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Why is it that Fire Emblem has more male fans?


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29 minutes ago, edgelordweeaboo said:

One thing you haven't taken into account once in all of this is biology. A major reason why men act masculine outside of the social aspect is because males produce more testosterone. People who say "she was asking for it" or "she's a prude/stuck up bitch" are generally not doing it because of something they saw in a game. They're saying it because they're desperate losers and complete assholes who think they're owed something for existing. Same with the nice guys bullshit. Media really doesn't change people's whole worldview that much either. It does to some extent but in media now men are already shown in many different ways outside of just being hypermasculine. Also it doesn't just end online for all men either.

Testosterone is a bullshit excuse for awful behavior and doesn't get a pass. Men can and should control themselves regardless. Masculinity (which really is Hegemonic Masculinity, as explained a few posts ago) is a social construct put in our heads growing up, and thus a choice. The reason men think they are owed something for existing is because that notion, too, was put in their head, and media plays an essential role in establishing it (and if not in one individual, then certainly those around them, which can also influence them). Entire industries are sustained by these notions, and efforts to deviate from the norms are often met with resistance by those with power (executives, investors) because it is often viewed as high risk/low reward.

Also "yeah but men too sometimes" regarding harassment is a pretty insensitive way of ignoring the massive disparity in gender of victims. Even more to the point, the harassed men are vastly more often minorities, LGTBQ, or some other marginalized/oppressed group.

14 minutes ago, edgelordweeaboo said:

Also what stigma around gaming? If anything people who act like gaming is complete hell for all women and that women aren't allowed in gaming are why it seems like it's become more stigmatized. 

Do you talk to people who aren't gamers? There is a definite stigma, no question about it, and much of it is earned when it comes to online play.

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I kind of wonder if a lack of a female lord being actually represented as the main character for the entire story has something to do with this phenomenon - well, at least barring the female versions of Robin and Corrin. I mean, in terms of story, Lyn, Micaiah, and Celica ends up getting shafted in different ways, while Elliwood/Hector, Ike, and Alm ends up getting the bigger part of the spotlight.

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6 hours ago, Johann said:

Testosterone is a bullshit excuse for awful behavior and doesn't get a pass. Men can and should control themselves regardless. Masculinity (which really is Hegemonic Masculinity, as explained a few posts ago) is a social construct put in our heads growing up, and thus a choice. The reason men think they are owed something for existing is because that notion, too, was put in their head, and media plays an essential role in establishing it (and if not in one individual, then certainly those around them, which can also influence them). Entire industries are sustained by these notions, and efforts to deviate from the norms are often met with resistance by those with power (executives, investors) because it is often viewed as high risk/low reward.

Also "yeah but men too sometimes" regarding harassment is a pretty insensitive way of ignoring the massive disparity in gender of victims. Even more to the point, the harassed men are vastly more often minorities, LGTBQ, or some other marginalized/oppressed group.

Do you talk to people who aren't gamers? There is a definite stigma, no question about it, and much of it is earned when it comes to online play.

You're completely missing the point. Testosterone is a root cause of men acting "masculine". Acting masculine doesn't mean assaulting women and looking for fights and being a violent piece of shit. That would be hypermasculinity like you said before which is caused by a combination of trying to act overly masculine and being a shitty person. The notion that men deserve something for existing is not put into people's head by media. Saying men are victims of harassment too does not undermine female victims of harassment either. I'm just pointing out that it happens because you're completely ignoring it and going on like only women receive harassment and men are untouchable and never are harassed and are constant perpetrators. I'm not just talking about sexual harassment either which women definitely do experience more of than men. I do talk to people who aren't gamers too. Haven't noticed a stigma outside of conservative old people, rednecks, and people who are into identity politics for the most part.

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2 hours ago, edgelordweeaboo said:

You're completely missing the point. Testosterone is a root cause of men acting "masculine". Acting masculine doesn't mean assaulting women and looking for fights and being a violent piece of shit. That would be hypermasculinity like you said before which is caused by a combination of trying to act overly masculine and being a shitty person.

I'm well aware of what testosterone is and does, and I'm not disputing that. I'm saying that negative behavior is controllable and saying "well, it's his nature, he's a man full of testosterone" is not a reason to accept it. A setting where men perceive that they are in competition, even when they really aren't, is going to catalyze that behavior. Changing the perception of men to recognize that they aren't in competition, and that behaving like an asshole is not going to help them, is something media can play a leading role in.

2 hours ago, edgelordweeaboo said:

The notion that men deserve something for existing is not put into people's head by media.

