General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[ILikeKirbys]

1 hour ago, Jingle Jangle said:

The reason I chose of Atk/Res Solo instead of Brazen Atk/Res is because I don't want it to be too similar to Celica's Ragnarok tome.

Ah, that makes sense. Although, going from Blárowl+ to ATK/RES Solo Tome is a bit similar to Ragnarok’s refinement, in that it completely changes how Mae’s default weapon works once it gets refined. I still like it a lot.

[Corrobin]

Athena:
Foreigner's Sword: +10 to damage when Special activates.
Refine: Flashing Blade

Saizo:
Blazing Star: After combat, if unit attacked, inflicts Def/Res-7 on target and foes within 2 spaces of target through their next actions, and grants Def/Res+7 to unit and allies within 2 spaces for 1 turn.
Refine: Brazen Speed/Defense

Kagero:
Kunoichi's Dagger: Effective against Infantry foes.
Refine: Mirror Strike

Laslow:
Dancer's Claymore: Effective against Cavalry. After combat, if unit attacked, grants +6 Speed to the ally with the highest Speed through their next action.
Refine: Attack/Defense Link

Peri:
Bloody Lance: Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count -1)
Refine: Attack/Speed Push

[Ice Dragon]

I'm vaguely amused at the localization for Tailtiu's weapon.

FE4's Thoron (トローン) is spelled differently than Thoron from FE5 and later (トロン) in Japanese, so Tailtiu's Tome of Thoron is the former in Japanese Heroes whereas the Silver weapon equivalent Thoron is the latter in Japanese Heroes.

I'm hoping it gets Wrath as one of its two effects since Tailtiu was cheated out of being able to learn the skill itself.

 

On 12/30/2018 at 6:05 AM, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

I noticed this is the very first time a refine evo weapon got a refinement, that being Divine Naga being originally a side weapon to Naga 

Im somewhat surprised Divine Naga is technically still a Tier 1 Legendary though, with Dragonslayer and buff cleanse with no stats in sight

That's because Divine Naga has only a single non-free effect, which makes it eligible for refines at the current state of the game's balance.

Dull All was probably considered a powerful enough of an effect at the time it was implemented to not warrant a second effect, but it's clear that that's no longer the case since refined Fensalir also has the same skill effect alongside a second effect.

 

I'm hoping they both get at the minimum the two non-healing effects of Mystic Boost (negation of adaptive damage and negation of Wrathful Staff).

[ILikeKirbys]

44 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

That's because Divine Naga has only a single non-free effect, which makes it eligible for refines at the current state of the game's balance.

Dull All was probably considered a powerful enough of an effect at the time it was implemented to not warrant a second effect, but it's clear that that's no longer the case since refined Fensalir also has the same skill effect alongside a second effect.

So, by this logic, could Shiro, Seigbert and Green Olwen be eligible for refinements on their weapons? Since their weapons only have one effect (unless two-stat Stance/Blow skills count as two effects? Not 100% sure on this one... also not sure if Odin's Grimoire being basically refineable Thunderhead makes refineable Thunderhead a possibility or not, but since you brought up refined Fensalir in regards to Divine Naga I figure I should ask).

As for Tailtiu, she's either gonna get something + Wrath (I can't see her getting Wrath as the base effect for her weapon (though I wouldn't mind being wrong here), personally I'm hoping she gets Berserk Armads: The Tome since it'd probably be super great on her) or Slaying + Wo Dao since we don't have a tome for that yet (and she could probably make it work pretty well, even if it might not be as good as a Wrath weapon).

Deirdre and Julia are definitely getting at least the Null Adaptive Damage part of Mystic Boost. They've got to, it's the most obvious buff for ranged units who are supposed to fight Dragons despite having low DEF and thus getting deleted on the counterattack due to adaptive damage.

Edited January 5, 2019 by ILikeKirbys

[Ice Dragon]

7 minutes ago, ILikeKirbys said:

So, by this logic, could Shiro, Seigbert and Green Olwen be eligible for refinements? Since their weapons only have one effect (unless two-stat Stance/Blow skills count as two effects? Not 100% sure on this one... also not sure if Odin's Grimoire being basically refineable Thunderhead makes refineable Thunderhead a possibility or not, but since you brought up refined Fensalir in regards to Divine Naga I figure I should ask).

Eligible, yes. Likely only for Shiro's and Seigbert's, though (and even then, not in the near future). The dual Stance 2 and Blow 2 skills are considered single third-tier skills by all rights.

While Thunderhead is literally an unrefined Odin's Grimoire, Olwen actually has a competent stat line whereas Odin does not. This means that while the weapon is certainly eligible for a refine at the current balance level, it is unlikely to actually get one anytime soon. If it does get one in the near future, it's likely to get a far weaker second effect than Odin's Grimoire did.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[bottlegnomes]

I do hope Tailtiu gets some form of Wrath. My only concern is that they might see that as potentially making her too good for a non-5* character. Then again, Fir, Shana, and Michalis have gotten the next best thing in the slaying wo weapons, so it's not completely out of the question. Wouldn't complain if she even got that. It'd let her run special spiral quite nicely. I'd laugh my ass off if they gave her a tome where both effects were wrath. "You complained about Tailtiu not getting Wrath? Have some Wrath with your Wrath."

