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Just a grumbling female player...


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Just now, bbqbert said:

I suppose that's true. A stud Percival is still fun to look at, even if he implodes on contact and can't kill a fly... .......I guess? hahahah

I imagine Perceval is popular enough to be pulled for, so wouldn't be 3*... I think. I never remember CYL stuff >.<

...However, if it's just his clothes that explode, he can be as rubbish as he wants and he's getting maxed by me!

Gooooo fanservice! xD 

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11 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

I imagine Perceval is popular enough to be pulled for, so wouldn't be 3*... I think. I never remember CYL stuff >.<

...However, if it's just his clothes that explode, he can be as rubbish as he wants and he's getting maxed by me!

Gooooo fanservice! xD 

OK, this I can totally get behind.......... 5* 40+10 exploding clothing Percy on the radar, k thanks IS.

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3 hours ago, Solvaij said:

I just do not get why some of these characters are popular. I know that fanservice is a thing for a reason, but SURELY everybody can tell those designs are absurd. I showed the Camilla Birthright cutscene to a few of my male friends and they agreed that it was just uncomfortable. Seriously, who likes this stuff? And Loki.... jeez... just... why.

I mean, I know why....

But WHYYYYYYYYYYY

…I'm going to say what I usually say when this sort of thing comes up, though it's probably going to sound like either nitpicking or whiny defending based on how you look at it: Not everyone likes Camilla for her armor(or lack thereof). If you ask me, she wouldn't have been such a big deal if she hadn't promptly been added to Heroes and Warriors, and if what actual personality she has hadn't immediately been smothered in both of those games(the closest she comes to being even half a character in Warriors is her Anna Conversation, and Heroes…I think enough people have pulled a Camilla and triggered the Tap Quotes to tell what part of her they chose to expand upon there). Originally, the lowest one could argue for her is that she was half a character because there was backstory that was alluded to but never actually written out, such as the concubine wars, her time with Young Corrin, or even her to-battle quote in the Boo Camp DLC, but now even that is mostly gone thanks to the abovementioned games - I have difficulty making excuses for her now, and I actually liked her character in Fates(though yes, the Birthright cutscene was absolutely uncalled for and I felt cheated when I saw it because I chose to start with Birthright specifically so people wouldn't say I was playing Fates because of Camilla).

On-Topic, as others have said, I don't think I'd mind the split as much - seeing as how the fanservice focus was a given from day one thanks to a certain abovementioned Unit - if it weren't for the fact that it feels like they're trying to step away from Fates and Awakening while still using the same fanservice formula that I felt Fates and to a lesser extent Awakening had woven in with its original FE foundation. The older games' fanbases do not, in general, need that kind of fanservice to get them interested in pulling for a character, as quite a few of them will just be happy even getting their chosen character and will for the most part only seriously complain about said character being screwed over with a garbage art design(coughLloyd) - there's no reason to try and use the boob-appeal card by only including female Units because those games' fanbases actually don't give a crap about whether or not all the ladies get in(well, except maybe the Sain fans, but that's probably because they're channelling their inner Sain, not because they're as fanservice-oriented as IS seems to think their entire fandom is), they just want their games to get proper representation. This apparent focus on the more fanservice-oriented part of the fanbase is probably one of the saddest things I've seen in the past couple years, at least in gaming(only beaten by Duck Hunt and Pac-Man being in Smash and Mega Man not being Bayonetta-level broken), and especially bothers me because Fire Emblem seemed like a relative safe haven from this kind of garbage.

I mean, yeah, there are some fanservice characters I find myself liking at least partially for their fanservice aspect, but that doesn't change the fact that my Unit I've used SI for the most is my first Roy I ever pulled, and I don't intend to stop putting effort into him until I either catch up with the devs and he has access to literally every Skill an Infantry Sword Unit can obtain through SI or else until I feel like I'm saying I support a fanservice-oriented series just by playing Heroes and quit.

