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Armagon

Would you like to see more interactivity in battles?

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This idea was brought to my attention by a good friend of mine. And honestly, i agree. Having some sort of interactivity in battles similar to the Mario RPG games would make battles feel more fresh. He does mention in that thread about having a string of buttons to input for a better critical hit but i disagree with that part since it's RNG so you don't really have time to prepare. But the rest sounds like a solid idea.

What do you think?

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The Thing is, How would it be done? I don't think something like M&L will work with FE tbh, but if we get something like ''Action Points'' we can spend per battle, with skills costing certain points for example, that might work, but will be too much of a change, me thinks

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4 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

The Thing is, How would it be done? I don't think something like M&L will work with FE tbh, but if we get something like ''Action Points'' we can spend per battle, with skills costing certain points for example, that might work, but will be too much of a change, me thinks

It shouldn't be that hard to implement. The attack will happen regardless. Pressing the button at the right time just makes the attack hit harder. It won't be like M&L in the sense where some attacks outright fail if the button isn't pressed at the right time.

As for the Action Points, i think i'd just be easier to bring back the Arts from SoV.

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I think QTEs, which is basically what you're saying, work for the Mario RPGs, since the core of the Mario franchise is Platformers. The use of Action Commands can be seen as an effort to retain reflexive elements and liveliness derived from platforming.

FE is already a set of dice rolls in part, adding more variability, but variability a player can control, would be workable, if perhaps too much variability for some (and QTEs in video games sometimes attract controversy for being unnecessary). If there were reduce incoming damage commands, I can't see a number of players on Classic relying on them, since a permadeath because your reflexes were a little off would be a thought they don't want to see real. 

Enemy and player stats would partly have to be made with QTEs in mind, since if you make it like the player fails everything/not thinking about the QTE factor at all, everything will be a little bit too easy. If you emphasize a perfect record of QTE performance, that might make things too harsh. Starting with a fair 100% fail base value and then adding as much HP/whatever other stat would be affected based on the effects of 50% QTE performance would be tricky to calculate (player stats being variable with growth rates and people using different characters under different circumstances), but perhaps the best answer.

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Doesn't sound good to me. FE's just not that kind of game, you know? I'd certainly be willing to try it though.

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I don't really think it has its place in Fire Emblem. In Paper Mario, battles are the main focus of the gameplay since its a traditional RPG. Thus making it feel interactive is essential if you want the player to stay engaged. But in FE, achieving the map objective is the main focus. Fighting is an essential part of achieving the objective, but it's not the focus of the game. When I play FE, it's not to have immersive, interactive fights, but to solve a strategical "puzzle". I had so much fun playing through Conquest because a lot of maps required me to plan before going in and then adapt my strategy during the map due to various events or situations. Having the strategical element continually interrupted by combat would just break the flow of the game for me while for now, you can basically skip combat animations to keep the focus on achieving the objective. 

 

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People didn't like it particularly much in the Project X Zone games due to enemy amount, I doubt they'd like it in FE either.

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Hmm...

I'd say if it was reserved for bosses or certain enemies, it'd alleviate the problem of tedium that'd come from having to make inputs with every encounter.

But FE in particular has never done anything like this.  There would probably be a somewhat cold reception to it, even if it was implemented as I suggested.  But if they pulled off this interactive element well, then maybe it could be fun.  It really depends.

Best left to be experimented on in a different IP or a spin-off.

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I actually thought that Fire Emblem used something similar to the M&L series with it's combat before I had actually played the games. I thought you could choose what kind of attack you had beforehand (such as choosing shield-breaker to lower an enemies defense, or sword dance to attack four times (I thought that Marth's/Roy's/Ike's moves in Super Smash Bros were actually from their base games, even though only Aether and counter really were)), and then you'd need to input the commands correctly to do efficient damage. 

As for the question itself, I say'd no, as it would lengthen already long levels, and it would probably be tiring to the player considering how many individual battles there are even on the early maps.

That being said, I would like it as an option if the game has New game+, as long as you can turn it on and off at will.

(When I originally read the title, I thought you meant that the characters would interact more with each other, where a dual strike looks like a more like a preplanned combination attack that both characters rehearsed beforehand rather than their partner suddenly deciding to attack. Having unique victory animations between characters would also be cool.)

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They're called Action Commands.

And my answer is yes only if we get that Paper Mario x Fire Emblem crossover that weirdos like me have dreampt up. Otherwise no. I love Mario RPGs, and Legend of Dragoon, but Fire Emblem never asks the player to test their reflexes or practice combat rhythms. Getting used to character attack animations when there's hundreds in a fire Emblem game, it's too much, they'd have to slow down and simplify all the animations in order to create tells. When really at the end of the day I'd prefer the combat to have real choreography. The numbers are all I need to stay engaged with battles.

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I wouldn't like it. Do you know how many battles occur within a chapter? Would become tedious after a while.

It also removes elements such as hit rates and critical rates, and I like leaving those to chance. It creates more variability, and when something goes wrong, that merely means you must go into overdrive to find a solution out. As fun as action commands can be, I don't think they'll work for FE, because FE works mechanically different.

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4 hours ago, Hardin said:

There are a lot of battles occurring on each map, I think this would get tedious really fast 

This.

People sometimes need to remember that not all wishes are from Genie from Aladdin. Most are Monkey-Paw wishes. 90% of what sounds good in your head is garbage both on paper and in practice, and you would probably not be any happier than before.

Without even getting into the balance implications, I could see it working in some sort of spinoff game that focused less on the tactical elements, but for a game where you literally fight 1000+ dudes over the course of the game, this would get INCREDIBLY tedious and wear out its welcome very quickly.

