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Whos Playing as of 12/22/2017?

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14 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

Well, you'd be wrong...

because there's absolutely no multiplayer in Echoes.  None aside from this hint-system where if you Streetpass with someone, some treasure will appear on the world map for you to collect.  Or I think that's how it works; I never did this when I played Echoes.  But it's something to that effect.

Echoes' problem with replayability does stem from a lack of MU and marriage options, sure, but it's also lacking flexible reclass options.  Only villagers and those who are somewhere within the mercenary class line can eventually change to any other class available to them through normal means; everyone else needs to use one of three Villager Forks that are made available through free DLC.  And those options are severely limited by gender; males can only be mercs, cavs, knights, mages, and archers, and females can only be cavs, mages, clerics, and pegasus knights.  Also, you only get about 10-15 units for each party.

As if there werent enough nails in the coffin, echoes doesnt even have a multiplayer to compare? 

Why did people buy this again?

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1 hour ago, ScotchTapeMafia said:

As if there werent enough nails in the coffin, echoes doesnt even have a multiplayer to compare? 

Why did people buy this again?

The same reason folks bought any game not FE12/CQ.

The game has replay value with self imposed conducts on hard. No-grind full combat lab runs, efficency play, limited/jank recruitment , etc are quite entertaining in 15.

Edit: The game is also absolutely gorgeous. Jaw droppingly so.

Edited by joshcja

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7 hours ago, ScotchTapeMafia said:

Why did people buy this again?

To add onto what josh said, it's also because just like any entry it has a likable cast, strategy elements, great character interactions in the supports...

I'll say that while it didn't have much replay value for me personally, plenty of folks love coming back to it.  And I wouldn't say that just comes down to some elitist dissent against the other 3DS games; the game has its merits.  Heck, I mean... I myself bought the game, and I enjoyed it well enough.

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6 hours ago, joshcja said:

The same reason folks bought any game not FE12/CQ.

The game has replay value with self imposed conducts on hard. No-grind full combat lab runs, efficency play, limited/jank recruitment , etc are quite entertaining in 15.

Edit: The game is also absolutely gorgeous. Jaw droppingly so.

-Multiple complaints on the LACK of replay value

-No multiplayer, no customization, barely any player interaction

-Rehash of an older game with practically nothing new introduced

I would agree that the game looks beautiful.

Overall, maybe you'd play for the art. Maybe youd play for the amazing plot/story this game has. But other than that? Seems like people finish the game and tend to not come back for more. In its defense, I heard you can make decisions in-game that affect the way the plot turns out later down the line. Go ahead someone, tell me that last bit isnt true (as if we need more negatives) lmao The bit above about how the actual gameplay and strategic elements are fun is valid.....EXCEPT, doesnt every FE game have that? I guess what I'm trying to say is: What does this FE game have that the previous two DONT?

Also, im not trying to offend anyone. Im just making observations without having played the game. My word holds less weight. Still, these are honest observations

Edited by ScotchTapeMafia

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1 hour ago, ScotchTapeMafia said:

Stuff.

You should look into the game more before hating on it, I've played it more than Awakening already.

Or just play the game, it's 20$ used and you clearly enjoy fire emblem.

As for what it has that the previous two do not? Everything. Gaiden was a rather drastic break from the traditional FE formulae in terms of gameplay and SoV stays mostly true to that with light tweaking.

-------------------------------------------------

Ignoring this, Pokemon has been shitting out the same game over and over for god knows how many years but folks still buy it like a junkie grabs that sweet pointy fix. You like fire emblem, it's a fire emblem game. It does not need to be new and inovative for the sake of being new and inovative.

A QoL and graphical update of gaiden with some tasteful additions makes for a very solid FE game as gaiden already had some unique twists on the classic formula. People clearly enjoy FE as it has 15 going on 16 main series entries so of fucking course it sold and sold well. It's not FE12 or CQ but not everyone is looking for controler breaking difficulty coated in a chromed finish of elbow greasy polish, either because it's too restrictive for their challenge runs, or because they're just not good at games, and waifu emblem can get old. So as a palate cleanser and olde tyme FE game SoV is both refreshing, and has all the same style/quality of replay value as all the other classic's of it's time.

Except with way better QoL, additional built in and freelc content, and it's just so god damn pretty.

(That said the paid dlc is a rip, but it always is)

Can we stop talking about SoV now?