Is it just me or could Quan really do with a refinement? Not especially sure what his ideal build is anymore, but doing some quick screwing around in the combat sim, for EP builds, def refined Slaying Lance, Reprisal Lance, and Harmonic Lance all function just about as well. I guess it does function somewhat better on PP. It just seems like a somewhat unimpressive weapon for an already somewhat unimpressive unit added at a time when everyone and their mother is getting impressive weapons.

[XRay]

9 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

for EP builds, def refined Slaying Lance, Reprisal Lance, and Harmonic Lance all function just about as well

For Def/Res tanks, Slaying Weapons are generally preferred to activate a higher cooldown Special.

Assuming a tank has 50 Def:
Slaying-Ignis:
[0] + [0+{40}] = 40 damage
Reprisal-Bonfire:
[7] + [7+{25}] = 39 damage
Gae Bolg:
[5] + [5+{(5*0.8)+25}] = 39 damage
Wo-Bonfire:
[0] + [0+{10+25}] = 35 damage
Safeguard-Bonfire:
[0] + [0+{(5*0.8)+25}] = 29 damage

[Mercakete]

Custom red tome for Tormod: Ally beast units within 2 spaces gain def/res+3. This unit counts as a beast unit for the purpose of allowing allied transformation.

I'm not so great at this, but building a custom tome for him sounded fun. Someone word this better/make it more realistic wrt stats.

[redlight]

So it seems Sturdy Blow 4 was the skill tag I thought Seliph would have. Goddamn it

[Fabulously Olivier]

So what are your most desired characters for a WF update now?

 

Mine are:

10. Corrin (F)

9. Lucius

8. Frederick

7. Jamke

6. Berkut

5. Klein

4. Lyon

3. Barst

2. Lukas

1. Hawkeye

[bottlegnomes]

10 hours ago, redlight said:

So it seems Sturdy Blow 4 was the skill tag I thought Seliph would have. Goddamn it

Oh yeah, that was something along the lines of "stat increase plus negate follow-up." Well that's disappointing as hell. Guess it's still up to legendary Seliph to make him halfway decent. Not that that'll ever happen.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

1 minute ago, Etheus said:

So what are your most desired characters for a WF update now?

 

Mine are:

10. Corrin (F)

9. Lucius

8. Frederick

7. Jamke

6. Berkut

5. Klein

4. Lyon

3. Barst

2. Lukas

1. Hawkeye

Rebecca. I'm still waiting on Rebecca's refine.

[bottlegnomes]

Regarding desired refinements. Part of me wishes they'd finish upgrading the gen 1 personals and then actually make an effort to introduce actual desirable inheritable weapons.

As for specific units, Quan for God's sake. His weapon barely counts as gen 2, let alone being unimpressive for a gen 2 weapon.

[Jingle Jangle]

25 minutes ago, Etheus said:

So what are your most desired characters for a WF update now?

My list is in no particular order 

1.Sonya

2.Barst

3.Mathilda

4. Donnel

5. Mae

6. Laslow

7. Saizo

8. Arvis

9. Faye

10. vanilla Azura

With Leanne and Reyson both having the Heron Wing despite having different colors. Is it more plausible that Olwen can have Thunderhead from her green self?

[Ice Dragon]

35 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

and then actually make an effort to introduce actual desirable inheritable weapons.

It really bugs me that the only actually good inheritable (melee physical) weapons are basically Slaying weapons, Wo Dao weapons, and weapons with limited availability. And armor-effective weapons, I guess.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[Corrobin]

Athena:
Foreigner's Sword: +10 to damage when Special activates.
Refine: Flashing Blade

Saizo:
Blazing Star: After combat, if unit attacked, inflicts Def/Res-7 on target and foes within 2 spaces of target through their next actions, and grants Def/Res+7 to unit and allies within 2 spaces for 1 turn.
Refine: Brazen Speed/Defense

Kagero:
Kunoichi's Dagger: Effective against Infantry foes.
Refine: Mirror Strike

Laslow:
Dancer's Claymore: Effective against Cavalry. After combat, if unit attacked, grants +6 Speed to the ally with the highest Speed through their next action.
Refine: Attack/Defense Link

Peri:
Bloody Lance: Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count -1)
Refine: Attack/Speed Push

[bottlegnomes]

22 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

It really bugs me that the only actually good inheritable (melee physical) weapons are basically Slaying weapons, Wo Dao weapons, and weapons with limited availability. And armor-effective weapons, I guess.

