fine in practice, so its not at the top of my list of mechanics I like to see return.

That being said, I wouldn't mind if it came back, I just want the map design to take advantage of it more. I found having to choose between taking an infantry unit or a cavalier without their signature mobility made indoor maps more interesting to me when playing fe3. I also thought that being able to use pegasus knights in the range of archers at the cost of their signature flying ability was a solid trade-off and it made them much more versatile.

Just make sure that units that use this mechanic available to them can utilize all their weapons. Mystery of the Emblem got away with making said units sword locked because it didn't have a weapon triangle or individual weapon ranks. If this aspect was used today, it would add more annoyance than strategy to the mix.

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on one hand, i'm all for game mechanics that make in universe sense (how/why the hell would you fly a full grown Wyvern in doors?), but on the other hand archers shoot people through solid walls and it would likely cause some game play issues if they couldn't so who knows

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If they improve, I would like the implementation of it. The older games didn't implement it well, IMO, because characters that were good with lances would get screwed over and be swordlocked on foot. I think if it does return, they should keep their lances on foot and their animations should be the soldier animation. Maybe bring back Sword Cavs and Lance Cavs if putting their WTA class makes them a bit broken on foot. (Since most unpromoted foot units only have 1 weapon).

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