General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[Ae†her]

I was thinking that to make Excalibur actually helpful to Merric that not only would it be effective against fliers, but it would also grant Merric a special cooldown charge+1 when initiating an attack. The special refine will give him either a Darting Blow 3 or Agile Stance 3. Since Merric has pretty average to disappointingly low Atk/Def/Res just giving him a charge builder should help him with specials, and the Darting Blow 3 will help him shine with his mediocre Spd when initiating, or an Agile Stance 3 can help him avoid follow-up attacks for tanking.

I'm so late.

Edited June 9, 2018 by Ae†her

[Titamon]

I hope Durandal and Naga are next on the list for refine. 

I have a feeling that Naga might be turned into a tome version of Binding Blade which is quite alright with me. But I am curious to see what they do for Durandal's unique refine.

[redlight]

I honestly hope Tyrfing is as well. I kinda want to see it get a wave effect. Something like spd/def wave. For refinement I guess something similar to Loptyr's effect, but for units that target res for attacks

[Hilda]

22 hours ago, Etheus said:

Vengeful Fighter was the one I was really addressing here. It's one of the worst possible examples of power creep. It is an incredibly overpowered, enhanced version of an already strong skill (Quick Riposte), and it is exclusive to armor teams, which are already significantly stronger than they should be because of repeated power creep. Using it as a justification for power creep in another area of the game is not really a good argument.

Imho my biggest beef is with Bold Fighter. Dont get me wrong Vengeful Fighter is powercreep too. every bulky infantry unit would dream of a skill that lets them auto double on enemy or player phase AND makes their special charges faster. The skills would have been fine for armorers only if it werent for the special charge reduction

I mean seriously Bold fighter + Steady Breath + Distant Counter (Breath in Grimas case) + Quick Riposte Seal + Black Luna is a very very shitty combination and unless you run a armor killer weapon or Guard  or a blue/red mage in desperation range capable of doublig you are basicly screwed most of the time.

Steady Breath and Wrath should have stayed Infantry exclusives period

Edited June 9, 2018 by Hilda

[Corrobin]

A thought occured to me.

Say, hypothetically, Bruno were to join the group as a free unit, gained like Legendary Ike or Fjorm from a certain story chapter.

His personal tome, Valaskjalf, has Vantage 2 built into it. It'd definitely need a refinement.

[Hilda]

18 hours ago, Corrobin said:

A thought occured to me.

Say, hypothetically, Bruno were to join the group as a free unit, gained like Legendary Ike or Fjorm from a certain story chapter.

His personal tome, Valaskjalf, has Vantage 2 built into it. It'd definitely need a refinement.

you mean like all the weapons of the start need a refinement? Askr trio weapons are garbage, Veronicas Weapon has been surpassed by Seasonal Halloween weapons etc. I am not sure when or if at all at this point they will bring an Askr trio weapon refine -_-

I hope for a Saizo refine: Smoke dagger with a Felicia upgrade (target weaker stat def or res) with a special refine that grants -1 Special cooldown when fighting units with physical based weapons. Basicly a reversed Felicia!

Also goddammit fix Odin IS!!! Just give him Litrblade Brave tome and he will rise to the top of the cream lulz

[Interdimensional Observer]

Random thought of what to give Jagen and Gunter, since as a combat unit he has reduced BST, why not something to reference the fact that Jagens are commonly used/designed with training weaker units in mind? Would a 1.1 SP and EXP boost for all be too much? Inferior Valors, but that is intended.

 

And how hard/problematic would it be for them to allow for "refinement" of non-Weapon skills? Like being able to turn Hinata's Fury into Triple Threat. 

Edited June 11, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[Ae†her]

Finn deserves a proper specialized Brave Lance eventually. Maybe they should just let him be able to refine his Brave Lance+ like other normal weapons, and for the special they can give him the EP counter? lol

Julia's Naga could be upped to a Def/Res+4 when under attack. For a special effect it could be something like "Grants HP+3. If foe is a magic user grants Atk+6 during combat." 

As for regular Tyrfing, I feel like if they make a Legendary Seliph whatever his Tyrfing is should be the immediate refine upgrade for Seliph's regular Tyrfing or just be inheritable on regular Seliph. I don't think we need a a separate refine for regular Tyrfing especially when we have Divine Tyrfing already. Shining Tyring should be something like this "Grants Spd/Res+2. Once per turn, if unit's HP ≥ 10, and foe would reduce unit's HP to 0, unit survives with 1 HP."

[Ice Dragon]

On 6/8/2018 at 4:31 PM, Etheus said:

Vengeful Fighter was the one I was really addressing here. It's one of the worst possible examples of power creep. It is an incredibly overpowered, enhanced version of an already strong skill (Quick Riposte), and it is exclusive to armor teams, which are already significantly stronger than they should be because of repeated power creep.