Yeah, it's gotten quite irksome. It'd be nice to actually have options rather than the process being 1) Is this unit good enough to be a generalist? 2) Do I have wo fodder or slaying fodder? It also doesn't really help that slaying weapons are still refinery only, though I suppose it is a nice justification to produce some extra dew. I know I've found myself refining random weapons just to get some.

[Ice Dragon]

3 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

It also doesn't really help that slaying weapons are still refinery only, though I suppose it is a nice justification to produce some extra dew. I know I've found myself refining random weapons just to get some.

I refuse to use rocks to evolve weapons, so I'm unfortunately just stuck refining every staff and seasonal weapon I can get my hands on.

Also, it just feels bad when you refine a weapon for a character and then they get a New Power weapon that makes the inheritable weapon obsolete.

At least I can pretend that the Robins don't have unique weapons of their own because theirs suck so badly. Even more so now that Gray Waves made Spectrum Tactic obsolete.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[bottlegnomes]

17 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I refuse to use rocks to evolve weapons, so I'm unfortunately just stuck refining every staff and seasonal weapon I can get my hands on.

Also, it just feels bad when you refine a weapon for a character and then they get a New Power weapon that makes the inheritable weapon obsolete.

At least I can pretend that the Robins don't have unique weapons of their own because theirs suck so badly. Even more so now that Gray Waves made Spectrum Tactic obsolete.

Yeah, the whole lack of availability thing is ridiculous. While I personally don't get SS being 5* exclusive still, it's even more ridiculous that the only sources of raudrowl are that same 5* exclusive or limited (albeit now more time-gated rather than a hard, small max). Gronn- and  blar- are 3-4*, and on top of that not like any are a Rein situation where being easily available necessitates months of mitigation to make them not cancerous. And then there's the weapons that don't even exist outside the refinery. Those are the absolute worst. At least Silas brought some nifty stuff into the 4* pool. Just wish they'd do that more.

I do think they're a little over-zealous with powercreep, but as you said elsewhere, the far bigger issue is availability. Null- followup would be very helpful in making infantry stand out, but no one aside from whales is likely to get more than one copy.

And same on refinements. Catria, who thankfully is  was like well, I guess I have some dew now? But there goes all that SP and those rocks that someone else could've used. Not that they'd be using it for long given how personal weapons are basically candy at this point.

[The Lord Of Gems]

Cecilia:
Aircalibur: Mt 14. Grants Spd +3. Effective against fliers.
Refine: At start of turn, grants Spd/Res +5 to allies within 2 spaces for one turn. Granted only if number of that ally's movement type on current team is equal to/less than 2. 

Canas:
Gespenst: Mt 14. During combat, boosts unit's Atk/Spd/Def/Res for each adjacent ally x 2.
Refine: Inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res -5 on foes within 2 spaces of target through their next actions after combat. 

Oboro:
Oboro's Spear: Mt 16. Effective against armored units.
Refine: If the number of enemies within 2 spaces is greater than the number of allies, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res +4 during combat. 

Olivia:
Olivia's Blade: Mt 16. Grants Spd +3. If an ally's HP is less than/equal to 50%, unit can move to a space adjacent to that ally.
Refine: If unit uses dance/sing on an ally, grant that ally Atk/Def/Res +4.

[bottlegnomes]

7 hours ago, The Lord Of Gems said:

Cecilia:
Aircalibur: Mt 14. Grants Spd +3. Effective against fliers.
Refine: At start of turn, grants Spd/Res +5 to allies within 2 spaces for one turn. Granted only if number of that ally's movement type on current team is equal to/less than 2.

Why speed? Even a +speed life and death Cecilia would only be hitting 37 speed, which anymore basically amounts to I don't get doubled by everything.

[Ice Dragon]

8 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Why speed? Even a +speed life and death Cecilia would only be hitting 37 speed, which anymore basically amounts to I don't get doubled by everything.

The original Aircalibur has an absurdly low Weight for its rank, having only 2 Weight as a B-rank weapon.

 

@The Lord Of Gems That said, Speed +3 is an absurdly terrible base weapon effect, especially when compared to Excalibur, which has the Slaying effect. At least give it Darting Blow 3 or something actually relevant. Stat+ skills should not be on the weapon base effect for refinable weapons in the first place (same goes with Olivia's Blade).

[redlight]

Tailtiu is possibly better Ishtar. Possibly. Basically wrath instead of cooldown trigger-1

Anyways, Julia and Deirdre's refine is what I thought they'd be. They're rather good

Seliph's I'm on the fence about

[Kaden]

Did regular Naga's unique refinement just imply we might get dragon healers in the future?

Unless the localization team fucked up again, it specifically states that against dragon foes that it would disable adaptive damage and Wrathful Staff.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Kaden

[redlight]

8 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Did regular Naga's unique refinement just imply we might get dragon healers in the future?

Unless the localization team fucked up again, it specifically states that against dragon foes that it would disable adaptive damage and Wrathful Staff.

Nah. That's just a part of mystic boost