Edited by joshcja

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34 minutes ago, joshcja said:

Longer stuff\

I admire that youre trying to simplify the decision making process, but some details are worth looking into and shouldnt be over simplified. 

Your pokemon referance was almost spot on. Heres why it doesnt quite apply here- pokemon keeps producing games that are largely the same, its true. However, they never take features away. They only add them. Little by little, but its always at least half a step forward. Lets say they remake gen 1 games into an updated 3ds version. That games gonna have multiplayer. Doesnt matter if the original didnt have multiplayer. I guess what gets me is that features are being purposefully left out just for the sake of being as mirrored as possible to the original. Oh, and im not defending pokemon at this point. Despite what i said above, i stopped buying after ORAS. They change things they shouldnt change while things stay the same that really shouldnt. 

However, the bottom line is that if you can convince me echoes has replay value, id buy it. Ive already listed a dozen things that were pulling me away from this game. Im not wasting $30 on something ill play through once and then the only thing left to do is restart- even if the first round is enjoyable. If anyone really wants to sell me on this game: list a bunch of things that the game urges you to do after initial completion. Things such as NG+ from dark souls for example.

Edited by ScotchTapeMafia

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On December 30, 2017 at 3:50 PM, ScotchTapeMafia said:

I admire that youre trying to simplify the decision making process, but some details are worth looking into and shouldnt be over simplified. 

Your pokemon referance was almost spot on. Heres why it doesnt quite apply here- pokemon keeps producing games that are largely the same, its true. However, they never take features away. They only add them. Little by little, but its always at least half a step forward. Lets say they remake gen 1 games into an updated 3ds version. That games gonna have multiplayer. Doesnt matter if the original didnt have multiplayer. I guess what gets me is that features are being purposefully left out just for the sake of being as mirrored as possible to the original. Oh, and im not defending pokemon at this point. Despite what i said above, i stopped buying after ORAS. They change things they shouldnt change while things stay the same that really shouldnt. 

However, the bottom line is that if you can convince me echoes has replay value, id buy it. Ive already listed a dozen things that were pulling me away from this game. Im not wasting $30 on something ill play through once and then the only thing left to do is restart- even if the first round is enjoyable. If anyone really wants to sell me on this game: list a bunch of things that the game urges you to do after initial completion. Things such as NG+ from dark souls for example.

To address the mention of Pokemon, they don't only add features, they do pull features off occasionally, though it's usually based on in-game Region - Unova's C-Gear was removed during the transfer to XY, and they removed Kalos' Photo Spots when they went to ORAS. While they do try to add content with every new game, they can't never take features away, or we'd still have our Pokemon walking behind us as we roller-skate our way across a Hoenn Bike railing while chatting real-time on a C-Gear and the game would be an unplayable mess. In a way, Fire Emblem has been like this - we have differences between in-game worlds, with Fates having no weapon durability, Valentia missing the Weapon Triangle, Awakening featuring ultimate deity-level ReClassing, etc.

Most Fire Emblem games require the player to come up with their own replay value through personal restriction reruns, and Echoes is no different. Yes, there are postgame things in older FE games such as the Creature Campaign, but overall that isn't the goal of a Fire Emblem. In the case of SoV, there is Act 6, a technical postgame with a bit of content plus background information on Grima's origins, and there is the chain of sidequests all across Valentia that is easiest to complete once you beat the game and have access to both groups. There are also achievement badges for your Streetpass card, one of which requires you to beat the game on Hard Classic, so if you want to 100% the game you'll need to either run Hard Classic on your first try or do a second playthrough plus complete Act 6. Admittedly, SoV has slightly less postgame content than the past couple Fire Emblem games, but the devs themselves stated they were trying to go for a relatively faithful remake of a Famicom game, so they weren't exactly trying to be super innovative with this one - this is also their reasoning behind the lack of an Avatar. Obviously it isn't for everyone, so if it's not your playstyle, that's fine too.

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For me, I have not touched Fates much since echoes came out. I played and beaten all 3 versions, though I may go back to play conquest. I am currently playing Fire Emblem Awakening on lunatic and abusing the DLC cuz... honestly, the lunatic mode on Awakening is rather silly. I likely wont be touching echoes for a while as, whilst I love that game, I did two runs back to back. One where I did 0 grinding (that was hell...), and one where I am making my characters broken so I can feel like a super hero. 

 

But yea, I am taking the time right now to try other fire emblem games. I will return to Fates at some stage though. 

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