Askr trio upgrade speculations

[Tenzen12]

Basically putting aside possibility Sharena, Alfonse and Anna get forgotten forever, what kind of upgrade they need and which they are likely get?

[Hilda]

They need a weapon upgrade.

Noatun (Anna): Escape Route 3 + Desperation
Fensalir (Sharena): Atk Ploy 3 + Spd Ploy 3
Folkvangr (Alfonse): Brazen Atk/Def 3 + Wo dao effect

Wishfull thinking:
They also get a promotion with a stat boost in BST but that will most likely never happen.

 

[Humanoid]

It'll turn out that the December Legendary Heroes Banner is just Fjorm, Alfonse, Sharena and Anna.

[Prince Endriu]

They need merges for a better arena score

[Tenzen12]

 Anna (Noatun) ER2 -> ER3 + "Trigger +1 per attack"

Alphonse (Folkvangr) DfA2 ->DfA3 + DC

Sharena (Horse + Fensalir) ThA2 -> ThA3 + ThS3

How does that sound?

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Tenzen12

[Zapp Branniglenn]

40 minutes ago, Hilda said:

They need a weapon upgrade.

Noatun (Anna): Escape Route 3 + Desperation
Fensalir (Sharena): Atk Ploy 3 + Spd Ploy 3
Folkvangr (Alfonse): Brazen Atk/Def 3 + Wo dao effect

Wishfull thinking:
They also get a promotion with a stat boost in BST but that will most likely never happen.

 

Sharena's base res is 22. Did you mean Threaten Attack and Speed?

[NegativeExponents-]

They definitely need weapon upgrades and additional copies for merges

BST boost is nice but Heroes has yet to boost the stats of characters that are already in the game. If they ever get stats boosted, it’ll probably be an alt. version of the characters rather than the characters themselves

[Tenzen12]

Trio could get stat boost equal of merge, or even right down +1, BST would rise along with that wouldn't it?

[NegativeExponents-]

@Tenzen12 I’m not quite sure what you mean. Are you saying the should just automatically be given a +1 boost? That would be interesting. They could probably do that through story events I suppose.

[Tenzen12]

Yes, that's basic idea, they would get merge (or equal status boost) and forging option would unlock for them via story mode.

It would be interesting if they were sole characters that could reclass, though that's but stretch atm.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Tenzen12

[XRay]

3 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

Basically putting aside possibility Sharena, Alfonse and Anna get forgotten forever, what kind of upgrade they need and which they are likely get?

 

2 hours ago, Hilda said:

They need a weapon upgrade.

...

They also get a promotion with a stat boost in BST but that will most likely never happen.

 

I agree that they need to update their Weapons and get a BST boost.

However, for the Weapon Refinement, I prefer them to focus on their gimmicky niche builds so that their gimmicks are so useful that it may be considered viable, or at the very least fun or useful for non-competitive content.

Fólkvanger [Always defiantly awesome, just do NOT panic!]:  Grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+7 at start of turn.
Fensalir [Make Threatens great again.]:  Inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res-7 on foes within 3 spaces through their next actions at the start of each turn.
Nóatún [Give Elise Candlelight+ on a Defense team.]: Unit may move adjacent to any ally. Infantry and armored allies can move to a space adjacent to unit.

[Vaximillian]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Fensalir [Make Threatens great again.]:  Inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res-7 on foes within 3 spaces through their next actions at the start of each turn.

Sharena is so friendly and kind-hearted that no one wants to fight her :3

[XRay]

3 hours ago, Vaximillian said:

Sharena is so friendly and kind-hearted that no one wants to fight her :3

Oh! I know!

Fensalir [Make Threatens Sharena great again!]:  Inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res-7 on foes within 3 spaces through their next actions at the start of each turn. Inflicts status on foes within 3 spaces of preventing counterattacks through their next actions at the start of each turn.

It is totally not broken.

Edit: Might as well give the other two more powerful effects:

Fólkvanger [Bladeblade]:  Grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+7 at start of turn. Panic effect is not applied to this unit during combat. Adds total bonuses on unit to damage dealt.
Nóatún [Give Elise Candlelight+ on a Defense team.]: Unit may move adjacent to any ally. Allies can move to a space adjacent to unit. Unit can pass through foes. Prevents foes from moving through adjacent spaces.

Edited December 21, 2017 by XRay

[Hilda]

6 hours ago, XRay said:

 

I agree that they need to update their Weapons and get a BST boost.

However, for the Weapon Refinement, I prefer them to focus on their gimmicky niche builds so that their gimmicks are so useful that it may be considered viable, or at the very least fun or useful for non-competitive content.

