Kaze and Fates' Emotional Impact

[MoonRose]

I haven't seen any recent topics on this, but forgive me if this is double-posting. As someone that feels they're really embarking on amazing adventures with Conquest and Birthright, I feel the need to share.

In the midst of my Conquest playthrough, I realized I was fast approaching the chapter in which Kaze was destined to do a certain something if there wasn't a high enough Support level with him. With me at first smothering Arthur, then wanting my Male Corrin to spice things up with Niles, I ignored Kaze all the way up until that chapter. Then it became like: omg NO I have to start over he can't do that can time pass in the castle? Can I still get him up to A support? Noooo he can't do it NO.

Right when I was about to drop everything and start over, I found it that Kaze's event does not happen in Conquest. Just Birthright. So on I go.

That's how much of an impact the characters have on me, though. :) I wonder-was anyone else horrified by the thing Kaze does? Did you restart once it happened? How did it make you feel? Did you it prevent it from happening? 

[DragonFlames]

I'll be honest: I have never seen that event if you don't have an A-support with Kaze in Birthright.
As he's my favourite male character in Fates, I always make sure to have an A-support with him when I get to Chapter 15 if I play a male Corrin and if I play female, I hook the two up, anyway, because their support is really cute.
Midori being among my favourite child characters certainly helps his case, too. I just can't bear the thought of the precious little cinnamon roll never existing.

[Morswo]

Since Kaze is a ninja, I don't let this happen, except one time.At my first time playing Birthright, he hadn't luck.

[Interdimensional Observer]

It was odd for me. My first BR run came after my first CQ, so I wanted to bench Kaze and try somebody new, Saizo. Because I didn't use Kaze, I never actually noticed he disappeared until the ending when it said "Retired Chapter 15", and I was like "How'd I let somebody die? I would have noticed that.". I might have noticed something was off beforehand, I can't quite remember. But afterwards I just thought to myself "Is this a punishment for having 3 Ninjas on BR?"

That is what I got for skipping the story all the time. A random death, thankfully it wasn't of someone I was using. Scarlet was a bigger shame for me, since she seemed kinda useful.

[Shadow Mir]

Honestly, that's something I haven't had to deal with since I was tipped off beforehand (and by "tipped off", I actually mean "stayed up-to-date while waiting for the game to release, and found out about it"). I can see how it can throw a newcomer for a loop, though.

[Morswo]

I forgot to say, Kaze was more a useful unit than anything else, so it was just a death of a normal unit.

[MoonRose]

15 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Honestly, that's something I haven't had to deal with since I was tipped off beforehand (and by "tipped off", I actually mean "stayed up-to-date while waiting for the game to release, and found out about it"). I can see how it can throw a newcomer for a loop, though.

Yeah, and right when I approached the chapter too. I was an inch away from starting ALL the way over, as I felt absolutely horrible for ignoring Kaze and didn't want the sweetheart to die. His 'My Room' saying that goes 'Thank you for saving me' only put me in more of a panic. Thank goodness I get to keep him. I'll make sure he stays with me in Birthright too!

In response to Interdimensional Observer, I really wish the deaths had more of an impact. On my first Conquest playthrough, I had units drop left and right in a castle battle but thought nothing of it until I went to my room. I noticed I could only invite Arthur over for a visit and quickly found out why: everyone else kinda died. I thought they'd come back, considering I just got 'Need to retreat, BRB' quotes, but nope, they kinda 'retired'.

I'm not at all looking forward to what happens to Xander in Birthright, and the emotional scenes do have strong impacts on me, but I really wish the writing had been sharpened a little more. Especially when it comes to Corrin.

Thank you for responding, guys! :)

[Chconroy]

I knew of it ahead of time by complete luck; I was talking with a friend who was ahead of me in Birthright and she accidentally let it slip that he dies. I was bummed by the spoiler at first, but then I found out getting an A-Support with Corrin would save him and though I only had a C-Support and the chapter was the next one, I had skirmishes and two seeds of trust in the convoy. Needless to say, Kaze did not die that playthrough.

To be honest, I don't like the event. It forces me to spend time getting an A-Support with Kaze instead of getting supports with other characters in order to use him and even if I don't use him, I still don't like the idea of letting units die, regardless if I'm playing with them or not. Additionally, I don't recall the game warning you about potentially loosing a unit and it means all the work you put into making Kaze good could be wasted if you didn't happen to prioritize his supports over other units.

[Shadow Mir]

1 minute ago, MoonRose said:

On my first Conquest playthrough, I had units drop left and right in a castle battle but thought nothing of it until I went to my room. I noticed I could only invite Arthur over for a visit and quickly found out why: everyone else kinda died. I thought they'd come back, considering I just got 'Need to retreat, BRB' quotes, but nope, they kinda 'retired'.

Don't you mean an invasion (as in the fights with invisible soldiers)?

[MoonRose]

1 minute ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Don't you mean an invasion (as in the fights with invisible soldiers)?

Yeah, one and the same. I think that's where it happened, anyway. With this first playthrough being deemed a failure weeks ago, and me being a complete Fire Emblem newbie, I'm clueless. :) I do know that a few units dropped during an invasion, though.

