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General "mass killings" thread

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Seems to happen frequently enough to warrant such a thread, and nobody's bothered to make a topic in General/Serious discussion regarding the recent mass shooting in Florida, USA just yesterday that's killed at least 17 students in a school. I guess people are sick of hearing such news and just want to ignore it? I understand. I feel the same way, too. It would be nice if such mass killings would just go away, wouldn't it.

We can use this thread, I suppose, since such a thing will never be going away. We'll never have to make a new thread every time such events occur. How convenient is that?

Feel free to post your condolences, thoughts and prayers, resentment towards the attacker(s), etc. here every time shit goes down.

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THis W E B S I T E iS FoR FirE eMbLem, nOt To rePOrt TraGiC nEws. also hi from the UK as well.

wait fuck this is in general discussion oops. sorry man.

Edited by bad touch

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Well its the deadliest mass shooting in America since November. Which was the deadliest mass shooting in America since October.

...Its February...

What more can I say???

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I had a conversation with my wife last night (she's a high school teacher) where she was basically like: "My school is right next to a military base. The kids are assholes. Any one of them could get mad, go home, and grab one of their parent's guns. I don't feel safe in this country and I don't feel safe at my job."

(We had a similar conversation back in July. Back when there was that story out of Minneapolis,  where an Australian woman called police to report a sexual assault. The woman stood on her porch in her nightgown, waiting for police to show up. The police showed up, drew their guns, and shot her.) 

Now this may be something that's hard to appreciate if you didn't grow up in a country with strict gun laws and where you're baseline expectation is you never, ever, ever, ever hear stories about someone shooting up a movie theater or a mall or a school--maybe once every ten (10) years some psychopath pulls a gun out in a crowded subway, and it makes national news.

But the level of desensitization we have to gun violence in this country is not normal. From the outside-looking-in, this is some 3rd World Country shit. 

We're over here thumping our chests about how we're the best and we're special and everyone wants to come here. #MAGA

And parents over in Japan and Taiwan and Australia are looking at us the way we look at Syria and Yemen: "No I'm not sending you to to school in America. WTF is wrong with you--don't you watch the news? Do you want to get shot?"  

 

Edited by Shoblongoo

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What I think is the saddest part of these mass shootings is that Congress can't do anything to take defensive measures against these tragedies because our stupid 2-party system has devolved to the point where nobody is willing to compromise on these big issues because it would go against the parties political agendas. Democrats will try to ban all firearms while Republicans will try to defend all firearms and it turns into a never ending back and forth where nothing gets done.

I'm no politician, but I think even I could come of with a decent compromise that could decrease casualties. My plan would be to ban civilians from carrying automatic weapons while other less lethal weapons would be unaffected, you could still own hunting rifles or a handgun, but we get rid of assault weapons that are all too often used in these mass shootings. It's not a perfect solution that will prevent all future shootings, but in the event that one does happen a lot less people will be hurt or killed if they don't have access to weapons that you would see in a war zone.

I try not to be political online, but I'm tired of the news channels telling me that I'm in danger when I go to a school or the movies or anywhere else that I might go. I just had to vent a little this time because it seems like these shootings just keep getting deadlier and deadlier like there's a f**king trophy for topping the deadliest mass shootings list.

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I'm tired of this conversation, because it always goes the same way. Liberals yell for gun control after a shooting, some perhaps a little optimistic about just repealing the second ammendment, Conservatives either try to shame them for "exploiting" or politicisation a tragedy (which I think is probably my most hated argument, because fuck you, it should be politicised) or talking about the second ammendment, tyrannical governments or self-defense, and nothing ends up getting done really.

When Columbine happened, there was outrage at the time - probably at the wrong things, like trench coats and violent video games, but shootings have been so common place in the almost 20 years since then that they have been completely normalised.

Although I know it's irrational, being shot is one of the concerns I have with going to the United States, and one of the reasons I probably never will.

Edited by Tryhard

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My high school is brand new as of 3 years ago and has many of these brand new systems implemented to help keep us all safe in case of some situation like that.

For one there are these special "police alarms" and is the first in the US to have them integrated apparently. They are just like fire alarms, only they play a different sound and automatically alerts the police station (which is like 2 minutes away from the school). They also are colored blue instead of red.