Fólkvanger [Always defiantly awesome, just do NOT panic!]:  Grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+7 at start of turn.
Fensalir [Make Threatens great again.]:  Inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res-7 on foes within 3 spaces through their next actions at the start of each turn.
Nóatún [Give Elise Candlelight+ on a Defense team.]: Unit may move adjacent to any ally. Infantry and armored allies can move to a space adjacent to unit.

@GlennstavosI meant Atk Smoke and Spd Smoke -7

@XRayI want to make them a tad better not break them. All those legendary buffs you gave them are way too much imho. Alfonses one has no draw back in the form of Fury and Annas Noatun is beyond broken and totally RNG if you meet her in the Arena. It would be a nightmare to face her.

[XRay]

1 minute ago, Hilda said:

@GlennstavosI meant Atk Smoke and Spd Smoke -7

@XRayI want to make them a tad better not break them. All those legendary buffs you gave them are way too much imho. Alfonses one has no draw back in the form of Fury and Annas Noatun is beyond broken and totally RNG if you meet her in the Arena. It would be a nightmare to face her.

Besides maybe Anna, others are hardly broken. They are all still melee infantry units with no niche in the game. Even armor units have a singular purpose to be used in team 1 of Arena Assault to boost your score.

Alfonse needs his buff as soon as possible so players can use him immediately without waiting for his HP to drop. With how common Reinhardt, blue mages, and BH!Lyn are, Alfonse's buff is not much and he is easily taken out on an AI team.

Sharena's Threaten niche becomes much more usable for players. Threatens are crap because they do not work well against ranged units, the best units in the game. By increasing the range to three and make the debuff much more powerful, players would actually want to use Sharena and Fensalir. On an AI team, you just need to initiate on her as always; she is not exactly tanky to begin with.

It fits Anna's theme of being the RNG Goddess.

[Prototype Angel]

11 hours ago, NegativeExponents- said:

They definitely need weapon upgrades and additional copies for merges

BST boost is nice but Heroes has yet to boost the stats of characters that are already in the game. If they ever get stats boosted, it’ll probably be an alt. version of the characters rather than the characters themselves

I don’t think they’ll get it though. I suspect maybe a weapon upgrade but I think IS will likely go for introducing new units to ramp up the excitement levels rather than upgrade the trio

[Hilda]

37 minutes ago, XRay said:

Besides maybe Anna, others are hardly broken. They are all still melee infantry units with no niche in the game. Even armor units have a singular purpose to be used in team 1 of Arena Assault to boost your score.

Alfonse needs his buff as soon as possible so players can use him immediately without waiting for his HP to drop. With how common Reinhardt, blue mages, and BH!Lyn are, Alfonse's buff is not much and he is easily taken out on an AI team.

Sharena's Threaten niche becomes much more usable for players. Threatens are crap because they do not work well against ranged units, the best units in the game. By increasing the range to three and make the debuff much more powerful, players would actually want to use Sharena and Fensalir. On an AI team, you just need to initiate on her as always; she is not exactly tanky to begin with.

It fits Anna's theme of being the RNG Goddess.

I specificy excluded Sharena because her debuff is on the same level as refined daggers, but i would tie it to an attack of Sharena herself (as in make it a Smoke Atk/def/res/spd effect).

However Alfonses and Annas Weapon upgrades are borderline broken imho, those units arent only meant to be used in Arena, they are also meant to be used in PVE content, makeing them broken makes PVE content too easy imho (and i like running them on GHB and BHB as a Team because it makes it challenging).

Alfonse will loose to Reinfart and B****Lyn + Blue mages in any case, doesnt matter what you do. So why go overboard with his weapon. His niche is to be a physical tanky + high attack unit, he is never meant to tank ranged units. Brazen Atk/Def preserves the previous buff of the weapon, but makes it more usefull and the Wo dao effect makes his Sol Special much more usefull as a healing skill.

Annas Escape route 3 coupled with Desperation (i would opt for Wrath 3 since her attack is low, but Wrath 3 on a weapon would be lulz and prolly will never happen) fills her Niche of a "guerilla tactics" fighter pretty well, allowing her to take advantage of her Escape route she had on her weapon, slap on Brash Assault Seal on her and you have basicly a "Lyn" light that can teleport below 50% HP around and still can use Wrath 3 on her B slot but doesnt have the attack power of Lyn.

