what u DONT want to see in FE Switch

[Jingle Jangle]

21 minutes ago, Pegasus Knight said:

hmm at least with the 3DS class system many units had found classes where they can shine while they wouldnt if they stayed in their official classes...

True, but certain characters in the series struggled to kill without heavy babysitting/ stat booster ( most ax users in FE6), and a portion of the cast of Radiant Dawn due to how the game was designed.

[Lord_Grima]

Things I don't want to see:

• Skill Buying (Fates) - Letting any character gain any skill by visiting a Castle was a little too OP. With it and the partner seals stuff the only thing that differentiates a unit (besides personality and personal Skill [which most of the time was irrelevant]) is stat mods. You can make any character whatever class you want and give them what ever skill set you want. 
• Dragon Final Boss - Pretty obvious one here. Dragons get a little repetitive. 
• Unbreakable Weapons (Fates) - Fates had an interesting way to handle no weapon durability, but some of the debuffs on the weapons were just so bad to the point of "Why even use it". A forged Iron Sword is a better weapon than a Silver Sword? Really? Part of the strategy of Fire Emblem is weapon management, making sure your weapons don't break, and you have spares or a backup plan in case they do. Leaving the main legendary weapon as unbreakable is fine.
• Too Many Royals (Fates) - Not much to say about this, but all the other characters felt overshadowed by the Royals. Especially when those royals had legendary weapons.
• Avatar as main character (Awakening 2nd half & Fates) - In the first half of Awakening, Robin was just the tactician which was cool and it worked well. The story was focused on Chrom. Once Robin became more involved in the main plot, there were some things that could have gone better. In Fates, Corrin did not feel like an Avatar, Corrin was more his/her own character (a bad one at that). Robin played the Avatar role better because I could see myself in Robin's shoes, but I could not see my self as Corrin. 
• Magic in the main weapon triangle (Fates) - I miss magic being its own thing. 

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Lord_Grima said:

• Skill Buying (Fates) - Letting any character gain any skill by visiting a Castle was a little too OP. With it and the partner seals stuff the only thing that differentiates a unit (besides personality and personal Skill [which most of the time was irrelevant]) is stat mods. You can make any character whatever class you want and give them what ever skill set you want. 

My friend complained about that as well. Said that it really hurt the point of trying to decide how pairings worked for strategic purposes in regards to Marriage Seals and such. I see his point. Really though, I focused more on just getting those guys that had hacked Aptitudes. 

2 minutes ago, Lord_Grima said:

• Dragon Final Boss - Pretty obvious one here. Dragons get a little repetitive. 

I could go for another demon lord final boss. It'd be the second one at least, since the first was Sacred Stones. Though another actual god would be neat, since Ashera was the only god to fight. Duma was believed to be one, but... well, he's a dragon now.

3 minutes ago, Lord_Grima said:

• Unbreakable Weapons (Fates) - Fates had an interesting way to handle no weapon durability, but some of the debuffs on the weapons were just so bad to the point of "Why even use it". A forged Iron Sword is a better weapon than a Silver Sword? Really? Part of the strategy of Fire Emblem is weapon management, making sure your weapons don't break, and you have spares or a backup plan in case they do. Leaving the main legendary weapon as unbreakable is fine.

I feel certain personal weapons could also count for unbreakable as well. Oh yeah, while we're at it, we should also put in "Legendary Weapons must be EARNED", since Fates literally had us get the legendary weapons on a silver platter. 

 

5 minutes ago, Lord_Grima said:

• Avatar as main character (Awakening 2nd half & Fates) - In the first half of Awakening, Robin was just the tactician which was cool and it worked well. The story was focused on Chrom. Once Robin became more involved in the main plot, there were some things that could have gone better. In Fates, Corrin did not feel like an Avatar, Corrin was more his/her own character (a bad one at that). Robin played the Avatar role better because I could see myself in Robin's shoes, but I could not see my self as Corrin. 

Third arc actually. Awakening was three arcs compressed into one. Would have been amazing had they made each arc its own game actually. But overall, yeah. Keep a more supporting role like Robin. He is still the best Avatar in my opinion. 

6 minutes ago, Lord_Grima said:

• Magic in the main weapon triangle (Fates) - I miss magic being its own thing. 

