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Persona 5 Mafia - Game Over


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I've explained lots of reasons I think you're scum that go back before the Mack claim? Also that italicized part has an implied "if you were town" at the end. Seriously, if you're town, explain why you did that? Mack didn't claim a guilty on you; he claimed a role which had communication with Paper and a more cogently worded case on you than he had had before. When people pointed out how it was so unlikely for Mack to be lying, you gave answers like "another buddy helped him craft a list of 10 reads" and didn't back down until it was 100% impossible for him to be lying. Your reasons for thinking he was lying, IIRC, were that he didn't vote you on D1 despite Paper thinking you were scum. I don't see how this is strong enough to overcome everything else.

And the point of that post was to say that yes, there are some things that I'm not sure why you would do if you were scum, but there are more that I'm not sure why you would do as town.

anyways just a heads up that I have a take home exam tomorrow and I may be working on it all day and therefore might not have much time for mafia

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3 minutes ago, Refa said:

You read the Shinori/Michelaar interactions and thought scum/scum?

Yeah, seriously? One of the guiding principles in my scumteam building logic is that Shinori and Michelaar are almost certainly not on a team together. Neither of them has the self-control necessary to make that illusion.

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bbbbbbbbbbb there are a lot of words

sully said something at daystart that pinged me which was that they were surprised i didn't die last night and that's definitely something i can see coming from scum who considered killing people that people were reading as town, and they killed prims instead, who people were reading as scum, and they could play the "huh i was sure scum would kill this person" and they never really addressed it again either. i've been thinking about it and now i'm starting to think some of their cluelessness is being forced

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On 12/1/2017 at 6:53 PM, SullyMcGully said:

@Refa: Before Prims died, you were my strongest townread. I kinda thought you were everybody else's strongest townread also, so why didn't you die last night? I'll discuss this in depth later.

@via: You were my second strongest townread and you didn't die last night either. Maybe I'm missing something.

this post right here. this is weird

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i think because of this refa is most likely town if sully flips scum, which i think is more likely now. i was super set on them being town yesterday (some of the things i said were when i was under the influence of heavy medication which was my own fault) but now i don't think so anymore. i think it would make sense for scum!sully to say something like this after killing a viable wagon from d1 (and would also make sense since prims was likely a fearkill, though there was also the possibility he had a power role).

scum probably knew doc wouldn't be on prims considering a significant portion of the game thought he was scum.

i agree with bbm i guess regarding how marth probably wouldn't go through reading an entire past game for a townread. i voted him off of thinking he was trying to start an opportunistic case on me while being cautious about it (considering previous experience with that which i kept in mind).

i'm going to look up the possibility of a sully/shinori scumteam. still don't know about baldrick but i feel like for the purpose of associative reads it's probably just better we lynched him anyway and got on with it. i really do think sully is scum now though. i only think kirsche is scum off of PoE and general gut which isn't really something i can back up or explain and i know that's irritating but i'm trying my best.

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I'm going to bed now. @via, I'll address your points tomorrow when you're done making them. Here's my lynch list:

Baldrick>>>>>Michelaar>Shinori>Bartozio>Everybody else>Mackc2

My non-Baldrick reads are starting to suffer, I'm going to be doing a lot of updating tomorrow but there's a lot of progress that can't be made until we see the results of a Baldrick lynch. I disagree with BBM about hammering though, I feel like there's still more discussion to be had D2. 

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16 minutes ago, BBM said:

I've explained lots of reasons I think you're scum that go back before the Mack claim? Also that italicized part has an implied "if you were town" at the end. Seriously, if you're town, explain why you did that? Mack didn't claim a guilty on you; he claimed a role which had communication with Paper and a more cogently worded case on you than he had had before. When people pointed out how it was so unlikely for Mack to be lying, you gave answers like "another buddy helped him craft a list of 10 reads" and didn't back down until it was 100% impossible for him to be lying. Your reasons for thinking he was lying, IIRC, were that he didn't vote you on D1 despite Paper thinking you were scum. I don't see how this is strong enough to overcome everything else.

And the point of that post was to say that yes, there are some things that I'm not sure why you would do if you were scum, but there are more that I'm not sure why you would do as town.

Paper caught me off guard. I had a good idea of what Mackc's reads were, then suddenly he comes in with a completely different set of reads that he had before and says he had them all along. I panicked and went with my initial gut reaction.

