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Erik-a

Which Fire Emblem game is the best and which one should I play?

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8 hours ago, Erik-a said:

I'm liking Sacred Stones so far and I haven't got far since I've been rotating between Conquest and Echoes lately, which I also really like the mechanics in Echoes in. I heard from a friend that Thracia is one of the hardest FE games out there, so I'm gonna stay away from that for a while until I get more into the series.  A friend offered to lend me his copy of Path of Radiance, so I'll have that to keep in mind for now. I'm gonna try Genealogy of the Holy War for sure, but not right now since I'm having enough trouble chapter ten on Conquest as it is right now.

That misconception needs to die. Anyone hailing Thracia as the pinnacle of difficulty has likely never played. What they mean to say is annoying. Enemies are pathetically weak in FE5, but people ignore this and use things like stave hit rate, entire map range staves, permanent status, 1-99 hit rate, and fatigue to say this is the hardest game. They're only 2 bullshit chapters in the game, and they're both completely optional.  

 

It's great that you have access to FE9, either that or an Elibe game would be best. 

 

FE4 is only hard if you don't know what you're doing, like most things. Boss abuse is easiest here than anywhere in the entire series. The arena is extremely generous, you cannot die and with the RNG in this game, it's possible to keep entering and win on 1 HP. Easy 2-4 levels per chapter right there. The cherry on top being the fact that the arena completely heals you after a win. Sigurd/Levin and Seliph/Sety can solo their Gens, the latter lord being promotable a second chapter into his introduction. There are OP holy weapons everywhere. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

 

I'd say a lot of what makes Thracia hard is awful game design.

 You've added nothing to the conversation but this. Have you at least played FE5 yet?

Edited by Køkø

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3 hours ago, Køkø said:

 You've added nothing to the conversation but this. Have you at least played FE5 yet?

No, and if you were planning to tell me to play it, I'll shut you down with a HELL NO! Because honestly, I'm in the camp that no one should be forced to endure a bad game before they can say it's bad. And from where I'm standing, there's just too much wrong with Thracia that makes it not worth playing.

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39 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

No, and if you were planning to tell me to play it, I'll shut you down with a HELL NO! Because honestly, I'm in the camp that no one should be forced to endure a bad game before they can say it's bad. And from where I'm standing, there's just too much wrong with Thracia that makes it not worth playing.

At least play 5 chapters. I feel like you're not even trying to give the game a chance.

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On February 9, 2018 at 11:54 AM, Køkø said:

At least play 5 chapters. I feel like you're not even trying to give the game a chance.

Maybe I would if there was any legitimate reason to do so... Which there isn't. Almost nothing stands out to me as making the game worth playing. So in a sense, you're right about me not being willing to give the game a chance... Which is more because I know I'll be proven right in the end.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

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45 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Maybe I would if there was any legitimate reason to do so... Which there isn't. Almost nothing stands out to me as making the game worth playing. So in a sense, you're right about me not being willing to give the game a chance... Which is more because I know I'll be proven right in the end.

Well the least you can do until you do is stop trying to discourage others from doing so. The opinion of someone who hasn't even played the game doesn't mean much. I've thoroughly played every game I rag on.

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9 hours ago, Køkø said:

Well the least you can do until you do is stop trying to discourage others from doing so. The opinion of someone who hasn't even played the game doesn't mean much. I've thoroughly played every game I rag on.

Don't get me wrong - as much as I think Jugdral is the Dark Ages of Fire Emblem, I wouldn't be opposed to playing a remake of them - and a remake is something that would do both of them a world of good. Care to guess what my problem with that is, though? If you guessed "I don't trust IS to not fuck it up", you're a winner!

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51 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Don't get me wrong - as much as I think Jugdral is the Dark Ages of Fire Emblem, I wouldn't be opposed to playing a remake of them - and a remake is something that would do both of them a world of good. Care to guess what my problem with that is, though? If you guessed "I don't trust IS to not fuck it up", you're a winner!

Now that, I agree with. I fear IS touching Jugdral as well.

So if all the annoying stuff were removed you'd like it? Or is there something else bothering you?

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I had to fight the urge to be one of those jerks who would recommend Thracia 776. I've actually done that once to a friend and they refused to talk to me for a good while. The game is super anti-beginner. Seriously though you should be fine by trying out the gba titles especially Sacred Stones since it's very forgiving since Seth and grinding exists. 

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On 2/13/2018 at 3:48 PM, ChickenBits said:

I had to fight the urge to be one of those jerks who would recommend Thracia 776. I've actually done that once to a friend and they refused to talk to me for a good while. The game is super anti-beginner. Seriously though you should be fine by trying out the gba titles especially Sacred Stones since it's very forgiving since Seth and grinding exists. 