One other thing. Vengeful Fighter is not significantly better than Quick Riposte when in the control of the AI opponent, which is how most players encounter it. The lower HP threshold makes no difference on an AI-controlled unit because the player should be taking them far below half HP in a single round of combat in the first place. The Special skill charge rate bonus suffers greatly from the fact that it affects only the unit's attacks and not the opponent's attacks and not the other way around and the fact that Steady Breath and Warding Breath already provide the same bonus, but better, and doesn't stack.

In other words, an enemy unit with Steady Breath and Quick Riposte is functionally indistinguishable from an enemy unit with Steady Breath and Vengeful Fighter, and an enemy unit with Distant Counter and Vengeful Fighter is equally as dead as an enemy unit with Distant Counter and Quick Riposte because any Special other than Moonbow or Glimmer simply won't activate in time.

 

On 6/9/2018 at 2:45 PM, Hilda said:

I mean seriously Bold fighter + Steady Breath + Distant Counter (Breath in Grimas case) + Quick Riposte Seal + Black Luna is a very very shitty combination and unless you run a armor killer weapon or Guard  or a blue/red mage in desperation range capable of doublig you are basicly screwed most of the time.

You're quoting entirely the wrong build.

Any blue tome worth their salt should be able to deal with that build because it can't get Black Luna out in time. The only build Zelgius has that can actually stop a blue tome user (assuming the blue tome user can't simply one-hit kill him) is Quickened Pulse and either Alondite + Steady/Warding Breath or Killing/Slaying Edge + Distant Counter.

And I don't think it's a bad thing that Guard and the armor-effective weapons are now relevant.

 

6 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And how hard/problematic would it be for them to allow for "refinement" of non-Weapon skills? Like being able to turn Hinata's Fury into Triple Threat. 

It'd more likely be implemented as just a new skill on top of the existing one, like how the Staff+ (Gravity+, Recover+, etc.) skills and new unique weapons (Basilikos, Rhomphaia, etc.) were implemented.

 

5 hours ago, Ae†her said:

As for regular Tyrfing, I feel like if they make a Legendary Seliph whatever his Tyrfing is should be the immediate refine upgrade for Seliph's regular Tyrfing or just be inheritable on regular Seliph. I don't think we need a a separate refine for regular Tyrfing especially when we have Divine Tyrfing already. Shining Tyring should be something like this "Grants Spd/Res+2. Once per turn, if unit's HP ≥ 10, and foe would reduce unit's HP to 0, unit survives with 1 HP."

We want a refine for Tyrfing, not a second evolution branch. Siegmund has a refine of its own. Aura has a refine of its own. Excalibur has a refine of its own. No reason why Tyrfing doesn't deserve its own refine.

[Ultraviolence]

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

We want a refine for Tyrfing, not a second evolution branch. Siegmund has a refine of its own. Aura has a refine of its own. Excalibur has a refine of its own. No reason why Tyrfing doesn't deserve its own refine.

I agree with this. And although it isn't related to the original Tyrfing from FE 4 at all, Seliph's Tyrfing should get a Brazen Atk/Def 3 to help him improve in his only decent stats, which are already mediocre in general.

[redlight]

4 hours ago, Ultraviolence said:

I agree with this. And although it isn't related to the original Tyrfing from FE 4 at all, Seliph's Tyrfing should get a Brazen Atk/Def 3 to help him improve in his only decent stats, which are already mediocre in general.

Brazen wouldn't be so good because he needs to enter a round of combat and come out alive. Or you know, use an assist skill. His speed is pretty low causing him to get doubled pretty often. His defense like you mentioned is one of his stats that's considered to be the average for melee infantry units. Something that he could always use is more appreciated. I get that you're going off of his defiant defense skill, but maybe you can go for something like a dual wave skill

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, silveraura25 said:

Brazen wouldn't be so good because he needs to enter a round of combat and come out alive. Or you know, use an assist skill. His speed is pretty low causing him to get doubled pretty often. His defense like you mentioned is one of his stats that's considered to be the average for melee infantry units. Something that he could always use is more appreciated. I get that you're going off of his defiant defense skill, but maybe you can go for something like a dual wave skill

Upgrade "Brazen Def" to Brazen Def/Res 3 as the weapon's base effect.

Unique refine as

If foe's attack triggers Special, accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count -1) and grants Special cooldown charge +1 per attack. (Only highest value applied.)

With Shield Pulse 3 and Quick Riposte 3, he can activate either Pavise or Aegis (with Distant Counter) on every enemy attack (excluding Brave weapons), turning him into some really absurd tank.

Alternatively, he can run Miracle and almost always survive one round of combat provided he isn't killed in a single hit.

