FE Heroes English Voice Acting: Ranked

[Ice Dragon]

5 minutes ago, Logos said:

However, it still doesn't excuse the artists decision to still make them look slightly younger than they are supposed to be, and just stick to his normal style.

Heroes's Lachesis looks no younger than just about every one of Miwabe's girls on her Pixiv except Tenryuu and about as old as her Sonoda and Ayase (who are canonically 16 and 17) (though that's mostly because of Lachesis's puffy cheeks).

I'm not seeing any problem.

 

18 minutes ago, Logos said:

and in fact all of the girls are drawn to be about the same height

I'm not sure why you're assuming character art is scaled relative to each other (instead of relative to the screen). Nino would be about 8 inches than Hawkeye if they were to scale with each other.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I wouldn't make the assumption that many or even any of the Heroes artists and voice actors are aware of canonical ages wherever they apply. Look at Hector's art, and his voice. Hector is 17 at the beginning of Eliwood/Hector Mode. Something you'd only know from doing a bit of math out of his support conversation with Eliwood. 

[Ice Dragon]

43 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

I wouldn't make the assumption that many or even any of the Heroes artists and voice actors are aware of canonical ages wherever they apply. Look at Hector's art, and his voice. Hector is 17 at the beginning of Eliwood/Hector Mode. Something you'd only know from doing a bit of math out of his support conversation with Eliwood. 

Maybe the English voice actors just aren't good at sounding younger than they do. Hector has no problem passing for his age in Japanese (the same guy does Yuri Lowell and Inuzuka Kiba).

Most, if not all, of the artists have done art of Fire Emblem in the past, whether fan art, official art, or Cipher card art, and I'm sure the voice actors and sound staff have more to go by than just the Heroes art.

[TheWill]

I agree with a large majority of your post, although two things I think you missed the ball completely are: 

On 1/8/2018 at 11:10 AM, KoolioKenneth said:

1. Lachesis - Cristina Valenzuela:
This one is one of my least favorites, personally. While Valenzuela has had many good roles in the FE series, like Athena and Tatiana, her role as Lachesis is definitely not one of them. 

Honestly, Valenzuela's one of the best voice actors to join the Fire Emblem line-up. I don't see any issues of her rendition of Lachesis, she does the more stronger characters quite well (Riven, Athena, Lachesis). On the other hand, at least from what I found with Tatiana, she didn't portray the demure nature of her as well as she does with the more confident counterparts. 

On 1/8/2018 at 11:10 AM, KoolioKenneth said:

8. Gwendolyn - Cherami Leigh:
Gwendolyn sounds exactly like Caeda, and without any of the personality to go with it. This caused Gwendolyn to become generally forgettable, which should never be said for an FE character that made it into Heroes.

I completely disagree with this. The issue is the exact opposite. Caeda's quotes were completely unremarkable, unlike Gwendolyn who oozes character. The latter has some of the best voiced 'special activation' lines in the entirety of Heroes. 

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Heroes's Lachesis looks no younger than just about every one of Miwabe's girls on her Pixiv except Tenryuu and about as old as her Sonoda and Ayase (who are canonically 16 and 17) (though that's mostly because of Lachesis's puffy cheeks)

If Lachesis's artist attempted to make her seem like someone in late adolescence (basically, a young woman), they absolutely failed. The artist choice was just... bad. I think the same for Lachesis' Cipher art, as well.

I'm a bit confused as to why you have an issue with people who find the disconnect between Lachesis's art and her as a character, as it's a pretty commonplace opinion.

Edited January 10, 2018 by SlipperySlippy

[Ice Dragon]

32 minutes ago, SlipperySlippy said:

If Lachesis's artist attempted to make her seem like someone in late adolescence (basically, a young woman), they absolutely failed. The artist choice was just... bad. I think the same for Lachesis' Cipher art, as well.

In general, people don't criticize Picasso for rendering some of the most untrue-to-life humans depicted in art because that is what his art style (and the artistic movement he was a part of) simply was. The anime movement similarly does not render humans in a true-to-life manner, but in a different way. However, any good artist in the movement is at least internally consistent (within a time frame where improvements in skill are not drastic).

If you compare Lachesis's Heroes art to the rest of Miwabe's art, I believe Miwabe succeeded in conveying an age range around 16-18 (mid to late high school). As I previously mentioned, you simply cannot compare two artists with different styles to each other without normalizing the comparison to account for the differences in styles (for example, from my perspective, Lachesis's Heroes art makes her look older than Lilina in her Heroes art).

It's not too different from, say, the fact that when giving the brightness of a CFL light bulb (in watts, which is a unit of power consumption), you don't use the actual power consumption of the CFL, but the power consumption of an incandescent light bulb of the same brightness. When using eyes or face shape to compare the apparent ages of characters drawn by different artists, you compare how much they differ from the artist's style's baselines and now how much they differ absolutely from each other. Using my previous example, Lachesis's eyes are smaller than baseline for Miwabe, but Lilina's eyes are approximately equal to or slightly larger than baseline for BUNBUN.

