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Garlyle

Getting into Hard Mode

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I did get into Hard Mode for the first time, and I already used some of the hints you guys gave me. While in Normal mode I haven't used Marcus at all, he is important to reduce enemy health close to a kill. A lot of time I had little gain from level ups, but Wolt by gaining a few points of Strength he's already more useful than in my previous playthrough. Enemy strength seem to be much higher, and they got much luckier with hits than I did. Also in Ch.4. (where I am now) they can even double me, scary. Maybe I'll give it one more try, but I'm leaning more toward to start over. What I'm thinking is to:

- keep my formations more defensive, and take my time on the maps.
- pay attention to my level ups, and try to get early Spd bonuses as soon as possible.(seems more important now)
- plan out my supports in advance
- try to utilize more of the characters.

By the last one, I'll avoid Wendy, Sophia, Cath, Hugh. There are other characters I don't like, but I'll see how the situation goes for them. Wendy and Sophia are too much babysit for Hard mode I guess, and Cath and Hugh doesn't seem to be great units, you'll already have much better options with much better stats in their classes; at least I hope I can level Chad, his speed could be great.

Any suggestion for Supports and when and where should I spend my Gold?
 

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Alan and Lance are amazing supports. I usually have them go A rank each other and B rank Roy.

Clarinet/Rutgers/Klein/dieck all support each other and are really good.

Dieck/Thany/Lott also support each other. Though Lott is kinda reliant on getting good levels, otherwise ditch him.

 

Wolt and Dorothy ain't worth it all that much. Use mounts and prepromotes, and don't be afraid to promote units early.

 

Also, plan your routes. Illia or Sacae 

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3 minutes ago, Skurge said:

Though Lott is kinda reliant on getting good levels, otherwise ditch him.

Is it really worth bothering with axe users on hard mode anyway? I'm just sayin, axes are preeeeetty bad in FE6 aside from Armads. Their hit makes anyone locked to them a pain in the ass to train or reliably deal damage at all to begin with.

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For Supports

Rutger, Clarine, Dieck support triangle is super funny when it gets off the ground, although it takes forever. Alan/Lance have a good support for gameplay. I’d recommend just checking out the support list here on Serenes to just pair up all the units you plan on using, as this game has a lot of good supports. 

As for units

Marcus and Zealot are good till Arcadia

Alan and Lance are basically always good, never amazing, but they’re usually above the curve

All unpromoted armor units should be avoided like the plague. unpromoted archers (not Nomads) to a lesser extent

chad is bad for combat, he can’t promote so it’s not like he becomes good at combat. I’d recommend using Astohl for your theif needs (FYI speed is irrelevant for stealing)

Saul is a good choice for a staff user

Axe users aren’t very good. They miss too much (although Echidna, Bartre and to a lesser extent Lot are okay)

Niime is a very good lategame staffbot, as well as Yodel

Raigh and Lilina aren’t good (although they are definitely usable)

I’d recommend you earlypromote Rutger before the 8x Hero boss, and Thany and a cavalier before Chapter 9 so they are really good for the western isles (seriously, early promoted Thany is amazing for the Western Isles, does good damage, flies, and almost never gets hit).

I’d also recommend Ilia if you want the easier route.

This is a lot of recommendations. This is probably the easiest way to get through Hard mode, but don’t be afraid to use you favorites even if I recommend that you don’t use them, they are a pain to raise, but the point of the game is to have fun.

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2 hours ago, CatManThree said:

Is it really worth bothering with axe users on hard mode anyway? I'm just sayin, axes are preeeeetty bad in FE6 aside from Armads. Their hit makes anyone locked to them a pain in the ass to train or reliably deal damage at all to begin with.

You get a hammer, halberd, and killer axe early on. It's not the worst idea to try to nuke things. Besides Lott has good promo gains. Iirc. Fe6 warriors have amazing promo gains. It helps that most enemies early on have lances too.

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4 hours ago, Skurge said:

You get a hammer, halberd, and killer axe early on. It's not the worst idea to try to nuke things. Besides Lott has good promo gains. Iirc. Fe6 warriors have amazing promo gains. It helps that most enemies early on have lances too.

