Skill Inheritance through Supports

[Fabulously Olivier]

The inheritance system is probably the most controversial mechanic in the Fire Emblem franchise. You either love 2nd generation characters or hate them. Personally, I feel that 2nd generations should only be included if they naturally mesh with the story (as was the case with Geneology of the Holy War). Many of us would prefer that 2nd generation characters not be shoe-horned into every new game in the franchise, but they do provide one meaningful strategic element to the Fire Emblem Formula. Namely, 2nd generation characters are interesting in that they not only increase the importance of the Support System, but also add replay value in the form of what some would deride as a "eugenics simulator," or the ability to match characters together for the sake of creating characters with more interesting combinations of stats and skills.

I would like to propose a system by which we can keep the replay value and depth of inheritance, without needing 2nd generation characters that decrease the quality of writing and replace 1st generation characters. 

Skill Inheritance

Under this system, every character would have an assortment of skills. These skills would come in four types:

Innate skills are unique to that character and cannot be changed. These are available at all times. These are the skill types introduced in Fates and serve to make each character feel distinct.

Class skills are learned by all characters of that class at certain levels. These follow the implementation introduced in Awakening and solidified in Fates and Valentia.

Weapon skills are learned through ranking up particular weapons. This aspect of FE Echoes: Shadows of Valentia is unique, and I would consider it an asset to the series going forward.

Legacy skills represent that character's training/background. These skills, like Innate skills are available on the original character at all times. Unlike Innate skills, Legacy skills can be inherited by a support partner by achieving an A+ or S ranking. 

 

Under this system, when two characters form an A+ or S support rank, each of them would inherit their partner's/best friend's Legacy skill through shared training sessions. Only one A+ or S support would be available on each character with each playthrough.

 

Why I believe this would benefit the franchise

• Because only one A+ or S pairing is available per character per playthrough, romance is not required to benefit from this system, but is also an option for achieving it. Therefore, the dating simulator mechanics of the game become optional - a nice inclusion for those who appreciate it and easily ignored by those who do not.
• The Support system keeps its current importance in gameplay (and possibly becomes even more important.)
• Different combinations of Legacy skills on different characters will add to the depth and replay value of the franchise.
• Without shoe-horned 2nd generation characters, the writers can focus their efforts on a smaller cast of characters, thus greatly improving the writing of future titles.

Edited December 30, 2017 by Etheus

[Slumber]

I don't know how to feel about this.

I really don't like crazy flexibility with skills as is(It's partly why I've disliked reclassing so much since Awakening), since it seems to encourage "uber-builds" that all end up feeling the same. You just reclass to the classes that give you the best skills, then switch to whatever class is actually the strongest available. I feel like this would add another layer to it. You'd just be supporting with whatever units have the most OP skills.

But, as I've said for a while with other mechanics that offer the acquisition of new skills, if they give skills a numerical value and force a relatively low cap on each character, I'd be fine with this. There'd be more to consider beyond "What's the most OP skill to get?"

Edited December 30, 2017 by Slumber

[Fabulously Olivier]

9 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I don't know how to feel about this.

I really don't like crazy flexibility with skills as is(It's partly why I've disliked reclassing so much since Awakening), since it seems to encourage "uber-builds" that all end up feeling the same. You just reclass to the classes that give you the best skills, then switch to whatever class is actually the strongest available. I feel like this would add another layer to it. You'd just be supporting with whatever units have the most OP skills.

But, as I've said for a while with other mechanics that offer the acquisition of new skills, if they give skills a numerical value and force a relatively low cap on each character, I'd be fine with this. There'd be more to consider beyond "What's the most OP skill to get?"

Perhaps the solution to that is simply to change how Class skills work. Having to earn them via level is logical, but it does lead to that problem. Perhaps Class skills should be tied exclusively to that class and be unlocked right from level 1 of the base class and promoted class respectively. 

[YingofDarkness]

12 hours ago, Etheus said:

Perhaps the solution to that is simply to change how Class skills work. Having to earn them via level is logical, but it does lead to that problem. Perhaps Class skills should be tied exclusively to that class and be unlocked right from level 1 of the base class and promoted class respectively. 

I'd say keep the lowest level skill inheritable just to give people more of a reason to switch classes, but keep the best skills tied to that class. I don't really see a problem with them being unlocked at levels 5 and 15 to give people something to work for though.

Other then that I didn't really like how weapon skills worked. It was annoying how long it could take to unlock some of the skills, and how a weapon's skill was tied to the person. It makes perfect sense as to why it would be tied to the person, and if weapon skills do come back then it should stay the same. As annoying as this is, the mechanic would be broken in half otherwise. They should change how quickly some of them gain skills though. Maybe make it so that the speed at which they learn it is based off the soldier's weapon rank. So a soldier with a B rank in swords would learn skills from an iron sword faster then someone at D rank. Just increase the speed by .5 for every rank above they are. I'd also prefer if it only the legendary weapons and weapons of a certain rank can gain skills. I think giving every weapon in SoV skills worked there only because there aren't that many weapons to begin with, in comparison to other mainline FE titles.

I like the ideas for innate skills and support skills though.

[Shadow Mir]

Sorry, but I can't support this idea - this just sounds waaaaaay too complicated.

[Cowazon]

As far as weapon skills go, i thought echoes was really fun because of them, but I also hated that it encouraged you to plan out a weapon for each character and rush to unlock it as fast as posible and never have it leave your hands after that, which is really clunky from a gameplay perspective, especially for a blind first run of a game. In a modern FE, I would imagine weapons might even have multiple skills that might be immediately usable upon equipping the weapon as long as you have the rank. This could make S rank classes see use outside their raw stats, caps, and pairup bonuses. S rank weapons themselves in fates/awakening really suck, and it would be nice to feel rewarded for picking an S rank class and getting the rank up in a way that isnt necesaarily just a weapon that is either garbage or completely bonkers. Balancing all of that might be complex but im sure its doable. Maybe nerf arms scrolls to gain a certain amount of WEXP instead of the full level?

Personal skills from fates are really cool and i hope they're here to stay. They were really well done in terms of not only providing meaningful differences between characters, but their names and what they did generally tied into that character's quirks/personality regardless of how good or bad they were in-game.

Your idea of inheriting legacy skills rather than class skills through supports is interesting, but the main problem I see is in balancing it out and making it interesting at the same time. Inheriting a class isnt just about acquiring a new skill, but also changes your weapon types, ranks, base stats, caps, and growths. The puzzle of what to give a unit is significantly less fun to figure out if its just a skill they get access to.

With regards to children, while fun from a gameplay/optimization perspective, it seems like a forced idea that will never mesh well with a story in a way that doesnt require some awkward plot device. An easy way to fix this would be to simply call them "apprentices" and have them join throughout the story the same way children currently do. You could pick and choose which characters get an apprentice to train, and the mechanics could be similar to children but only being tied to one character rather than 2.

Whatever changes end up happening, I think  you're right about the system needing an overhaul to keep the same replay value and gameplay depth without butchering the story/writing to facilitate that.