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Which Fire emblem game has the best cast of characters? Personality wise.


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On 12/26/2017 at 12:36 PM, Thane said:

Sacred Stones - Pretty solid. Joshua, Knoll, Duessel, Lyon, etc. are all strong characters with interesting arcs. There are a few guys I always forget about, but really, that is to be expected. Minus points for the two most boring lords in the series though.

With all due respect, I cannot agree with considering Lyon a "strong character" - I felt most everything to do with him was dumb. Hell, I said in another thread that if they want to make another tragic villain, I don't want them handled as ineptly as Lyon was.

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On 12/20/2017 at 11:05 AM, Erureido said:

Of the games I played, my personal pick for best cast would go to Shadows of Valentia. While there aren't that many support conversations in the game, what we learn about the characters through their supports and base conversations made them quite likable with personalities that I found charming. While there are a few characters that stick out like a sore thumb like Faye and a few meh characters like Deen, Nomah, and Palla, I pretty much liked the entire cast.The stellar voice acting also helped bring most of these characters much more to life. 

For the worst cast... this is going to be a controversial pick, but I'm giving this one to the Conquest cast from Fates. Honestly, there are very few characters that I liked or cared for in that route. The only ones I genuinely like now are Support!Xander (the only Nohrian royal I'm fond of for that matter), Laslow, Niles, Arthur, Benny, Charlotte, and Ignatius. The rest of its characters are those that I don't care for (like Leo, Beruka, Effie, Odin, and most of the Conquest children), as well as many characters that I don't like (namely Peri, Story!Xander, Camilla, Elise, Selena, Nyx, Keaton, Velouria, Soleil, and a few others). Many of the Conquest characters simply don't have personality traits or characterization that I found to be charming or things that resonated with me. Many of them just make me go "meh" and roll my eyes or others simply frustrated me with the things they do.

Actually, looking back at my post, I realized I forgot to take the villains into account.

The villains in Conquest were just poor. Garon, Iago, and Hans were classic Saturday morning cartoon villains who acted like puppy-kickers most of the time. Then there's Takumi. He would've been a good villain in Conquest if it wasn't for Anankos possessing him and being justified as the "source" of his hatred, when Takumi had perfectly good reasons to hate Corrin on his own. Zola had some potential with his idea of ending the war sooner than it should, but too bad he was killed shortly after.

As for Shadows of Valentia, there are another group of characters that I forgot to list as those that "stick out like a sore thumb": the villains. They are nowhere as bad as the Fates villains and the majority of the Awakening villains, but at best, the SoV villains are largely mediocre and meh.

First are Slayde and Desaix, dull Saturday morning cartoon villains who basically crave power with not much going for them. Then you have Jedah, a villain who at first has sympathetic reasons for wanting Duma to regain his sanity but then he falls flat when he gets so overtly evil (not to mention an overtop villain design) that it becomes too hard to sympathize with him. Rudolph is just a mixed bag. He has moments when he was sympathetic, like that one Memory Prism and learning that he looked after Zeke like a father, but his goal is so flawed with many holes that it raises eyebrows. Meanwhile, Nuibaba was just wasted-potential overall when she had the potential to do more.

Then we have Fernand and Berkut. Oh boy, those two. Fernand has a solid portrayal in the DLC, but he still falls flat in terms when it comes to sympathetic character. He takes his hatred for commoners to a total extreme that he comes across as a major asshole and thus not someone deserving of sympathy. As for Berkut, he has the makings to be a tragic, humanized character considering how he was raised into thinking he needed to be strong, but in the end, he's not that great. We are never shown his accomplishments, and most of the time we just see his failures and him treating Rinea like crap. It's no surprise from reasons like those that some fans call Berkut "a whiny manchild."

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Oh well, let's see...

SoV's VA-cast did a fantastic job bringing our "one-line-heroes" from OG gaiden to life. This cast has become one of the most likable (my honorable mentions are: python, saber, gray, mae, genny and sonya).

