What is your opinion of Nowi in terms of personality and characterization?

[Jotari]

34 minutes ago, Soleater said:

Eh, I suppose they could have made Say'ri more important by having her explain it rather than Tiki (if she would have known), but I think that it makes sense for Tiki to be there in the game anyway, so why not use her?

Plus, she adds a startling contrast to Nowi, and I think that's worth it.

Oh I don't object at all to Tiki being in the game, I just feel they didn't use her (and Lucina should have known everything Tiki tells the party anyway, since she attempted to use the Awakening already in the Future Past). Her role in Future Past was good and should have been worked into the main narrative.

[Emperor Hardin]

55 minutes ago, Soleater said:

Eh, I suppose they could have made Say'ri more important by having her explain it rather than Tiki (if she would have known), but I think that it makes sense for Tiki to be there in the game anyway, so why not use her?

Plus, she adds a startling contrast to Nowi, and I think that's worth it.

Not really, Nowi is pretty much a clone of young Tiki.

They don't even reference Mystery and Shadow Dragon with Awakening Tiki.

[omegaxis1]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Oh I don't object at all to Tiki being in the game, I just feel they didn't use her (and Lucina should have known everything Tiki tells the party anyway, since she attempted to use the Awakening already in the Future Past). Her role in Future Past was good and should have been worked into the main narrative.

Based on Lucina's words in the chapter with Tiki, Lucina and Tiki never met in the future. Future Past is just an alternate world where things are different. 

3 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Not really, Nowi is pretty much a clone of young Tiki.

They don't even reference Mystery and Shadow Dragon with Awakening Tiki.

Other than the mistake of Lucina for Marth. 

[Soleater]

On 5/6/2018 at 8:01 PM, Jotari said:

Oh I don't object at all to Tiki being in the game, I just feel they didn't use her (and Lucina should have known everything Tiki tells the party anyway, since she attempted to use the Awakening already in the Future Past). Her role in Future Past was good and should have been worked into the main narrative.

So like, Tiki has to take the place of Naga in the main story because Awakening!Naga is killed by Grima or something?...Ngl that would have been cool

On 5/6/2018 at 8:18 PM, Emperor Hardin said:

Not really, Nowi is pretty much a clone of young Tiki.

They don't even reference Mystery and Shadow Dragon with Awakening Tiki.

Eh, I don't really feel that Nowi is a clone since Nowi is miles more mature than Tiki then (from what I've seen), she just acts like a child to make people more comfortable around her - better to play up her looks rather than to have to be bombarded with questions later (like with what Nyx had to deal with).

And what do you mean they don't reference Mystery and SD with Awakening Tiki?  She mentions quite frequently - such as mistaking Lucina for Marth, or telling Nah that she's going to suffer the same fate as she, losing people close to her, like Marth.

21 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Based on Lucina's words in the chapter with Tiki, Lucina and Tiki never met in the future. Future Past is just an alternate world where things are different. 

Other than the mistake of Lucina for Marth. 

A lot of things seem to be different in the Future Past, such as Lucina not recognizing Robin (when realistically, she would have if she knew her father for any length of time - you think that man wouldn't have trusted Robin with raising her when he was busy?), Tiki and Lucina knowing each other, as you said, and that Grima somehow figured out how to kill the Naga of their timeline, so Future Past probably isn't the best point of reference for judging the main game's own future.

[Jotari]

58 minutes ago, Soleater said:

So like, Tiki has to take the place of Naga in the main story because Awakening!Naga is killed by Grima or something?...Ngl that would have been cool

Eh, I don't really feel that Nowi is a clone since Nowi is miles more mature than Tiki then (from what I've seen), she just acts like a child to make people more comfortable around her - better to play up her looks rather than to have to be bombarded with questions later (like with what Nyx had to deal with).

And what do you mean they don't reference Mystery and SD with Awakening Tiki?  She mentions quite frequently - such as mistaking Lucina for Marth, or telling Nah that she's going to suffer the same fate as she, losing people close to her, like Marth.

A lot of things seem to be different in the Future Past, such as Lucina not recognizing Robin (when realistically, she would have if she knew her father for any length of time - you think that man wouldn't have trusted Robin with raising her when he was busy?), Tiki and Lucina knowing each other, as you said, and that Grima somehow figured out how to kill the Naga of their timeline, so Future Past probably isn't the best point of reference for judging the main game's own future.

I more meant Tiki being a figure of authority that Lucina knew and actively served to guide and advise the party.

