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RandomSwordmaster

Grand Hero Battle: Lyon

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8 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:
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Love his art but those stats... He's like a slightly tweaked Sophia with only a stronger Raven tome to set him apart, and no variable nature to take advantage of.

I want to make him the strongest he can be. What should his build be? TA3/Bowbreaker/support/Distant Def? Or maybe use Swordbreaker and QR seal for more coverage?

 

He could run Quick Riposte if he were to run Distant Defense seal, Def + 3 seal, or receive a Def buff (ie. ally's Fortify Def 2/3). And he'd definitely want Glacies or Iceberg (Iceberg ensures kills during enemy phase while Glacies means that he can nuke something during player phase after KOing or greatly weakening something during enemy phase).

Edited by Roflolxp54

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10 minutes ago, Lord_Grima said:

TA3/Bowbreaker/Distant Def hard counters a +10 Merge/+Atk/Brave Bow+/Death Blow 3/Full Horse Buffed Brave Lyn. So, if you want to use him as a Brave Lyn Counter, he is pretty good!

As with other Low spd mages, Desperation/Brash Assault would do well. Swordbreaker doesn't help in the enemy phase(If you want to use QR Seal) unless you give him Close Counter.

I was thinking QR for enemy phase ranged countering and killing swords on player phase with Sword Breaker (is 48 attack enough to kill many swordies?)

Desperation/Brash Assault huh... Not sure how I feel about a build that only works when you're at lower than 50% health.

 

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Spoiler

Lyon is basically a better Sophia but Sophia has better potential due to merges and IVs.

Naglfar has the potential to be refined and get better which it definitely should at some point.

 

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2 minutes ago, Lushen said:
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Lyon is basically a better Sophia but Sophia has better potential due to merges and IVs.

Naglfar has the potential to be refined and get better which it definitely should at some point.

 

Spoiler

It seems doubtful it will get refinded seeing as how they're rather picky about which legendaries get it, not to mention that they already passed over Raven tomes.

 

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Guess I'll give him fury, QR, atk ploy and DD. For special Iceberg, but I don't have any on me right now so Glacies it is then.

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His Legendary Tome is a bit underwhelming, but considering I haven't invested in a Raventome at all, having one that's easy to build up without heavy investment is still a nice asset. So I'll still 5 Star him and make him into the most ideal Red Mage I can. 

Edited by Medeus

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I absolutely love his art. Never liked his art from SS, so never really saw him as good looking, but this art has definitely changed that. Got the feathers waiting - I could do with more raven tomes. I currently only have M!Robin and Henry, and they both see a lot of use. I do have Cecilia but she's really not that good as a Lyn counter, so I use her as a Reinhardt counter.

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I will play him with Owl Tome, because he can take the same role which Sophia can. And I truly like him.
He is one of the few GHB characters I'm truly looking forward. 

It's a shame that I don't have any fury fodder for now so I have to life with his A skill.
If we get Close counter seal in future I would be delighted. I will see what I can do about his passives later (Also don't have any QR fodder for now...).

His C skill and Seal will be spur skills. Because I plan to use him together with Owl Rhajat (I will also let them S support each other).
This will be fun. :D 

If I should ever get a Bond Skill I could also try to play him with bond. (Bond Seal would be awesome)

Edited by Stroud

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@RandomSwordmaster Considering the Grand Hero Battle hits tonight in the States (13 and a half hours from now), are you planning on updating the topic post with the map and enemy info (within a few minutes of launch, preferably), or should we get a new thread once it's out?

I would very much prefer having the map and enemy info in the topic post for ease of reference.

Tagging @eclipse just to let you know that I would very much prefer a thread (either this one or another) with such in the topic post to remain alive because I likely won't be online at that time. (I will either be nerd-sniped at a friend's place or doing character creation in MH:W at that time.)