[Kurrin]

I knew about it ahead of time because I was looking up recruitment requirements (as I figured most recruitable units weren't spoilers) and somebody mentioned that an A-support was necessary (without stating a specific reason). I wasn't exactly sure whether they were trolling or not because it seemed kind of out of the ordinary. It didn't matter either way, because I had gotten the support naturally as you get plenty of time to achieve said support before the related chapter shows up.

Honestly, it was kind of disappointing on a potentially impactful level. On the plus side, the possibility of a permanent death that wasn't related to battle was really interesting. Aaaand that's about it for positives.
As for the negatives:
1) It felt very contrived, both cause and solution. The cause on its own I can give a pass on because it didn't feel that forced. The solution, however, was basically "Oh, hey. Why don't I throw something at this shiny thing that just happens to be nearby, even though I have zero idea why I'm doing this and why I think this would help anything."
2) It set up a false precedence that could have been something great. This situation reminded me of the "decisions" in Awakening. However, as opposed to the flavor text that Awakening's decisions amounted to, Kaze's situation had an actual impact. You had to actually make some sort of conscientious effort in order to keep him alive. It felt great seeing this scene. It made me think of the supposed decisions you were apparently going to make in Fates, aside from choosing your route in the beginning, but nope. Instead of more of that, we got nothing else like it. It was the only other real "change" you could make.

Going forward, getting back to the positives of this little scene, I'd genuinely love to see more things like this in future FE games, but with some better execution.

[EricaofRenais]

I S supported him in my first BR run and he ended up being my favorite guy in Fates so S support every time.  Just an FYI you can grind supports in my castle battles which is how I managed to get all the kids in my runs.  Kaze is my favorite Fates character (in Heroes when?) so that scene had a big impact story wise for me, it is my favorite part of BR.

[Ertrick36]

I've never let him die off, though I was clued in on the possibility thanks to spoilery hype trains and my need to research game data.  I also avoid killing certain characters towards the end chapters (e.g. Oboro, Laslow, etc.), as they actually do die if you defeat them after a certain point.  In fact, the possibility of these characters dying is a big part of why I hate Garon.

Spoiler

It's also why I hate a certain plot twist so much more.

Spoiler

It's like... you mean to tell me that I killed them... for nothing?!

It's this situation where it's impactful when it happens initially, but then I come across the plot twist and then I just feel angry and bitter.

 

 

[MoonRose]

1 hour ago, Kurrin said:

I knew about it ahead of time because I was looking up recruitment requirements (as I figured most recruitable units weren't spoilers) and somebody mentioned that an A-support was necessary (without stating a specific reason). I wasn't exactly sure whether they were trolling or not because it seemed kind of out of the ordinary. It didn't matter either way, because I had gotten the support naturally as you get plenty of time to achieve said support before the related chapter shows up.

Honestly, it was kind of disappointing on a potentially impactful level. On the plus side, the possibility of a permanent death that wasn't related to battle was really interesting. Aaaand that's about it for positives.
As for the negatives:
1) It felt very contrived, both cause and solution. The cause on its own I can give a pass on because it didn't feel that forced. The solution, however, was basically "Oh, hey. Why don't I throw something at this shiny thing that just happens to be nearby, even though I have zero idea why I'm doing this and why I think this would help anything."
2) It set up a false precedence that could have been something great. This situation reminded me of the "decisions" in Awakening. However, as opposed to the flavor text that Awakening's decisions amounted to, Kaze's situation had an actual impact. You had to actually make some sort of conscientious effort in order to keep him alive. It felt great seeing this scene. It made me think of the supposed decisions you were apparently going to make in Fates, aside from choosing your route in the beginning, but nope. Instead of more of that, we got nothing else like it. It was the only other real "change" you could make.

Going forward, getting back to the positives of this little scene, I'd genuinely love to see more things like this in future FE games, but with some better execution.

The event was inserted in a rather sneaky way, for those going in completely blind and for those working tirelessly to bond with other characters, only to find Kaze 'retiring' out of nowhere. I agree that such events really need better execution, as they could have really come off as brutal punches to the stomach. Not that I'm letting Kaze do the thing in my BR playthrough, but I think back on the Rainbow Sage event in Conquest. Perhaps it just needed to be in cutscene form, but it didn't hit as hard as it should have.

34 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

I've never let him die off, though I was clued in on the possibility thanks to spoilery hype trains and my need to research game data.  I also avoid killing certain characters towards the end chapters (e.g. Oboro, Laslow, etc.), as they actually do die if you defeat them after a certain point.  In fact, the possibility of these characters dying is a big part of why I hate Garon.

  Reveal hidden contents

It's also why I hate a certain plot twist so much more.

  Reveal hidden contents

It's like... you mean to tell me that I killed them... for nothing?!

It's this situation where it's impactful when it happens initially, but then I come across the plot twist and then I just feel angry and bitter.

 

 

The more I find out about BR, the more frightened I become. I'm not at all used to the BR crew yet, so I know I have a ton of bonding to do, but I'm becoming more and more worried...

Thank you for responding, everyone! Everyone's input is read and appreciated.