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3 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

…I'm going to say what I usually say when this sort of thing comes up, though it's probably going to sound like either nitpicking or whiny defending based on how you look at it: Not everyone likes Camilla for her armor(or lack thereof). If you ask me, she wouldn't have been such a big deal if she hadn't promptly been added to Heroes and Warriors, and if what actual personality she has hadn't immediately been smothered in both of those games(the closest she comes to being even half a character in Warriors is her Anna Conversation, and Heroes…I think enough people have pulled a Camilla and triggered the Tap Quotes to tell what part of her they chose to expand upon there). Originally, the lowest one could argue for her is that she was half a character because there was backstory that was alluded to but never actually written out, such as the concubine wars, her time with Young Corrin, or even her to-battle quote in the Boo Camp DLC, but now even that is mostly gone thanks to the abovementioned games - I have difficulty making excuses for her now, and I actually liked her character in Fates(though yes, the Birthright cutscene was absolutely uncalled for and I felt cheated when I saw it because I chose to start with Birthright specifically so people wouldn't say I was playing Fates because of Camilla).

While I agree some people like her for her character, sadly, it's hard to deny she gets up as high as she does because of two very prominently featured assets... mostly because Loki has scored as high as she has with very little about her even in the story yet >.< 

I actually do like Camilla and her ways, personally. Her fanservice puts me off her a lot, though, 'cos it just feels far too in your face. The armour design and the cutscenes... urgh. But I like her supports, and I actually quite like her face. Her hair is nice, especially :) 

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1 hour ago, Ether said:

Keeping reruns scarce will also help if they do it, I still firmly believe that we only got an alternate Eirika because of the Lyon GHB, but we'll have to see how far they go down the rabbit hole.

Well when they do a Nergal GHB, should we expect a new Eliwood? Actually, that wouldn't be terrible given Eli isn't the best, but would it really be needed? Is the Blazing Durandal refinement enough for him?

 

45 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

Since my appeal is the character themself, and because competitive play isn't the only type of play, I wouldn't mind if they did that with some characters, because I don't think everyone can be competitive with the sheer amount of characters, especially since they want people to keep pulling so powercreep will happen...

Ofc, there'll still be some Ninos in the bunch that can still be built up, and every unit has some sort of niche, depending on what you want to do with them... just others fill it out better... 

That being said, I'd rather have them in the game as rubbish units than not at all, personally... 

Pokemon adds new Pokes that will never have a chance at being remotely competitive with every Generation, and I'm not talking just not fully evolved ones. Luvdisc anyone? Wormadam? Swoobat? Why should Heroes not do this?

 

22 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

I imagine Perceval is popular enough to be pulled for, so wouldn't be 3*... I think. I never remember CYL stuff >.<

...However, if it's just his clothes that explode, he can be as rubbish as he wants and he's getting maxed by me!

Gooooo fanservice! xD 

I think tanks might actually employ some form of armor nowadays that explodes upon impact. Think of it like an airbag, the explosion sends out its own force that weakens the force of the impact with the object in question. What is it called though? Let's just call it Shell Armor for lack of me knowing the real name. Actually, let us make it a male exclusive skill!

 

13 minutes ago, bbqbert said:

OK, this I can totally get behind.......... 5* 40+10 exploding clothing Percy on the radar, k thanks IS.

Woah there! Perceval is one sexy Knight General of Etruria. Percy is a cute little luchador that will send you to the prison of your worse nightmares if you think of him like that.

 

3 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

Not everyone likes Camilla for her armor(or lack thereof).

I don't mean to discredit your point or anything. But sadly, we have no way of effectively polling everyone who "likes" Camilla/Loki/Tharja on what grounds they do. Cynics will put the percentage of just looks higher, likers like you will put it lower.

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Very few people are truthful enough to outright say that they like (or hate) a character just for their appearance or design. No one wants to admit that they like or dislike a character primarily (or solely) for "shallow reasons". They'll always find some non-appearance justification as to why they like the character, even if the appearance comes first or is why they even noticed the character to begin with.

There's nothing wrong with liking characters for shallow reasons, we all do it. The issue comes when you try to hide it and say "n-no, there are deeper reasons to that!"

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2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I took a look to see more of the SC cast beyond Ivy, just to see how pervasively bad it is after the prior comment I made in the FE fighting game topic. Taki has from day one been a highly dysfunctional ninja with such large unbound cleavage. Talim looks like her innocence spared her of being fanserviced, but youth hasn't spared Cassandra from day one. Then you get someone like Sophitia, who starts rather modest in SE and SC, then gets a cleavage window in SCII, which by SCIV devolves in complete abhorrence that is even worse than Ivy, because Sophitia was defiled by the pervy designers while Ivy always was sexualized. 