[Soleater]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

I more meant Tiki being a figure of authority that Lucina knew and actively served to guide and advise the party.

That would be cool too honestly - or maybe more conversations between her and Nowi?

[Emperor Hardin]

4 hours ago, Soleater said:

Eh, I don't really feel that Nowi is a clone since Nowi is miles more mature than Tiki then (from what I've seen), she just acts like a child to make people more comfortable around her - better to play up her looks rather than to have to be bombarded with questions later (like with what Nyx had to deal with).

Thats mostly the localizers, in the original text, Nowi is actually a child.

4 hours ago, Soleater said:

And what do you mean they don't reference Mystery and SD with Awakening Tiki?  She mentions quite frequently - such as mistaking Lucina for Marth, or telling Nah that she's going to suffer the same fate as she, losing people close to her, like Marth

An obvious one, instead of keeping the Emblem Together like Marth wanted, Tiki is keeping it apart even though story indicates numerous reasons for it to be kept together for everyone, especially Tiki, wellbeing.

Even in Supports, Tiki, mainly mentions the First Exalt over Marth.

And speaking of Tiki's friends, she acts like Gotoh and Xane never existed.

Basically there is unanswered question/plothole after unanswered question/plothole with Awakening's depiction of Tiki.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[Soleater]

On 5/8/2018 at 12:55 AM, Emperor Hardin said:

Thats mostly the localizers, in the original text, Nowi is actually a child.

An obvious one, instead of keeping the Emblem Together like Marth wanted, Tiki is keeping it apart even though story indicates numerous reasons for it to be kept together for everyone, especially Tiki, wellbeing.

Even in Supports, Tiki, mainly mentions the First Exalt over Marth.

And speaking of Tiki's friends, she acts like Gotoh and Xane never existed.

Basically there is unanswered question/plothole after unanswered question/plothole with Awakening's depiction of Tiki.

Wait, in the original text Nowi is literally a child?  Was it Awakening that introduced the slow aging thing then, because otherwise wouldn't that kind of break canon??  (Because if she were a child, wouldn't she look like a baby, or maybe a toddler?)

Well, it was literally thousands of years later, and Tiki had been asleep for awhile - not to mention it was Flavia and Basilio that mentioned the Fire Emblem split, not Tiki, so she likely had nothing to do with that.

No idea about why the First Exalt is mentioned over Marth though, and I don't know about Gotoh or Xane, but maybe it's better that they have Tiki build new relationships rather than focus on older ones?  For the sake of developing her character beyond nostalgic wistfulness?

[Emperor Hardin]

41 minutes ago, Soleater said:

Wait, in the original text Nowi is literally a child?  Was it Awakening that introduced the slow aging thing then, because otherwise wouldn't that kind of break canon??  (Because if she were a child, wouldn't she look like a baby, or maybe a toddler?)

Well, it was literally thousands of years later, and Tiki had been asleep for awhile - not to mention it was Flavia and Basilio that mentioned the Fire Emblem split, not Tiki, so she likely had nothing to do with that.

No idea about why the First Exalt is mentioned over Marth though, and I don't know about Gotoh or Xane, but maybe it's better that they have Tiki build new relationships rather than focus on older ones?  For the sake of developing her character beyond nostalgic wistfulness?

Thats ALWAYS how it has been. Even in Awakening's english Harvest Scramble script, Nah says Manaketes are emotionally/mentally children until their bodies become adults. Think of it like Human years vs Dog Years. A Year old Dog has all the brainpower it needs, while a one year old human is an infant.

No, she directly mentions she was keeping it apart. Its bad continuity.

There is loads of plot importance, Xane could had done. There were even plans for him in the continuation of Archanea.

The thing is Tiki doesn't reference ANYTHING from Mystery, infact her portrayal directly contradicts most of it.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[omegaxis1]

32 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Thats ALWAYS how it has been. Even in Awakening's english Harvest Scramble script, Nah says Manaketes are emotionally/mentally children until their bodies become adults. Think of it like Human years vs Dog Years. A Year old Dog has all the brainpower it needs, while a one year old human is an infant.

No, she directly mentions she was keeping it apart. Its bad continuity.

There is loads of plot importance, Xane could had done. There were even plans for him in the continuation of Archanea.

The thing is Tiki doesn't reference ANYTHING from Mystery, infact her portrayal directly contradicts most of it.

Well, there are two things about that on why Tiki is keeping the Emblem apart now, in regards that she no longer needs it.