[Kaden]

Some were already suggested, but their weapons, like any weapon, should be available for refinement and Legendary Hero status. Becoming Legendary Heroes could act as a way for them to promote as if they were lords/ladies in a regular Fire Emblem game while also giving and explaining their increased stats. I would go far and say that their ability to refine or even evolve their weapons should be locked behind completing their promotion chapter. The only issue is whether or not they have to be 5* units to promote which can be a problem for some people and later when other Legendary Heroes become available and in a similar vein as Fjorm i.e. beating a chapter to get a free 5* Legendary Hero. That said, it might not be that big of a deal and they could just make the requirement be that they're 4* units and they just wouldn't have access to their legendary weapon until you get them to 5*. They get everything else, though: increased stats, maybe new art, and being associated with whatever element.

So, for example...

Spoiler

Alfonse: Legendary Hero of Earth. Alfonse being associated with fire makes sense if you associate his high attack, Folkvangr's Defiant Atk 2, and default Death Blow with fire as being destructive, but the recent story chapters, main or paralogue, have shown Alfonse as being knowledgeable about the world of Heroes, thoughtful, and level-headed. In terms of stats, he is bulky, so I feel like Alfonse being associated with earth could make sense.

43/35/25/32/22 to 45/35/25/36/22 (+2 HP, +4 Def)

Folkvangr: Defiant Atk 2 to Brazen Atk/Def 2: "If unit's HP <= 80% at the start of combat, grants Atk/Def+5 during combat."

Unique refinement: Obstruct EX: "Prevents foes from moving through adjacent spaces. (No effect on foes with a Pass skill.)" Note the lack of a HP requirement unlike with Obstruct 3. Maybe it should also work on units with Pass... Hey, gotta make it meta somehow. :p

Another option would be Wary Fighter, but that's kind of questionable even if it would make sense with Alfonse being an unmovable wall as a Legendary Hero of Earth.

Anna: Legendary Hero of Wind. Wind is associated with speed and travel where Anna's the fastest of the three and the Annas as a whole are travelers and merchants.

41/29/38/22/28 to 41/30/41/22/29 (+1 Atk, +3 Spd, +1 Res)

Noatun: Escape Route 2 to Grimoire/unique refined Fujin Yumi: "If unit has ≥ 50% HP, unit can move to a space adjacent to an ally within 2 spaces."

Unique refinement: Atk/Spd Bond 2: "Grants Atk/Spd+4 to this unit during combat if unit is adjacent to an ally."

Sharena: Legendary Hero of Fire. Fire in the sense of a warm and comforting thing which Sharena embodies.

43/32/32/29/22 to 43/34/34/30/22 (+2 Atk, +2 Spd, +1 Def)

Fensalir: Threaten Atk 2 to refined Clarisse's Bow's effect: "After combat, if unit attacked, inflicts Atk/Spd-5 on target and foes within 2 spaces of target through their next actions."

Unique Refinement: Lancebreaker 3. It's a reference to how Zacharias taught her everything he knew about how to use lances. An EX version, so like how Assassin's Bow has Daggerbreaker EX that doesn't have a HP requirement, might be too strong considering she would have a 16 Mt lance with built-in Lancebreaker, but I don't know, maybe some would find it perfectly fine and not overpowered.

Otherwise, Fierce Breath: "If attacked, unit granted Atk+4 during combat; also gains Special cooldown charge +1. (If using other similar skill, only highest value applied.)", could work...

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Kaden

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

I specificy excluded Sharena because her debuff is on the same level as refined daggers, but i would tie it to an attack of Sharena herself (as in make it a Smoke Atk/def/res/spd effect).

However Alfonses and Annas Weapon upgrades are borderline broken imho, those units arent only meant to be used in Arena, they are also meant to be used in PVE content, makeing them broken makes PVE content too easy imho (and i like running them on GHB and BHB as a Team because it makes it challenging).

Alfonse will loose to Reinfart and B****Lyn + Blue mages in any case, doesnt matter what you do. So why go overboard with his weapon. His niche is to be a physical tanky + high attack unit, he is never meant to tank ranged units. Brazen Atk/Def preserves the previous buff of the weapon, but makes it more usefull and the Wo dao effect makes his Sol Special much more usefull as a healing skill.

Annas Escape route 3 coupled with Desperation (i would opt for Wrath 3 since her attack is low, but Wrath 3 on a weapon would be lulz and prolly will never happen) fills her Niche of a "guerilla tactics" fighter pretty well, allowing her to take advantage of her Escape route she had on her weapon, slap on Brash Assault Seal on her and you have basicly a "Lyn" light that can teleport below 50% HP around and still can use Wrath 3 on her B slot but doesnt have the attack power of Lyn.

I prefer to make their effects stronger rather than changing it to a different skill to keep their flavor. I prefer making Sharena the best Threaten user than the best Smoke user.