Thanks for your in-depth post on The Evolution of Boobs in Soul Calibur.  Taki and Seung Mina are best girls imo...and are who Kagero and Oboro are based on

3 hours ago, Solvaij said:

I just do not get why some of these characters are popular. I know that fanservice is a thing for a reason, but SURELY everybody can tell those designs are absurd. I showed the Camilla Birthright cutscene to a few of my male friends and they agreed that it was just uncomfortable. Seriously, who likes this stuff? And Loki.... jeez... just... why.

I mean, I know why....

But WHYYYYYYYYYYY

That scene is pretty cringy.  I don't count it against Camilla; she's my favorite character from Conquest.  

I also wouldn't be caught dead in public blowing on my waifu to wake her up.  

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6 minutes ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

I also wouldn't be caught dead in public blowing on my waifu to wake her up.  

As someone who is married, I can say I've never blown on my spouse's face to cool them off.

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9 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I don't mean to discredit your point or anything. But sadly, we have no way of effectively polling everyone who "likes" Camilla/Loki/Tharja on what grounds they do. Cynics will put the percentage of just looks higher, likers like you will put it lower.

As someone who really doesn't like camilla, I always think back on her first appearance in the fates trailer, and how many people were gushing over her before we even knew thing one about her, so I like to cynically say appearance first then they later justified it with "no no she is actually a really deep character with an incredibly interesting backstory", of course this means nothing to me as I have a vendetta against wyvern riders and never used her as a unit, so my only experience with her is through the story, in which she is featured a fairly good deal and I have seen none of this backstory.

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So, 5* analysis:

Total male (including repeats): 38
Total female (including repeats): 34

Total male freebies: 6
Total female freebies: 5 (one of these is Ursula)

Total male promoted: 2
Total female promoted: 3

Total male pulled: 30
Total female pulled: 27

Fodder not counted.

Looks like I'm slightly more biased towards male units, despite promoting more female units.  Not that I'm complaining~!  Once I get Lyon up to 5*, my ratios will be even wonkier!

This goes to show that there's bias based on RNG.  I'm still missing three 4*-5* units: Cordelia, Soliel, and Sothe.  All this says is that Serra needs to stop showing up in my colorless pulls!

Edited by eclipse
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22 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

While I agree some people like her for her character, sadly, it's hard to deny she gets up as high as she does because of two very prominently featured assets... mostly because Loki has scored as high as she has with very little about her even in the story yet >.< 

I actually do like Camilla and her ways, personally. Her fanservice puts me off her a lot, though, 'cos it just feels far too in your face. The armour design and the cutscenes... urgh. But I like her supports, and I actually quite like her face. Her hair is nice, especially :) 

It's sad, but true, and I personally blame Heroes and Warriors for that, as I mentioned. Her Supports in Warriors get downright alarming on quite a few if not almost all of them, mostly because you can't tell if she's teasing or being serious and you inevitably end up with a sneaking suspicion she's serious about everything she says - her Sakura and Chrom Supports are especially disturbing viewed that way.

19 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I don't mean to discredit your point or anything. But sadly, we have no way of effectively polling everyone who "likes" Camilla/Loki/Tharja on what grounds they do. Cynics will put the percentage of just looks higher, likers like you will put it lower.

Oh, I don't try to say it's much lower than people say - I think just looks is a vast majority(as in 90+%), actually - I just get kind of tired of people talking in absolutes and acting like every Camilla fan is only in it for the boobs when that's obviously almost impossible, particularly in such a large fanbase as Fire Emblem's(if you tried to say an absolute like that about, say, Chief Ruby from Conception 2, for example, I would be less inclined to argue with you because the chances of it being true are higher given the smaller fanbase among other things). Also see my reply below.

16 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Very few people are truthful enough to outright say that they like (or hate) a character just for their appearance or design. No one wants to admit that they like or dislike a character primarily (or solely) for "shallow reasons". They'll always find some non-appearance justification as to why they like the character, even if the appearance comes first or is why they even noticed the character to begin with.

There's nothing wrong with liking characters for shallow reasons, we all do it. The issue comes when you try to hide it and say "n-no, there are deeper reasons to that!"