It really is just the unpromoted axe users that suck. Once you get Lott, Gonzales or Geese to promote, they turn into quite capable units thanks to their great promotion gains. The problem is getting them there. All axe users are hard to train due to having either bad accuracy, bad speed, or bad durability. Gonzales on hard mode is the easiest since he comes with good base stats and can be instantly promoted if you go the B route on the western isles. 

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Mind you I haven't played FE6 yet, but looking purely at the numbers, I see that Iron, Steel, and Javelin Lances have a mere 5 Hit over their Axe equivalents. Although for Killer, Silver, and anti-horse, it's 10 Hit. So Axes are inferior vs. neutral targets, be it slightly or more significantly. WTA/D is +/-10 Hit. So a Killer Axe with WTA is 75 Hit, the same as a Killer Lance, except the Axe is slightly stronger, with Iron vs. Iron, the Axe gets a 5 Hit lead. The Sword with WTD is as accurate an Axe with WTA (Iron), or slightly less so (Killer).

Killers are buyable rather early on and easy to hit the rank for too (I heard Weapon Rank issues exist in FE6). However, Killer Axes get shafted because you have to go 11-Lalum to buy them, while the Killer Lance is buyable in 13 at the earliest- alongside the Bow and KE. The next chance for KA is 17-Ilia/18-Sacae.

As for the Skill and Luck stats of the users of Axes vs. that of Lances. At 20/10:

For the Lance side: Alen is 17&14. Normal Perceval is 14&13 (~17 and 15 on Hard). Shanna is 23&22 (but only 14 Str)/ Normal Thite is 19&11 (Hard 11 Lalum Thite is ~23 and 14; 16/19 Hard Str, ). Lance is 21&11. Melady is on Normal is 22&9. Zeiss is 22&10 or 26&13 on Hard.

On the Axe side: Wade is 18&~16, Lot is 17&10 (18 Str). Geese is 19&~16. Normal Elphin Gonzalez (his worst self) is 13&11, while Hard Lalum Gonzalez (his best self) is 16&~14. Bartre is 13&16. Normal Garret is 15&13, while Hard is 18&15.

Now I intentionally left out those crappy Knights out of this, and I also ignored the lesser Cavs/Pallies and that they can use Axes too, on top of the extremely accurate Swords. The same for the Mercenary trio- all able to use Swords and Axes with good or great Skill. Nonetheless, you can see that the base Axe users aren't in the pits when it comes to Skill and Luck. Perceval on Normal is as bad as Garret and almost as bad as Gonzales. Melady is super good, but what else is new?

So, other issues aside, Axes are slightly better against Lances than Lances themselves. This ignoring the enemy's hit penalty from WTD a moment, which can mitigate Alen's avoid lead over a Geese of the same level (17-18 Spd & 16-18 Luck vs. 20-21 Spd & 14 Luck). And at given Geese at 20/10 has 6 more HP and the same Defense as Alen, plus the good chance to possibly crit and OHKO on the counter, it'd make him as durable and offensively superior against a crowd of pure Lances.

I'm not saying Axes = Good, or better than Lances, only Axes usable and a little favorable in certain circumstances. Weapon diversity and maintaining WTA is the real winner in FE6, on paper at least.

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9 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Mind you I haven't played FE6 yet, but looking purely at the numbers, I see that Iron, Steel, and Javelin Lances have a mere 5 Hit over their Axe equivalents. Although for Killer, Silver, and anti-horse, it's 10 Hit. So Axes are inferior vs. neutral targets, be it slightly or more significantly. WTA/D is +/-10 Hit. So a Killer Axe with WTA is 75 Hit, the same as a Killer Lance, except the Axe is slightly stronger, with Iron vs. Iron, the Axe gets a 5 Hit lead. The Sword with WTD is as accurate an Axe with WTA (Iron), or slightly less so (Killer).

The TL;DR is that the weapon type with weapon triangle advantage is always the best choice. An iron axe deals 5 points more damage than an iron sword against a lance user with the same hitrate, for example.

Axelocked units are in a somewhat awkward spot because the midgame doesn't grant them that sweet WTA too often, which makes it more difficult and unreliable to get them into promotion range in a reasonable timeframe. If you do promote them, they're fine, just not as versatile as heroes and especially paladins.