I'm working on Sacred Stones right now, but I'm putting my focus on finishing Conquest first. I don't know which to play next Revelation or continue on Sacred Stones, though. I could play Revelation while I'm on the go, or I could multitask. I don't know yet.

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2 minutes ago, Erik-a said:

I'm working on Sacred Stones right now, but I'm putting my focus on finishing Conquest first. I don't know which to play next Revelation or continue on Sacred Stones, though. I could play Revelation while I'm on the go, or I could multitask. I don't know yet.

You have to a certain mindset to enjoy Revelations, there's a reason the path gets trashed on a lot. Very gimmicky, unit balance is atrocious(without grinding almost half the cast is unusable and royals outclass everyone in their respective roles), and some maps are just a slog to get through. I for one liked my playthrough but only because I made everything a mess with the worst possible pairings and joke weapons for everyone.

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Just now, ChickenBits said:

You have to a certain mindset to enjoy Revelations, there's a reason the path gets trashed on a lot. Very gimmicky, unit balance is atrocious(without grinding almost half the cast is unusable and royals outclass everyone in their respective roles), and some maps are just a slog to get through. I for one liked my playthrough but only because I made everything a mess with the worst possible pairings and joke weapons for everyone.

Would you say that it has a good plot?

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Just now, Erik-a said:

Would you say that it has a good plot?

In my honest opinion it doesn't. The main villain has had barely any significance presence and it takes dlc to develop any form of sympathy towards them. Barely anything makes sense nor is it realistic. If I told you to trust me even though I lack any significant evidence to back my claims, would you? There's some vary rare moments that are decent but that's it. However if you like the cast then it's nice to see them band together and you have more options for pairings if that's your thing.

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2 minutes ago, ChickenBits said:

In my honest opinion it doesn't. The main villain has had barely any significance presence and it takes dlc to develop any form of sympathy towards them. Barely anything makes sense nor is it realistic. If I told you to trust me even though I lack any significant evidence to back my claims, would you? There's some vary rare moments that are decent but that's it. However if you like the cast then it's nice to see them band together and you have more options for pairings if that's your thing.

I guess that I shouldn't keep my expectations too high on it, then. I'm currently on chapter twenty of Conquest, so I'm gonna be starting Revelation soon.

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On 2/13/2018 at 10:23 AM, Køkø said:

Now that, I agree with. I fear IS touching Jugdral as well.

So if all the annoying stuff were removed you'd like it? Or is there something else bothering you?

Especially with the minimalist approach they've taken thus far - I'm of the mind that being too loyal can drag a remake down. Just look at Shadow Dragon. It could've been so much more than what it ended up being. That being said, I think that IS is in a no-win situation when it comes to Jugdral.

Yes. As far as Genealogy goes, I'd want something done about...

  • The maps (not terribly likely, I'll admit, but the maps either enable or amplify the other problems the game has, chief among them the lack of balance between units)
  • The imbalance between weapon types (the fact that there's only one axe that isn't stupidly heavy is just dumb [for added "fun", said axe is easy to miss], as is the fact that aside from weight, the anima tomes were all the same)
  • The lack of trading (the pawn shop is a massive inconvenience)
  • The imbalance between units in general (that's something they'll have to tackle other aspects to fix)
  • Pursuit (locking the ability to follow-up behind a skill is nothing but a huge unbalancing gimmick)
  • The holy weapons (it's not enough that they have 30 mt, but they have to have insane stat boosts as well?? Balmung and Forseti in particular make me wonder what kind of crack the developers were on, with the fact that they give +20 to speed)
  • The money system (individual money is a massive inconvenience to deal with, and it doesn't help that transferring money is limited)
  • The lack of healing items (this would be more a quality-of-life change, but since Gaiden's remake addressed not having healing items, there's no excuse to not have them)

As far as Thracia goes, I'm put off by...

  • Fatigue (I don't like the game arbitrarily telling me that I can't use a certain character)
  • The regression to 20 caps (disregarding Gaiden on account of being the second game in the series, Genealogy was the first game to do away with that)
  • Overly cryptic recruitments (Xavier's the big one, but some other characters aren't much better)
  • Fog of war (to be fair, it isn't exclusive to Thracia, but in said game, you can't even see the terrain)
  • Permanent status effects (it isn't enough that status staves are generally much more useful for the enemy than they are the player, but permanent status is nothing but a huge "**** you" to the player)
  • Escape maps (or rather, you losing any units that didn't escape before Leif)
  • Healing staves missing (Self-explanatory. And also inexcusable.)