In my case, my issue is more that everywhere outside Serenes I've said I like Camilla - especially if it's during a discussion of favorite Fates Sibling - everyone immediately attempted to dogpile me with insults and comments about how my only reason for liking her was the boobs or I bet you have a thing for incest(which, as we all know, is a completely ridiculous argument in this context since Camilla+Corrin isn't even technically incest) or, best of all, why haven't I played Senran Kagura yet when it would clearly be my kind of game? This kind of stuff has in the end managed to end up making me a touch bitter towards the entire concept of waifus and fanservice in general and was also why I kept as quiet as possible during the Voting Gauntlet that ended up with Camilla beating Lyn once Roy got ousted. Yes, there are instances where the design/fanservice aspect of a character is a larger factor in what I like about them or what initially attracts me to them, I'll admit that to anyone who asks or attempts to act like I'm pretending to have a holier-than-thou attitude, and I try to stay sane and reasonable when everyone talks trash about Camilla fans, but the bitter still gets the better of me at times, and I'm grateful you guys have been better about it than I initially expected upon first joining.

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10 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

As someone who really doesn't like camilla, I always think back on her first appearance in the fates trailer, and how many people were gushing over her before we even knew thing one about her, so I like to cynically say appearance first then they later justified it with "no no she is actually a really deep character with an incredibly interesting backstory", of course this means nothing to me as I have a vendetta against wyvern riders and never used her as a unit, so my only experience with her is through the story, in which she is featured a fairly good deal and I have seen none of this backstory.

This is primarily why I couldn't get behind Camilla from the start. Her opening feature was her boobs waving, and I at least made the assumption her boobs were waving while walking towards the avatar--her sibling--and it was just... cringe-worthy. Yet people were all over it even before the game released. She was popular well before she had a back story--just like Loki.

I definitely don't think every fan is like that--nor do I think that it's wrong to dislike a character's appearance, because DANG I would like some good-looking dudes in the game and not just like Bartre or Arden or Lloyd or Dorcas or... (you get the picture)--but I think a big part of her popularity STARTED there and kept going from there.

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3 hours ago, Rezzy said:

I'm a bit annoyed by them giving alts to characters when there's still a ton of units that still need to be added in game.  A bit like @Glaceon Mage I love Eirika and Horse Mages alike, but they really should have given that tome/role to another SS unit.  Knoll or even Ewan would have been fine choices for the relic.

Well anyone who saw my CYL voting probably won't be surprised that I would have been thrilled if it was Horse Mage Ewan instead of Horse Mage Eirika.

 

Anyways, my initial thoughts would be that this split is partly caused by the BST and skill inflation. Most recent units are going to beat the pants off older ones in general usability just because they have 5-10 extra BST to work with and get access to far better personal skills than the starting folks did. And who makes up the majority of released units in the past months since then? Females. Basically things like Mia and Ayra don't just outclass folks like Karel, but also folks like Athena(though to be fair I would say Athena is better than Karel).

Add this to the fact that female units in FE are more glass cannon like* than the males are and that those type of units tend to get the most Arena love. And you easily get to where we are now.  Bringing up Athena and Karel is a point here. Athena is less durable but has better offenses. 31/38 vs 30/35 offense but 36/27/24 vs 47/25/20 bulk. The problem here is that both of them really only care about surviving a single hit. Athena can manage that on both ends and as such Karel's extra bulk is mostly wasted at least normally.

*I probably should do a count rather than just assuming my impression is correct, but I have work soon so no way can I hunt through and see if that holds up.

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5 hours ago, bbqbert said:

So I've been lingering in tier 20 in the arena for months now, so I'd say I'm a pretty competitive player and can tell a great unit from a mediocre unit. The tier lists aren't without error, but they do give decent guidelines about what units are phenomenal (ex: all dragons) versus which units are sub par (ex: Odin).

Looking at the current layout, it is INSANE how much priority/special skills/special stats/special attention is given to female units versus male units. I counted quickly, but to give you a general rundown:

S+: 4 female, 0 male

S: 18 female, 11 male

S-: 19 female, 11 male

A+: 30 female, 22 male

A: 20 female, 23 male

A-: 11 female, 22 male

B+: 3 female, 12 male

B: 3 female, 3 male

The number of female units in the highest tiers is almost double that of male units, whereas the number of males at the bottom tiers is over double the number of female units. Do keep in mind that, currently, there are more female units in the game than male units.