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Ok, so I did restart, but now I paid more attention to my level ups and I was more confident in my team than before. Because of the mounted units it was still a rollercoaster, and the HM reinforcement was an unpleasant surprise, but I did beat it.You might find my Chad overlevelled with Lv7,but he and Rutger have the best avoids with 37-39 base now. I also made an unnecesarry support between Ward and Lot, but I thought they could really use the extra avoid, My top units now are Dieck, Lance, Chad, Rutger and Allen. I hope Lugh and Thany will catch up.

Btw, how good are Bishops? I'm still leaning toward Clarine, but Elen still has a chance.

Edited by Garlyle

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So, in the recent days I just made a second playthrough as good practice, visited the chapters on the alternate route, and tried to unlock the chapters after Zephiel (goofed up again, because my Elphin died, and I was not aware that I need him). Still a bunch of question came to my mind for Hard Mode earlygame, which needs answers(some of them are related). I appreciate all the help I can get from you guys.

- How good are Bishops? Is it worth promoting one, or just go with my choice of healer?

- What about experience? Should I try to focus training up my main forces, or spare some for hard to train units that I need later? (Thief)

- In Hard Mode there are more reinforcements. Is it advised to defeat all the enemies, or try to spare some of my weapons?

- We don't have shops in the prep menu on Hard Mode, but I do have a bunch of sword users. Good idea to buy ca. 20 swords early?

- Should I worry about my stat growths, or I don't need to manage my level up records?

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1 hour ago, Garlyle said:

So, in the recent days I just made a second playthrough as good practice, visited the chapters on the alternate route, and tried to unlock the chapters after Zephiel (goofed up again, because my Elphin died, and I was not aware that I need him). Still a bunch of question came to my mind for Hard Mode earlygame, which needs answers(some of them are related). I appreciate all the help I can get from you guys.

- How good are Bishops? Is it worth promoting one, or just go with my choice of healer?

- What about experience? Should I try to focus training up my main forces, or spare some for hard to train units that I need later? (Thief)

- In Hard Mode there are more reinforcements. Is it advised to defeat all the enemies, or try to spare some of my weapons?

- We don't have shops in the prep menu on Hard Mode, but I do have a bunch of sword users. Good idea to buy ca. 20 swords early?

- Should I worry about my stat growths, or I don't need to manage my level up records?

Saul is good for Warp in faster play, and in slower play he has decent combat promoted (better than Elen). I’d promote Saul, he’s fairly good.

Focus on your main units. Thieves don’t need speed to steal (however stupid it might be), so an untrained Ashtol can steal anything you want. You don’t really need any units, so I wouldn’t bother training someone just because you need them.

You don’t need to defeat reinforcements. Do what you want, but IMO it’s better to just ignore the reinforcements. It’s not really a big deal and is a detriment on some of the later chapters

I’d recommend against buying that many swords. Two or three at a time is fine, but there are some cool items in Ch. 21 and if you buy too many other things you can miss out on some really nice items.

You don’t really need to manage your level ups. There are a couple of times where certain thresholds would be very nice to hit, but you’ll probably do fine. There was a 0% growths hard mode run that you should consider checking out. Growths should almost never kill your run.

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  • Bishops are fine if you really want to use them, but Ellen and Saul are squishy (Ellen in particular since her spd is shit) and have infantry move. Besides you get a prepromoted bishop if you just wanna lug the S rank light tome to the final chapter. Clarine's considered the best healer in this game because of her mount and ridiculously good support list. Cecilia's also pretty decent. On another note, you could also just promote Lilina asap because that magic growth+basic heal gets a lot. You'll probably have her to d/c staves by Etruria if you're playing at a slowish pace.
  • Main forces, but growth units want some too. Astol's the best their because of his bases and con. There's also the thing about needing exp for certain units to access some routes. (sacae vs illia)
  • Depends on what you want. THough I'd suggest looking up the bonus chapter reqs.
  • no, it's a waste because of the price.
  • sorta, but there's a lot of prepromotes.