However the best cast imo has Sacred Stones. Thanks to a ton of beautiful written support conversations it has also become easily my favorite FE title. To underline this I would like to list several conversations that come immediately in mind:

Artur x Lute, Innes x Joshua, Gerik x Saleh, Ewan x Dozla, L'Arachel x Joshua, Tethys x Artur, Gerik x Tethys, Gerik x Ross, Ross x Ewan, Gilliam x Syrene, Vanessa x Innes,... and so on.

Too many to list I guess. Especially the older characteres like moulder or duessel tend to lead into very interesting conversations. Sadly Fe13 & 14 shifted away from those or were very limited in their supports. Gregor is a very important addition to awakening's cast. And then we have candidates like fuga, yukimura, gunther (story excluded) and shura getting only corrinsexual supports.

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On 12/24/2017 at 9:03 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

think that has a lot to do with the style of storytelling the game uses. Binding blade is still chained to the old model used in Shadow dragon and Genealogy where most cutscenes are just the lord talking with his adviser in the most recently conquered castle. The presentation is kinda stale because of it.

Ah that style of presentation, not a big fan of it. Can't comment on SoV (which sounds okay on this front) or Fates (which sounds terrible), but Awakening was okay in this matter with Robin, Lucina, Frederick and the Khans adding to it.

But really I'm unabashedly most fond of RD, P3 to be precise. You get full fledged war room meetings long before an actual battle unfolds, with a relatively ensemble cast of Ike, Soren, Titania, Skrimir, Ranulf, Tibarn, and sometimes others, each contributing something distinct and meaningful (or at least justified in why they're there) to the conversation. Part 1 and Part 4 are very similar, just not quite as grand. The cast almost feels ensemble-like, which might be better for FE than a lone lord almighty. 

I'd say PoR and FE7 fall into a middle ground. Fewer characters in the storytelling than RD, but more than SD/Binding/Genealogy. Lyn is kinda irrelevant, and Ninian is a walking trope done unoriginally, but overall its decent. PoR- Soren is a little too sharp, and Ike a little too bland, but again it works (and this is the game that gave us the unprecedented Jill character arc).

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On 12/20/2017 at 2:30 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Worst cast is Shadow Dragon, EASILY. Simply put, thanks to the lack of supports, it's cast is dominated by blank slates and as a result, it's hard to identify with anyone since there's nothing to identify with or appreciate. Sacred Stones's cast wasn't much better (I could count the number of characters that aren't forgettable on one hand), as was Genealogy (waaaaaaay too many characters I feel indifferent to at best, and dislike outright at worst).

As far as best cast, that's tougher. Though I'm going to say SoV.

Taking a look at this, I didn't take SS's villains into account...

...And frankly, the villains in said game were rather poor. Glen and Duessel were both respectable, but it's just downhill from there - Riev is pretty much your typical evil sorcerer du jour, other than his class. Caellach is power-hungry, and... that's pretty much all there is to note about him. Valter is a budget Kefka - aka, completely insane. Orson flips too quickly, and is also underdeveloped, with only like two appearances before you fight him, and in the chapter where you fight him, it's revealed he went full-on depraved monster. Lyon is just a half-hearted attempt at a tragic villain, thanks to the game's haphazard writing, and thus he fails to come off as sympathetic or tragic (or at least as sympathetic or tragic as he should've been, which is a crying shame because he ends up being even more wasted potential). Selena's meh. Vigarde's pretty much the typical evil emperor, other than the fact that he was already dead (to be fair, though, evil empires are a cliché that tends to show up often in FE games).

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Fire Emblem 7 by far personally just so many characters are well written I do admit there are some weak characters but even characters like Vaida has better supports than 30% of the Fates cast

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On 12/10/2017 at 4:47 PM, Ronnie said:

If we're talking personalities then Awakening and Conquest is filled to the brim with colorful characters.

In terms of backstory and all that other stuff, I can't say since I only beat the 3DS titles.

Please beat literally any other FE game

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51 minutes ago, Luis Liberato said:

Please beat literally any other FE game

Not a fan of playing emulators or fan translations. Tellius games are expensive as hell. Only thing I can play is 7 and 8.

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19 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Taking a look at this, I didn't take SS's villains into account...