We also have drills that simulate sort special versions of lockdown drills, which are designed in the case of danger within the school regarding a shooter or a fight.

Another thing that exists is we have a couple officers stationed around the school every now and then. Its only just a few and they are all rather friendly from what I have heard from a couple people who have spoken to them.

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1 hour ago, CatManThree said:

My high school is brand new as of 3 years ago and has many of these brand new systems implemented to help keep us all safe in case of some situation like that.

For one there are these special "police alarms" and is the first in the US to have them integrated apparently. They are just like fire alarms, only they play a different sound and automatically alerts the police station (which is like 2 minutes away from the school). They also are colored blue instead of red.

We also have drills that simulate sort special versions of lockdown drills, which are designed in the case of danger within the school regarding a shooter or a fight.

Another thing that exists is we have a couple officers stationed around the school every now and then. Its only just a few and they are all rather friendly from what I have heard from a couple people who have spoken to them.

Again--from the outside looking in--this is some Third World Country shit. You're not going through airport security or crossing a border checkpoint or visiting a prison--this is so that you can get up and go to school in the morning. 

Just stop for a moment and think about how insane that is.

1 hour ago, Tryhard said:

I know it's irrational, being shot is one of the concerns I have with going to the United States, and one of the reasons I probably never will.

Not irrational and i know many foreign nationals who feel the same way. 
 

1 hour ago, Tryhard said:

 a little optimistic about just repealing the second ammendment

Yeahhhhhhhhhh that's not "a little optimistic." No way. Not in your wildest dreams.

1 hour ago, TheGoodHoms said:

What I think is the saddest part of these mass shootings is that Congress can't do anything to take defensive measures against these tragedies because our stupid 2-party system has devolved to the point where nobody is willing to compromise on these big issues because it would go against the parties political agendas.

...this is basically we're I'm at now with my thinking on the issue, and how it moves...

It has to be like the gay marriage and marijuana issue, where the answer is multigenerational. Because the attitudes as they exist today in this country are just too baked-in and solidified for there to be any real movement in the foreseeable future.  

Twenty years ago in this country, marriage equality at the federal level in all 50 states was unthinkable. The national ethic was that this was an issue of religious liberty and family values and the right of decent people to not have deviant sexual behavior forced down their throat. There was no movement on the issue for decades. Thereafter came a generation that thought about the issue in radically different terms, supported and rejected very different positions, and the issue moved.

Twenty years ago in this country, legalization of recreational marijuana use was unthinkable. The national ethic was that this was an emergent matter of public health and safety and that anyone against putting druggies behind bars was "soft on crime." There was no movement on the issue for decades. Thereafter came a generation that thought about the issue in radically different terms, supported and rejected very different positions, and the issue moved.

That's what has to happen with guns.  

And when you look at the time frame for how those other issues moved...it may take 10, 20, 30 years.

But that's how it has to happen. Incrementally. Through shifting social attitudes and points-of-reference from a new generation.

Or it isn't going to happen at all.  

Edited by Shoblongoo

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I do wonder how many people against gun control actually used their guns at all...

And I will understand people who say “Gun control won’t work because they can get guns illegally”. If you follow that logic, what’s the point of having doors if thieves can go through windows?

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Just now, Von Ithipathachai said:

Shouldn't something like this go in Serious Discussion?

This...yeah.

I don't want to get into a big debate or anything, but I would like to throw in my two cents. I think people ARE tired of hearing about these, and that should send a message imo. It's disgusting if these happen as often as they do.

I'm one of those who thinks gun control should be completely ignored right now if you're looking for a solution. I find that those who commit mass shootings are almost always one of two kinds of people:

A) Terrorists.

or B) Mentally fucked up people.

I said almost always, so there are exceptions (the asshole that shot up a gay bar in Florida was a pure hate crime, for example. I don't think he was linked to any terrorist groups, nor had any mental issues). But this is clearly a problem with security and mental health. Probably more so the latter. These need to be addressed more. Get those people under control, and by extension, you keep weapons out of their hands.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Guns are not the only weapons people use to kill people. Did you know that no guns were used in 9/11, the most massive attack in our history? Those terrorists used boxcutters and flight training, nothing more, and had planned the event years in advance.

The people in the San Bernadino shooting in CA, while they did use guns in that attack, were also making bombs.

