Persona 5 Mafia - Game Over

[Percivalé]

@bartozio pls pretend to understand my thought process that's what the rest of us do (pretend this is strikeout I'm too lazy on this device)

I'm on work break when's phase end I'll be able to catch up after work

 

[Percivalé]

oh by the way @ sully yes shinori is usually pretty reactive I wouldn't say it's alignment-indicative off the bat but in the end it's up to you how you interpret it

[SullyMcGully]

That's good to know. I just read over some of his past games and have come to the same conclusion.

##Unvote

##Vote: BBM

For reasons stated in the post I made about an hour ago.

[BBM]

I think I'm going to go with this actually: ##Vote: Sully

His last few posts make me uncomfortable because it feels like he's just hopping around pressuring people who don't have votes down at the moment or haven't posted in a while and taking that to accuse them of not contributing- namely he accuses both me and Shinori of having contributed little or having no reads when I don't think that's true. It also doesn't mesh with his reason for not being worried about Ken, which is that scum would be aware of not having reads and fix that. The other bit about Ken is also kind of meaningless: "if Ken's next post is bad I'll think he's scum and if Ken's next post is good I'll think he's town". No shit?

Plus, the explanation for the initial Shinori vote here is wack. What does your opinion of the alignment of the people who voted Shinori before you have to do with why you find him suspicious?

I considered voting Ken but it's been a while since he's posted so I'd like him to come back first. 

@kirsche/Refa- Mack's Shinori vote didn't really play any role in my decision to unvote him. I didn't delete any reasoning for why I found him town either; I deleted stuff that frustrated me about his play that he then fixed when he cut me. My original post read something like "I don't feel like lynching Mack anymore but it's frustrating that he's still voting Michelaar for bad reasons" and when he cut me with the change to Shinori I replaced it with "I don't feel like lynching Mack anymore; I had something that bothered me with him here before but the Shinori vote is fine I guess". I suppose my original post just didn't really have reasoning for why I didn't feel like lynching Mack anymore, but it was more related to how he responded to the votes on him by not overreacting to them; his tone seemed more likely to be town. I also thought that him admitting the cases against him were good was more likely to be town because I thought scum would be more aggressive in their defence of themselves. I also think that you guys are being a bit unfair regarding why he chose to vote Shinori on his wagon over me or Refa. "I just think Refa's attitude is town" is valid given the context. If somebody asked me my opinion on some of my townreads I'd probably say the same? He also doesn't townread Sully so much as say he's not sure about Sully.

I also don't think I'm defending Shinori. I just waffled a bit on whether or not I found the vehemence of his response to the votes against him scummy or not. Considering it relatively null at the moment. I still think Via's vote against Bartozio is bad; I just liked his other play more than Marth's other play so I wasn't as concerned about his slot overall.

[Percivalé]

@ bbm at the time I was confident Bart might be newbscum, my vote was probably kinda weak but I didn't really know who else I found scummier at the time. I could have voted prims but I doubted that would have gone anywhere whereas Bart actually had another vote + some attention on his play so I was like why not. and I hadn't read any other players as well at the time. I won't be able to make another solid vote/read of the thread until after work

[Refa]

I'm a bit distracted at the moment but your Sully read makes me uncomfortable because it seems like you're moreso taking issues with his reads than showing why his posts have scum intent.  Fair enough on your response to me I think, I'll read both in more detail when I'm less busy.

[Prims]

Hey so yeah I pretty much am voteparking at this point but how the hell has Ken still not come back with content? I think "being overreactive early on then pulling a vanishing act" is a pretty good justification as far as D1 lynches go.

Could easily see kirsche being scum but waiting for him to have the time to post more content before coming to a conclusion re:that. Bartozio feels like he doesn't have much presence even though he's been posting a lot? Don't know what's up with that.

Feeling better about both BBM and Marth after their recent content and interactions with each other.

Neutral on Shinori. His initial post with the sheep vote bugged me but since then he's basically OK if not rather angery.