...And frankly, the villains in said game were rather poor. Glen and Duessel were both respectable, but it's just downhill from there - Riev is pretty much your typical evil sorcerer du jour, other than his class. Caellach is power-hungry, and... that's pretty much all there is to note about him. Valter is a budget Kefka - aka, completely insane. Orson flips too quickly, and is also underdeveloped, with only like two appearances before you fight him, and in the chapter where you fight him, it's revealed he went full-on depraved monster. Lyon is just a half-hearted attempt at a tragic villain, thanks to the game's haphazard writing, and thus he fails to come off as sympathetic or tragic (or at least as sympathetic or tragic as he should've been, which is a crying shame because he ends up being even more wasted potential). Selena's meh. Vigarde's pretty much the typical evil emperor, other than the fact that he was already dead (to be fair, though, evil empires are a cliché that tends to show up often in FE games).

Since you decided to look back on your old post and factor the SS villains into your opinions on the casts you mentioned, do you have anything to say about the Shadow Dragon's, Geneaology's, and Shadows of Valentia's villains and how they add/degrade to the cast of characters of those games? Do you think Shadow Dragon's villains are just as blank slates as the SD playable characters, and the Genealogy villains just as meh as the playable characters from their game too?  Do you think Shadows of Valentia's villains are just as enjoyable as the playable cast?

Just curious.

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Sacred Stones has the best cast by far personality wise, each character is expanded upon pretty well through their supports (though some of the villains such as Lyon are pretty ehh). Blazing Sword and Path of Radiance come next imo (though Radiant Dawn falls short since that support system is shitty so you hardly know anything about the DB and newer characters such as Kyza and Lyre).

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16 hours ago, Erureido said:

Since you decided to look back on your old post and factor the SS villains into your opinions on the casts you mentioned, do you have anything to say about the Shadow Dragon's, Geneaology's, and Shadows of Valentia's villains and how they add/degrade to the cast of characters of those games? Do you think Shadow Dragon's villains are just as blank slates as the SD playable characters, and the Genealogy villains just as meh as the playable characters from their game too?  Do you think Shadows of Valentia's villains are just as enjoyable as the playable cast?

Just curious.

I don't really feel up to it - I singled SS out on account of being more familiar with it than the others (haven't played SoV, washed my hands of SD long ago, and I plan to stay as far away from Jugdral as humanly possible; about the only thing that could make me pay any attention to it is a remake... Which I don't trust IS to not bungle).

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2 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I don't really feel up to it - I singled SS out on account of being more familiar with it than the others (haven't played SoV, washed my hands of SD long ago, and I plan to stay as far away from Jugdral as humanly possible; about the only thing that could make me pay any attention to it is a remake... Which I don't trust IS to not bungle).

So you picked SoV for having the best cast... even though you haven't played the game yet.

That's... a bit odd. Wouldn't it be better to judge SoV's cast after you played the game? Because it's possible your opinions on a certain characters may not necessarily be the same as others have after playing it. 

Like, I haven't played the Tellius series, and while I have heard a lot of good things about the casts of its two games, I wouldn't just jump on the bandwagon right away and pick it as my favorite cast because I don't have much of an opinion on its characters due to not playing those games yet to gain an accurate opinion on them.

Though if you looked up all/most of the support+base conversations online for most of the SoV characters and some story spoilers here and there to understand some of the villains and how the playable characters contribute to the plot, then I can see where you are coming from.

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On 12/28/2017 at 7:44 AM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

With all due respect, I cannot agree with considering Lyon a "strong character" - I felt most everything to do with him was dumb. Hell, I said in another thread that if they want to make another tragic villain, I don't want them handled as ineptly as Lyon was.

On 1/2/2018 at 11:03 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Taking a look at this, I didn't take SS's villains into account...