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2 hours ago, Garlyle said:

So, in the recent days I just made a second playthrough as good practice, visited the chapters on the alternate route, and tried to unlock the chapters after Zephiel (goofed up again, because my Elphin died, and I was not aware that I need him). Still a bunch of question came to my mind for Hard Mode earlygame, which needs answers(some of them are related). I appreciate all the help I can get from you guys.

- How good are Bishops? Is it worth promoting one, or just go with my choice of healer?

- What about experience? Should I try to focus training up my main forces, or spare some for hard to train units that I need later? (Thief)

- In Hard Mode there are more reinforcements. Is it advised to defeat all the enemies, or try to spare some of my weapons?

- We don't have shops in the prep menu on Hard Mode, but I do have a bunch of sword users. Good idea to buy ca. 20 swords early?

- Should I worry about my stat growths, or I don't need to manage my level up records?

A healer is a must, to be frank - you NEED Restore if you don't want to be frustrated by status staff spam.

Main forces, though there might be some reasons to feed exp to others (mainly the second route spilt).

That is up to you, but I wouldn't dilly-dally on all chapters...

That's a bit much...

I would say sorta.

32 minutes ago, Skurge said:
  • On another note, you could also just promote Lilina asap because that magic growth+basic heal gets a lot. You'll probably have her to d/c staves by Etruria if you're playing at a slowish pace.

Except for the part where "snail's pace" would be too kind in referring to the rate of wexp gain (aka forget about getting promoted mages to a respectable staff rank, because it ain't happenin').

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

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Lot of great information contributed so I will try my best not to regurgitate old information.

On 12/1/2017 at 6:42 AM, Garlyle said:

- plan out my supports in advance

That is a great thing to do.  In Hard Mode supports are very important and could be the difference between life and death, especially if you get RNG screwed.  You might want to consider to start forming 2 strong support triangles (as mentioned earlier), and you can start working on them right away.  This will be the nucleus of your team.

- Roy, Allen, Lance: Allen/Lance at A and B's with Roy -  Since Roy is obligatory, might as well support him arguably the two best units in the game.  I usually save Roy's last support for Marcus.

-Clarine, Rutger, Dieck: Clarine/Rutger at A and B's with Dieck - Turns Clarine into a dodge tank, Rutger into a crit machine, and Dieck as a solid frontliner with decent defense and crit.

If you plan it out right, you can have the RAL triangle fully formed at the end of Chapter 4 and the CRD triangle formed after Chapter 7.  There is a limited amount of support points per chapter (120? someone confirm or correct), so character placing is important since you don't want characters you don't plan on using taking up precious support points (I'm looking at you Wolt!).  These 6 units can carry you pretty far in the game.  Other supports to consider:

- Miledy, Zeiss: These wyverns are awesome, especially with insane hard mode bonuses!  You could merge Ellen into a support triangle with them if you want, since she can support them both.  It's risky but Ellen's wind affinity helps the wyverns immensely on offense.

- Sue, Shin: Nomads > Archers due to greater mobility and access to swords once they promote.  I go Sacae route, so merging Dayan for a triangle is a viable option.

- Percival, Klein: Two awesome pre-promotes that benefit greatly benefit from Hard Mode boosts.  Percival comes with LOL bases and could end up being better than Allen and Lance.  Klein can link up with Dieck to form a formidable 5-man support team.

You're probably pretty deep into a current Hard Mode file, but just something to think about on your next run :)

 

Also in terms of "managing level-ups," I am not sure what you mean by this.  You are pretty much at the mercy of the RNG gods.  But as a user on here stated earlier, growths shouldn't kill your run.  From my experiences units tend to stay true to their growths.  I did make a stat-projection spreadsheet to make sure that my units weren't falling too far behind in certain stats, and I always save my stat boosters for those units who need them.

Edited by anniec8711

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On 2/12/2018 at 12:20 AM, anniec8711 said:

You're probably pretty deep into a current Hard Mode file, but just something to think about on your next run :)

Not really, I actually ditched that savefile for my other normal mode playthrough. I did another start for Hard Mode being more confident in the game, but it's really disturbing how many times the enemy hits with only 30-40 percent chance to hit. My luck is just not finding me in Hard mode. Sometimes I'm wondering if I could struggle through the early chapters, it gets any better in the late chapters. I mean on Normal Mode after Chapter 16, the game feels less punishing.