 

If they want to be sillier, they can also make it so that any defensive Special also adds the mitigated damage to the next attack like Ice Mirror.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Ice Dragon
Remove apostrophes that don't belong.

[redlight]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

Upgrade "Brazen Def" to Brazen Def/Res 3 as the weapon's base effect.

Unique refine as

If foe's attack trigger's Special, accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count -1) and grants Special cooldown charge +1 per attack. (Only highest value applied.)

With Shield Pulse 3 and Quick Riposte 3, he can activate either Pavise or Aegis (with Distant Counter) on every enemy attack (excluding Brave weapons), turning him into some really absurd tank.

Alternatively, he can run Miracle and almost always survive one round of combat provided he isn't killed in a single hit.

 

If they want to be sillier, they can also make it so that any defensive Special also adds the mitigated damage to the next attack like Ice Mirror.

Damn. That idea sounds so juicy. I love it

[Ae†her]

9 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

We want a refine for Tyrfing, not a second evolution branch. Siegmund has a refine of its own. Aura has a refine of its own. Excalibur has a refine of its own. No reason why Tyrfing doesn't deserve its own refine.

I just think the possibility of three Tyrfing's is overkill. I guess I shouldn't automatically assume there will be a legendary Seliph. If there is a Tyrfing refine I'd prefer it to offer a Sturdy Stance 2. I don't think Res will help Seliph that much when he's not getting help from Divine Tyrfing. I like your idea of an increased Defense Special proc as the refine. I completely forgot about Defense Specials until you mentioned it.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, silveraura25 said:

Damn. That idea sounds so juicy. I love it

4 minutes ago, Ae†her said:

I just think the possibility of three Tyrfing's is overkill. I guess I shouldn't automatically assume there will be a legendary Seliph. If there is a Tyrfing refine I'd prefer it to offer a Sturdy Stance 2. I don't think Res will help Seliph that much when he's not getting help from Divine Tyrfing. I like your idea of an increased Defense Special proc as the refine. I completely forgot about Defense Specials until you mentioned it.

An anti-melee build would be kind of absurd, actually. You'd be looking at

+0 Seliph [+Atk, -Spd]
Tyrfing [unique]
Pavise
Brazen Atk/Def 3
Shield Pulse 3
Quick Riposte 3

for a stat spread of (47)/60/21/44/29 when under 80% HP.

+10 Effie [+Atk] (Silver Lance+ [Atk], Death Blow 3, Attack +3) (74 Atk, 88 effective Atk after weapon triangle) would hit for a (relatively) paltry 17 damage with Shield Pulse-boosted Pavise, though Seliph would be pretty powerless on the counterattack. Pavise and Shield Pulse also apply their effects after Wrath, Bushido, Wo Dao, Light Brand, Vassal's Blade, and Giga Excalibur apply their damage boost, which helps him not really care that he's a Special battery for the opponent.

+10 Zelgius [+Atk] (Wo Dao+ [Atk], Black Luna) (59 Atk, 35-damage Black Luna, 10 damage from Wo Dao+'s effect) hits for 25 damage. The hit that doesn't activate Black Luna hits for a puny 3 damage.

If we do make Tyrfing also add the Ice Mirror effect to Pavise (just to illustrate how glorious that would be), Seliph's counterattack after getting hit by that Black Luna gets boosted by 79 damage for an instant kill.

[Hilda]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

An anti-melee build would be kind of absurd, actually. You'd be looking at

+0 Seliph [+Atk, -Spd]
Tyrfing [unique]
Pavise
Brazen Atk/Def 3
Shield Pulse 3
Quick Riposte 3

for a stat spread of (47)/60/21/44/29 when under 80% HP.

+10 Effie [+Atk] (Silver Lance+ [Atk], Death Blow 3, Attack +3) (74 Atk, 88 effective Atk after weapon triangle) would hit for a (relatively) paltry 17 damage with Shield Pulse-boosted Pavise, though Seliph would be pretty powerless on the counterattack. Pavise and Shield Pulse also apply their effects after Wrath, Bushido, Wo Dao, Light Brand, Vassal's Blade, and Giga Excalibur apply their damage boost, which helps him not really care that he's a Special battery for the opponent.

+10 Zelgius [+Atk] (Wo Dao+ [Atk], Black Luna) (59 Atk, 35-damage Black Luna, 10 damage from Wo Dao+'s effect) hits for 25 damage. The hit that doesn't activate Black Luna hits for a puny 3 damage.

If we do make Tyrfing also add the Ice Mirror effect to Pavise (just to illustrate how glorious that would be), Seliph's counterattack after getting hit by that Black Luna gets boosted by 79 damage for an instant kill.