If you don't like the explanation, what is your alternative? As scum, I would know a hidden player exists.

If you have an implied "if you were town", that means you do have a perfectly believable explanation for why I did it as scum, instead of claiming a power role?

 

@via; you're just going to wash your hands in regards to me?Or do you think the scumteam is sully/me/shinori? 

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On 30/11/2017 at 10:53 PM, Baldrick said:

This line

When people target me, it comes across as scummy to me because I'm the easiest to take advantage of.

actually bothers me a lot because it sounds like they're talking from experience they don't have.

 

Isn't that like what you said earlier? sully suddenly being competent for somebody who's barely played mafia?

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1 minute ago, Baldrick said:

Refa, talk to me.

Do you consider me case closed because I was wrong about Mackc's role? I know I said I was done, but I was wrong about that also.

No, I don't think that you being wrong about Mackc2's role makes you scum (and I don't think Mackc2 is confirmed town but IMO it's more likely to be from town).  I do think the case is more likely to come from scum, because you just said he was faking it (w/the help of scumbuddies) without really considering the response of people like BBM etc who asked you who do you think would be faking it as scum.  This at least shows a lack of a thought process, which isn't always scum but more likely to be (and considering it is you, I do think you'd think it through more, or at least consider the other viewpoints).  You didn't ask about this, but I read your convo w/BBM and you made a faulty assumption WRT your roleclaim.  Scum isn't always going to play optimally, and a vanilla claim isn't suboptimal enough for me to be like "wow, there's no way Baldrick would do this as scum".

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You think Mackc is telling the truth and scum has his role PM. If I'm scum, I have his role PM so I'm aware there is a hidden player. If you think I think things through, do you think I would think about how to handle a hidden player claim and not immediately jump to "he must be lying!"

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1 minute ago, Baldrick said:

You think Mackc is telling the truth and scum has his role PM. If I'm scum, I have his role PM so I'm aware there is a hidden player. If you think I think things through, do you think I would think about how to handle a hidden player claim and not immediately jump to "he must be lying!"

A risk VS reward analysis would mean that scum!you would benefit more from people potentially agreeing w/you than you'd lose by people being suspicious of you.

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Like, as scum you'd be spending the whole game saying "this guy is lying about being town, lynch them!".  Saying that about a specific claim that you know is town is no different, especially considering scum!you would be saying that about every town claim you'd want to be lynched (despite knowing that they're town).

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3 minutes ago, Refa said:

A risk VS reward analysis would mean that scum!you would benefit more from people potentially agreeing w/you than you'd lose by people being suspicious of you.

But it's so unlikely that people would potentially agree with me. Wouldn't a PR claim have a much better chance of being believed.

 

Scum know town can't prove they're town without being modkilled. The hidden player could easily prove they exist.

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Just now, Baldrick said:

But it's so unlikely that people would potentially agree with me. Wouldn't a PR claim have a much better chance of being believed.

Scum know town can't prove they're town without being modkilled. The hidden player could easily prove they exist.

A PR claim could get you CC'd and guaranteed a lynch.  Obviously, this would be a good scum play if you had given up and just wanted to take one for the team, but your play before and now is suggesting that is not the case.

Regardless of your alignment, you didn't think that the hidden player could easily prove that they existed, otherwise you would have tried to prove it instead of claiming that Mackc2 was lying.

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You think my play immediately after mackc's claim is of the same tone as my play now?

 

I hadn't read that scum had his role PM yet. The first thing I read was Paper's list of reads, and cross-referencing them with Mackc's reads at the time.

If you spend five minutes thinking about it, as scum would have the opportunity to, it's obviously easy to prove.

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your tone's changed because you panicked when Mack first claimed and were just saying whatever whereas now you're calmer because you've had the chance to think it over more, but your play in both cases suggested trying to survive. the latter is what Refa is getting at, not the former

mack says right at the top of his post where he claims that scum has his role PM so I don't know what to say

it's just weird that your first thought was to be like "let me cross-reference all of Paper's and Mack's reads" when they're two separate people allowed to have separate opinions? first thing I did was check the rules in the OP to see what it said about hidden players and once I saw that that rule wasn't there and read the post with Paper's reads again it was obvious he was telling the truth

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@BBM you said earlier that my response to the mackc2 play looked like I was trying to force a 1v1, in a last-resort ploy to try and lynch him because he was an attractive target

now you say it looks like I was trying to survive? elaborate.

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