Media and culture in general definitely are responsible for notions like entitlement. Not sure how you intend to dispute that.

2 hours ago, edgelordweeaboo said:

Saying men are victims of harassment too does not undermine female victims of harassment either. I'm just pointing out that it happens because you're completely ignoring it and going on like only women receive harassment and men are untouchable and never are harassed and are constant perpetrators. I'm not just talking about sexual harassment either which women definitely do experience more of than men.

I'm not completely ignoring the fact that men are victims sometimes as well. I'm pointing out that the victims are disproportionally female and the perpetrators are disproportionally men.

2 hours ago, edgelordweeaboo said:

Haven't noticed a stigma outside of conservative old people, rednecks, and people who are into identity politics for the most part.

Google "video games stigma" sometime

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2 minutes ago, Johann said:

I'm well aware of what testosterone is and does, and I'm not disputing that. I'm saying that negative behavior is controllable and saying "well, it's his nature, he's a man full of testosterone" is not a reason to accept it. A setting where men perceive that they are in competition, even when they really aren't, is going to catalyze that behavior. Changing the perception of men to recognize that they aren't in competition, and that behaving like an asshole is not going to help them, is something media can play a leading role in.

Media and culture in general definitely are responsible for notions like entitlement. Not sure how you intend to dispute that.

I'm not completely ignoring the fact that men are victims sometimes as well. I'm pointing out that the victims are disproportionally female and the perpetrators are disproportionally men.

Google "video games stigma" sometime

Just because the media tries to tell men they shouldn't compete with each other doesn't mean they're just going to stop getting competitive. There's nothing inherently wrong with men being competitive either. I never said men having testosterone was a reason to accept shitty behavior either. I said it's the true root of "masculinity". Entitlement often comes from people thinking they're "nice" or "good people" and being desperate pathetic pieces of shit, not the media. Also how people are raised is another major factor in people's behavior and probably makes a larger impression on people than the media they consume. Googling video game stigma doesn't help at all with what you were talking about either. You asked if I talk to people who aren't gamers. I pointed out that yes, I do, and I haven't noticed any sort of stigma when the topic of video games has come up outside of conservative old people, rednecks and people into identity politics. 

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25 minutes ago, edgelordweeaboo said:

Just because the media tries to tell men they shouldn't compete with each other doesn't mean they're just going to stop getting competitive. There's nothing inherently wrong with men being competitive either. I never said men having testosterone was a reason to accept shitty behavior either. I said it's the true root of "masculinity". Entitlement often comes from people thinking they're "nice" or "good people" and being desperate pathetic pieces of shit, not the media. Also how people are raised is another major factor in people's behavior and probably makes a larger impression on people than the media they consume.

First off, it's true, there's nothing inherently wrong with competition or being competitive. It's when people go to far with it and engage in destructive behavior. Society is the true root of masculinity because it's a social construct, not a biological one. Secondly, media doesn't necessarily explicitly tell people things, but rather it shows things that change the way people see the world, even if subconsciously.

Media is culture, how people are raised is culture, and they are intertwined. People can choose who they pay attention to, but there's no avoiding the effects media has on their perception unless they are completely avoiding it altogether. Who we are, whether we're "nice" or "good people" or "desperate pieces of shit", isn't hardwired into our brains from birth. It's developed and reinforced by social interactions, expectations, and experiences (which includes media, art, etc).

35 minutes ago, edgelordweeaboo said:

Googling video game stigma doesn't help at all with what you were talking about either. You asked if I talk to people who aren't gamers. I pointed out that yes, I do, and I haven't noticed any sort of stigma when the topic of video games has come up outside of conservative old people, rednecks and people into identity politics. 

You said "what stigma around gaming?" earlier and talk like there's no stigma. Googling it makes it so I don't have to explain something so universal.

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3 hours ago, Johann said:

First off, it's true, there's nothing inherently wrong with competition or being competitive. It's when people go to far with it and engage in destructive behavior. Society is the true root of masculinity because it's a social construct, not a biological one. Secondly, media doesn't necessarily explicitly tell people things, but rather it shows things that change the way people see the world, even if subconsciously.

Media is culture, how people are raised is culture, and they are intertwined. People can choose who they pay attention to, but there's no avoiding the effects media has on their perception unless they are completely avoiding it altogether. Who we are, whether we're "nice" or "good people" or "desperate pieces of shit", isn't hardwired into our brains from birth. It's developed and reinforced by social interactions, expectations, and experiences (which includes media, art, etc).

You said "what stigma around gaming?" earlier and talk like there's no stigma. Googling it makes it so I don't have to explain something so universal.