I'm meh on that. Mostly cause Magic being part of the main triangle is pretty interesting and provides more strategic uses. 

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Pegasus Knight said:

hmm at least with the 3DS class system many units had found classes where they can shine while they wouldnt if they stayed in their official classes...

And then you have the likes of Arthur and Charlotte, who just struggle without an assload of babysitting, and aren't so great afterwards as to be worth it...

Edited December 22, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Omegaprism]

A list of what Omegaprism doesn't want to see in the next Fire Emblem, the short version:

-Fates' awfully balanced weapon system

-Lolis

-Shotas

-3DS skill system

-Reclassing

-Eugenics

The End

[NinjaMonkey]

• Fates Weapon Triangle/Mechanics/Weapon Systems
• Dismounting
• Fatigue
• Fog of War
• Holy Weapons
• Killing off most of your team for a Gaiden chapter
• Dark Magic getting the shaft as always
• A Female Lord
• One single tome rank

Edited December 23, 2017 by NinjaMonkey

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, bethany81707 said:

I've been told Tharja was done about as well as a proto-Faye in Awakening, and later games ramped up the Camilla-esque fanservice.

By whom? Because that feels like a load of horse hockey, if ya ask me... I don't think Tharja can even be compared to Faye, other than the whole "crush on main character" thing....

Edited December 22, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Hawkwing]

My thoughts on the matter:

• No Children: Now, I don't mind the child mechanic (heck, I actually kind of like it from a gameplay perspective), but I want to see its many flaws ironed out first before I see it appear again, and I also want them to go full out with it if it returns (I.e. have there be a mulit-generational conflict that goes beyond two generations, with the choices made in one generation having consequences further down the line).
• No Avatar: Similarly to the above, I do believe that an avatar could be done very well in a Fire Emblem game. However I don't want them until IS has proven that they have learned from there past mistakes writing-wise. Considering they had to write over 200 supports for the avatar alone in Awakening, I also consider it a hurdle that they don't need to jump, as that effort could be placed elsewhere. And similarly to the above, I want them to go all out with it if it returns (have a choice to decide how to respond to an event, or what to say in a support, and have the avatars importance to the plot be determined by the player, not the game).
• Limit the amount of Fanservice: Just make it optional. I know that some people don't mind or care for fanservice (and some sickos actually enjoy it), but I've seen more people bash than praise it's inclusion in, well, anything, so it's best not to have it anyway.
• Evil Dragon/Cult Hijacking the plot: It was old when they first did it, it's still old now. I never cared for the "evil cult" cliché, and wish it would stop appearing in general, and there are only so many times you can fight a dragon as a final boss before it gets stale. Like most other's have said, I want a more human-based conflict for the next game. I'm not opposed to evil dragons appearing, but can they please not be the final boss?
• Fog of War: It could work if they changed the movement mechanics for these maps (such as in Battle for Wesnoth, where you can move a unit one hex at a time, but you can't undo a move if said unit removes the fog). Otherwise, keep it out!
• NO REINFORCEMENTS THAT MOVE ON THE SAME TURN THEY ARRIVE! 'nuff said.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Hawkwing

[NekoKnight]

-No outrealms, deeprealms, time travel or any half-assed crossovers. I'd like a story that stands by its own merrits doesn't have random cameos by popular characters (baring Anna) from other games.

-No player/protagonist worship. An avatar is a cool idea but I don't want the world to revolve around me.

-No kids or marriage before the epilogue, unless it's story relevant.

-No Omnicidal dragon/cult of evil main antagonists.

-No gratuitous fanservice.

-No third tier class system

 

 

[De Geso]

I don't want to see:

FE4's maps

More than one lord

An avatar that isn't a tactician (even then, I'd rather not have it)

Second seals/reclassing items ie I want the reclassing system to resemble DSFE

Skills

The removal of Fates' weapon triangle system

2 generations

strong independent womyn a la Sully

Unbreakable weapons

A forging system that isn't like Echoes

Too much focus on story - I say this a lot but I think story is completely irrelevant to my enjoyment of a game, and the less of it there is the less time I have to waste between playing. Echoes suffered from this.

"Oh I'd better retreat ;-;." Just let dead characters be dead, IS. Put some effort into the cutscenes and replace dead characters with others, talk about important characters' deaths, stuff like that.