Chicago, despite having some of the strictest gun laws, has one of the highest crime rates in the country. It HAS gone up and down a bit over recent years, but always remained high.

And even when guns are used or wanted to be used, they can be obtained illegally in multiple ways. Bought on streets, smuggled from outside the country, etc. A reason Trump calls for better border security. Remember the several big attacks on France? They had their borders totally open.

And the scariest thing is how terrorists can disguise themselves. This is a reason Trump instated that temporary travel ban on certain countries. Those same people I said were making bombs in San Bernadino were a couple who had a baby. So even an innocent-looking family of two parents and a kid can be terrorists! And those banned countries were known homes to terrorist organizations.

And as stated earlier in this thread, another big issue is how divided our stupid government is and how they refuse to come to any compromises lately. They're too focused on making the other party look bad (though I think the Dems are a little more guilty of this than the Republicans with all the Trump bashing). And I honestly think Trump has some of the best ideas for at least beginning to solve these issues, and yet he gets most of the hate and bashing, mainly because of the media.

Police also get wrongly bashed sometimes because the media likes to blow dirty cop incidents way out of proportion, and make it seem like that's a bigger issue than it is. For every dirty cop, there are like hundreds, maybe thousands of legit good cops. One of the more recent mass shootings was the killing of several innocent cops in Texas. The police in Fayetteville, where I lived previously, got threats. When even police have to fear for their safety like this, there IS a problem.

But I believe things will eventually change. There are always ups and downs in history. Nothing lasts forever. And no matter how bad something might seem, something good always comes out of it in the end as well.

39 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

Again--from the outside looking in--this is some Third World Country shit. You're not going through airport security or crossing a border checkpoint or visiting a prison--this is so that you can get up and go to school in the morning. 

Just stop for a moment and think about how insane that is.

Pff, sounds much better than what I had at one of the high schools I went to. Students there had to go through fucking metal detectors every morning.

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21 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

This...yeah.

I don't want to get into a big debate or anything, but I would like to throw in my two cents. I think people ARE tired of hearing about these, and that should send a message imo. It's disgusting if these happen as often as they do.

I'm one of those who thinks gun control should be completely ignored right now if you're looking for a solution. I find that those who commit mass shootings are almost always one of two kinds of people:

A) Terrorists.

or B) Mentally fucked up people.

I said almost always, so there are exceptions (the asshole that shot up a gay bar in Florida was a pure hate crime, for example. I don't think he was linked to any terrorist groups, nor had any mental issues). But this is clearly a problem with security and mental health. Probably more so the latter. These need to be addressed more. Get those people under control, and by extension, you keep weapons out of their hands.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Guns are not the only weapons people use to kill people. Did you know that no guns were used in 9/11, the most massive attack in our history? Those terrorists used boxcutters and flight training, nothing more, and had planned the event years in advance.

The people in the San Bernadino shooting in CA, while they did use guns in that attack, were also making bombs.

Chicago, despite having some of the strictest gun laws, has one of the highest crime rates in the country. It HAS gone up and down a bit over recent years, but always remained high.

And even when guns are used or wanted to be used, they can be obtained illegally in multiple ways. Bought on streets, smuggled from outside the country, etc. A reason Trump calls for better border security. Remember the several big attacks on France? They had their borders totally open.

And the scariest thing is how terrorists can disguise themselves. This is a reason Trump instated that temporary travel ban on certain countries. Those same people I said were making bombs in San Bernadino were a couple who had a baby. So even an innocent-looking family of two parents and a kid can be terrorists! And those banned countries were known homes to terrorist organizations.

And as stated earlier in this thread, another big issue is how divided our stupid government is and how they refuse to come to any compromises lately. They're too focused on making the other party look bad (though I think the Dems are a little more guilty of this than the Republicans with all the Trump bashing). And I honestly think Trump has some of the best ideas for at least beginning to solve these issues, and yet he gets most of the hate and bashing, mainly because of the media.

Police also get wrongly bashed sometimes because the media likes to blow dirty cop incidents way out of proportion, and make it seem like that's a bigger issue than it is. For every dirty cop, there are like hundreds, maybe thousands of legit good cops. One of the more recent mass shootings was the killing of several innocent cops in Texas. The police in Fayetteville, where I lived previously, got threats. When even police have to fear for their safety like this, there IS a problem.