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3 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Especially with the minimalist approach they've taken thus far - I'm of the mind that being too loyal can drag a remake down. Just look at Shadow Dragon. It could've been so much more than what it ended up being. That being said, I think that IS is in a no-win situation when it comes to Jugdral.

My concerns are quite different, but I'm sure you won't agree. 

3 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Especially with the minimalist approach they've taken thus far - I'm of the mind that being too loyal can drag a remake down. Just look at Shadow Dragon. It could've been so much more than what it ended up being. That being said, I think that IS is in a no-win situation when it comes to Jugdral.

Yes. As far as Genealogy goes, I'd want something done about...

  • The maps (not terribly likely, I'll admit, but the maps either enable or amplify the other problems the game has, chief among them the lack of balance between units)
  • The imbalance between weapon types (the fact that there's only one axe that isn't stupidly heavy is just dumb [for added "fun", said axe is easy to miss], as is the fact that aside from weight, the anima tomes were all the same)
  • The lack of trading (the pawn shop is a massive inconvenience)
  • The imbalance between units in general (that's something they'll have to tackle other aspects to fix)
  • Pursuit (locking the ability to follow-up behind a skill is nothing but a huge unbalancing gimmick)
  • The holy weapons (it's not enough that they have 30 mt, but they have to have insane stat boosts as well?? Balmung and Forseti in particular make me wonder what kind of crack the developers were on, with the fact that they give +20 to speed)
  • The money system (individual money is a massive inconvenience to deal with, and it doesn't help that transferring money is limited)
  • The lack of healing items (this would be more a quality-of-life change, but since Gaiden's remake addressed not having healing items, there's no excuse to not have them)

This can fixed with a simple rescue command. I keep seeing people say "change the maps", but with no ideas on how to go about it. 

A legitimate concern. Never bothered me though. 

That can't happen. The theme of FE4 is inheritance, it forces you to choose who gets what. Adding a trade option would undermine that. Removing that would be like removing HP draining magic, Gaiden archer ranges, and only needing 1 speed point higher to double in Echoes. 

I refer you to the first response. 

This actually opens up room for different strategies, and it's quite useful for training weaker units as well. Enemies without Pursuit can't double you either. This isn't much of an issue in Gen 2. 

Well you're screwed without them, especially in Gen 2. Why in the world would anyone want weaker legendary weapons? What does that add? The point of a remake to to add things to the original, not detract. One of the things people like about FE4 is that legendary weapons actually feel like legendary weapons, not just good ones. Take a look a Fates' legendary weapons for example, they're pathetic in comparison.

I refer you to the third response. 

A valid proposal.  I don't think it's necessary but it would help. 

3 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

 

As far as Thracia goes, I'm put off by...

  • Fatigue (I don't like the game arbitrarily telling me that I can't use a certain character)
  • The regression to 20 caps (disregarding Gaiden on account of being the second game in the series, Genealogy was the first game to do away with that)
  • Overly cryptic recruitments (Xavier's the big one, but some other characters aren't much better)
  • Fog of war (to be fair, it isn't exclusive to Thracia, but in said game, you can't even see the terrain)
  • Permanent status effects (it isn't enough that status staves are generally much more useful for the enemy than they are the player, but permanent status is nothing but a huge "**** you" to the player)
  • Escape maps (or rather, you losing any units that didn't escape before Leif)
  • Healing staves missing (Self-explanatory. And also inexcusable.)

Why are you opposed to this? It forces you to use a wide variety of characters, something you complained that FE4 lacked. There's even S drinks for when you absolutely need a certain character in a chapter. Don't see them taking this away, as they put fatigue in Echoes. Futilely. It added nothing and the cure was incredibly generous unlike in FE5 where you actually have to work or wait for it. 

This and crusader scrolls are what makes Thracia one of the most balanced games in the series. Everyone has the exact same potential. It also forces you to strategize, rather than grinding and sitting back watching your characters slaughter everything in sight. Which is still kinda a thing considering FE5 enemies are so pathetically weak, but not as much as other games. Again, as someone who cares about balance, why are you complaining?  

 A lot of games during that time required guidebooks. Fuck Xavier though. 

There are some chapters where FOW is obnoxious and unnecessary. I won't argue with you here. 

* It's not like the game doesn't give you countermeasures. (Looking at you, Conquest.)  

I don't want to tell you "get good", but it's apt. There's even a chapter that lets you get your captured or abandoned units back. In Conquest chapter 21, you'd just be unable to complete the mission, as it forces you to make everyone escape. You can make sacrifices if you have to. 

 A questionable mechanic, yes. But it does go away as the stave user levels up. 

I'm surprised you didn't ask for change in capturing. As it stands now it's pain in the ass.