It would also slow down the game a lot. One of the best modern implementations of FE has been the fastforward and quick skip options for battle animations. Imagine if every fight suddenly needed input. These new quality of life improvements now hinder your ability to play the game.

You could do something like XCOM and do more with how combat is actually handled, introducing more factors for each individual turn(IE You can move and attack, move beyond your normal movement range, or something else with your actions), but at this point... Why would I play Fire Emblem? I could just play XCOM.

Just keep Fire Emblem Fire Emblem.

Edited by Slumber

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2 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

(When I originally read the title, I thought you meant that the characters would interact more with each other, where a dual strike looks like a more like a preplanned combination attack that both characters rehearsed beforehand rather than their partner suddenly deciding to attack. Having unique victory animations between characters would also be cool.)

That was actually mentioned in the tweet i linked to. 

Having unique dual attacks depending on who's paired up with who would be very nice.

 

Now that i've given it some thought, i do think having the inputs in a spin-off game would work much better.

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4 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Now that i've given it some thought, i do think having the inputs in a spin-off game would work much better.

If IS has any time to make a game featuring action commands, but it's a Fire Emblem spinoff instead of Paper Mario 3, I'm going to scream.

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Personally, if a new mechanic idea for a new fire emblem game seems out there, I think it's best left thrown away, this would not feel like fire emblem, its the same as command lists in theory, give me a good reason why I should want a fire emblem with command lists, when disgaea or final fantasy tactics or literally any other strategy RPG exists, why play fire emblem at that point? rhythmic combat is not fire emblem, it's like playing chess but every time you try to take a piece you instead must win a game of patty cake to determine if you actually get to take the piece or if you fall victim to a counter attack. Sure there is more investment on my part, but is it even strategy any more?

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1 hour ago, Glennstavos said:

If IS has any time to make a game featuring action commands, but it's a Fire Emblem spinoff instead of Paper Mario 3, I'm going to scream.

But what if it was Paper Emblem?

And technically we already have a Paper Mario 3 with SPM, and a 4th with SS, and a 5th with CS.

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7 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

But what if it was Paper Emblem?

See: my first post.

Quote

And technically we already have a Paper Mario 3 with SPM, and a 4th with SS, and a 5th with CS.

#NotMyPaperMario

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To echo everybody else, it just seems like something that would get frustrating very quickly. I'd prefer if they do more with the battle animations instead to give me a reason to not want to skip the animations (the first time through). They keep improving this with every game iteration, and I'm really looking forward to what they come up with on the Switch.

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8 minutes ago, YingofDarkness said:

I'd prefer if they do more with the battle animations instead to give me a reason to not want to skip the animations (the first time through).

YES PLEASE!!

If they can add the awesome crits of the GBA games into 3d/HD models, then that would be awesome!

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A game with a central mechanic theme of tactical dueling now has this very theme undermined with QuickTime events. 

 

 

This is like Assassin’s Creed giving you all these weapons and tool, but none of them are used because QuickTime allows you to slay a hundred people with a sword alone. 

 

 

Nah. 

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1 hour ago, Lord_Grima said:

If they can add the awesome crits of the GBA games into 3d/HD models, then that would be awesome!

They already did the Sage one. It's called the RD non-fatal Sage/Archsage crit. The Swordmaster crit has already been done as well, since it's just Astra. I think Ike's Aether is heavily inspired by the Mercenary/Hero crit as well- throws weapon in air and then catches it slamming down on the foe. The Reaver class's Colossus is somewhat like the Warrior critical, though the can opener hit is toned down, and the spinning actually hits the enemy. A hint of all the twirling of the Generals/Snipers can be found in the Marshals/Marksmens' crits. Nothing akin to the Nomad Trooper critical though, or Druid, Bishop, Berserker, or Thief and Assassin though.

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For me, QTE's have no place in FE and I would be kind of insulted if they were forced upon me. If IS decided to implement it, I would really hope we have the option to turn it off. Some suggest only QTE's during boss battles, but even that seems silly to me. It really just feels out of place in FE. Maybe you could do QTE's during the story, again, with the option of turning those off.

Overall, I firmly believe that QTE's don't benefit Fire Emblems design in any way. I do like the implementation of arts with SoV. And if they were to expand upon that by adding Luna, Sol, Aether, Astra, etc. to it then I'd be fine with that. To me it seems like that best way of innovating combat to be a little more interactive. FE isn't really designed to be interactive during the combat animations, it's designed to make you think strategically with your units to meet an objective, and uses combat as a strategy element. 

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Fire Emblem is a strategy game, first and foremost. I play my pieces against the enemy, and if I don't like how the numbers look, I use my pieces differently. I don't want my unit to under perform because I messed up an input that already happens too much in FEH. I've seen similar elements in games like Valkryia Chronicles (turn based but you can also aim your weapons for better damage/accuracy) but it would feel very unlike Fire Emblem to me.

Edited by NekoKnight

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The people saying QTE's exist in Paper Mario because it is "an spin off of an action franchise" are totally oblivious to similar (or more hands on) systems in other RPGs, such as Shadow Hearts"Covenant, Legend off Dragoon, etc and no, I'm not talking about full on action RPGs.

 

I think that these kind of systems help RPGs, because they are in need of preventing normal random battles feel pointless after a while, and it allows you to have an exciting (underleveled) alternative when going against boss fights.  

Fire Emblem on the other hand shouldn't need it, because random battles (as seen in FE8 , Awakening, Shadows of Valentia) should be avoided, and enemy density per chapter, even in bandit chapters early on, is a bit too high considering you would need a different animation set to time the QTE's with all the different classes instead of just learning 4-6 or so for your party in an RPG. 

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