1) Based on the paralogue when we recruit her, it's indicated that Tiki has somehow more of her power sealed away and is accessed through a ritual, and even after the ritual is performed, she didn't regain all of it. Since the very dragon power itself is what causes the degeneration to occur, having the excess energy sealed off through said ritual means that she no longer needs the Shield of Seals.

2) Perhaps Tiki has matured at this point. I believe the reason that she needs the Shield of Seals is because her powers are too immature in New Mystery. Tiki even says in her Warriors Support with Navarre that she's too young and thus cannot use her powers to its full potential, and would need about another 1000-2000 years before she can. 

Another thing is that Manaketes ages even slower when they are asleep. Tiki, despite being 3000 years old, still appearing to be in her late teens to early 20s is more likely because she's slept through a large chunk of her life, since for almost 1000 years of her beginning years, she was forced to sleep by Naga and Gotoh. 

For all we know, Gotoh and Xane were killed, hence why she doesn't mention them. Only one that seems to possibly still be alive is Bantu.

Also, Tiki does talk about Marth plenty. Her supports with Robin and Lucina are about Marth after all. And even in her supports with Nah, she tells her the story of Marth. 

But I will agree, one of the biggest issues with Awakening is how MANY of the lores in the Archanea series somehow became ridiculously altered. 

[Soleater]

14 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Well, there are two things about that on why Tiki is keeping the Emblem apart now, in regards that she no longer needs it.

1) Based on the paralogue when we recruit her, it's indicated that Tiki has somehow more of her power sealed away and is accessed through a ritual, and even after the ritual is performed, she didn't regain all of it. Since the very dragon power itself is what causes the degeneration to occur, having the excess energy sealed off through said ritual means that she no longer needs the Shield of Seals.

2) Perhaps Tiki has matured at this point. I believe the reason that she needs the Shield of Seals is because her powers are too immature in New Mystery. Tiki even says in her Warriors Support with Navarre that she's too young and thus cannot use her powers to its full potential, and would need about another 1000-2000 years before she can. 

Another thing is that Manaketes ages even slower when they are asleep. Tiki, despite being 3000 years old, still appearing to be in her late teens to early 20s is more likely because she's slept through a large chunk of her life, since for almost 1000 years of her beginning years, she was forced to sleep by Naga and Gotoh. 

For all we know, Gotoh and Xane were killed, hence why she doesn't mention them. Only one that seems to possibly still be alive is Bantu.

Also, Tiki does talk about Marth plenty. Her supports with Robin and Lucina are about Marth after all. And even in her supports with Nah, she tells her the story of Marth. 

But I will agree, one of the biggest issues with Awakening is how MANY of the lores in the Archanea series somehow became ridiculously altered. 

Forgot about Tiki's supports tbh, thanks Omega ^^

I actually think a lot of these lore issues could be fixed the same way Grima was sorta fixed in Valentia - reremake of SD and (New) Mystery?  Since Grima was added in Valentia, I don't see why we could mention Taguels or something - shrugs -

Although I think it's a little weird that Awakening may or may not need to be "fixed" due to how much lore altering is going on, I think it's a good idea to try to tie all of that lore together into a coherent package - obviously some stuff may be lost, but just imagine recruiting a Taguel in SD or Mystery ^^ Doesn't even have to be a bunny, since birds, cats, lions, and wolves were all mentioned - Lion Taguel maybe?

It'd also be interesting to have Nowi's parents as either mentioned characters, cameos, or playable characters (or maybe Nagi was her mom?  Idk), just to make everything feel connected, instead of this disconnect that seems to be happening between Mystery/SD and Awakening.

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Soleater said:

Forgot about Tiki's supports tbh, thanks Omega ^^

I actually think a lot of these lore issues could be fixed the same way Grima was sorta fixed in Valentia - reremake of SD and (New) Mystery?  Since Grima was added in Valentia, I don't see why we could mention Taguels or something - shrugs -

Although I think it's a little weird that Awakening may or may not need to be "fixed" due to how much lore altering is going on, I think it's a good idea to try to tie all of that lore together into a coherent package - obviously some stuff may be lost, but just imagine recruiting a Taguel in SD or Mystery ^^ Doesn't even have to be a bunny, since birds, cats, lions, and wolves were all mentioned - Lion Taguel maybe?

It'd also be interesting to have Nowi's parents as either mentioned characters, cameos, or playable characters (or maybe Nagi was her mom?  Idk), just to make everything feel connected, instead of this disconnect that seems to be happening between Mystery/SD and Awakening.