Anime is an art style that doesn't reflect real life as it is, but in an idealized form from the artist's perspective. Artists are allowed to determine for themselves what their baselines are for proportions, meaning their depiction of age may not match with the depiction of age from another artist. As mentioned previously, the characters of K-On! and the (high-school-aged) characters of Bakemonogatari are the same age (give or take 1 year), but have different baseline facial proportions and therefore look different ages when compared one-by-one and side-by-side without the context of other characters from the same source.

 

55 minutes ago, SlipperySlippy said:

I'm a bit confused as to why you have an issue with people who find the disconnect between Lachesis's art and her as a character, as it's a pretty commonplace opinion.

Because amateur criticisms of art are usually what it revolves around.

My personal opinion is that her art and personality match each other and it is her English voice that doesn't match (and I will admit that I have a bias against English voice acting). My theory is that the commonplace opinion assumes her voice and personality match and/or is inexperienced with art (big eyes don't suggest youth, bigger eyes suggest youth), which results in the belief that her art is the piece that's at fault.

You might not like the bigger eyes, but that doesn't make it wrong (because it still suggests the correct age).

On the other hand, I think the English voices for Lachesis are off the mark when compared to her personality. I don't think she's supposed to sound as serious business as she does in English.

[TheWill]

2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The anime movement similarly does not render humans in a true-to-life manner, but in a different way. However, any good artist in the movement is at least internally consistent (within a time frame where improvements in skill are not drastic).

'Anime' covers such a broad range of art styles, though. There are anime artstyles that adopt realistic human proportions. For example, Soeda Ippei.

4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

If you compare Lachesis's Heroes art to the rest of Miwabe's art, I believe Miwabe succeeded in conveying an age range around 16-18 (mid to late high school). As I previously mentioned, you simply cannot compare two artists with different styles to each other without normalizing the comparison to account for the differences in styles (for example, from my perspective, Lachesis's Heroes art makes her look older than Lilina in her Heroes art).

Well honestly, I can't possibly fathom how one could see Miwabe's rendition of Lachesis (and to a lesser degree, Est) as nothing more than a young girl. But that's the issue, I suppose, with this whole discussion and I'm not sure why you're perpetuating this discussion due to how subjective it is. Lachesis being young-looking is a commonplace opinion and whilst I'm glad you personally see the detail Miwabe articulates in his art to depict Lachesis/Est as older (in comparison to say, Delthea), to the average consumer these details just aren't prevalent enough to give the impression that these characters are older.

15 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Anime is an art style that doesn't reflect real life as it is, but in an idealized form from the artist's perspective. Artists are allowed to determine for themselves what their baselines are for proportions, meaning their depiction of age may not match with the depiction of age from another artist. As mentioned previously, the characters of K-On! and the (high-school-aged) characters of Bakemonogatari are the same age (give or take 1 year), but have different baseline facial proportions and therefore look different ages when compared one-by-one and side-by-side without the context of other characters from the same source.

Whilst I ultimately agree with what you're saying from a generalized perspective, you're ignoring how consumers interpret the artwork which is just as essential component as the techniques the artist used to convey a message (in this case, age). You bring up K-On!'s artstyle as reference, however I absolutely think K-On! fails at portraying an even believable notion that the characters are 18 years old. 

27 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

My personal opinion is that her art and personality match each other and it is her English voice that doesn't match (and I will admit that I have a bias against English voice acting). My theory is that the commonplace opinion assumes her voice and personality match and/or is inexperienced with art (big eyes don't suggest youth, bigger eyes suggest youth), which results in the belief that her art is the piece that's at fault.

I absolutely disagree here, there's a massive disconnect between the Japanese rendition and the English rendition of Lachesis. Lachesis, at least from my understanding, is meant to be prideful, strong-willed and capable young, noble woman. Cristina Valenzuela was most definitely used to (and was a great choice for) help convey this portrayal. Her Japanese voice, on the other hand, seems to heavily focus on being the cute, little sister and almost sounds dependent. She's reminiscent to characters like Suguha from Sword Art Online. This may be a localization decision (as that trope was prevalent in Japan for awhile) to steer away from their depiction of Lachesis, to instead focus on her being an independent noble woman, but I for one am absolutely glad they went that route instead. 

The problem with Lachesis's art isn't that the eyes are too big, it's the dissonance created between the character and artwork. Referring back to Soeda Ippei, it would be incredibly jarring if he done a character like Nino or Amelia in the same style that he has done Dorcas or Arden. Lachesis is most comparable to Eirika, however Miwabe's art is clearly more suited for the likes of characters such as Mist and Delthea. This fan artwork of Lachesis definitely seems more suited than both the Heroes & Cipher artist's rendition of Lachesis. 

[Ice Dragon]

9 hours ago, SlipperySlippy said:

'Anime' covers such a broad range of art styles, though. There are anime artstyles that adopt realistic human proportions. For example, Soeda Ippei.

But that's my point exactly. There is no baseline for the style as a whole. Each artist can set their own baselines.