Looks interesting, and as you mentioned specials in the form of Ice mirror for ranged or close (depending what you want) could lead to more interesting unit builds.

[Corrobin]

Hey, what kind of effects do you think other Judgral weapons would have?

Like Gae Bolg, Yewfelle, Holsety and Balmung.

[Ice Dragon]

18 minutes ago, Corrobin said:

Like Gae Bolg, Yewfelle, Holsety and Balmung.

Thorhammer's +20 Skill and +10 Speed got translated to the Killer weapon effect and +6 Spd on initiation, so Holsety's +10 Skill and +20 Speed will obviously be translated to half the Killer weapon effect and +12 Spd on initiation.

Obviously.

Ichii-bal would make sense to have an Atk/Spd boost (Swift Sparrow, Atk/Spd Bond, reverse Brazen Atk/Spd, etc.) and Renewal or Recover Ring's effect.

Balmunc's +10 Skill and +20 Speed can get the same effect as Holsety: half the Killer weapon effect and +12 Spd on initiation.

I'm expecting Gaebolg to get something like Atk/Def Bond Cavalry/Fliers similarly to Camilla's Axe (but with Def instead of Spd).

Edited June 11, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[Corrobin]

Okay, so we have coming:

Katarina: Reese's Tome

Nephenee: Dauntless Lance

Titania:  Draconic Poleaxe

What effects do you think they'll have?

[Jingle Jangle]

10 minutes ago, Corrobin said:

Okay, so we have coming:

Katarina: Reese's Tome

Nephenee: Dauntless Lance

Titania:  Draconic Poleaxe

What effects do you think they'll have?

• Katarina could have a bond effect next to bow or ax units.
• For Neph, in RD daunt lowered the crit rate and accuracy therefore guard 3.
•  Titania can have a poleaxe with close defense since she had counter in her games.

[Silverly]

Anything but bond effects, please. PLEASE. We already have like a hundred refines like that. Just have it be straightforward like the January/April refines.

Edited June 30, 2018 by SilvertheShadow

[Ice Dragon]

Reese's Tome:

The weapon's name is pretty nondescript in both English and Japanese so I'm just going to take a shot in the dark and say Res Ploy 3 and Phantom Res 3.

Dauntless Lance:

It's name is 義勇の槍 (giyuu no yari), "Lance of Loyalty and Bravery", in Japanese.

Its Japanese name kind of screams Resolve (勇将 (yuushou), "Brave General") to me mostly because she was one of two characters in Path of Radiance able to run the Wrath + Resolve combo without needing both skill scrolls. I'm expecting something like Brazen Atk/Spd 3 and Desperation 3.

Draconic Poleax:

Its name is 傭兵団の戦斧 (youheidan no senfu), "Mercenary Band's Battle Axe", in Japanese, where "battle axe" is the literal translation of the poleax weapon series from Radiant Dawn.

The "draconic" in English makes me think it'll either be effective against dragons or use the lower of Def and Res for damage mitigation. I'm hoping for the latter.

The "mercenary band" in Japanese makes me think it'll have either a "two or more allies within two squares" or "same number or more allies within two squares than enemies" effect. Maybe something like Laws of Sacae.

[Tenzen12]

6 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Dauntless Lance:

It's name is 義勇の槍 (giyuu no yari), "Lance of Loyalty and Bravery", in Japanese.

Its Japanese name kind of screams Resolve (勇将 (yuushou), "Brave General") to me mostly because she was one of two characters in Path of Radiance able to run the Wrath + Resolve combo without needing both skill scrolls. I'm expecting something like Brazen Atk/Spd 3 and Desperation 3.

I assume Bravery part is written differently from "Brave" weapons, isn't it?

Edited July 1, 2018 by Tenzen12

[Ice Dragon]

8 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

I assume Bravery part is written differently from "Brave" weapons, isn't it?

Kind of sort of.

"Loyalty and bravery" is 義勇 (giyuu), literally righteousness 義 (gi) smooshed together with bravery 勇 (yuu). The entire compound can be translated as one as "heroism", but I used a more verbose translation because "hero" is kind of a loaded word.

The "brave" in Brave weapons is 勇者の (yuusha no), literally "hero's" as in 勇者の槍 (yuusha no yari), "hero's lance", for Brave Lance. The word for "hero", 勇者 (yuusha), can be deconstructed as "brave person" (and is also the Japanese name of the Hero class).

[TheWill]

Katarina getting 'Chill Speed' to align with Lilina/Soren's refines seems likely.

I bet Nephenee will just get the Wo Dao + Slaying Spear similar to Minerva/Karel's weapons. 

For Titania I have no idea. She already slays dragons pretty well, so I'm impartial to it being effective against dragons. I guess more Nowi counters is good, but in the end the Japanese name shows no real indication of what the skills would be.