...And frankly, the villains in said game were rather poor. Glen and Duessel were both respectable, but it's just downhill from there - Riev is pretty much your typical evil sorcerer du jour, other than his class. Caellach is power-hungry, and... that's pretty much all there is to note about him. Valter is a budget Kefka - aka, completely insane. Orson flips too quickly, and is also underdeveloped, with only like two appearances before you fight him, and in the chapter where you fight him, it's revealed he went full-on depraved monster. Lyon is just a half-hearted attempt at a tragic villain, thanks to the game's haphazard writing, and thus he fails to come off as sympathetic or tragic (or at least as sympathetic or tragic as he should've been, which is a crying shame because he ends up being even more wasted potential). Selena's meh. Vigarde's pretty much the typical evil emperor, other than the fact that he was already dead (to be fair, though, evil empires are a cliché that tends to show up often in FE games).

Okay, I'm going to have to heavily disagree with you as I feel you are giving Sacred Stone's cast a disservice, especially when saying someone like Lyon isn't a strong character in being a tragic antagonist despite the twists and turns he has have happened in his life as shown in the flashbacks and his relationship with the Renais twins with not just his admiration of them, but his hidden insecurities in not feeling worthy to stand beside them. I felt for him when he died so tragically, especially even despite it all his country still has the earthquake he sought so desperately to prevent and at the end game credits it was a sucker punch in the heart seeing his first meeting with Ephraim and Eirika in gaining friends that he loved. 

The game has a strong overall cast due to the fact because it's short one like SoV's playable cast (preferred Celica's party mainly or even Awakening and Conquest's playable casts which I happen to like as well) it doesn't suffer the many issues a game with a large cast like Blazing Blade or Radiant Dawn having go with on for their part. Though granted RD's case because some of the characters don't have much needed supports like Shadow Dragon's cast or just that pre-existing characters don't have anymore of a character arc because they're finished hence why some people complain about Ike but some are lucky like Rolf who gets further development given the case with his mother finishing his arc for good unlike somebody like Mia who could never find her white clad rival who has been part of her character motivation making her feel incomplete and heck I like her still, but I would have much more if it had been completed.

I will however agree with you on Riev, but only because it seems more so his role is to make the other two bad Grado generals stand out more or give more insight into them. However, at the very least given his arcehtype with characters like Judah and Validar his motivation is better because you have to take in mind he was cast out of his country, so I would say he's the worst of them, but not the best of them neither. He ends up being the foil to Dussel given that they both end up being both abandon by their homelands to fight for the opposite side against each other.

Speaking of which Sacred Stones ends up having the most of foil pairs from what I've seen throughout FE with examples like Lyon to Eirika/Ephraim and Seth to Orson/Carlyle. Here's a quote I have in replying to someone in Valter's defense (along with the some other foils):

 

"I'm going to have to respectfully challenge that about Valter because while true there is more to it than that. However first of all to get it out of the way Sacred Stones overall antagonists cast has a lot more character that stands out because I think it says something when even a minor antagonist like Carlyle can leave a impression and as mentioned Orson too with how he's written in displaying how despair can shape men who have lost what they loved and essentially even fought for. Sacred Stones easily has more good villains/antagonists than any other FE game in my eyes of the localized games. A large reason I like the Grado generals is that they to act as foils off each other and here are the pairs that are foils:

Glen/Valter

Selena/Caellach - Both are the least extreme of their own general triad (Selena had doubts about Grado but remained loyal, unlike Duessel and Glen; Caellach is a bastard, but Valter and Riev are both monsters). Selena is extremely loyal to Vigarde, while Caellach is The Starscream and mocks him whenever he can get away with it.

Duessel/Riev - Both are loyal to their lords (Vigarde and Lyon) as long as they agree with their Lord's ideals (Lyon simply hides his true nature in Ephraim's route, while Vigarde doesn't), both abandon their homeland (Grado and Rausten) to fight for the opposite side against each other.  

 

Now then in regards to Valter. The reason why he's one of my favorite villains in the series is because sure he's evil, but there is depth to his madness in how he's a example of men in war and just how it can shape them to be at their worse.

 

In quoting Riev: Ah, Valter... You're a beast. You're bound to no country. You care nothing for friend or foe. Kill a man, claim a woman... You live for nothing more, you wretched beast. That's your strength. That's what makes you stronger than any man alive. A beast acts without remorse. Man's morality cannot win. It's nature's way...

