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BlueCavalier

What is it that People Love About FE5?

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1 minute ago, Slumber said:

I'd imagine most of these would be addressed in a remake. A good chunk of them were likely technical limitations/inexperience(Fog of war, unit repositioning, etc), a few of them were just eccentric design choices that didn't quite work out(Hit rates being 1-99%, fatigue being tied to HP), and some of them were just due to FE5 being around before these ideas would come into fruition(Base and episodic support conversations). 

But I agree with a lot of that. I think FE5 is an unpolished diamond. A second try to really work out the kinks, and I think FE5 would be recognized for more than its difficulty and being the game with Reinhardt. 

I wrote that but I actually do like the fog of war not revealing the map in some isolated cases. Okay well just in Chapter 4x (but you can't have it for just Chapter 4x, it'd need to be for all in door fog of war maps or something). The unique set up of Chapter 4x having such a tiny map and starting with the enemies being right beside you but hard to see gives it a really different feel to most maps in the series. It feels cramped and enclosed, more like a brawl or a scrap than an armed conflict. And I think not even being able to see the wall services that atmosphere.

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2 hours ago, Jotari said:

No Hit % on staves. That's an annoying feature that doesn't help anything.

I hear that its only an issue if your staffbots don't have good skill and when their skill is high enough, they can never miss. But I digress though. But on the other hand, enemies also suffer from this fate and it can be a BLESSING!

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

*Cyas and Ced are both recruitable. I don't see any good narrative or gameplay reason why you have to choose between one or the other.

Even then, Cyas is kinda crappy because his stats for some reason are toned down as soon as you get him. Not to mention that he doesn't have much going for him.

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

*A magic bow. Mainly so Ronan's particular niche is more usable.

Oh I would so love that to happen!

 

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Sequel of FE4, the story needs to be continued and read somehow, but as for gameplay, well. I suppose that you do have to think a lot more than any other FE game out there, and the fatigue system, as much as I hate it, forces you to expand on how you deploy and different kinds of tactics to use, tbh. Olwen abuse would make this game easy pz.

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35 minutes ago, Ramchops said:

Sequel of FE4, the story needs to be continued and read somehow, but as for gameplay, well. I suppose that you do have to think a lot more than any other FE game out there, and the fatigue system, as much as I hate it, forces you to expand on how you deploy and different kinds of tactics to use, tbh. Olwen abuse would make this game easy pz.

???

That's the first time I've ever heard this.

Without Dire Thunder or the Blessed Sword, Olwen's a pretty shoddy unit, and outclassed by many, many, many units in the game. With Dire Thunder and the Blessed Sword, she's a very good offensive unit, but her durability is abysmal, and she'll get torn to shreds if you try to "abuse" her. She's ultimately a solid-good unit, but certainly not a unit who will carry you through the game on her own.

Edited by Slumber

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12 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Without Dire Thunder, Olwen's a pretty shoddy unit, and outclassed by many, many, many units in the game. With Dire Thunder and the Blessed Sword, she's a very good offensive unit, but her durability is abysmal, and she'll get torn to shreds if you try to "abuse" her. She's certainly not a unit who will carry you through the game on her own.

I once heard some say Vantage+Dire Thunder Olwen nuked everything (plus Status staff immunity b/c high magic?).

Said argument was always punctured by Dire Thunder's kinda shoddy hit (70 + good Skill and Luck isn't good enough when most bosses pack some Authority and you're in a 1 RN system), guaranteed 12 AS loss, and Olwen's physical fragility. Meaning Olwen is quite possibly going to be doubled and ORKO'ed if DT misses even one hit, which is all too likely.

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On 11/18/2017 at 12:23 PM, Harvey said:

It somewhat makes a return in Fates although only specific classes can do that.

Correction: Only specific characters can do that (Niles in Conquest, and Orochi in Birthright), and neither of them are very good imo, which makes it practically meaningless.

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11 hours ago, Jotari said:

List I have hanging around on my computer for changes I'd make to Thracia.