 

Edited by Køkø

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I beat Revelation yesterday and I just bought FE Warriors that I've just begun. I must get to the rest of the games eventually. I'm currently playing Echoes as well in Act 3 in that. Why is FE so addicting?

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Which Fire Emblem game is the #1 Best is a very difficult question to answer as a lot of that depends on how a paticular game resonates with a paticular player. As far as an introduction to the series goes I would recommend either Blazing Sword or Sacred Stones to a beginner. The Tellius games have a good story, some solid world building and some excellent game mechanics that I would like to see again. The Jugdrael games also have some good story telling and world building especially when considering when these games were made.

Thraccia has some very interesting ideas that I enjoy such as capturing enemies, looting weapons and items from them to sell etc. I have not finished Thraccia yet, but I am currently playing it and enjoying both the gameplay and story. Thraccia's difficulty mostly comes from not knowing what's coming, if you can prepare for X event it's a lot easier a similar thing is true of FE10. If you want money you need to take gear from enemies and sell it, the game does not just hand money out to you.

Ultimately I would say give every FE game a try at least once but which one is the best depends a lot on how that game resonates with a paticular player, though I would be partial to considering either the Tellius or the Jugdrael games as the best.

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On 2/23/2018 at 6:20 PM, Køkø said:

This can fixed with a simple rescue command. I keep saying people say "change the maps", but with no ideas on how to go about it. 

A legitimate concern. Never bothered me though. 

That can't happen. The theme of FE4 is inheritance, it forces you to choose who gets what. Adding a trade option would undermine that. Removing that would be like removing HP draining magic, Gaiden archer ranges, and only needing 1 speed point higher to double in Echoes. 

I refer you to the first response. 

This actually opens up room for different strategies, and it's quite useful for training weaker units as well. Enemies without Pursuit can't double you either. This isn't much of an issue in Gen 2. 

Well you're screwed without them, especially in Gen 2. Why in the world would anyone want weaker legendary weapons? What does that add? The point of a remake to to add things to the original, not detract. One of the things people like about FE4 is that legendary weapons actually feel like legendary weapons, not just good ones. Take a look a Fates' legendary weapons for example, they're pathetic in comparison.

I refer you to the third response. 

A valid proposal.  I don't think it's necessary but it would help. 

*I think that could indeed help make foot units more viable. Like I said, I don't think they would change the maps.

*That's something we can agree on.

* I guess you have a point there. I just think it's extremely irritating having to backtrack when a unit gets a weapon they can't use, which is made worse by the maps.

* The problem is, it doesn't fix the other facets of Genealogy's imbalance. Units without Pursuit or holy weapons would still be worse off than those with them.

* I just think it's weird to lock a fundamental mechanic behind a skill - and while this doesn't actually happen, it'd be weird as hell to see a Swordmaster that can't double an armored unit.

* Having powerful weapons is one thing, but the holy weapons pretty much invalidate strategy. Say what you will about Ryoma and Ike, but they still have weaknesses. And are you referring specifically to the princes' divine weapons or the S rank weapons?

* Well, if they're not going to dump it entirely, the least they could do is not make it a serious pain in the ass. As is, it adds nothing to the gameplay. Why the hell is transferring money so limited in the first place??? 

* Exactly - I want some source of healing other than churches and staves.

Also, another facet of Genealogy I find bothersome is the love system - all you get is vague messages from the fortune teller. And there's always the matter of two units potentially getting married without my knowledge...

On 2/23/2018 at 6:20 PM, Køkø said:

Why are you opposed to this? It forces you to use a wide variety of characters, something you complained that FE4 lacked. There's even S drinks for when you absolutely need a certain character in a chapter. Don't see them taking this away, as they put fatigue in Echoes. Futilely. It added nothing and the cure was incredibly generous unlike in FE5 where you actually have to work or wait for it. 

This and crusader scrolls are what makes Thracia one of the most balanced games in the series. Everyone has the exact same potential. It also forces you to strategize, rather than grinding and sitting back watching your characters slaughter everything in sight. Which is still kinda a thing considering FE5 enemies are so pathetically weak, but not as much as other games. Again, as someone who cares about balance, why are you complaining?  

 A lot of games during that time required guidebooks. Fuck Xavier though. 

* It's not like the game doesn't give you countermeasures. (Looking at you, Conquest.)  

I don't want to tell you "get good", but it's apt. There's even a chapter that lets you get your captured or abandoned units back. In Conquest chapter 21, you'd just be unable to complete the mission, as it forces you to make everyone escape. You can make sacrifices if you have to. 

 A questionable mechanic, yes. But it does go away as the stave user levels up. 

I'm surprised you didn't ask for change in capturing. As it stands now it's pain in the ass.