 

Riev is saying that Valter had to become or rather adapt to what he has become in order to survive. Valter from the beginning was no gentle lamb as Duessel puts it, but at the very least still human in having some kind of morality. From the very moment Valter picked up Duessel's family Cursed Lance was the moment the darkness within him was brought to light letting go of what held him back and to let loose into the madness that he succumbed to his bloodlust. The thing about it is that Valter probably had no choice in the matter as they were in a battle and seeing as how his lance broke he needed a nearby one as soon as possible to fight with so he may live. 

Valter is so steeped in madness that he over the course of the game tries to make it so the war continues as long as it can with no end not wanting any peace to happen to ruin his thrill for mayhem and this is what makes him a unsettling villain. He allows for Eirika to escape at the first encounter and he does in fact allow Ephraim to escape during his castle raid, he isn't bluffing when he mentions it when they both fight and it would certainly all the more explain how Ephraim managed to escape unscathed when he should have been captured. He tricks Selena to return to Grado and kills Glen because it would to be far too quick and easy to have the game end Heh heh… Stupid woman. If Grado wins too easily, there’ll be no more bloodshed. We must do what we can to extend the fun… I believe it’s time for me to return to my darling Eirika. It wouldn't do for Glen to arrive before me, would it? and finally just his downright obsession with Eirika was disturbing not as disturbing with Orson with his deceased wife, but unsettling nonetheless.

Overall this is why Valter the Dark Moonstone is one of my favorite FE villains in the series in making him stand out."

The Grado generals being foils off their respective counterpart is even highlighted from their first interaction with each other when the three new ones are brought to the fold which makes for a nicely presented foreshadowing.

Moving from Valter I'll now discuss what makes Carlyle a good villain. Carlyle ends up being a good villain because we see what lengths he'll go to to make sure he can make his dream a reality. Out of the bad Grado general trio he's the least extreme, but it's because in part he still has some portion of humanity in him as demonstrated in his relationship with Joshua on Ephraim's route or when he's with company like Riev and Valter he is shown to have even some standards as he views them as despicable, just that he'll do whatever it takes and will throw out those standards if it comes to it such as with him killing Joshua's mother Ismaire despite saying he doesn't want to hurt/kill a woman but to his credit he did try to talk her down and give her a chance to live or even his own subordinate/old mercenary companion Aias as he doesn't want to be chained by his past holding him back from becoming a king. It just displays how much he'll do whatever it takes to reach out and grab hold of his future. Caellach is how you do a character who is motivated in trying to grasp a better life for themselves given their poor background with the cards in their hand they were dealt with a whole lot better than that horrible mess Hans. He follows in line with a similarly well received character like Shinon both of them being jerkasses. So no he isn't just a power hungry character, he's a power hungry character with motivation all the while still being human making him feel real.

 

I'll follow up more with Lyon, Ephraim and Eirika (anyone else I can think of) when I get the chance, but a theme I really appreciate from Sacred Stones is that what its story does so well is how it shows you just how tragic war can be and how it affects everyone involved in it and how it changes them to becoming a worse off irredeemable person (Valter and Caellach) or a much better person (Ephraim and Eirika) or if not bringing out repressed feelings of themselves they never expected seeing themselves do or even their own friends/allies in becomingwretched souls (Lyon, Orson and Carlyle).

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On 3-1-2018 at 5:03 AM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Riev is pretty much your typical evil sorcerer du jour, other than his class

He is but I don't think that's much of a problem with Riev. 

Riev is like one of one of the blander Gharnef types like Validar and Gharnef but that's never a problem because unlike those two the story never requires Riev to have any relevance he can't back up. He's not the main villain, the genius puppet master or the villain most frequently encountered by the hero. He's just an evil priest who stays in the shadows or at Lyon's side. He's there to suggest something more is going on and to increase the size of the villain roster.  

 

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Drats, can't edit my previous post when I meant to say after mentioning Valter was instead Caellach not Carlyle.