The existence of artists that use a more true to life baseline for facial proportions doesn't contradict anything I have said.

 

9 hours ago, SlipperySlippy said:

Whilst I ultimately agree with what you're saying from a generalized perspective, you're ignoring how consumers interpret the artwork which is just as essential component as the techniques the artist used to convey a message (in this case, age).

You're basically saying so-and-so's art style is wrong because people not familiar with the style or movement won't interpret it correctly.

Or that the rules of football or baseball are wrong because people not familiar with the sport (and not familiar with similar sports) can't easily figure them out.

 

9 hours ago, SlipperySlippy said:

You bring up K-On!'s artstyle as reference, however I absolutely think K-On! fails at portraying an even believable notion that the characters are 18 years old. 

I've seen interns (from college) and new hires (college grads) that look like they could have come straight out of a KyoAni anime. Heck, I was told that I looked 15 years old or younger when I first started my current job (I was 23).

On a serious note, though, I think that just mostly means you lack breadth of exposure to the art style. Kemono Friends has an even more extreme distortion of proportions (it's rare to see an entire work that is so close to chibi proportions without quite being there) that even threw me for a loop (ignoring the fact that the characters are all 3DCG), but I got used to it after a few episodes.

Asians also don't begin aging until they're like 30.

 

9 hours ago, SlipperySlippy said:

Referring back to Soeda Ippei, it would be incredibly jarring if he done a character like Nino or Amelia in the same style that he has done Dorcas or Arden.

I have no experience with Soeda's skill in drawing female characters, but I have seen anime artists who use true to life facial proportions do very convincingly cute female characters. The problem is more getting the art to look like the character it's supposed to be (works fine for original characters and characters coming from video games with a photo-realistic or more true-to-life anime art style to begin with for obvious reasons) because the mainstream style for female faces is far more different from reality than the mainstream style for male faces.

 

9 hours ago, SlipperySlippy said:

Lachesis is most comparable to Eirika, however Miwabe's art is clearly more suited for the likes of characters such as Mist and Delthea. This fan artwork of Lachesis definitely seems more suited than both the Heroes & Cipher artist's rendition of Lachesis. 

All I'm getting from this is just that people don't like slightly more cutesy art styles for slightly less cutesy characters.

 

EDIT: One more thing:

9 hours ago, SlipperySlippy said:

But that's the issue, I suppose, with this whole discussion and I'm not sure why you're perpetuating this discussion due to how subjective it is.

Why I argue: I like to see how other people think and why they think the way they do. This sort of thing also helps me solidify my vague thoughts into words and lets me see where I may be mistaken in my gut feelings.

Also because people being wrong on the internet is serious business.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[Charmeleonbrah]

I actually came here to post that Lachesis's voice acting is one of my favorites.  Everytime I use her I laugh, because the voice does not remotely match up with the character.  She's a 15 year old girl with the voice and lines of a jaded 40-something chainsmoker. 

I also like Cherche, Elise, Raven, and Camilla's voice acting. 

It's not up to debate that Nino's "Do my best!" is the best line in the series.

In general though, Japanese voice actors are better than the English ones.

Edited January 11, 2018 by Charmeleonbrah

[The Lord Of Gems]

I personally like Eliwood's voice. It may sound like Marth's, but it still fits.

[Doodlebug Four]

Cream of the Crop Castings:

Patrick Seitz as Hector

Wendee Lee as Lyn

Jamieson Price as Hawkeye

Kate Higgins as Serra

Michael Sinterniklaas as Lucius

Cindy Robinson as Minerva (Her Minerva is too good to not mention over her disappointing takes on Hinoka and Peri)

Robert Clotworthy as Black Knight

Imari Williams as Valter

DC Douglas as Barst

Brina Palenica as Lute

Todd Haberkorn as Joshua

Travis Willingham as Lon'qu

Kyle McCarley as Alm

Erica Lindbeck as Celica

Greg Chun as Lukas

Cherami Leigh as Mae

Keith Silverstein as Saber

Tara Sands as Sonya

Ian Sinclair as Berkut

Heather Watson as Fjorm

All of Christopher Smith's roles are way too good so they tie (Reinhart, Seth, and Legion)

 

The Not so Great:

Bryce Papenbrook as Karel

Sam Riegal as Raigh

Michelle Ruff as Soleil

Julie Kliewer as Lilina

David Stanbra as Xander

And although on the Japanese side, I found most of Junji Majima's roles other than Black Knight to sound so samey.

[Rapier]

On 08/01/2018 at 6:02 AM, KoolioKenneth said:

It has come to my attention that the problem with Lachesis is not her voice, but her art. At least, that's the consensus among the FE community and the sub-reddits. My apologies; I did not mean to misinform you all.

Her art does seem moe, but Lachesis was a late teen/early adult on FE4. It doesn't make sense to give her a voice that makes her seem that much older. Also, as much as I like her VA (I loved her as Four from Drakengard 3), her voice sounded dull and bored on Lachesis.

FEH has great VAs, but unfortunately the directing sucks and/or they're not being paid enough to give more effort.