Tiki, Naga's Voice

[BANRYU]

@Ice Dragon I'm testing my build (+Res/-Spd Tiki with Res refinement, Warding Breath, QR3, and DD3) with no field buffs (IE Fort Dragons) against Julia. 

So interestingly yeah, as you say Defense is the main stat that matters for Julia since she can't OHKO through Tiki's skills, but she can if she doubles and escapes being OHKO'd. Atk Tactic boosted, +Atk Death Blow Julia will not kill Tiki, +Def Death Blow Julia with no buffs CAN kill her. 

I did some more finagling with skills and IVs and such to see how well Julia can consistently kill Tiki, and it seems like the conditions for Julia to win are QUITE narrow... Basically, outside of the conditions of the prior example or those achieving something similar, Julia cannot ORKO this variation of Tiki without buffs in Atk and/or Def, depending on her build and IVs-- and Tiki does not need much in the way of passive buff support to land that KO again or even escape being killed by the double. Julia DOES have the advantage of being able to run field buffs while Tiki cannot, but Tiki can just as easily neutralize Julia's advantage with passive buffs. 

Also.... Green Tomebreaker completely wrenches the works of Julia's ability to kill Minty Tiki, for whatever that's worth. Besides that, a lot of Julia still run -Def from the days when that was considered optimal for her, so the variations of Julia that can kill a GTB-less Tiki WITHOUT help are pretty few and far between, and most will need +4 in Atk AND Defense to kill her otherwise.

 

tl;dr I do think it's worth it. Even if Tiki's team can't provide the buffs needed to exonerate her while she has QR, she can simply run GTB to hard-counter Julia.

 

EDIT: My current Tiki is summoner supported and not really a fair comparison (she's in my sig all the same tho), so here is the statline we're looking at for a regular 5* Tiki: 

• +Res/-Spd IV // Lightning Breath+ [Res] | Bonfire | Warding Breath | QR3/GTB3 | flexible | Distant Def 3
• 45 HP | 47 Atk | 20 Spd | 35(+6) Def | 31(+4+6) Res

Parentheticals are the difference when she's initiated on ofc. 41 unboosted in both defenses is nothing to sneeze at. 

Edited March 10, 2018 by BANRYU

[Eridras]

6 hours ago, BANRYU said:

@Ice Dragon I'm testing my build (+Res/-Spd Tiki with Res refinement, Warding Breath, QR3, and DD3) with no field buffs (IE Fort Dragons) against Julia. 

So interestingly yeah, as you say Defense is the main stat that matters for Julia since she can't OHKO through Tiki's skills, but she can if she doubles and escapes being OHKO'd. Atk Tactic boosted, +Atk Death Blow Julia will not kill Tiki, +Def Death Blow Julia with no buffs CAN kill her. 

I did some more finagling with skills and IVs and such to see how well Julia can consistently kill Tiki, and it seems like the conditions for Julia to win are QUITE narrow... Basically, outside of the conditions of the prior example or those achieving something similar, Julia cannot ORKO this variation of Tiki without buffs in Atk and/or Def, depending on her build and IVs-- and Tiki does not need much in the way of passive buff support to land that KO again or even escape being killed by the double. Julia DOES have the advantage of being able to run field buffs while Tiki cannot, but Tiki can just as easily neutralize Julia's advantage with passive buffs. 

Also.... Green Tomebreaker completely wrenches the works of Julia's ability to kill Minty Tiki, for whatever that's worth. Besides that, a lot of Julia still run -Def from the days when that was considered optimal for her, so the variations of Julia that can kill a GTB-less Tiki WITHOUT help are pretty few and far between, and most will need +4 in Atk AND Defense to kill her otherwise.

 

tl;dr I do think it's worth it. Even if Tiki's team can't provide the buffs needed to exonerate her while she has QR, she can simply run GTB to hard-counter Julia.