Edited December 22, 2017 by YouSquiddinMe

[Arthur97]

2 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

My thoughts on the matter:

• No Children/Avatar: Now, I don't mind the child mechanic (heck, I actually kind of like it from a gameplay perspective), but I want to see its many flaws ironed out first before I see it appear again, and I also want them to go full out with it if it returns (I.e. have there be a mulit-generational conflict that goes beyond two generations, with the choices made in one generation having consequences further down the line).

So...a Rogue's Legacy Fire Emblem. An interesting proposition.

[saisymbolic]

• No magic weapon triangle. I've never seen the benefit of it. Mages generally have higher resistance, so I'm going to kill them with a physical unit, anyways. Don't know what they can do with magic to differentiate the elements, but making a separate weapon triangle for them is not it. Make them give different debuffs or something, I don't know.
• Dismounting. Never saw the marvel of it. Bring back Canto instead.
• No third tier. It only worked for RD because it was a direct sequel. Any other scenario, and it would feel forced.
• Less than 10 playable royal units. Someone mentioned it on an earlier page and I agree. And I'm not talking about characters that are lords of small countries or come from well-to-do families similar to Virion or Maribelle; I'm taking about high princesses and princes and basically a third of Fates' cast. Preferably no more than, like, three - and that's pushing it.
• No more beast shape shifters. FFS JUST BRING BACK BIRDS!!!!1!!!1111

I'm pretty okay with anything else, I suppose.

Edited December 22, 2017 by saisymbolic

[Pegasus Knight]

hmmm i could mention pair up ... i like the mechanic but i would like to tweak it a bit, because most of teh times 1/3 of my army ends up being pair bots with 0 involvement to the game cause they are so under leveled that they end up useless.. 

 

tbh i liked how in echoes i was forced to use everyone in the chapter....

Edited December 22, 2017 by Pegasus Knight

[omegaxis1]

1 hour ago, Pegasus Knight said:

hmmm i could mention pair up ... i like the mechanic but i would like to tweak it a bit, because most of teh times 1/3 of my army ends up being pair bots with 0 involvement to the game cause they are so under leveled that they end up useless.. 

 

tbh i liked how in echoes i was forced to use everyone in the chapter....

Echoes forced you to use everyone because Gaiden/Echoes has the lowest number of units in the entire franchise. Not only that, but they even split the characters up by half more or less. 

I feel that the Pair Up mechanic was more or less at their peak in Fates actually. They really fixed a lot of the issues. Guard and Attack Stance are perfect way to use it as it genuinely relies not on chance, but strategy. 

[Pegasus Knight]

18 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Echoes forced you to use everyone because Gaiden/Echoes has the lowest number of units in the entire franchise. Not only that, but they even split the characters up by half more or less. 

I feel that the Pair Up mechanic was more or less at their peak in Fates actually. They really fixed a lot of the issues. Guard and Attack Stance are perfect way to use it as it genuinely relies not on chance, but strategy. 

sure but i mean that i was using everyone to attack (or heal).. while in pair up some characters are always forced to pair up bots... for example i liked using Charlotte but she was always been best at pairing xander... so she is completely forgettable unless u actually use her

i like the fates pair up tbh but maybe tweak the exp the other unit is receiving?

[Shadow Mir]

14 minutes ago, Pegasus Knight said:

sure but i mean that i was using everyone to attack (or heal).. while in pair up some characters are always forced to pair up bots... for example i liked using Charlotte but she was always been best at pairing xander... so she is completely forgettable unless u actually use her

i like the fates pair up tbh but maybe tweak the exp the other unit is receiving?

I'd say that has more to do with another point made in this thread - the part where certain units are nigh unusable without heavy investment - and, as I said earlier, the part where Charlotte is, to put it ever so bluntly, not so great even afterwards as to make the investment worth it...

[omegaxis1]

Actually, I think one thing that should be altered is the heavy cast of characters. Seriously, enough is enough. How many can name me each and every character from Shadow Dragon without looking it up? 

Fates? New Mystery? Even Awakening? Well, I can name the latter since I love the game, but anyone else? 

The fact is, this extremely high cast of characters leaves way too many things that causes us to have too many to choose from and prevents us from using them all effectively. In my opinion, the games should have less than 40 characters to choose from. 

~35 seems a good average personally.