*No Hit % on staves. That's an annoying feature that doesn't help anything.
*Double the weapon exp gain for mounted units when unmounted.
*Fog of war lets you see the landscape like in later games.
*Remove the minimum necessary units and inability to reposition units.
**In order to retain the spirit of Chapter 19 while also allowing repositioning, I'd add a chapter 18x where you control Dorias during his attack on Connacht. The units brought to this chapter are the ones on the run in chapter 19.
*More cutscenes with Blume. I get that he isn't meant to be Leif's major antagonist since the whole point of Leif's story is that it's bigger than him, but Blume still deserves to have more of a presence in the world than just that really brief scene he appears in.
*Leif gains Staves (and a new sprite!) upon promotion
*A Soldier ally who joins Leif during the Manster arc. We need to use Lances in doors and Soldiers are a nice class to have playable.
*Units have their own stamina stat complete with a growth rate instead of making it based on HP. Within the first 15 turns of a chapter, whenever a unit waits they gain 1 point of Stanima back. If they also did not move that turn they gain back 2. After turn 25 they start to lose stamina even when waiting.
*Those warp tiles, most noteable in 24x, can't remember if they're anywhere else, are visible if you have a thief within in three squares of them, or if you have a unit holding a captured enemy within 3 squares. I still want them to function as traps but having them completely invisible like that is way too cheap.
*Chapter 21 features appearances from Ishtar, the three mage sisters and Faval. Additionally Patty joins the army with Delmud and can recruit Faval. Having him there not only gels well with Holy War canon but also furthers the plot development of Leif feeling inferior because he lacks a holy weapon. This also allows a happy reunion between Briggid and her kids (or perhaps an ironic non reunion as neither recognizes the other) if you decide to save Eyvel.
*Cyas and Ced are both recruitable. I don't see any good narrative or gameplay reason why you have to choose between one or the other.
*A magic bow. Mainly so Ronan's particular niche is more usable.
*Supports and base conversations, because Ronan and Lifis fighting alongside one another needs to be explained.

Add "obtainable door keys where it counts" and "healing staves always hit" and I'd actually give the game a shot.  There's a difference between difficulty and bullshit, and Thracia has way too much of the latter.

Edited by eclipse

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10 hours ago, Harvey said:

I hear that its only an issue if your staffbots don't have good skill and when their skill is high enough, they can never miss. But I digress though. But on the other hand, enemies also suffer from this fate and it can be a BLESSING!

Even then, Cyas is kinda crappy because his stats for some reason are toned down as soon as you get him. Not to mention that he doesn't have much going for him.

Oh I would so love that to happen!

 

Okay status staves having a hit percentage does make sense and that's the way it is in most games (though actually, I think in Thracia status staves can't miss, it's an all or nothing if your magic is higher than their's case which just makes the healing stave missess even more inexcusable), but there's no excuse for healing staves having a miss chance, no matter how small. And it would very rarely be a blessing for enemies missing heals since enemies don't heal that often due to the player killing them in one or two rounds.

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

Add "obtainable door keys where it counts" and "healing staves always hit" and I'd actually give the game a shot.  There's a difference between difficulty and bullshit, and Thracia has way too much of the latter.

I did say that :p

Edited by Jotari

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7 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I did say that :p

Original post said "staves hit".  I have no issues with status staves being inaccurate.

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51 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Original post said "staves hit".  I have no issues with status staves being inaccurate.

Yeah, I should have been clearer with that (will edit on the computer for any hypotehtical future scenario where it's appropriate to randomly pull it out), but I absolutely did mean healing staves and barrier. In fact, as I mentioned in the same reply status staves don't have a miss chance in Thracia to my knowledge, being based entirely on magic. Which I'm actually fine with since it does allow you to perform counter strategies using holy water and barrier. Now status being infinite, that is something I would change because having someone become completely incapacitated due to sleep (or worse, berserk) because restore staves are so scarce is not fun.

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I only defeated FE5 once. I'll admit, I found some of the mechanics quite fun like capturing and fatigue. Yeah, I strangely found fatigue fun somehow. That's probably because I've always had a soft spot for the weaker/lesser used FE characters (I've literally used and promoted Elice in FE3/11 and Sophia in FE6 in more than half of my playthroughs of those games), and it helped encourage people to use them to an extent. Aside from what everyone else mentioned, I will throw in suggestions/criticisms that people haven't mentioned in this thread yet.

In particular, I found the combination of heavily relying on capturing for money at the start and not having a Marth convoy/Merlinus wagon equivalent to be an inconvenient combination, especially since accessing storage was impossible for a good chunk of chapters in the game.

Chapter 11 where you get locked in by 6 gates as a trap, have very limited access to Door Keys by that point, have to rely on Thieves with lockpicks to progress, and having Ballistae shooting at everyone (including your thieves with lockpicks who likely won't survive) trapped by the gates just seemed unfair on so many levels due to it being essentially all luck (even with using support bonuses). If I'm missing out on some sort of strategy for that chapter, please tell me, since if I ever have the patience to play FE5 and that chapter for a 2nd time, I don't want to rely on constant savestate saving and loading again.

Also, I'm not sure what the A route is like (I planned on saving the A route for my 2nd runthrough, since that'll be my "good" file), but 17B really overdid it with the ballistae. Sure, they give you ways to make it easier like paying 20,000 G to open the gate (though most players won't have that much money) and having NPC soldiers act as decoys (though even one of them dying makes you lose out on a Knight's Crest), but for the perfectionist in me, both of those aren't viable options. Maybe it's just me having problems with that level since I haven't heard anyone else complain about that chapter, but I can't help but feel like excessive ballistae in a chapter just makes it too frustrating and luck-based.