 

EDIT: My current Tiki is summoner supported and not really a fair comparison (she's in my sig all the same tho), so here is the statline we're looking at for a regular 5* Tiki: 

• +Res/-Spd IV // Lightning Breath+ [Res] | Bonfire | Warding Breath | QR3/GTB3 | flexible | Distant Def 3
• 45 HP | 47 Atk | 20 Spd | 35(+6) Def | 31(+4+6) Res

Parentheticals are the difference when she's initiated on ofc. 41 unboosted in both defenses is nothing to sneeze at. 

Does your Tiki handle other opponents well?  I just wonder if focusing so much on Julia might weaken her in general. 

Also, do you prefer Bonfire over Aether? I can give her either, but playing around simulators makes it seem like Aether is largely wasted most of the time, especially the healing portion. 

I have the resources to make a +5 Tiki right now, but it’d leave me with no feathers. I also don’t want to “waste” the wrong Breath skill, even if both seem to work well on her. 

[BANRYU]

8 hours ago, Eridras said:

Does your Tiki handle other opponents well?  I just wonder if focusing so much on Julia might weaken her in general. 

Also, do you prefer Bonfire over Aether? I can give her either, but playing around simulators makes it seem like Aether is largely wasted most of the time, especially the healing portion. 

I have the resources to make a +5 Tiki right now, but it’d leave me with no feathers. I also don’t want to “waste” the wrong Breath skill, even if both seem to work well on her. 

Oh. Dude. You have no idea xD (she's linked in my sig if you want to check her out)

For one, yes, she handles other opponents very well. Before I even got Warding Breath I was (trying to get Steady Breath and eternally failing and instead) running Fury, and Tiki with healer support (healer also had Fort Res 3 / Fort Def 2 IIRC), she was responsible for pretty much soloing the left half of the infernal Tanamelia GHB map. Bows, non-Falchion swords, surprisingly many non-TA lances (hell I actually have one vague memory of mine, WEAKENED, taking out a full-health, TT-inflated stats Subaki), you name it. 

I don't doubt that Tiki might be perfectly well off focusing on purely pumping up that tangy defense, but personally I'm a really big advocate for double-sided tanking, and her defense is already so good that I think she's okay without needing to invest in it. It's also worth noting that if she's being run on a dragon team (barring rare and pointless comps with both Tikis, which I don't advise given the diversity of the other dragons), she pretty much HAS to be able to counter Julia or her whole team is at risk pretty hard. For general teams where she's being used to bypass tanky axe units on their weaker defense, someone else can be used to counter Julia, but I do think it's worthwhile to let her do it herself if she has the right IV and the skills for it (IE, yours).

As for Aether, I actually personally prefer it and run it on my own Tiki for dat sweet healing, but common consensus is that consistent procing is typically better than the charge-em-ups, so I imagine that Bonfire would still be the main slash in the writeup and Aether would be the secondary if @Ice Dragon thinks it's worth a mention (personally, I definitely do lol. Bonfire might be the preferred option for short-term engagements, IE Arena, but Aether is amazing for her survivability on reinforcement-ridden maps). 

 

At this point, I think you know what I'd suggest doing with your Tiki, but if you're still not totally sure, definitely wait and give yourself time to decide so you have no regrets. (but... yeah. Minty Tiki all the way)

Edited March 10, 2018 by BANRYU

[Eridras]

1 hour ago, BANRYU said:

Oh. Dude. You have no idea xD (she's linked in my sig if you want to check her out)

For one, yes, she handles other opponents very well. Before I even got Warding Breath I was (trying to get Steady Breath and eternally failing and instead) running Fury, and Tiki with healer support (healer also had Fort Res 3 / Fort Def 2 IIRC), she was responsible for pretty much soloing the left half of the infernal Tanamelia GHB map. Bows, non-Falchion swords, surprisingly many non-TA lances (hell I actually have one vague memory of mine, WEAKENED, taking out a full-health, TT-inflated stats Subaki), you name it. 