But I believe things will eventually change. There are always ups and downs in history. Nothing lasts forever. And no matter how bad something might seem, something good always comes out of it in the end as well.

Pff, sounds much better than what I had at one of the high schools I went to. Students there had to go through fucking metal detectors every morning.

All right, since against gun control then answer me this:

How many times in your entire life have you felt the need to use a gun? How many times having a gun in your home felt like a safe thing to do?

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5 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

All right, since against gun control then answer me this:

How many times in your entire life have you felt the need to use a gun? How many times having a gun in your home felt like a safe thing to do?

Never, because I'm unable to use a gun. My ears are too sensitive for the loud firing noise. But I never said civilians shouldn't be allowed to carry guns themselves or that we shouldn't have the second amendment or anything like that. People should be free to use guns to defend themselves. I'm saying to focus more on mentally unstable people and general security and such so they can be kept away from any sort of weapons. Security systems should also be used more in lots of places other than people's homes. The guy that shot up Sandy Hook Elementary in Connecticut was a schizophrenic lunatic. But that was ignored and he didn't get help or enough help before he harmed anyone.

Also, I was trying to edit my earlier post with this, but it wasn't letting me for some stupid reason: I don't know if your window/door thing is the best comparison. Windows can be locked just as doors can, and it's stupid to try breaking a window, because either someone could easily see or hear it or it would set off an alarm. Security systems are a thing, as I said.

Edited by Anacybele

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4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Never, because I'm unable to use a gun. My ears are too sensitive for the loud firing noise. But I never said civilians shouldn't be allowed to carry guns themselves or that we shouldn't have the second amendment or anything like that. People should be free to use guns to defend themselves. I'm saying to focus more on mentally unstable people and general security and such so they can be kept away from any sort of weapons. Security systems should also be used more in lots of places other than people's homes. The guy that shot up Sandy Hook Elementary in Connecticut was a schizophrenic lunatic. But that was ignored and he didn't get help or enough help before he harmed anyone.

Also, I was trying to edit my earlier post with this, but it wasn't letting me for some stupid reason: I don't know if your window/door thing is the best comparison. Windows can be locked just as doors can, and it's stupid to try breaking a window, because either someone could easily see or hear it or it would set off an alarm. Security systems are a thing, as I said.

You know, I’m tired of people bringing the Second Amendment when this subject comes up. 

I may get flak for this, but the Second Amendment is quite frankly, bullshit. I was something that was in 1791, a time where things where very different compared to nowadays. I find it ridiculous that something decided in 1791, where people thought much differently back then, still affects the US.

And the idea that people need guns to protect themselves is also ridiculous. Are those people really ready kill what they deem dangerous? What if the kill someone by accident thinking it was a thief?

And the door/window analogy still works because it’s not that windows are only other way. The idea was that thieves will always find a way in, so what’s the point of having doors?

 

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22 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

But I never said civilians shouldn't be allowed to carry guns themselves or that we shouldn't have the second amendment or anything like that. 

...its interesting...you look at the precise language of the Second Amendment...

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

There's an argument that's been floating around in legal circles for quite some time now. And it basically goes that if you give full force and effect to the entirety of the language in the amendment--you don't just focus on the second half and ignore the bolded--then the "shall not be infringed" clause has to be read as contingent upon the "well regulated militia" clause.

...because if you regard the "shall not be infringed" clause as unconditional and without any contingencies, you are rendering the bolded language meaningless.  And a principle rule of legal interpretation is that no language in a source of legal authority can be presumed to be without meaning or effect; a reading that renders language meaningless is an improper reading.

[If correct]: the conclusion to be drawn from this interpretation is that the right to own and operate firearms without government infringement is conditioned upon eligibility for service in a State Police Force or Military Reserves. And that the government retains broad authority to regulate gun ownership and operations within the legal framework set up by criteria of eligibility (i.e. age. criminal history. mental health. safety and training certifications. etc.)

This argument came before the Supreme Court of the United States in the 2008 case of Heller v. District of Colombia. And 4 Supreme Court justices agreed with it. It was one vote away from being endorsed by the majority of The Court.  

...Something to consider...   
 