[Shadow Mir]

Just now, omegaxis1 said:

Actually, I think one thing that should be altered is the heavy cast of characters. Seriously, enough is enough. How many can name me each and every character from Shadow Dragon without looking it up? 

Fates? New Mystery? Even Awakening? Well, I can name the latter since I love the game, but anyone else? 

The fact is, this extremely high cast of characters leaves way too many things that causes us to have too many to choose from and prevents us from using them all effectively. In my opinion, the games should have less than 40 characters to choose from. 

~35 seems a good average personally.

I disagree - less is just, well, less.

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I disagree - less is just, well, less.

Less actually allows you to have better chances to use more units. 

[Shadow Mir]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Less actually allows you to have better chances to use more units. 

And why in the seven hells should I buy into this BS???

[vanguard333]

Things that I do not want to see in FE Switch:

1. 2nd Gen units. They had a good reason for existing in FE4, and a decent reason in Awakening. But, in Fates, there was no excuse. 

2. Everyone-can-support-everyone. Why? Some support conversations are great and well-written, others are arbitrary and terrible. Limit support conversations to ones that make sense.

3. Dark Magic without Light magic. Bring both of them back, or don't bring back either one.

4. Hot springs. My Castle was a nice expansion of the base system (if really badly integrated into the story), but if it, or anything like it, is to come back, then there are some things that should not be brought back; hot springs being one of them.

5. Katanas granting +1 speed. I understand that the point is it's a trade-off, but it also spreads the false idea that katanas are faster than European swords. In fact, if you compare a katana with a longsword of equivalent weight, the longsword is longer; giving it greater point control.

6. A blue-haired lord character that's a prince or noble's son with a bland personality and no notable in-story mistakes or flaws. Marth was okay because he was the first one, and was only bland because of the limited dialogue. But, after him, Alm (who I admit is actually green-haired), etc., I am sick of it. Give the protagonist a personality, and do they always have to be heirs to noble positions? Why can't they be, for example, the second son?

7. Evil/Senile dragon final boss. Again; no problem with Medeus. He was the first one, he had a clear, thought-out personality and motivation, and an interesting backstory. Other such final bosses, in of themselves, are not that bad. Duma was interesting because he wasn't really the villain; the Duma Faithful, desperately wanting to keep Duma alive so they could continue to mooch off of Duma's power no matter how mad Duma was becoming, were the villains. Grima... was bland, but the idea of his host being the one that can destroy him once and for all was interesting. Anankos... was terrible, but could have been interesting; the whole thing about the First Dragons was seriously underused. The problem is the amount. There have been too many of them. Done well, it can be great. But they really should put it on hold for a game or two.

8. Physically 8-year old female playable Manakete. Tiki was alright because she was the first one, was the daughter of Naga, and there was another playable manakete (even though he was useless aside from recruiting Tiki): Bantu. But, ever since, they have almost always been female little girls with childish personalities. Why? Fates did something good by making the protagonist the manakete instead. Fates did something good! That is not a sentence one often is able to say. The Tellius games averted this as well, albeit with Dragon Laguz instead. In Path of Radiance had the options of Ena or Nasir; neither of whom had childish personalities, and Ena, while looking young, did not look like an 8-year old. Radiant Dawn then added Gareth: an adult male, and Prince Kurthnaga: a young boy dragon laguz lacking in a childish personality. If manaketes come back, none of the playable ones should be 8-year-old-looking girls with childish personalities.

9. A standard-issue Gharnef expy. The Gharnef archetype: evil wizard manipulating everything behind the scenes, is not bad in of itself. Gharnef was an interesting villain. But so many of them have just followed the same mold without anything making them uniquely interesting. Almost all of them are scheming, old-looking sorcerers and cult leaders in it for themselves and with moustache-twirling villainy. Jedah could have been interesting if he had been less cartoony and more, "I truly believe the world cannot live without Duma, and I also wish to keep mooching on his power. Mad or not, he must continue existing." Manfroy was also bland. Validar could have been interesting if he had been less moustache-twirling evil and more fanatic-servant. Iago... what even was he? He had no plot relevance except as a recurring nuisance with unexplained abilities. I can only think of two that were different. Nergal at least had a different backstory: a father who needed more magic power and went literally mad with power to the point where he forgot why he wanted it in the first place. Sephirian was truly interesting with a heart-wrenching backstory, different abilities from the typical, "master of dark magic" these guys usually are, and wasn't a power-mad moustache twirler, but instead was what TVTropes calls a Woobie: Destroyer of Worlds. I'm fine with someone of the gharnef archetype. But he/she (why is it always male) should not be a rehash of the formula with nothing unique and interesting.