* Because it is an active detriment to gameplay, which Jugdral is already laughably weak in. And to be blunt, I'd find it hard to care about the game forcing me to use multiple characters when only a tiny handful are even worth latching on to in the first place.

* With everyone having the same potential comes late joiners losing value, for the most part.

*That's kinda true, I will grant, but outside of the Tellius saga, which has both Stefan and Shinon, I don't think any other FE game had any particularly cryptic recruitments. (The former requires going in the direction which is opposite the objective, and having one of two specific units wait on a specific square, and the latter requires having one specific character out of three talk to him, then defeating him with your main character. The game at least hints at the former via a base conversation, but not so much the latter - in fact, about the only clue is in a different game entirely.)

* Having countermeasures is one thing, but it doesn't make it significantly less annoying. My opinion of status staves is the way it is largely because if the player ever winds up getting any, it's only one, and their use is really really niche, if they are even useful at all, that is. Not unlike is the case with Counter in Awakening.

* If I may be frank, "get good" can only count for so much when the game denies me vital information - and I don't think you're warned about the consequences of not having all other units escape before Leif. Or maybe you are, and this point is moot. Anyway, it doesn't help that this game has the single most poorly designed chapter in any FE game period. The way Conquest chapter 21 is handled would've been a better way to handle escape missions, rather than screwing over someone who didn't know that they'd lose any units that didn't escape before Leif.

* Sure, it might go away, but that doesn't change the fact that healing staves missing even being an issue in the first place is outright inexcusable.

As for capturing, about the only complaint I would have about it is the over-reliance on it.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

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50 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

*That's kinda true, I will grant, but outside of the Tellius saga, which has both Stefan and Shinon, I don't think any other FE game had any particularly cryptic recruitments. (The former requires going in the direction which is opposite the objective, and having one of two specific units wait on a specific square, and the latter requires having one specific character out of three talk to him, then defeating him with your main character. The game at least hints at the former via a base conversation, but not so much the latter - in fact, about the only clue is in a different game entirely.)

 

Karla says hi. 

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4 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Karla says hi. 

Drat. How did I forget about her? But yeah, that one practically needed a guide to figure out. Especially knowing the only hint is in Sword of Seals, which wasn't released outside of Japan.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

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On 2/25/2018 at 10:43 AM, SavageVolug said:

Which Fire Emblem game is the #1 Best is a very difficult question to answer as a lot of that depends on how a paticular game resonates with a paticular player. As far as an introduction to the series goes I would recommend either Blazing Sword or Sacred Stones to a beginner. The Tellius games have a good story, some solid world building and some excellent game mechanics that I would like to see again. The Jugdrael games also have some good story telling and world building especially when considering when these games were made.

Thraccia has some very interesting ideas that I enjoy such as capturing enemies, looting weapons and items from them to sell etc. I have not finished Thraccia yet, but I am currently playing it and enjoying both the gameplay and story. Thraccia's difficulty mostly comes from not knowing what's coming, if you can prepare for X event it's a lot easier a similar thing is true of FE10. If you want money you need to take gear from enemies and sell it, the game does not just hand money out to you.

Ultimately I would say give every FE game a try at least once but which one is the best depends a lot on how that game resonates with a paticular player, though I would be partial to considering either the Tellius or the Jugdrael games as the best.

I'll give each of them a try then. I'm working on FE Warriors and Echoes right now. Sacred Stones is fun, too!

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19 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

 

* I guess you have a point there. I just think it's extremely irritating having to backtrack when a unit gets a weapon they can't use, which is made worse by the maps.

* The problem is, it doesn't fix the other facets of Genealogy's imbalance. Units without Pursuit or holy weapons would still be worse off than those with them.

* I just think it's weird to lock a fundamental mechanic behind a skill - and while this doesn't actually happen, it'd be weird as hell to see a Swordmaster that can't double an armored unit.

* Having powerful weapons is one thing, but the holy weapons pretty much invalidate strategy. Say what you will about Ryoma and Ike, but they still have weaknesses. And are you referring specifically to the princes' divine weapons or the S rank weapons?

* Well, if they're not going to dump it entirely, the least they could do is not make it a serious pain in the ass. As is, it adds nothing to the gameplay. Why the hell is transferring money so limited in the first place??? 

* Which is why it's important for you to get the item on the unit you want to have it initially. This isn't an issue for dropped items, but for villages you need a guide. Perhaps this could be mitigated by adding an accept/reject option upon visiting a village with an item impart. 

* That's the only thing you could do to make them better other than getting rid of Pursuit. Honestly, the imbalance is unavoidable given the nature of FE4. Major holy blooded units are going to be better than units without it, though there are some good units without it in Gen 1. (Jamke,Holyn,Midayle,Ferry)

It's especially prominent in Gen 2, but that army is meant to be the second coming of the 12 Crusaders. No place for normal people.   