Awakening itself doesn't need to be "fixed" per se. In fact, what's REALLY needed is a game or story about the First Exalt. Because that is the very point when all the lores had changed.

[Soleater]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Awakening itself doesn't need to be "fixed" per se. In fact, what's REALLY needed is a game or story about the First Exalt. Because that is the very point when all the lores had changed.

Well, yeah good point - I'm just saying how Valentia needed to come and give Grima's backstory, so maybe they are going to/should try to tie things back together with reremakes or more games in the Archneaian series?  Actually...A game set in the perspective of the First Exalt would probably be for the best, since you could give light to Grima, Taguels, Tiki, the Fire Emblem, and Nowi all in own fell swoop.

...Dang it now I want a game in the First Exalt's perspective ^^"

[omegaxis1]

24 minutes ago, Soleater said:

Well, yeah good point - I'm just saying how Valentia needed to come and give Grima's backstory, so maybe they are going to/should try to tie things back together with reremakes or more games in the Archneaian series?  Actually...A game set in the perspective of the First Exalt would probably be for the best, since you could give light to Grima, Taguels, Tiki, the Fire Emblem, and Nowi all in own fell swoop.

...Dang it now I want a game in the First Exalt's perspective ^^"

I do and do not at the same time.

This is cause while I would like a story about the First Exalt, at the same time, my friend and I want to make our own and having an official one might have issues with us.

[Soleater]

7 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I do and do not at the same time.

This is cause while I would like a story about the First Exalt, at the same time, my friend and I want to make our own and having an official one might have issues with us.

That's totally understandable - I'd like a story about Chrom's father during the Plegian excursion, but I have my own ideas about it, and I'm not sure I'd like to give up my ideas (Chrom's right hand knight being Frederick's mom, and a Fire/Ice hybrid dragon looking for Nowi as your playable Manakete, for example).

[Emperor Hardin]

1 hour ago, Soleater said:

Although I think it's a little weird that Awakening may or may not need to be "fixed" due to how much lore altering is going on, I think it's a good idea to try to tie all of that lore together into a coherent package - obviously some stuff may be lost, but just imagine recruiting a Taguel in SD or Mystery ^^ Doesn't even have to be a bunny, since birds, cats, lions, and wolves were all mentioned - Lion Taguel maybe?

It'd also be interesting to have Nowi's parents as either mentioned characters, cameos, or playable characters (or maybe Nagi was her mom?  Idk), just to make everything feel connected, instead of this disconnect that seems to be happening between Mystery/SD and Awakening.

Stuff like retconning in Taguel into Shadow Dragon would be terrible in my honest to god opinion.

[omegaxis1]

23 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Stuff like retconning in Taguel into Shadow Dragon would be terrible in my honest to god opinion.

As much as I love Awakening, the taguel was a big mistake. Yes, an obvious reference to the laguz of the Tellius series, but it's the one lore that absolutely doesn't fit. You can make easy theories and scenarios for the other parts, but this one is too much. Also, I doubt they can have the taguel be part of the Archanea series. That's because even in Echoes, they showed no signs of the taguel. 

Also, because Panne states that she was just an infant when her kind were slaughtered and their culture was lost, this was likely intentionally done so that there need no explanation on it. But then Panne tends to contradict herself by explaining other things about the taguel. 

The best I'm sure they might come up with is that they are a recent species that evolved from animals hundreds of years after Marth's time, like maybe a century or so before the First Exalt. 

[Emperor Hardin]

57 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

As much as I love Awakening, the taguel was a big mistake. Yes, an obvious reference to the laguz of the Tellius series, but it's the one lore that absolutely doesn't fit. You can make easy theories and scenarios for the other parts, but this one is too much. Also, I doubt they can have the taguel be part of the Archanea series. That's because even in Echoes, they showed no signs of the taguel. 

Also, because Panne states that she was just an infant when her kind were slaughtered and their culture was lost, this was likely intentionally done so that there need no explanation on it. But then Panne tends to contradict herself by explaining other things about the taguel. 

The best I'm sure they might come up with is that they are a recent species that evolved from animals hundreds of years after Marth's time, like maybe a century or so before the First Exalt. 

Or maybe the Taguel are travelers from another world through the out realm gate, similar to other spot pass content.

If they wanted to put in something from Tellius, they should've just put in playable Soldiers I think. Its easier to do, is an extremely popular class and doesn't break the lore.