I'm certain there are more, but the list is already long.

[Slumber]

- Kids

- Pair-up

- S-rank supports(Save romance for the epilogue) 

- Risk-free grinding opportunities 

- Fates' weapon system

- On that subject, Hidden Weapons

- Ridiculous fanservice

- Unrestrained reclassing

- One single tome rank

- The Awakening/Fates skill system where every skill is treated as equal

- Avatar worship

- Another goddamn dragon as the antagonist

Basically a lot of things Awakening emphasized, and to a lesser extent, some things Fates emphasized. Fates was a step in the right direction in a lot of ways, but still stumbled here and there(IMO). 

Edited December 22, 2017 by Slumber

[Pegasus Knight]

Am i the only one who wants Magic to work like echoes?

 

my issue with Fates was that my priests had all these great staff with such limited number of uses that i end up not using and always saving for emergency... not to mention a healer can only hold as much staff as he can get

oh another thing i want back from echoes was archers! in recent games unless u are takumi u arent really doing your army a favor

 

Edited December 22, 2017 by Pegasus Knight

[Shadow Mir]

12 minutes ago, Pegasus Knight said:

Am i the only one who wants Magic to work like echoes?

 

my issue with Fates was that my priests had all these great staff with such limited number of uses that i end up not using and always saving for emergency... not to mention a healer can only hold as much staff as he can get

oh another thing i want back from echoes was archers! in recent games unless u are takumi u arent really doing your army a favor

That's the problem with durability in general - rare stuff tends to get hoarded or even left to gather dust.

Speaking of, that's another thing that I don't want to see - status staves. They're far and away more useful for the enemy than they are for the player.

I dunno about that - frankly, having archers like them in more recent games might cause more problems than it solves...

[Hawkwing]

2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Less actually allows you to have better chances to use more units. 

 

2 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

And why in the seven hells should I buy into this BS???

Less characters mean that less of them get benched, and more focus can be put on fleshing out each character, limiting the amount of "one-note" characters we get. It also means that every character has a use, no matter how nice or unfair the RNG has been with them.

Though of course, this also has its problems, as permadeath hits much harder than it would otherwise, and not everyone likes the "work with what you've got" playstyle.

1 hour ago, Pegasus Knight said:

Am i the only one who wants Magic to work like echoes?

 

my issue with Fates was that my priests had all these great staff with such limited number of uses that i end up not using and always saving for emergency... not to mention a healer can only hold as much staff as he can get

oh another thing i want back from echoes was archers! in recent games unless u are takumi u arent really doing your army a favor

I personally would like to see a hybrid of the current magic system with tomes and the way magic works with Echoes, with most units having a personal but limited amount of spells they can learn and can cost at the use of hp, yet they can also use tomes to attack without hp loss and/or to attack in a method they otherwise couldn't.

Put a limit on anything, and super resourceful me won't use it until I absolutely have to. Heck, I almost never used the bonus weapons you got in Awakening (such as Leafs sword (though I gave that to Donnel, as he's the luckiest man alive in that game) or Ephraim's lance) until the very last chapters of the game! While I'm not calling for a repeat of Fates system, I would like for some (not all) weapons to have unlimited uses, but have a gimmick/downside to counter their strengths.

Agreed, though I think their range should be limited to a maximum of 3 range, so they can differentiate themselves from mages without overshadowing them. I also want archers to have a counterattack in melee combat, but perhaps with a penalty of some sort (such as reduced hit and/or avoidance, or reduced attack, etc.).

11 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

So...a Rogue's Legacy Fire Emblem. An interesting proposition.

BINGO! Give this man a prize for guessing correctly! Anyway, as I said, if the child mechanic returns, I want them to go all out. The only thing I'm concerned about is the how IS would handle this storywise, as they haven't proven themselves to be the best of storytellers, and it doesn't take much thought to realize how much thought and effort must be put into a plot that spans multiple generations.