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38 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

@RandomSwordmaster Considering the Grand Hero Battle hits tonight in the States (13 and a half hours from now), are you planning on updating the topic post with the map and enemy info (within a few minutes of launch, preferably), or should we get a new thread once it's out?

I would very much prefer having the map and enemy info in the topic post for ease of reference.

Tagging @eclipse just to let you know that I would very much prefer a thread (either this one or another) with such in the topic post to remain alive because I likely won't be online at that time. (I will either be nerd-sniped at a friend's place or doing character creation in MH:W at that time.)

I'll be awake as the update hits, and I'll update the topic post with the info as soon as I can!

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Man I thought he was coming today, I have jury duty tomorrow so I will have to wait until after that to get him:(  I can't wait to mess around with him and figure out a good build, hopefully I get out quickly.

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41 minutes ago, EricaofRenais said:

Man I thought he was coming today, I have jury duty tomorrow so I will have to wait until after that to get him:(  I can't wait to mess around with him and figure out a good build, hopefully I get out quickly.

Were you following the event schedule, the one provided by IS? I know I have to add one day to all the dates, as they are not accurate for my time zone.

Edited by MonkeyCheez3K

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I am confused all Naglfar has going for itself is being basicly a Raventome with higher might... that is very dissapointing to say the least. they should have given it a secondary effect to make it on par with other weapons that synergizes well with his stats, like Quick Riposte are innate Triangle adept advantage or something different!

Seriously since Oliver the GHB Unit power has been nerfed down to oblivion. Oliver had a shitty Weapon with Shine and now this!?!

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1 hour ago, MonkeyCheez3K said:

Were you following the event schedule, the one provided by IS? I know I have to add one day to all the dates, as they are not accurate for my time zone.

I was, but I was not wearing my glasses when I read it so I thought it said the 25th instead of the 26th, I really have to start wearing my glasses.  On the plus side my jury duty was canceled so I can get Lyon in the morning.  I am really glad I don't have to go to a crowded public place tomorrow since the flu is going around my city right now, hopefully when they call me again it will be after the germs have died. 

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6 hours ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Datamine info: 

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Source

Lyon’s GHB map contains reinforcements.

 

I wonder how hard this will be. Whether it’s Arvis hard (average difficulty), or Valter difficulty (extremely hard)

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6 minutes ago, Poimagic said:

I wonder how hard this will be. Whether it’s Arvis hard (average difficulty), or Valter difficulty (extremely hard)

Easier then Arvis. The GHB difficulty hasnt increased while we got Weapon Rifenements and lots of Sacred Seals and boasted BST units. So it will be easy with top tier units and dancers and all those shenanigens, ecxept if you run the Askrtrio like I do for a challenge XD

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This time I'm going to do Infernal twice. The first time I'll cheese it with Fliers or whatever works to get Lyon+feathers. The second I'll make sure to use Eirika and Tana (dang I want to use Joshua, Lute and Seth there too but I need a green!) with Eirika being the one that defeats Lyon....Now should I use non-canon Eirikalter or OG Eirika that doesn't have the bracelet?

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1 hour ago, Hilda said:

I am confused all Naglfar has going for itself is being basicly a Raventome with higher might... that is very dissapointing to say the least. they should have given it a secondary effect to make it on par with other weapons that synergizes well with his stats, like Quick Riposte are innate Triangle adept advantage or something different!

Seriously since Oliver the GHB Unit power has been nerfed down to oblivion. Oliver had a shitty Weapon with Shine and now this!?!

To be fair, Lyon is an incredibly weak boss in FE8. His tome had no special effects in his game, it just had a shit ton of might. It was so heavy that almost anyone could double him. I think he has been represented accurately, given his balanced defences, low speed and decent attack/HP. He's lucky his tome has the raven effect at all. He has pretty decent defence – combined with the raven effect, he won't need much more than the DD3 seal in order to take very little damage from the likes of Brave Lyn – she'd probably do like 10 damage her hit, and with QR as his B-slot, he could proc Iceberg on his follow-up attack and KO her pretty easily. Henry and Sophia have been used in the same way for a long time, Lyon's just an upgrade on Sophia and a more versatile alternative to Henry.