Spoiler

Why not earlier?

Ch1: hard hitting axe users
Ch2: wall of enemies
Ch3: the early rush
Ch4: horses
Ch5: the reinforcements
Ch6: the early rush
Ch7: number of enemies
Ch8: long chapter
Ch8x: the boss
Ch9: axe swarm
Ch10: boss again
Ch11: killer bow, so many things could go wrong
Ch12: many ranged
Ch12x: the dark mage
Ch13: horse reinforcements
Ch14: the whole map
Ch14x: the whole map
Ch15: reaching the village in time
Ch16: long chapter, douglas
Ch16x: the ranged attacks

 

Edited by Garlyle

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I remember finishing Normal Mode and then going into Hard Mode thinking "This shouldn't be that bad" . . .  I got my shit ruined on Chapter 1.

Early game is super difficult because you don't have many units who can tank hits and your dealing with enemies who get roided up stats.  It also doesn't help that the RNG gives you the finger ever other battle, "WTA?  What is that? LOL!"

I remember Chapter 4 and 7 being very difficult.  Chapter 7 in particular, not only because of the chaos and randmoness of the chapter, but the NPC's almost always get themselves into trouble with impromptu kamikaze attacks that leave you yelling in frustration. By the time Chapter 7 is done I feel the game gets much easier.  Not because the Chapters are easy but because you team will be pretty strong enough to handle most enemies, especially if you have developed your supports.  The Chapter that truly gave me any trouble after the early game was the infamous Chapter 21.  That's why I always go the Sacae Route as the Nomads really help in taking down all the wyverns.  Even Dayan proved his worth by providing some effective dragon killing.

 

Edited by anniec8711

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On 2/21/2018 at 9:36 PM, anniec8711 said:

I remember Chapter 4 and 7 being very difficult.  Chapter 7 in particular, not only because of the chaos and randmoness of the chapter, but the NPC's almost always get themselves into trouble with impromptu kamikaze attacks that leave you yelling in frustration. By the time Chapter 7 is done I feel the game gets much easier.  Not because the Chapters are easy but because you team will be pretty strong enough to handle most enemies, especially if you have developed your supports.  The Chapter that truly gave me any trouble after the early game was the infamous Chapter 21.  That's why I always go the Sacae Route as the Nomads really help in taking down all the wyverns.  Even Dayan proved his worth by providing some effective dragon killing.

 

I'm in Ch6 now, only Bors died because I was an idiot, maybe her cute little sister will be able to replace him. I'll try to further level up my units this level, Thany is still behind. But I also want to work on my supports. Wolt and Roy has B, Allen x Lance is B, Rutger x Clarine is C, and Lugh x Chad is C. (Also Wade x Lot is B, but noone cares)

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53 minutes ago, Garlyle said:

I'm in Ch6 now, only Bors died because I was an idiot, maybe her cute little sister will be able to replace him. I'll try to further level up my units this level, Thany is still behind. But I also want to work on my supports. Wolt and Roy has B, Allen x Lance is B, Rutger x Clarine is C, and Lugh x Chad is C. (Also Wade x Lot is B, but noone cares)

R.I.P. Bors.
Never to be mistaken for the Irate Gamer again.

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Phew, finished Chapter 7 on second try, I was worried it would take much longer; after what I heard about it. Btw Treck is dead, no hard feelings.

I went to the right to the villages, Chad did most of the village visits. Zealot took care of some units, especially the annoying healers. Lugh and Rutrger was an absolute must, but Roy also did some work with the Rapier. Alen and Lance just did what they were able to do best together. Marcus was a blessing on a horse. Plus Dieck, 2 healers, 2 archers. All the enemies were down by turn 8, except the boss. I decided to ignore the reinforcements from the south, Thany was able to lure them to the wrong direction.

Now if you excuse me, I need to find out how godly Lilina will be.

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Good job, way to go!  Losing Treck is fine.  Good thing you kept Noah though, which is the one you NEED to have alive.