I don't doubt that Tiki might be perfectly well off focusing on purely pumping up that tangy defense, but personally I'm a really big advocate for double-sided tanking, and her defense is already so good that I think she's okay without needing to invest in it. It's also worth noting that if she's being run on a dragon team (barring rare and pointless comps with both Tikis, which I don't advise given the diversity of the other dragons), she pretty much HAS to be able to counter Julia or her whole team is at risk pretty hard. For general teams where she's being used to bypass tanky axe units on their weaker defense, someone else can be used to counter Julia, but I do think it's worthwhile to let her do it herself if she has the right IV and the skills for it (IE, yours).

As for Aether, I actually personally prefer it and run it on my own Tiki for dat sweet healing, but common consensus is that consistent procing is typically better than the charge-em-ups, so I imagine that Bonfire would still be the main slash in the writeup and Aether would be the secondary if @Ice Dragon thinks it's worth a mention (personally, I definitely do lol. Bonfire might be the preferred option for short-term engagements, IE Arena, but Aether is amazing for her survivability on reinforcement-ridden maps). 

 

At this point, I think you know what I'd suggest doing with your Tiki, but if you're still not totally sure, definitely wait and give yourself time to decide so you have no regrets. (but... yeah. Minty Tiki all the way)

Thanks for the detailed response!

I am tentatively planning on a midway build, with Steady Breath and a +Res refine to go with the +Res boon. She’ll also be glued to the hip of new BFF Ninian for another +8 to her defenses. I’ll probably sleep on it and decide for sure tomorrow.

I think I’ll never be comfortable going full dragons, at least for the arena. Instead I’ll do something like Myrrh, Ninian, Tiki, and Swordbreaker Sanaki to cover Naga and Falchion. 

Many thanks again!  You’ve definitely settled my mind on investing in her.  

[BANRYU]

2 hours ago, Eridras said:

Thanks for the detailed response!

I am tentatively planning on a midway build, with Steady Breath and a +Res refine to go with the +Res boon. She’ll also be glued to the hip of new BFF Ninian for another +8 to her defenses. I’ll probably sleep on it and decide for sure tomorrow.

I think I’ll never be comfortable going full dragons, at least for the arena. Instead I’ll do something like Myrrh, Ninian, Tiki, and Swordbreaker Sanaki to cover Naga and Falchion. 

Many thanks again!  You’ve definitely settled my mind on investing in her.  

Just remember that Divine Naga ignores field buffs, so that +8 from Ninian is really just a +2. (assuming you mean her Hone Drags that is).

I definitely think that if you want to go the res route, you gotta go balls-deep in it in order to succeed, but that's just me. Good luck with whatever you decide!

[Ice Dragon]

@Eridras @BANRYU

Basically, if you're running a Res-stacking build with Warding Breath and you want to be damned sure you don't get screwed over by a Julia, make sure someone in your party is running enough Atk-boosting combat buffs to guarantee a one-hit kill against her.

[BANRYU]

@Ice Dragon yeah, pretty much. Barring the aforementionedly rare Death Blow +Def Julia who can do it with no help, she can pretty much do it on her own all the time (assuming -Def Julia is still relatively common) ; in special cases or when Julia has buffs, it's not that hard to provide her with the assistance needed to land that KO. 

Does this mean you will or won't do the writeup for that one :0

Edited March 11, 2018 by BANRYU

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

Does this mean you will or won't do the writeup for that one :0

I'm planning on adding it, but it'll have to wait until I get some free time.

[BANRYU]

19 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm planning on adding it, but it'll have to wait until I get some free time.

No worries, man. 

If it would help, would you have objections to me contributing in that regard?

EDIT @ below (so as not to spam the thread) cool, I'll get to it if/when I can, whoever does it first I suppose lol. 

Edited March 11, 2018 by BANRYU

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

No worries, man. 