And something important to consider is that male units are almost always our TT and GHB rewards—units historically put in to be non-competitive: low stats, non-unique weapons and skills, and impossible to level up beyond 40+3 (until they run again months down the road, if ever).

I pointed this out to a forum once and many people insisted it's because female units are generally given high attack, high speed, and high res--making them better suited to the meta. Whereas male characters are given high attack, high HP, and high defense--making them less suited to the meta. But didn't the high attack, high speed and high res of female units MAKE the meta??? Not to mention the handfuls of female characters given great weapons + 3 unique skills, whereas their male counterparts are RARELY treated so generously...

Furthermore, female characters are generally given unique classes and roles that male characters do not get--mounted archer, flying singer, dragon, flying dragon, flying mage, etc.. MANY of these roles canonically are male roles--Shigure would be the ideal flying singer, Reyson a flying singer, Nils or any FE9/10 dragons, Rath the mounted archer, among many others. Instead, females who do not canonically belong in the role are given it in Heroes while males are pushed to standard infantry roles (Shigure the infantry singer, M!Corrin the infantry sword user, etc.). Let's be perfectly honest: the hot, unique units that everyone fights to pull for are those niche characters that can't be filled by others: Spring Camilla, Halloween Nowi, Myrrh, New Year Azura, Brave Lyn, etc.. Generally all female.

Not only that, but we see many, many banners like the most recent that are all-female or at least a majority of female characters--with a lackluster male character thrown in as a reward for TT or GHB. We've had one or two banners recently that are weighted in favor of males--but we've never had a full male banner (to my knowledge). Whereas we've already had 2 full-female banners to date (that I'm aware of). Said male-weighted banners were often followed by a new female unit that appeared in a random banner on her own (Rhajat, Ayra, etc.). Female-weighted banners were only ever followed by GHB, TT or nothing at all.

I'm not into waifu or husbando culture at all, but I've been playing Fire Emblem since FE6--and there are TONS of characters that I love, particularly males at this point, that are completely irrelevant in Heroes or ignored altogether. And I understand that this is a waifu-culture game. I understand it's a gacha game that just wants to make oodles of dollars off waifu-obsessed folks. But are female players really so nonexistent that they don't even try a little bit?

(And before y'all argue, because I've seen it MANY times before, that they tried to please female players with Bruno, summer Marx, summer Freddy, summer Gaius, Hawkeye and Odin--let's please turn our attention to all of the gorgeous females in this game, the lolis, the number of scantily clad females, and the suggestive ripping of clothes and suggestive poses in MOST of the female injured artwork. Males do not even come close to having remotely the same treatment. Not even exaggerating, the ratio would be roughly 5 suggestive males to 80 suggestive females.)

I skimmed through most of the discussion, but I didn't see if you posted the source for your tierlist? It seems like at least one male unit, Reinhardt, should be in the S+ Tier. But this is beside the point.

Moving onto the main points in your argument. While I appreciate your points, and I'm sympathetic to your concerns, I don't agree that the roster needs to get a 50/50 male-to-female ratio. I don't have the numbers, but I think it's relatively safe to assume that FEH's fanbase is predominantly male. FEH is a game that is designed to earn money, so it plays to its base. I don't think it's fair to expect or ask for more than that. If, for example, the male demographic is providing 70% of the funding for the game, doesn't it make sense to make 70% of the content appeal to that demographic?

Moreover, have you tried providing feedback to them? There's an in-game option to provide feedback, and, if you want more men in the game, why not try providing feedback, and encouraging others to provide feedback as well? This is a popular thread, so I think you'd get a decent response if you sought to encourage people to provide feedback on this matter.

3 hours ago, Rezzy said:

I'm a bit annoyed by them giving alts to characters when there's still a ton of units that still need to be added in game.  A bit like @Glaceon Mage I love Eirika and Horse Mages alike, but they really should have given that tome/role to another SS unit.  Knoll or even Ewan would have been fine choices for the relic.

Since there are so many more male units in the series, I think there are more male than female units I want added.  I'm not even big on seasonal units, so I hope the alt trend isn't going to become a thing going forward.