 
 
 
Edited by Shoblongoo

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I try to find it difficult to talk about this because I'm not usually the type to talk about these subjects. However I feel I should say something as someone who lives near America.

I'll probably sound like an asshole, trust me it isn't my attention but there goes: you have to drop that whole ''weapon law'' once and for all. I don't care if you are democrate or liberal or whatever the hell you want, it doesn't matter as a whole for me, you all from the same country.

I know all about your laws (for the most part, the basics really), we learn a lot about you in Canada' high schools.

In case you didn't know, you are THE ONLY country with mass shootings that are this... regular which is something you should never place together. Something is wrong and you just so happen to be THE ONLY country with a gun law like that.

I do know a lot of Americans are aware of this, some are not however because I think they don't see their case from another party's perspective.

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Guns are not the only weapons people use to kill people. Did you know that no guns were used in 9/11, the most massive attack in our history? Those terrorists used boxcutters and flight training, nothing more, and had planned the event years in advance.

Ana, I will have to disagree with you.

First of all, yes people kill people. But guess what is more lethal between a gun and a knife? I can guaranteed that if those mentally ill didn't had any access to a gun, there would have been less casualities, if not any.

Ana, I have never held a gun in my entire life. The only people I have ever saw with guns are police officers, not a random civilian who bought a weapon to a gun shop-- which also doesn't even exist in my city by the way-- yes even pistols are forbidden unless you are a police officer.

I don't want to sound rude but do you want to know when was the last time we ever had a mass shooting in Canada? It was in 1984 at the ''École Polytechnique de Montréal'' in my own city. 34 YEARS AGO, that's quite a long time compare to you country.

 

Edited by Nym

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32 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

You know, I’m tired of people bringing the Second Amendment when this subject comes up. 

I may get flak for this, but the Second Amendment is quite frankly, bullshit. I was something that was in 1791, a time where things where very different compared to nowadays. I find it ridiculous that something decided in 1791, where people thought much differently back then, still affects the US.

And the idea that people need guns to protect themselves is also ridiculous. Are those people really ready kill what they deem dangerous? What if the kill someone by accident thinking it was a thief?

And the door/window analogy still works because it’s not that windows are only other way. The idea was that thieves will always find a way in, so what’s the point of having doors?

I said I didn't want to get into a debate. Please do not start one with me.

Also, sometimes accidents like that will happen. People are only human. It's unfortunate, but it's true. But if some idiot came up to me and started trying to beat me up, I'd be wishing I had a gun or something to get him or her off me, even if my ears might be ringing for the next week as a result. It's better than potentially dying or getting raped or lying in a hospital bed fighting for my life.

And we use doors to walk in and out of buildings, so why are you suggesting to get rid of them?

10 minutes ago, Nym said:

Ana, I will have to disagree with you.

First of all, yes people kill people. But guess what is more lethal between a gun and a knife? I can guaranteed that if those mentally ill didn't had any access to a gun, there would have been less casualities, if not any.

Ana, I have holded a gun in my entire life. The only people I have ever saw with guns are police officers, not a random civilian who bought a weapon to a gun shop-- which also doesn't even exist in my city by the way-- yes even pistols are forbidden unless you are a police officer.

I don't want to sound rude but do you want to know when was the last time we ever had a mass shooting in Canada? It was in 1984 at the ''École Polytechnique de Montréal'' in my own city. 34 YEARS AGO, that's quite a long time compare to you country.

What's more lethal between a gun and a bomb or plane or other large vehicle? There are other ways to kill a lot of people at once. The Boston marathon bombing, anyone? The truck that took out 20 people at a festival in Berlin? 9/11 had over 3000 deaths and no guns were used. Don't take guns away from people, take mentally ill people away from anything dangerous to themselves or others.

And I'll say it again, I don't want a debate. I'm done here. I don't want to have to say this again.

Also, it's "held."

Edited by Anacybele

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4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

What's more lethal between a gun and a bomb?

...the one that's absurdly easier for a killer of ordinary means and sophistication to acquire + operate. 

 

Edited by Shoblongoo

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Just now, Shoblongoo said:

...the one that's absurdly easier for a killer of ordinary means and sophistication to acquire + operate.