If it would help, would you have objections to me contributing in that regard?

Can't hurt.

[BANRYU]

Aight here goes. 

 

Warded Dragon (Res-focused enemy phase)
General use, Arena Offense, Assault/Chain modes

Spoiler

Suggested IVs: +Res/-Spd*, +Atk/-Spd, +Res/-HP

• +Res/-Spd: 45 HP |  47 Atk | 20 Spd | 35 Def | 31 Res
• +Atk/-Spd: 45 HP |  50 Atk | 20 Spd | 35 Def | 28 Res
• +Res/-HP: 42 HP |  47 Atk | 23 Spd | 35 Def | 31 Res

Weapon: Lightning Breath+ [Res]
Assist: Swap / Reposition / flexible
Special: Ignis / Bonfire / Aether 
A-Skill: Warding Breath* / Triangle Adept 3
B-Skill: Quick Riposte 3 / G Tomebreaker 3
C-Skill: Threaten Atk 3 / Hone Dragons / flexible
Sacred Seal: Distant Defense 3

Running with a team of her draconic brethren means Tiki must handle the important task of countering Julia and Deirdre, which is exactly what this build focuses on-- though fortunately, owing to her solid base Atk and Def, that's far from the only utility she brings to the team. One of the best users of Warding Breath, Tiki can achieve a hefty 41 in both defenses when being attacked at range thanks to the combination of Warding Breath and Distant Defense 3, and can be taken even further with Ward and Fortify Dragons or any other Spur or Drive skills. Against the power of Divine Naga, however, field buffs like Fortify Dragons are of no use; any variations of Julia or Deirdre with enough Defense to survive Tiki's initial counterattack and enough speed to double her WILL KO her, but fortunately, this is no easy task for the chosen priestesses of Naga-- Julia must be +Def and pack Death Blow in order to ORKO Tiki without assistance, and +Def variations of Julia and Deirdre are mercifully rare. With buffs to Attack or Defense Julia will have an easier time taking her out, but with passive buffs like Ward Dragons, Spur Atk, or even S-ranked ally support, Tiki can overcome the might of Divine Naga without too much hassle (no more than Julia would need to KO her in the first place). 

Fortunately, the rest of her matchups, especially when countering at range, are substantially more advantageous. With Quick Riposte, counterkilling ranged units (even including some physically-frail blue tomes) on enemy phase is a breeze, and so long as she is doubled (which will be basically all the time, especially if she's -Spd), Warding Breath allows her to proc Ignis, ensuring she can consistently KO whether attacked at melee range or afar. Alternatively, Aether is an excellent option to increase her longevity for reinforcement maps and modes like Chain Challenges or Tempest Trials, giving her immense staying power from how frequently Warding Breath makes it proc. However, since her melee statline is only 35 each on defense, she may struggle against robust lancers like Effie and Ephraim more than Defense-heavy Tiki variations, but that's what her green teammates are for. 

In terms of skill variation, +Res/-Spd with Warding Breath, Ignis (or Aether), Quick Riposte, and Distant Defense are the optimal build, but if Warding Breath is unavailable for whatever reason, running Triangle Adept and Bonfire will still allow her to procure victorious matchups against Julia and Deirdre at the cost of some performance against red and blue tome-users. Green Tomebreaker, though overall not as useful as Quick Riposte for her matchups at large, can also be utilized as a failsafe against Julia and Deirdre (even on Warding Breath sets), who will hardly ever OHKO a Res-stacked Tiki regardless of what buffs they run-- +Atk Julia with Death Blow only lands the ORKO when boosted by Atk Tactic and two rounds of Spur Atk 3, and she needs every point of those buffs to do so, meaning even a C-ranked ally a space away can spare Tiki from being KO'd.

Sorry if this is a bit wordy, you can feel free to trim it down or edit as needed. 

This is aiming to replace the 'standard dragon' TA set, of course. 

Edited March 20, 2018 by BANRYU