Seeing things in media may influence a person if they're extremely young and impressionable. Overall influence from actual people around us is going to have more of an influence, especially people we trust. How people are raised is separate from media. How people act is shaped a lot more by real life experiences. 

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6 hours ago, edgelordweeaboo said:

Seeing things in media may influence a person if they're extremely young and impressionable. Overall influence from actual people around us is going to have more of an influence, especially people we trust. How people are raised is separate from media. How people act is shaped a lot more by real life experiences. 

Here, watch more stuff

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6 hours ago, edgelordweeaboo said:

Seeing things in media may influence a person if they're extremely young and impressionable. Overall influence from actual people around us is going to have more of an influence, especially people we trust. How people are raised is separate from media. How people act is shaped a lot more by real life experiences. 

Modern media influences everyone at every age, and does so with a stronger impact than the vast majority of our personal relationships do. The two also become one as soon as you hop online.

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9 hours ago, a bear said:

Modern media influences everyone at every age, and does so with a stronger impact than the vast majority of our personal relationships do. The two also become one as soon as you hop online.

if this is the case that's a surprise to me. i guess this is only my experience but nearly everyone i know if i've met their parents seem to take after their parents a lot. i don't really see as much of the influence of media on them for how they act outside of if they really look up to someone like a musician or celebrity or whatever. people might be influenced by people they look up to but i don't think people are in general just influenced by media

 

9 hours ago, Johann said:

why? it's just a fucking movie

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2 hours ago, edgelordweeaboo said:

if this is the case that's a surprise to me. i guess this is only my experience but nearly everyone i know if i've met their parents seem to take after their parents a lot. i don't really see as much of the influence of media on them for how they act outside of if they really look up to someone like a musician or celebrity or whatever. people might be influenced by people they look up to but i don't think people are in general just influenced by media

Remember that the definition of media goes beyond news (which is VERY influential) and books/shows/music/games/etc. Anything on Facebook or Reddit or whatever sites you happen to enjoy are part of it too. I doubt you'll be able to find anyone who's been less influenced by media than any other thing in their life other than isolated tribesfolk.

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On 12/8/2017 at 1:30 PM, Johann said:

You misunderstand me. First off, males are not inherently more interested in games. Games are regularly being designed with stereotypical straight males in mind. Everyone loves games because games are fun, and everyone loves fun. But people won't play a game that doesn't suit their tastes. The industry is largely unwilling to branch out beyond the misconception that only males are going to be interested, and so they are perpetuating the notion by only catering to certain males. This is a terrible shame since it stunts gaming as a whole, both artistically and economically.

Older Fire Emblem games are universally less popular primarily due to reasons like difficulty and availability.

You're looking at the symptom here, not the cause. It's a self-perpetuating thing and by embracing it as a boy's club is making it worse. Not to mention, games were initially popular with everybody, and still are. Here, watch some stuff.

Absolutely agree; with this in particular, but also the rest of your posts.

Incidentally, my SIL worked as a writer for games for a decade, and everything she has to say about the industry makes it sound as if it reflects many online gaming communities, only amplified 10x. Absolutely incredible amounts of sexism and abuse - not just aimed at women, but also at gay men or men who dare to side with women/gay men. So you also have a hyper-masculine industry that is unwilling to branch out not just because media tells them that women aren't interested, but because they themselves simply don't want to cater at all to women. 

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2 hours ago, Johann said:

The contents of the video are applicable to our discussion. Watch it.

the movie basically takes "masculine" things and then then exaggerates the shit out of them and has a bunch of men fighting in a secret fight club while trying to act super macho. it's not a reflection of how society really is or how the average man is. also what is this straight "white" male shit? are people who aren't white just immune to "toxic masculinity" or displaying behaviors of "toxic masculinity"? in all this shit, this video, your posts it's specified that it's just straight "white" male toxic masculinity? what does any of this have to do with race whatsoever? race is completely unrelated to any of this. you could argue different cultures in different parts of the world make a difference but absolutely not race.

Edited by edgelordweeaboo
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3 hours ago, edgelordweeaboo said:

for not taking interest in over analyzing movies?

Believing that media is a lesser influence in people's lives and saying something like, "It's just a fucking movie" are pretty telltale signs. And also, yes, the fact that you think the linked video is over-analyzing.

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4 hours ago, edgelordweeaboo said:

the movie basically takes "masculine" things and then then exaggerates the shit out of them and has a bunch of men fighting in a secret fight club while trying to act super macho. it's not a reflection of how society really is or how the average man is.