 

* It is. But that's what makes FE4 FE4. Kaga's games being so different from one another is what keeps them from getting stale. 

* I have made complaints about FE4 being too easy before. Again, this unavoidable given the nature of FE4. The holy weapons are supposed to be incredibly powerful, not good. Their wielders are superhuman demi-gods, not slightly better than average. This is reflected in the gameplay. FE4 is more story focused anyway, perhaps this title was never meant to be strategically engaging.  

And I'm referring to the royal lore-based weapons of course. We keep hearing about how powerful and legendary they are, but in gameplay they're just slightly above average with the Yato in any form being the worst offender followed by Brynhildr. Remember the Ryoma/Xander/Leo cutscenes where they show off their weapons and emit  a fire controlling electric explosion aura, nearly collapse an entire castle just by unsheathing, create a mini black hole respectively? They don't work like that at all, quite disappointing. The fact that weapon durability is gone just makes them even more indistinguishable, they at least could have had that over normal weapons. 

* It's in place to keep you from abusing OP items and also gives thieves a purpose given there's no indoor chapters. It ties in with that inheritance thing as well, so a lack of contribution to gameplay is not present. Did you know that child units receive a portion of their parents combined gold? It definitely helps in the beginning of Gen 2 to have rich parents. I find managing the money quite fun. 

19 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

 

Also, another facet of Genealogy I find bothersome is the love system - all you get is vague messages from the fortune teller. And there's always the matter of two units potentially getting married without my knowledge...

Again, this is the guidebook era. Game companies were real big on that back then. It's really simple actually, are you telling me that it's something you struggle with even with all the internet resources out nowadays? 

You know, a rescue command could help out with this as well. No more slowing down your calvary to stand next to infantry. 

19 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

 

* Because it is an active detriment to gameplay, which Jugdral is already laughably weak in. And to be blunt, I'd find it hard to care about the game forcing me to use multiple characters when only a tiny handful are even worth latching on to in the first place.

* With everyone having the same potential comes late joiners losing value, for the most part.

* Having countermeasures is one thing, but it doesn't make it significantly less annoying. My opinion of status staves is the way it is largely because if the player ever winds up getting any, it's only one, and their use is really really niche, if they are even useful at all, that is. Not unlike is the case with Counter in Awakening.

* If I may be frank, "get good" can only count for so much when the game denies me vital information - and I don't think you're warned about the consequences of not having all other units escape before Leif. Or maybe you are, and this point is moot. Anyway, it doesn't help that this game has the single most poorly designed chapter in any FE game period. The way Conquest chapter 21 is handled would've been a better way to handle escape missions, rather than screwing over someone who didn't know that they'd lose any units that didn't escape before Leif.

* Sure, it might go away, but that doesn't change the fact that healing staves missing even being an issue in the first place is outright inexcusable.

* Thracia has some of the best map designs in the entire series, so I don't know what you're talking about. How are only a handful of characters worth using if everyone has the same potential? Sure there are some characters that are easier to train than others, but the gap is not uncrossable. FE5 features a huge array of characters, and there are very few who are not worth training. 

* I don't understand. You can use whoever you want to. You have a problem with FE4's lack of variety and a problem with too much variety in FE5. Sounds like you have an incurable hate for Jugdral. At least IS understands its value, as they're constantly ripping off from it, while strangely ignoring it. 

* Status is always going to more useful for the enemy as they outnumber you, did you want to put the bosses to sleep or something? What do you mean by "it's only one" and they're not useful? Your lack of experience with this game is showing. You at least know that capturing exists. 

* Must be whatever translation you read/watched. The original Japanese script is very clear regarding Escape, so you can't blame Kaga for that one.

Yes, it's awful. But how does 1 bad optional chapter ruin the entire game?

I disagree. It's actually harder that way. 

* Questionable, but not inexcusable. One could argue that it reflects the stave user's inexperience.

Edited by Køkø

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12 hours ago, Køkø said:

* Which is why it's important for you to get the item on the unit you want to have it initially. This isn't an issue for dropped items, but for villages you need a guide. Perhaps this could be mitigated by adding an accept/reject option upon visiting a village with an item impart. 

* That's the only thing you could do to make them better other than getting rid of Pursuit. Honestly, the imbalance is unavoidable given the nature of FE4. Major holy blooded units are going to be better than units without it, though there are some good units without it in Gen 1. (Jamke,Holyn,Midayle,Ferry)

It's especially prominent in Gen 2, but that army is meant to be the second coming of the 12 Crusaders. No place for normal people.   