Agree.

2 hours ago, Rezzy said:

34DD is the average cup size in the USA, but that's due in part to a high obesity rate.  I'm not sure what it would be if only healthy weight individuals were taken into account.

This comment made me laugh probably more than it should've. Truly, Rezzy, you're a treasure on this forum!

2 hours ago, Cute Chao said:

I can understand this if this was a new Fire Emblem game. Fair enough, address the balance... but this is a Fire Emblem fanservice game. It's a tribute to the series as a whole. And, as you just said, the majority of the characters are male, so with there being more female characters added to this game, it means a lot of people won't see their favourite characters added, while we see rerun after rerun of the top female characters. 

This isn't done as a yay women thing, either. It's literally just done for the money... It's against a lot of fans who like the more obscure characters for their own varying reasons. I mean, you see the posts above of people who have given up on the idea of having their favourite character in the game since popular female characters have taken their niches (Bow Lyn, Tome Eirika... heck, even Faye seemed to force Tobin out of having a bow. And yes, I know they could have just added them both with having a bow... but oddly they didn't). Not to mention forcing male units out of unit types - fliers especially... but there was no reason not to make female Corrin the sword user and male Corrin the dragon just to have at least a bit of representation... 

So... to make a long thing short... I could understand your view for a new Fire Emblem game, but not as a tribute game like this... 

You provided some well-articulated arguments! I agree. This is a game that's designed to provide fanservice to fans of the Fire Emblem franchise, and so, if the main consumer demographic is male, that's what we should expect the fanservice to appeal to.

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13 minutes ago, bbqbert said:

I definitely don't think every fan is like that--nor do I think that it's wrong to dislike a character's appearance, because DANG I would like some good-looking dudes in the game and not just like Bartre or Arden or Lloyd or Dorcas or... (you get the picture)--but I think a big part of her popularity STARTED there and kept going from there.

So, uh, you're. . .kinda doing the same thing, but with the other gender.

And Dorcas is pretty easy on the eyes. ;/

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1 minute ago, Astellius said:

I skimmed through most of the discussion, but I didn't see if you posted the source for your tierlist? It seems like at least one male unit, Reinhardt, should be in the S+ Tier. But this is beside the point.

Moving onto the main points in your argument. While I appreciate your points, and I'm sympathetic to your concerns, I don't agree that the roster needs to get a 50/50 male-to-female ratio. I don't have the numbers, but I think it's relatively safe to assume that FEH's fanbase is predominantly male. FEH is a game that is designed to earn money, so it plays to its base. I don't think it's fair to expect or ask for more than that. If, for example, the male demographic is providing 70% of the funding for the game, doesn't it make sense to make 70% of the content appeal to that demographic?

Moreover, have you tried providing feedback to them? There's an in-game option to provide feedback, and, if you want more men in the game, why not try providing feedback, and encouraging others to provide feedback as well? This is a popular thread, so I think you'd get a decent response if you sought to encourage people to provide feedback on this matter.

I posted a follow-up comment in response to someone else: the tier list is the arena/skill inheritance list at Gamepedia, currently updated including the latest GHB. Reinhardt sits cheerfully at rank S now.

Also, I don't necessarily think that it needs to be 50/50--it is fairly clear that this game is geared towards a male audience. However, the lack of useful male units is painfully obvious. There are a handful, but most male units are released as mediocre, low tier units that add little value to the game, especially if one plays competitively. Not all male players would hate male units, either--Ike was the most popularly rated character in CYL if you counted both his variations--he would have beat even Lyn. So they are targeting a very specific male audience.

And yes, I have sent plenty of feedback but in my desire not to seem like a whiner, I try to hold back now because I think it seems they aren't listening anyhow. Oh well.

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3 minutes ago, eclipse said:

So, uh, you're. . .kinda doing the same thing, but with the other gender.

And Dorcas is pretty easy on the eyes. ;/

Hahaha, I'm mostly joking. I like pretty units for sure, and I don't mind fanservice. I don't even really dislike that there is so much fanservice in this game because I know that's what gacha are for--I just wish there was more attention given to female players, too. Such as useful male units that aren't sitting at the lowest end of the tier list. Sorry if I'm being confusing?

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1 minute ago, eclipse said:

And Dorcas is pretty easy on the eyes. ;/

Are you trying to be a homewrecker?