Also it'd give an appealing non mounted lance user, especially with the nerf to Knight/General Aesthetics.

[omegaxis1]

15 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Or maybe the Taguel are travelers from another world through the out realm gate, similar to other spot pass content.

If they wanted to put in something from Tellius, they should've just put in playable Soldiers I think. Its easier to do, is an extremely popular class and doesn't break the lore.

Also it'd give an appealing non mounted lance user, especially with the nerf to Knight/General Aesthetics.

Crack theory: the taguel are the laguz that have seemingly lost their powers from mating with humans. But eventually they discovered that they haven't truly lost their powers, but they have in fact been sealed away and the laguz learned how to draw these animal powers out as stones. 

[Soleater]

6 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

As much as I love Awakening, the taguel was a big mistake. Yes, an obvious reference to the laguz of the Tellius series, but it's the one lore that absolutely doesn't fit. You can make easy theories and scenarios for the other parts, but this one is too much. Also, I doubt they can have the taguel be part of the Archanea series. That's because even in Echoes, they showed no signs of the taguel. 

Also, because Panne states that she was just an infant when her kind were slaughtered and their culture was lost, this was likely intentionally done so that there need no explanation on it. But then Panne tends to contradict herself by explaining other things about the taguel. 

The best I'm sure they might come up with is that they are a recent species that evolved from animals hundreds of years after Marth's time, like maybe a century or so before the First Exalt. 

I actually like the idea of Taguel, because what you know about them could be completely false.  You only have one (shaky at best) eyewitness for the slaughter and lives of the Taguel, and Emmeryn who "heard" about the atrocities that were committed - you could have a completely different backstory, and just call Panne misinformed.

And since she was an infant (as far as she knows), she was probably raised by human foster parents (how else could she survive on her own as an infant), so you could have something else entirely instead of, well, retconning them into the story.  Maybe the continent they were on was a different one from Archenea, or maybe the person who slaughtered them wasn't Ylissian are all - the possibilities are endless because Panne is a faulty source of information.  (And Yarne can be thrown completely out of the equation)

So you could actually have the Taguel, and something different from Laguz, without retconning them into SD or Mystery - just have Panne be an unreliable source of information.  (She already kind of is)

4 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Crack theory: the taguel are the laguz that have seemingly lost their powers from mating with humans. But eventually they discovered that they haven't truly lost their powers, but they have in fact been sealed away and the laguz learned how to draw these animal powers out as stones. 

...That's actually not a terrible idea, since Taguel seem to be people taking on an animal form (or something like Selkies), rather than Manaketes, who are non-humans taking on a human form.  I'd honestly buy that (but if you wanted to make this separate from the Tellius games, maybe not Laguz?  idk since Owain seems to know who Ike is so *shrug*)

[Emperor Hardin]

19 minutes ago, Soleater said:

And since she was an infant (as far as she knows), she was probably raised by human foster parents (how else could she survive on her own as an infant), so you could have something else entirely instead of, well, retconning them into the story.  Maybe the continent they were on was a different one from Archenea, or maybe the person who slaughtered them wasn't Ylissian are all - the possibilities are endless because Panne is a faulty source of information. 

Do you mean Ylisse the continent or Ylisse the country?

[Soleater]

1 hour ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Do you mean Ylisse the continent or Ylisse the country?

Country - I thought the continent was still called Archenea?

[Emperor Hardin]

4 minutes ago, Soleater said:

Country - I thought the continent was still called Archenea?

The continent is called Ylisse in Awakening.

Panne never indicated Ylisse the country had anything to do with the genocide and stated the Ylisse Kingdom and its rulers have always supported taguel.

[Soleater]

1 minute ago, Emperor Hardin said:

The continent is called Ylisse in Awakening.

Panne never indicated Ylisse the country had anything to do with the genocide and stated the Ylisse Kingdom and its rulers have always supported taguel.

Panne: Yes, it's precious little your kind seem to understand. It was man-spawn like you that invaded our warren and slaughtered my people.

I always took this that this meant it was Ylissians that killed the last of the Taguel.

[Emperor Hardin]

1 minute ago, Soleater said:

Panne: Yes, it's precious little your kind seem to understand. It was man-spawn like you that invaded our warren and slaughtered my people.

I always took this that this meant it was Ylissians that killed the last of the Taguel.

She means fellow man-spawn IE: humans.

She states she fights for Ylisse as the country and its exalt have always supported them. Some supports also show she is hostile to Plegia.