 

* It is. But that's what makes FE4 FE4. Kaga's games being so different from one another is what keeps them from getting stale. 

* I have made complaints about FE4 being too easy before. Again, this unavoidable given the nature of FE4. The holy weapons are supposed to be incredibly powerful, not good. Their wielders are superhuman demi-gods, not slightly better than average. This is reflected in the gameplay. FE4 is more story focused anyway, perhaps this title was never meant to be strategically engaging.  

And I'm referring to the royal lore-based weapons of course. We keep hearing about how powerful and legendary they are, but in gameplay they're just slightly above average with the Yato in any form being the worst offender followed by Brynhildr. Remember the Ryoma/Xander/Leo cutscenes where they show off their weapons and emit  a fire controlling electric explosion aura, nearly collapse an entire castle just by unsheathing, create a mini black hole respectively? They don't work like that at all, quite disappointing. The fact that weapon durability is gone just makes them even more indistinguishable, they at least could have had that over normal weapons. 

* It's in place to keep you from abusing OP items and also gives thieves a purpose given there's no indoor chapters. It ties in with that inheritance thing as well, so a lack of contribution to gameplay is not present. Did you know that child units receive a portion of their parents combined gold? It definitely helps in the beginning of Gen 2 to have rich parents. I find managing the money quite fun. 

* That can be a pain to set up depending on what the enemy in question is and who the item is suited for. For example, I would be rather hesitant to send in Lex against a sword user to try to finish them off for an axe. Or the Leg Ring, which is best on dancers... Except the dancers are also not good at fighting. At all. As for villages, another gripe I have with villages is that bandits tend to practically start on top of them. The worst by far are instances where bandits are trying to destroy villages in areas you can't even access yet (case in point: chapter 2).

* Well, there are some good units that don't have Holy Blood, yes... but they're still in the shadow of those who do have it. Also, the former two you mentioned are fucked over because Horse Emblem.

* Which I would say Kaga failed miserably at, especially as far as Genealogy is concerned - traversing ginormous maps can only go on for so long before it gets stale.

* I would be fine with a story-focused title - that is, as long as the gameplay wasn't a massive slog, which it is in Genealogy's case. It's kinda hard to enjoy the story when it means enduring ho-hum gameplay, no?

* Like I said, I think it's just another headache inducing mechanic to grapple with in a game already full of them.

12 hours ago, Køkø said:

Again, this is the guidebook era. Game companies were real big on that back then. It's really simple actually, are you telling me that it's something you struggle with even with all the internet resources out nowadays? 

You know, a rescue command could help out with this as well. No more slowing down your calvary to stand next to infantry. 

The thing is, compared to Awakening and Fates, where I had absolute control over who marries whom (other than Chrom in the former, and even then I still have a significant degree of control over that), I don't have as much control over units in Genealogy and whom they fall in love with - and this, indeed, isn't really helped by the Horse Emblem nature of the game. I've seen complaints about Lewyn and Sylvia in particular - Sylvia only starts with 10 less love points than Erinys... except for the fact that the latter comes later than the former, and it's thus likely that Sylvia would have a lead by the time the latter is recruited.

12 hours ago, Køkø said:

* Thracia has some of the best map designs in the entire series, so I don't know what you're talking about. How are only a handful of characters worth using if everyone has the same potential? Sure there are some characters that are easier to train than others, but the gap is not uncrossable. FE5 features a huge array of characters, and there are very few who are not worth training. 

* I don't understand. You can use whoever you want to. You have a problem with FE4's lack of variety and a problem with too much variety in FE5. Sounds like you have an incurable hate for Jugdral. At least IS understands its value, as they're constantly ripping off from it, while strangely ignoring it. 

* Status is always going to more useful for the enemy as they outnumber you, did you want to put the bosses to sleep or something? What do you mean by "it's only one" and they're not useful? Your lack of experience with this game is showing. You at least know that capturing exists. 

* Must be whatever translation you read/watched. The original Japanese script is very clear regarding Escape, so you can't blame Kaga for that one.

Yes, it's awful. But how does 1 bad optional chapter ruin the entire game?

I disagree. It's actually harder that way. 

* Questionable, but not inexcusable. One could argue that it reflects the stave user's inexperience.

* My point is more that there are not very many characters in Thracia (or for that matter, the Jugdral games in general) that I consider worth liking.

* You're absolutely correct - I consider Jugdral the dregs of Fire Emblem, because the games are an overambitious disaster. About the only thing that can get rid of my Jugdral enmity is if they remade them, and remade them well, at that. Nothing else will work.