It's too bad that you won't watch the video, because it contains a number of valuable insights which would be useful in understanding so many aspects of society. You also seem to not be aware how much of a cultural impact Fight Club had (guess where the term "snowflake" as an insult came from and why it managed to catch on?), or its original intent.

4 hours ago, edgelordweeaboo said:

also what is this straight "white" male shit? are people who aren't white just immune to "toxic masculinity" or displaying behaviors of "toxic masculinity"? in all this shit, this video, your posts it's specified that it's just straight "white" male toxic masculinity? what does any of this have to do with race whatsoever? race is completely unrelated to any of this. you could argue different cultures in different parts of the world make a difference but absolutely not race.

I didn't say anything about race other than that minorities are statistically more often targets for, well, pretty much everything. Racism and hypermasculinity have a common element in that they are both about power & control over others.

Edited by Johann
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18 hours ago, Res said:

Incidentally, my SIL worked as a writer for games for a decade, and everything she has to say about the industry makes it sound as if it reflects many online gaming communities, only amplified 10x. Absolutely incredible amounts of sexism and abuse - not just aimed at women, but also at gay men or men who dare to side with women/gay men. So you also have a hyper-masculine industry that is unwilling to branch out not just because media tells them that women aren't interested, but because they themselves simply don't want to cater at all to women. 

It's terrible your SIL had to bear that for 10 years. I've heard this about the tech industry in general, but it seems particularly bad in the games industry. Heteronormative men have apparently established masculine bubbles and don't want to see them rocked or "invaded". I imagine it's why the glass ceiling is still a problem.

I think this was more apparent in smaller companies, but when I was briefly in insurance qualified women were routinely interviewed and invariably passed over for executive positions because they didn't fit the "company culture"... which was just code for "we wouldn't feel as comfortable hanging out at the pub with them after work". It was a lame excuse to peddle the myth they supported equal opportunity while actively working against it. And then some people go on to claim women don't want those jobs anyways... it's hypocritical and absurd.

Edited by lyscalibur
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8 hours ago, Johann said:

It's too bad that you won't watch the video, because it contains a number of valuable insights which would be useful in understanding so many aspects of society. You also seem to not be aware how much of a cultural impact Fight Club had (guess where the term "snowflake" as an insult came from and why it managed to catch on?), or its original intent.

I didn't say anything about race other than that minorities are statistically more often targets for, well, pretty much everything. Racism and hypermasculinity have a common element in that they are both about power & control over others.

no, you've said in almost every one of your posts specifically straight white male. do you claim that only white men exhibit "hypermasculinity" and racism/sexism? 

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59 minutes ago, edgelordweeaboo said:

no, you've said in almost every one of your posts specifically straight white male. do you claim that only white men exhibit "hypermasculinity" and racism/sexism? 

A quick Ctrl-F analysis shows that Johann used the word "white" exactly twice in this thread - once speculating that you are white, once citing a source. Don't make shit up.

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Guys, just ignore edgelord. It should be obvious by his name he's either incredibly stupid, special needs, a troll, or any combination of the three. Trying to convince him of anything is as pointless as trying to have a conversation with a brick.

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I'm sure that someone has pointed it out already, but I genuinely don't think that this is necessarily true anymore.

I think the balance has shifted to more female over time, largely due to the most recent games.

Most fire emblem fans I know are female, as opposed to most general video game fans I know being male.

But yeah, if it is still true, then the only real reason is because video gaming has historically been mostly male and male-oriented.

That said, there is are now entire genres of female oriented-gaming. The fairly obvious otome genre is a great example. (And annoyingly well represented on iphones as opposed to male games. Seriously, Amnesia and Hakuoki are available, but Stein's;Gate and 999 aren't? That's not fair!)

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5 hours ago, ping said:

A quick Ctrl-F analysis shows that Johann used the word "white" exactly twice in this thread - once speculating that you are white, once citing a source. Don't make shit up.

he quoted a youtuber and in the text it specifically mentioned "white western manhood". I didn't remember this being a quote. my bad. 

 

2 hours ago, RedRob said:

Guys, just ignore edgelord. It should be obvious by his name he's either incredibly stupid, special needs, a troll, or any combination of the three. Trying to convince him of anything is as pointless as trying to have a conversation with a brick.

the origin of the name comes from when i made my osu account and i thought "everyone who plays this game is an edgelord weeaboo and i kinda like anime and metal music so i'll name myself edgelordweeb and it stuck. not sure how my name makes me any of the things you listed except for maybe a troll. that or you saw the weeb part and just thought "yup special needs" because i could definitely see that one too

Edited by edgelordweeaboo
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