Edited February 8, 2018 by MoonRose
Needed to say thank you.

[Ertrick36]

4 minutes ago, MoonRose said:

The more I find out about BR, the more frightened I become. I'm not at all used to the BR crew yet, so I know I have a ton of bonding to do, but I'm becoming more and more worried...

When I said "avoid killing certain characters", I wasn't referring strictly to Birthright, and I was mostly talking about enemies you fight on opposing sides.  You can actually avoid killing a whole lot of named characters in either path by simply not defeating them in their last appearances (usually the second, though some only appear one time); Arthur, in fact, is one of the easier ones to spare, as you have another option for sparing him and Effie as well, which you should recognize as soon as it comes up.  Though yes, some deaths are unavoidable.

I felt a similar dread coming into Conquest.  But if you find bonds with any of the Birthright characters, then you can get Revelation and be happy all around ヽﾉ

[MoonRose]

1 hour ago, Ertrick36 said:

When I said "avoid killing certain characters", I wasn't referring strictly to Birthright, and I was mostly talking about enemies you fight on opposing sides.  You can actually avoid killing a whole lot of named characters in either path by simply not defeating them in their last appearances (usually the second, though some only appear one time); Arthur, in fact, is one of the easier ones to spare, as you have another option for sparing him and Effie as well, which you should recognize as soon as it comes up.  Though yes, some deaths are unavoidable.

I felt a similar dread coming into Conquest.  But if you find bonds with any of the Birthright characters, then you can get Revelation and be happy all around ヽﾉ

Anyone that chooses not to spare Arthur deserves to have really powerful Harry Potter spells cast upon them. Putting it VERY LIGHTLY. As I headcanon my Corrin and Arthur in a very emotionally/physically intimate relationship, the mere thought of killing him in BR really makes me sad. Since this is a Kaze topic, I'll route it back to him. :)

Kaze telling me 'I was King Garon's prisoner, thanks for saving me' really put me in a panic over losing him. Thankfully I don't have to in Conquest, nor will I lose him in Birthright (now that I know what can happen). I'm happy you can recruit him in either route.

[BrightBow]

I would imagine that it's rather hard to care about this if one has played Conquest first. After all, that part shows that Kaze is someone who would happily support the invasion of his home country, enable the killing of innocent people and murder his former comrades for the sake of someone like Corrin.

[MoonRose]

14 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

I would imagine that it's rather hard to care about this if one has played Conquest first. After all, that part shows that Kaze is someone who would happily support the invasion of his home country, enable the killing of innocent people and murder his former comrades for the sake of someone like Corrin.

Ah. Good points. He DID jump from one ship to the next, all for Corrin-and considering how much Corrin gets on my nerves, Kaze's decision to join him wasn't really that noble. Then, when Corrin apologized to him for choosing Nohr, Kaze was surprisingly laidback about it, saying 'oh well, it is what it is'. Him being like 'No matter how much I may suffer, I want to help you-even if I lose everything' would have made much more sense. But therein lies the problems with the writing. 

Fates does have a lot of root canals. You bring up valid concerns regarding Kaze. But then we're given the canvas to fix those root canals as we may. :) 

[Corrin_Kamui]

5 hours ago, BrightBow said:

I would imagine that it's rather hard to care about this if one has played Conquest first. After all, that part shows that Kaze is someone who would happily support the invasion of his home country, enable the killing of innocent people and murder his former comrades for the sake of someone like Corrin.

In his slight defense he does that largely because he blames himself for Corrin's kidnapping in the first place.

 

He pledges himself to Corrin to "atone for the pain he's caused them".

 

Of course it still makes more sense in Revelation where Corrin isn't leading a bunch of murderous psychopaths into Hoshido.

[anonymous0101]

I literally just played through Ch.15 and have spend the past few minutes frantically googling if it's possible to undo... The thing Kaze does. Apparently not, which is actually pretty crappy of Nintendo. Thanks for doing .. you know what .. to one of the people in my most prospective couple. And without any warning.

It sucks, because I had a B-rank support with him when I got to Ch.15, and as I'd just researched children and how they work and got a little tip-off that I should have an A-rank support with him... I was trying to get to that. Unfortunately, I assumed that I only needed the A-rank for the paralogue that came after Ch.15, not for Ch.15 itself. And assumed wrong. It sucks even more because I am 99,9% sure that I reached A-rank during Ch.15... and just because the... thing happens right after finishing the battle, I never got the chance to have the support conversation. So I was so close, but no dice. I actually really liked Kaze. What the heck, Nintendo??

Anyway, yeah. I'm embarrassed to admit I cried a little, and I'm not even sure why. Everyone before this had said it wasn't even emotional for them, that they were just annoyed their best ninja was gone, but I was actually sad. Please tell me I'm not the only one.

As for my future plans... I'm probably not going to restart all from the beginning on another save just to prevent this from happening, because I literally spent hours leveling that village girl from the first prologue up to level 10 (don't ask me why, I'm just like that) and I am not going through that again. I'll keep playing (mad that I didn't get Kaze's kid, again, what the HECK Nintendo), but once I get to the end I might do another playthrough. And get an A-rank with Kaze ASAP.