Sorry, no. Bombs are more lethal. Did you completely ignore where I said a couple with a baby were making bombs? And what about that Boston marathon bombing? That was one of the goriest attacks ever, with literal body parts flying everywhere. And it's easier than you think to make a bomb or to even make something explode at all. All you need is something gas-based and some fire. Gas and fire do not mix and cause an explosion.

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16 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Sorry, no. Bombs are more lethal. Did you completely ignore where I said a couple with a baby were making bombs? And what about that Boston marathon bombing? That was one of the goriest attacks ever, with literal body parts flying everywhere. And it's easier than you think to make a bomb or to even make something explode at all. All you need is something gas-based and some fire. Gas and fire do not mix and cause an explosion.

...okay...you can't tell me that you don't want to have a debate and then make posts like this. Because if you make posts like this, I'm going to debate you.

1) Picking out specific instances where bombs have been used does not overcome the fact that in the totality of cases: guns are easier to acquire, easier to use, less likely to immediately set off red flags + get you pegged by law enforcement before you have a chance to carry out an attack, used in more attacks, kill more people, and are generally the preferred weapon of killers looking to inflict maximum loss of life with minimal chance of failure.

2) You go years at a time without a killer successfully carrying out a bombing in America. There is a high profile  mass-shooting every few weeks. Why do you suppose that is?

3) Do you honestly believe that if spraying gun fire into a crowd was not a feasible option, and that if would-be mass killers had to use bombs or vehicles or bladed weapons in the alternative or otherwise abandon their attacks, this would not reduce the prevalence of mass killings + the number of victims?

For your example you had to go all the way back to the Boston Marathon Bombing. That was 2013.

There have been eighteen (18) school shootings in America since New Years.

Do you see why the numbers aren't on your side here? 

  

Edited by Shoblongoo

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23 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

What's more lethal between a gun and a bomb or plane or other large vehicle? There are other ways to kill a lot of people at once. The Boston marathon bombing, anyone? The truck that took out 20 people at a festival in Berlin? 9/11 had over 3000 deaths and no guns were used. Don't take guns away from people, take mentally ill people away from anything dangerous to themselves or others.

Do not put terrorist attacks and mass shootings in the same basket please, terrorist attacks are something else entirely and they will of course the most lethal weapon that they can find.

I know you just daid you didn't want to talk about it anymore however I'll still believe if those mentally ill only had a knife, they would have hurt way less people.

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30 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Sorry, no. Bombs are more lethal. Did you completely ignore where I said a couple with a baby were making bombs? And what about that Boston marathon bombing? That was one of the goriest attacks ever, with literal body parts flying everywhere. And it's easier than you think to make a bomb or to even make something explode at all. All you need is something gas-based and some fire. Gas and fire do not mix and cause an explosion.

Ana, you said you're done. Just back out and let it go. And no, I'm not trying to argue with you here - we both know you don't want to argue on this, you came to just state your opinion and leave, nobody worth worrying about will think any worse of you if you walk away when they're trying to fight you.

I'm in Ana's boat as well; all replies to my comments will be ignored. Possible exception being how dumb I regard the answer I receive for my below comment to be.

1 hour ago, Water Mage said:

All right, since you're against gun control then answer me this:

How many times in your entire life have you felt the need to use a gun? How many times having a gun in your home felt like a safe thing to do?

Never to the first question, always to the second, because the possibility that I may have a gun and may be willing to risk legal backlash by using it is usually enough to deter potential intruders to my home.

Also @eclipse will you please do us the favor of moving this to Serious Discussion?

Edited by SoulWeaver

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15 minutes ago, Nym said:

Do not put terrorist attacks and mass shootings in the same basket please, terrorist attacks are something else entirely

...that isn't even a clear-cut line... (an incident can be both a mass shooting and a terrorist attack; there is some overlap)

[Officially]: The difference between a terrorist attack and some other form of bombing or shooting or mass killing is that the terrorist acts with the motive of making a political statement, or influencing law or government policy.  Whereas an ordinary killer has no such motive; he just has a depraved state of mind and engages in violent, antisocial behavior because...reasons...

Somewhere along the way that got warped in the popular culture to: "Terrorism, we go to war with. Mass shootings just happen. Unless the shooter is Muslim--then its terrorism."  America is fucked like that.

But in the eyes of the law, that isn't how it works

Edited by Shoblongoo

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