@SB. New votals would be nice since there have been a lot unvotes recently. Also, you forgot to count Shinori's unvote here.

 

[Baldrick]

 

4 hours ago, Shinori said:

Fucking mack wagon winding down, getting flack for it, you kidding me?  I NEVER expected mack to actually be lynched, thought his first post was weird wanted a reaction, got a reaction, also got a lot of other people talking about mack and other parts of the game.  Also getting flak for it? The other person who "gave me flak" was mack and his reasoning for voting me IS poor and there is literally NOTHING I could, or SHOULD respond to his vote with.

 

1.At the time of your post on page 4, Mackc had already reacted. Why did you think it was more important to respond to Prims? Even if you didn't expect Mackc to be lynched, you still have a vote on him, so updating your read on him should be your priority.

2. Why was Mackc's reasoning poor? Why do you feel there is literally NOTHING you could respond to him with? That's not like you.

 

9 hours ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

Also, you say that you don't like me bringing up the fact that Bart has been mislynched 3 times in a row before this game. Well, where is the scum intent in what I said? That literally destroys any kind of support that I'd want if scum!me is trying to push for a Bart lynch(not talking of his  alignment  here, I don't know what your opinion of associative is), especially if you think that my initial case was weak.

The timing of it is weird to me. You first vote Bartozio page 2 (ftr I think it was alright for ED1 case), mention you're paranoid about mislynching him on page 4, and unvote him in your next post on page 6. I can see scum intent in that you didn't undermine your case on Bartozio until you saw that it had no support anyway.

 

8 hours ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

I don't agree with the Shinori cases. I'm townreading Mich here, but Shinori's vote switch isn't alignment indicative IMO. The momentum of the Mack wagon wasn't really shifting anywhere, I mean you only had the BBM voteswtich from Mack-->Marf, the only other thing I see on page 5 is kirsche's first post in the game, not finding mack scummy. I can't see this somehow convincing Shinori to voteswitch.

BBM and kirsche townreading him in quick succession felt like a momentum shift to me, perhaps I'm overvaluing their opinion.

However, I think the more telling part is Shinori's reaction to Mackc's vote on him, given his usual playstyle (see point 2 above).

 

@re: Sully; his reads are still nullish to me (could see either newbtown or newbscum) and the way he responded to Shinori and Marth reads as town confidence to me. Would not lynch.

 

Shinori is would lynch, but I need a break and another post before I decide on the order of my reads.

[Baldrick]

Addition by way of post

 

@BBM;

Ken is still on top because I'm the most sure he is scum. I've noted Kirsche's view that he may see ED1 as unimportant, so I'm going to re-evaluate him once he posts reads.
He says the first 12 hours aren't important, but it's almost 48 hours in and he still has no reads. He's been around, so I can't see any explanation other than he's just ignoring the thread and hoping his wagon starves to death.

This doesn't count as another post

[SB.]

Votals 1.6

Ken Masters (3): Baldrick, Prims. Bartozio
BBM (2): kirsche, SullyMcGully
SullyMcGully (2): Marth, BBM
Shinori (1): Mackc2
Mackc2 (1): Refa
Bartozio (1):  Via
Refa (1): Ken Masters

Not Voting (2): Shinori, Michelaar

With 13 alive, it takes 5 to lynch and 9 to hammer. You have 24 hours and 45 minutes left in the day.

Edited November 29, 2017 by SB.

[BBM]

I try to avoid using this word but basically it feels like Sully is misrepresenting both mine and Shinori's play in arguing that we don't have content, and his reasons for scumreading and townreading people aren't consistent. I think both those things are more likely to come from scum.

I'm okay with the Ken lynch and will vote there if we need more votes, but I think given that he hasn't played a lot of games, him losing interest is at least as plausible a reason for him not posting for a while as him wanting the wagon on him to die out, so I think the length of time since he last posted isn't that important.