@Etrurian emperor Exactly, I put him above the likes of Validar, Iago and Judah, but even then that's not much of a compliment given the archetype is rather meh all things considered. But he does his role quite fine in being the supporting character in making the other villains shine I will say and his motivation is better than other Gharnefs like him (or in having a lack there of it). 

Edited by AbsoluteZer0Nova
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7 hours ago, AbsoluteZer0Nova said:

Drats, can't edit my previous post when I meant to say after mentioning Valter was instead Caellach not Carlyle.

@Etrurian emperor Exactly, I put him above the likes of Validar, Iago and Judah, but even then that's not much of a compliment given the archetype is rather meh all things considered. But he does his role quite fine in being the supporting character in making the other villains shine I will say and his motivation is better than other Gharnefs like him (or in having a lack there of it). 

There are some good Gharnefs like Nergal, Lyon, Manfroy and Izuka if he counts. Its only after the Tellius games that they stopped putting any effort into characters of this archtype for some weird reason. Jedah ranks somewhere in the middle, he's kinda generic but he got some things going for him too like a solid motive and actually being kinda selfless in his own weird and creepy little way. 

Its easy dismissing the archtype after Valider and after FE Warriors drag the very worst of the bunch into the game but to me those three represent a downgrade rather then an embodiment of the archtype. 

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4 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Its easy dismissing the archtype after Valider and after FE Warriors drag the very worst of the bunch into the game but to me those three represent a downgrade rather then an embodiment of the archtype. 

Something about the way you say that REALLY bothers me...

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3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Something about the way you say that REALLY bothers me...

Oh? I don't think there's anything particularly controversial about naming Validar and Iago that way. Gharnef might not be placed as low by some but I never saw much hardcore fans of him either. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor
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Just now, Etrurian emperor said:

Oh? I don't think there's anything particularly controversial about naming Validar and Iago that way. Gharnef might not be placed as low by others but I never saw much hardcore fans of him either. 

Sorry, it just sounded like you were talking about the entire cast of the Warriors game. 

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Just now, omegaxis1 said:

Sorry, it just sounded like you were talking about the entire cast of the Warriors game. 

Nope, just their Gharnef villains. The cast has its troubles but a lot of choices were probably the best they could have made when it comes to the three chosen games, even if several others in it clearly aren't. Aside from missing the kinda obligatory Tharja Awakening's cast choices are really solid for instance. To many royals is a valid criticism for Fates but there really wasn't a way around characters like Xander and Takumi either. Taking all the royals wasn't a good choice since Hinoka technically wasn't needed and the little sisters were kinda redundant but at least everyone who had to be there was there. 

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1 minute ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Nope, just their Gharnef villains. The cast has its troubles but a lot of choices were probably the best they could have made when it comes to the three chosen games, even if several others in it clearly aren't. Aside from missing the kinda obligatory Tharja Awakening's cast choices are really solid for instance. To many royals is a valid criticism for Fates but there really wasn't a way around characters like Xander and Takumi either. Taking all the royals wasn't a good choice since Hinoka technically wasn't needed and the little sisters were kinda redundant but at least everyone who had to be there was there. 

Tharja's in the DLC, though. Just like how Azura was, despite how she should have been in the game. 

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Just now, omegaxis1 said:

Tharja's in the DLC, though. Just like how Azura was, despite how she should have been in the game. 

They are but I don't give them much props for that. DLC is for fanservice and interesting new additions. Necessities belong in the main game and with her prominence in the story Azura is clearly a necessity. While I don't particularly like Tharja myself I'd say her popularity and status makes her a necessity too. If those two were swapped out for the little sisters who I view more as fanservice or nice extra's instead of necessities then it would already be a lot better. 

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9 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

They are but I don't give them much props for that. DLC is for fanservice and interesting new additions. Necessities belong in the main game and with her prominence in the story Azura is clearly a necessity. While I don't particularly like Tharja myself I'd say her popularity and status makes her a necessity too. If those two were swapped out for the little sisters who I view more as fanservice or nice extra's instead of necessities then it would already be a lot better. 

Yeah, Elise and Sakura REALLY don't feel like they should have been playable at all.

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