Llilina didn't do so well for me, but you might have better luck with her level ups.  She had a real hard time hitting things.  I went with Ray, Lugh, and Saul as my main spellcasters.  Astohl is IMO the best thief in the game.  Chad is still good cuz some levels might require 2 thieves.

Miledy, Zeiss, Gonzales, Shin, Fir, Tate, Klein, and Perceval get super-roided stats on HM.  Make sure to get Percy on Chapter 15.

Good luck as you continue!

Edited by anniec8711

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Day 2 on the same map, I'm pretty sure I'm doing something wrong here.

Chapter 8, the first 14 turn is a walk in the park now, just run through a bunch of enemies, get to the treasure room in time, grab all the items, free Lilina and equip her with a lot of spell, but then I get the reinforcements sandwich, and everything goes wrong.

I seriously can't tell why the archers and mercenaries are giving me this much trouble, I thought this is going to be the first chapter where I can survive without utilizing Marcus. Alen+Lance A plus Marcus did a good work to kill the reinforcements from the back, but now a random archer one-shot my Lilina with a Steel Arrow, and I need to redo the whole 23 turn progress I made.

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Finally, Chapter 8 is done. Also Chapter 8x, which felt kind of refreshing after all the punishment I got for not planning correctly against 32 enemy units. Luckily everybody survived this map, for trading in a couple of the worst level ups I could get. After the number of attempts I had, I decided I'm going to leave it that way, and see how far I can take it.

jicowbU.png

Meet Rutger after I promoted him after reaching Lv.15. He was a key part of beating Henning with his promotional bonuses. I kinda feel like I made the optimal choice, since the hard mode bonuses gives me enough room to skip a few level ups and dive right into SwordMaster Critger mode. But he was not the one who took the glory of killing Henning, it was...

vJUSpnz.png

Say hello to Lilina. I know some of you are thinking that she doesn't look amazing with those stats, but the fact that she's a mage and she has a B support with Roy makes her the ideal mage. I'm putting my hopes in Lilina, she's going to take down some big shots.

GhnfpqW.png

Just to give you guys a comparison, in average Lugh is falling behind Lilina. That Spd and Skl is lovely, but that Mag is crippling him.

Also I can't wait to add Fir to my team. With her Hard Mode bonuses she looks insane for a Lv.1 Myrmidon. I was thinking to start training Dorothy again since she shined in my last playthrough, but I probably get much better archers laters on, so I should probably stick with the Nomads for now.

Edited by Garlyle

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Quick question. I'm up to Chapter 18, bough a bunch of Iron weapons without the Silver card, and I still feel uncomfortable economy-wise.

Please tell me it's not possible to screw myself up this way, so far it looks like I'm going for a true ending.

Oh yeah, and Lance died. Didn't want to reset at that point.

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On March 19, 2018 at 4:31 AM, Garlyle said:

Quick question. I'm up to Chapter 18, bough a bunch of Iron weapons without the Silver card, and I still feel uncomfortable economy-wise.

Please tell me it's not possible to screw myself up this way, so far it looks like I'm going for a true ending.

R.I.P. Chapter 21 Boots.

If you're playing the game casually, there are a lot of valuables that you can obtain in Chapter 20, though some of the items you'd need to steal. Also if you hate yourself and really tight on cash, you could bring a thief to Chapter 21 and attempt to steal Murdock's Knight's Crest.

If you're feeling tight on cash, I'd highly recommend selling the Eclipse tomes you get. They go for 2,000 each (more than the cost of buying a Killing Edge), and it's a really worthless tome. If you're in Ilia you get one in Niime's inventory and in Sacae you may have gotten an additional one from the village in Chapter 17. Also, if you haven't used it already, you also get a Goddess Icon that sells for 4,000.

While buying a bunch of Iron Weapons this late into the game is certainly questionable, I'd say you're probably fine.

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5ab66d1c497d5_0378-FireEmblem-SealedSword_1521904020767.png.c02d8f29505d62f157908940b87fe8e0.png

I dont even know what were those thieves were going for, there was only 1 chest left closed at the other end of the map. They held the door better than my flying tank though.

Bought Silver weapons, I think next map I can use up the Hammer with Gonzales on Teck.

Edited by Garlyle

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