-Said the person who'd want to break Tiz from Agnes in the Bravely games. And I'd consider Pent from Louise- except I like Louise enough not to.

Dorcas is who you're in it for the long haul with, not the quick passion. His homespun loyalty and devotion can be sexy in the right light though.

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6 minutes ago, Astellius said:

This comment made me laugh probably more than it should've. Truly, Rezzy, you're a treasure on this forum!

Thanks, I do what I can.

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Trust me, I feed back this sort of thing a lot. They're probably sick of my comments by now... but I don't think it'll get anywhere, since I know I'm not in the demographic. That's the sad thing. 

Even worse, several of the guys getting in are just memes now. Oliver, seriously? Arden... yay... Dorcas... Eh, I don't mind the latter two, but I don't see Niime getting in on the other end of that scale. I would love to see her in the game, though, even though I know I wouldn't pull for her. Make her a 3* and I will build her up!

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Like you said, aside from the obvious "waifus make more money" mentality, a big reason why so many female characters are so good is because they tend to have high speed and attack which the meta favors. Probably because ever since I can remember, female characters in video games are the fast lightweights whereas the men are slow tanks. So male characters get a lot of stats poured into HP, Def, and Res, which can be great if allocated properly but usually they just end up being mediocre. But even if that's how things are done traditionally, it doesn't really give an excuse to IS. There's nothing actually stopping them from giving the male characters more favorable stat spreads other than their own bias, and it's pretty frustrating.

I think the Halloween banner is the only one I can think of in recent memory where the male characters were better than the girls.

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1 minute ago, Cute Chao said:

Trust me, I feed back this sort of thing a lot. They're probably sick of my comments by now... but I don't think it'll get anywhere, since I know I'm not in the demographic. That's the sad thing. 

Even worse, several of the guys getting in are just memes now. Oliver, seriously? Arden... yay... Dorcas... Eh, I don't mind the latter two, but I don't see Niime getting in on the other end of that scale. I would love to see her in the game, though, even though I know I wouldn't pull for her. Make her a 3* and I will build her up!

Oh my gosh!! I forgot about Oliver! I blocked him from my memory... Yeah, a lot of dudes that get in are meme dudes--also in support of the demographic, I would assume? I actually liked Niime. I think it would be interesting to see some older female characters in there, too. Really, some nice variety would be fun in general.

1 minute ago, Sproutling said:

I think the Halloween banner is the only one I can think of in recent memory where the male characters were better than the girls.

I was quite surprised with Henry and Jakob being unique versions of armor units, that's for sure. Jakob does remain the only archer armor unit in the game, though Henry now shares with Christmas Tharja as mage armor.

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15 minutes ago, eclipse said:

So, uh, you're. . .kinda doing the same thing, but with the other gender.

And Dorcas is pretty easy on the eyes. ;/

To be fair I think there's a difference between having a "cute" unit and having a unit that looks like a prostitute.  I don't think there's a male equivalent of units like Camilla and Loki, but I could be wrong as I haven't really played the newer ones.

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1 minute ago, Lushen said:

To be fair I think there's a difference between having a "cute" unit and having a unit that looks like a prostitute.  I don't think there's a male equivalent of units like Camilla and Loki, but I could be wrong as I haven't really played the newer ones.

I have played the newer ones and there are not. I would say the closest thing we have in this area are in Heroes: summer Marx and summer Frederick--both I think were drawn by hentai yaoi artists? I don't know for sure and not particularly interested, but I know they are constant examples people use that fanservice in Heroes exists for females too. Warriors also blows off armor and has the men in shorts--women are in various types of underwear, including lingerie. So they kinda try...?

But as for straight-up actual characters in a legit Fire Emblem game, I think Odin would be the closest in his weird magic getup.

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7 minutes ago, Lushen said:

To be fair I think there's a difference between having a "cute" unit and having a unit that looks like a prostitute.  I don't think there's a male equivalent of units like Camilla and Loki, but I could be wrong as I haven't really played the newer ones.

There are not any male characters that are like those two. The thing is, there really isn’t a way to make a male version of a fanservise character like Camilla or Loki because the male body has not been and is not sexualized the way the female body is. 

Edited by DarkLordIvy
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