Also, what do you mean by "since Oliver"? He was literally the last GHB unit before Lyon, so that isn't saying much. However, the GHB units do not exactly have a good track record compared to their summoned counterparts. For example, Arvis is a super awkward unit – too slow to be a good player phase sweeper, but also not slow enough to play the QR Iceberg bomb enemy phase role. He lacks the defence to bait archers, and his legendary weapon is awkward to use and rarely secures him extra KOs. He also has basically no hit points, meaning that any mage that can double him has a good chance of powering through him, regardless of his decent resistance. His Recover Ring is pretty cool on paper, but in practice it's almost pointless.

Before Arvis, we had Valter, F!Robin, Ursula, Narcian, Navarre, Lloyd, Berkut, Clarisse – all units who are... sort of underwhelming. Don't get me wrong, if you're a true F2P player, all of these units can be useful for something, but I wouldn't call any of them particularly powerful compared to summoned units of similar archetypes. Berkut and Navarre especially, they're among the worst of their respective types.

The GHB units that are actually pretty busted are Michalis, Zephiel, Camus, Xander... and maybe Legion... and that's about it. Sure, you can build Clarisse into a Brave Bow archer, F!Robin can put archers in check, and Ursula can be buffed and given Blarblade etc... but still. The fact that these units require so much investment to be good, and the fact that even after investment they can perform worse than summoned units who fulfil similar roles (Klein, Jeorge, Setsuna, Brave Lyn, Bridelia, Innes, Leon – they can all outclass Clarisse at the Brave Bow game; Ursula kinda sucks compared to, say, Reinhardt or Olwen; and so on) is an indicator that the GHB units have never been particularly powerful.

And this is intentional – if the freely obtainable units were as good as, or better than, the summonable units, people wouldn't buy orbs.

If anything, Lyon is one of the better GHB units yet – at least, in his niche. Much more attack and resistance than Henry, while having salvageable defence. He's more or less a straight upgrade over Sophia in all stats but defence, where he takes a slight penalty. Double up on Distant Defence, add QR and Iceberg and Lyon will be a very capable enemy phase baiter. He also has the highest BST of any infantry mage. Combine that with the fact that he has a legendary weapon (and not Lyon's Tome+) and I think you have a recipe for a worthwhile unit. Not seeing any nerfing going on at all.

Oh, and another thing – the Shine tome is supposed to be a bad tome? It's basically just a silver weapon, like Bolganone+ or Rexcalibur+. Are these tomes better than blade tomes? In the hands of a glass cannon, no, they are objectively worse. But in the hands of a mage that doesn't have the ability to double? These tomes, when refined, can help bolster stats of mages that expect to be enemy phase units and consequently want more HP and def/res. Shine+ is just the blue version of Bolganone/Rexcalibur. And honestly, it really isn't bad at all. There are units like Deirdre and Brave Lyn who can ignore buffs when they are attacked, so against such units (and there will be more of them in the future) having extra permanent stat boosts and higher might in general (thanks to the refinery) can prove to be preferable.

Just a thought. Also, Oliver yields Atk Ploy (previously only obtainable from an almost impossible-to-acquire, 5*-locked red mage) and Mirror Strike (less desirable but also locked to a 5* exclusive mage who tends not to appear). What were you expecting from him, a brave tome and 50 resistance? Nah, I think the GHB units are pretty much on point, I just wish they were more frequent and more challenging. Valter and Legion were the best so far, and even they were not difficult if you have a Brave Bow archer and a couple of Olivias.

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I'm probably going to dip back into the 4* fodder banner just to get TA3 for Lyon. I'll try completing infernal with a full SS team, though I'm not too sure how well it will go

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