* And that's the problem. As for my comment about status staves, it was more in the context of other FE games with them, which often limit you to just getting one copy. Silence in particular tends to not be that useful, since the effect is only relevant against mages, which tend to have high resistance. 

* Which wouldn't be a problem were it not for (1) my not being very good at reading Japanese, and (2) the spotty quality of the fan translations the game got.

It's not just one chapter, for your information - it's the general tendency to throw you in BS situations (including ones that are - or at least can become - outright unwinnable), like one chapter has a trap where you are locked in a room, with very few door keys attainable at that point, and your thieves are too fragile to survive the ballistae, to say nothing of the Manster prison sequence. That is not good game design. And let's not forget how stupid thrones are - the +10 to defense often means needing to fish for critical hits to kill bosses.

* I'll just say it up front - calling healing staves missing "questionable" is a very, very, VERY kind way of putting it. I literally cannot think of any RPG games where healing skills could fail, except for the one where the skill in question was outclassed by the basic healing spell anyway (hint: the same character has both of them). So no, "inexcusable" is the only way to describe it.

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10 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

* That can be a pain to set up depending on what the enemy in question is and who the item is suited for. For example, I would be rather hesitant to send in Lex against a sword user to try to finish them off for an axe. Or the Leg Ring, which is best on dancers... Except the dancers are also not good at fighting. At all. As for villages, another gripe I have with villages is that bandits tend to practically start on top of them. The worst by far are instances where bandits are trying to destroy villages in areas you can't even access yet (case in point: chapter 2).

The thing is, compared to Awakening and Fates, where I had absolute control over who marries whom (other than Chrom in the former, and even then I still have a significant degree of control over that), I don't have as much control over units in Genealogy and whom they fall in love with - and this, indeed, isn't really helped by the Horse Emblem nature of the game. I've seen complaints about Lewyn and Sylvia in particular - Sylvia only starts with 10 less love points than Erinys... except for the fact that the latter comes later than the former, and it's thus likely that Sylvia would have a lead by the time the latter is recruited. 

* What ax are you trying to get from a Swordmaster? Making up hypotheticals that don't exist is awful for your argument.  

I guess this is just a matter of how you play, but I always give the Leg Ring to Sigurd. Best is subjective, but it's much easier to smash through everything with Sigurd.

There are no impossible village visits. Move fast enough, and you will get to them.   

* I have never had an issue getting specific units to pair up. Make sure Levin isn't standing next to Sylvia for extended periods of time and recruit Ferry before the 50 turn mark. Have him and the latter spend a couple of turns next to each other in chapter 2, 3 and a little bit of 4 and usually they're lovers early into 4, even before the love point boosting conversation. Levin starts out with 210 love points with Ferry and 200 with Sylvia. The conversation in chapter 4 gives to 290 to Levin and Ferry, making it possible to pair them up even if they never stand next to each other, and eschewing the passive love growth that comes from simply being outside of the castle together.  

11 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

 

* My point is more that there are not very many characters in Thracia (or for that matter, the Jugdral games in general) that I consider worth liking.

* And that's the problem. As for my comment about status staves, it was more in the context of other FE games with them, which often limit you to just getting one copy. Silence in particular tends to not be that useful, since the effect is only relevant against mages, which tend to have high resistance. 

It's not just one chapter, for your information - it's the general tendency to throw you in BS situations (including ones that are - or at least can become - outright unwinnable), like one chapter has a trap where you are locked in a room, with very few door keys attainable at that point, and your thieves are too fragile to survive the ballistae, to say nothing of the Manster prison sequence. That is not good game design. And let's not forget how stupid thrones are - the +10 to defense often means needing to fish for critical hits to kill bosses.

* I'll just say it up front - calling healing staves missing "questionable" is a very, very, VERY kind way of putting it. I literally cannot think of any RPG games where healing skills could fail, except for the one where the skill in question was outclassed by the basic healing spell anyway (hint: the same character has both of them). So no, "inexcusable" is the only way to describe it.

* So it's not a matter of efficiency for you, it's one of taste? Why are you bringing personal feelings up in a conversation about unit balance? It's fine if you don't like their personalities, but here is not the place for that. 

* That's not unique to FE5, so using that as a mark against it is invalid. I never had a problem with using the status staves as intended in FE5. And you get more than just one. 

Fun fact, did you know it's possible to cheese chapter 22 and berserk Reinhardt?  

* You said FE5 had the worst chapter in series. The only thing you could be talking about 24x. Sounds like you need a guide because none of what you mentioned besides that is difficult. The prison escape chapters are some the best in the series. If you do decide to play one day, I will personally help you wherever you need it. 

* Inexcusable could mean there are no excuses, and that's not true as I gave you one. "Questionable" is not me being mild, but accurate.

 

 

 

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