All that aside, I'm still glad I played and completed FE5 and I really did enjoy some of the more unique mechanics and ideas. But I don't think it's an FE game I'd complete 5 or more times (on that note, I've completed FE3, FE6, FE7, FE8, and FE11 5 or more times).

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I'm pretty sure all staff accuracy, included status staff accuracy, are calculated the same way; base 60 plus Skill times four. I mean, once you hit 10 skill even status staves never miss. I'm pretty sure status staves don't roll for evasion whatsoever.

I dunno, on the one hand it'd probably be for the best if a hypothetical remake limited staff range, reduced status staff accuracy (while making healing/buffing staves auto-hit), and make status ailments wear off over time. The player couldn't cheese through the later half AND overall it'd be less frustrating. On the other hand, I think that'd be taking something away from the game. 

Also in said hypothetical remake I hope Veld stays pathetic, because it's endlessly funny.

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For me, it's the fact that the game is pretty much broken/op in almost every regard which actually makes it kind of "balanced" in a very strange way. There are so many ways to cheese chapters in an utterly ridiculous fashion (warp is the most well-known but certainly not the only way) - but they are just about as many ways the enemy can cheese you so the game remains challenging.

I think, FE5 is like the only game in the series that basically wants you to warp skip certain chapters (chapter 12x in particular).

The game, however, is definitely not friendly towards newer or blind players and this is why it's often called "nintendo-hard" - a term, that - in my opinion - describes the game quite fittingly. On the other hand, there's so much you can do when you know a little bit more about how the game works, which makes ist a very interesting game for more experienced players.

Also, I like teaching Nanna wrath and watching her curbstomp entire armys.

Edited by Caedes

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Some stuff like 99/1 hit floor/ceiling and healing staves missing are super dumb, but the game subtly pushes you to clear certain chapters in a concise manner, and also having a lot of possible resources at your disposal via capturing and stealing, especially for staves, make the game feel more wide open than just about every other FE. Honestly, Thracia stealing is something I wish more FE games had, as well as more unique staves like the Thief staff, which is my favorite weapon in FE history to date.

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i like it for the diverse objectives, the capture system, the difficulty, the story, and the feeling that you're actually at a disadvantage makes it much more satisfying to actually complete the maps. i wouldn't want this in every fire emblem game but i like it for this one and think it works really well for this particular game. the difficulty also isn't just artificial difficulty created by giving enemies just absurd stats and skills either, it's actually difficulty that comes from actually having to strategize to beat the maps. this is a kind of small thing but i also really like the scrolls. feels like with scrolls you can use anyone if you're really committed to using that unit. the game has its flaws like the absurd amount of rng in the game but i think it more than makes up for them.

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On 11/20/2017 at 12:28 AM, Randoman said:

I only defeated FE5 once. I'll admit, I found some of the mechanics quite fun like capturing and fatigue. Yeah, I strangely found fatigue fun somehow. That's probably because I've always had a soft spot for the weaker/lesser used FE characters (I've literally used and promoted Elice in FE3/11 and Sophia in FE6 in more than half of my playthroughs of those games), and it helped encourage people to use them to an extent. Aside from what everyone else mentioned, I will throw in suggestions/criticisms that people haven't mentioned in this thread yet.

In particular, I found the combination of heavily relying on capturing for money at the start and not having a Marth convoy/Merlinus wagon equivalent to be an inconvenient combination, especially since accessing storage was impossible for a good chunk of chapters in the game.

Chapter 11 where you get locked in by 6 gates as a trap, have very limited access to Door Keys by that point, have to rely on Thieves with lockpicks to progress, and having Ballistae shooting at everyone (including your thieves with lockpicks who likely won't survive) trapped by the gates just seemed unfair on so many levels due to it being essentially all luck (even with using support bonuses). If I'm missing out on some sort of strategy for that chapter, please tell me, since if I ever have the patience to play FE5 and that chapter for a 2nd time, I don't want to rely on constant savestate saving and loading again.

Also, I'm not sure what the A route is like (I planned on saving the A route for my 2nd runthrough, since that'll be my "good" file), but 17B really overdid it with the ballistae. Sure, they give you ways to make it easier like paying 20,000 G to open the gate (though most players won't have that much money) and having NPC soldiers act as decoys (though even one of them dying makes you lose out on a Knight's Crest), but for the perfectionist in me, both of those aren't viable options. Maybe it's just me having problems with that level since I haven't heard anyone else complain about that chapter, but I can't help but feel like excessive ballistae in a chapter just makes it too frustrating and luck-based.

All that aside, I'm still glad I played and completed FE5 and I really did enjoy some of the more unique mechanics and ideas. But I don't think it's an FE game I'd complete 5 or more times (on that note, I've completed FE3, FE6, FE7, FE8, and FE11 5 or more times).

just gonna reply to the part about sophia and say i would consider using that garbage unit if the true god ray wasn't in the game already making her completely pointless

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