Brazen Atk/Def is very different from Defiant Atk. Alfonse is immune to Panic in the former while Alfonse is susceptible to Panic in the latter. Super Defiant Atk/Spd/Def/Res makes him a better and more balanced tank. The overboard is required in my opinion since melee weapon users are already so underwhelming in the first place; if +7 on all stats is too much, +5 on all stats is a more toned down version. Just as players do not have to run pony teams for PvE content to keep it challenging, players also do not need to equip a unit's best weapon or build.

Escape Route 3 is niche and underwhelming in my opinion. Having an HP requirement severely holds melee units back especially on a defense team. Escape Route/Wings of Mercy 8 is better so Anna can do her job from the get go. If super Guidance is too much, regular Guidance would prevent Anna from emulating the swarming tactic of ranged cavalry teams. I do not mind swapping out Guidance for a combat effect, but I would remove any HP threshold requirement so she can just do her thing when she teleports.

Edited December 21, 2017 by XRay

[Hilda]

11 minutes ago, XRay said:

I prefer to make their effects stronger rather than changing it to a different skill to keep their flavor. I prefer making Sharena the best Threaten user than the best Smoke user.

Brazen Atk/Def is very different from Defiant Atk. Alfonse is immune to Panic in the former while Alfonse is susceptible to Panic in the latter. Super Defiant Atk/Spd/Def/Res makes him a better tank. The overboard is required in my opinion since melee weapon users are already so underwhelming in the first place; if +7 on all stats is too much, +5 on all stats is a more toned down version. Just as players do not have to run pony teams for PvE content to keep it challenging, players also do not need to equip a unit's best weapon or build.

Escape Route 3 is niche and underwhelming in my opinion. Having an HP requirement severely holds melee units back especially on a defense team. Escape Route/Wings of Mercy 8 is better so Anna can do her job from the get go. If super Guidance is too much, regular Guidance would prevent Anna from emulating the swarming tactic of ranged cavalry teams. I do not mind swapping out Guidance for a combat effect, but I would remove any HP threshold requirement so she can just do her thing when she teleports.

do you even use the Askr Trio at all? We dont need to turn everyone into Reinfart. Some people actually enjoy tackling content with units that need a specific built to succeed.

And while melee infantery users arent the best, they are far from useless. When Aflonse is a bonus unit he can be the perfect sword user counter (or is in my case) with Steady Breath and Sword Breaker.
And while yes melee users are a bit inferior, a melee only Team can work wonders. At least my Arena Team only consists of melee fighters and yet i havent struggled getting a deathless Arena run. Granted its BIke Sigurd and Clair but they do wonders. And Infernal BHB or GHB arent impossible when running the Askar Team only too (without any OP unit).
I have like 3 Horse Emblem Teams, but i barely (ecxept for Arena Assault) use them, because content is piss easy with them.

I really dont want them to get overpowered, just a slight upgrade to their weapon, while keeping their niche and expanding their usefullness a bit

Edited December 21, 2017 by Hilda

[XRay]

1 minute ago, Hilda said:

do you even use the Askr Trio at all? We dont need to turn everyone into Reinfart. Some people actually enjoy tackling content with units that need a specific built to succeed.

And while melee infantery users arent the best, they are far from useless. When Aflonse is a bonus unit he can be the perfect sword user counter (or is in my case) with Steady Breath and Sword Breaker.
And while yes melee users are a bit inferior, a melee only Team can work wonders. At least my Arena Team only consists of melee fighters and yet i havent struggled getting a deathless Arena run. Granted its BIke Sigurd and Clair but they do wonders. And Infernal BHB or GHB arent impossible when running the Askar Team only too (without any OP unit).

I really dont want them to get overpowered, just a slight upgrade to their weapon, while keeping their niche and expanding their usefullness a bit

I put them on my Arena offense team as bonus units, although I admittedly do not actually use them much in battle outside of being Reposition bots and occasionally get a kill when the enemy team is all melee infantry or something similarly easy.

Melee infantry are in a pretty bad spot. They have no niche and every other class of units can do what ever you need infantry units do and do it better. I want melee infantry to be on par with other classes of the game rather than just be inferior all the time. A lot of sword units can be good sword counters, so Alfonse being bonus unit that counters swords is pretty underwhelming when the core offense team have no trouble handling swords in the first place.

As I already said, players do not have to equip their best weapon for PVE content to keep it challenging. It is no different from choosing not to use ranged pony teams. Making them slightly better is not very impactful. Infernal difficulty with inflated stats can also run Panic Ploy Sacred Seal very effectively, so it is not like Alfonse with constant 5/5/5/5 buff makes it any easier.