I hadn't actually realized that so much of the game had passed though; I thought we were closer to 36 hours in than 48 hours in.

@SB- I'm voting Sully

[Shinori]

The reasoning behind the vote were that he thought someone on his wagon was scum, and my vote was the weakest in his opinion. I can see the logic behind it, as my vote was weak, but there isn't really any actual strength behind his vote.  Which is why I see nothing I can or should do against a vote like that outside of pressuring other targets.  I saw the logic in it, so I'm not gonna pressure it for being illogical but it was weak overall and I don't see any logical reason as to why I should make a post regarding it.

[Shinori]

Also in regards to your first point, I even stated that I was in the middle of a game at that time.  I hadn't been reading the thread really, I had just seen the prims question and dropped a quick response.

[Prims]

Honestly, I wish this D1 was only 48 hours.

Refa actually has me looking into a Mack lynch again. When Mack drops the Michelaar case to vote Shinori it comes off like Refa and Sully had to actively talk him out of the Michelaar vote, which is weird when the case for Shinori had existed before. Possibly switching his vote in response to pressure? Combined with his earlier defeatism (agreeing votes on him are good) I'd be fine dropping this slot today if not Ken.

Unsure on Via atm, like kirsche his content hasn't left much of an impression but also like kirsche being busy probably factors in there. Frustratingly the most prominent people this game are the ones I don't really want to lynch on D1.

Clearly we should have Rapier sub in for Ken.

[Prims]

Shinori responding aggressively to what he considers craplogic on him except when it's Mack pushing it is kind of strange. I remember Shinori unvoted because he said he had to figure out which of the Baldrick/Bart/Mich to see who he's voting, which seems like an arbitrary selection pool to me. If just going by who suspects him, a) why b) why isn't Mack being considered? Shinori, do you think Mack isn't worth lynching?

Overall I want Shinori to post explicit reads instead of just targeted frustration at people which could be interpreted in multiple ways.

[Shinori]

I actually need to read page 7 again as I've just kind of been skimming while playing games.

One thing though prims, I never said it was crap logic and literally said I CAN SEE THE LOGIC IN WHAT MACK WAS SAYING.

Reads I have at the moment:

Don't like Bartozio and would lynch her, will post more about it later.

Want to hear more from Quote, pretty neutral but gut feeling is scummy at the moment.  (My gut's always retarded though.)

Not reading Prims as obvtown which says a lot in itself and I don't like that.

Also I'm rather iffy and scum reading on Mich.  Because even with him voting me and posting his reasonings for me he seemed to unvote me rather easily.  It was also very weird how he unvoted me.  I stated the same thing like 3 times until he finally goes "Oh yeah I guess you're right" and unvotes.

Those are my biggest reads but I need to do a reread(Which I can actually do without getting tilted, it's only 7 pages holy fuck)

[Shinori]

Priority as of the moment would be:

Bartozio > Mich > Prims > Quote > Everyone else

Also I don't like the sully votes.

[Shinori]

And I keep waffling on BBM but I don't know what to do regarding that.  Good ol' fence sitting is starting to hurt.

[Baldrick]

24 minutes ago, Prims said:

Honestly, I wish this D1 was only 48 hours.

##Activate Persona Power: Wish Granting

I hope the votals as they stand are correct.

[Prims]

Uhhh that would be a No Lynch if real so I hope that's fake if you're town. (It's fucked up because I actually have seen roles like that before.)

[SullyMcGully]

3 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

##Activate Persona Power: Wish Granting

I hope the votals as they stand are correct.

Wait, this is a joke, right? 

[SullyMcGully]

The votals aren't correct, BBM just voted me and SB forgot to count it.

[SullyMcGully]

And I know just which Persona 5 character would have that power... this is real, isn't it? 

[Baldrick]

I legit forgot about the 5 votes to lynch so I'm relieved I just made it up.

[Prims]

lmao

We should get two more votes on Ken just in case.