General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[DehNutCase]

34 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The thing about Litrblade is that if you're not setting up your team to use Litrblade, it doesn't work, if you get Panicked at the start of enemy phase, it doesn't work, and if you run into an opponent with Hardy Bearing or Cloud Maiougi, you're toast if you can't reach them first.

-blade's support requirements might've stayed the same, but supports have gotten massively better to the point where not running a full +6 suite of buffs* would be a deliberate decision to avoid things like panic and Niu rather than not being able to fit them into the team. And Panic is one of those things where you'd have to misplay pretty badly to get hit by. You can either just kill the panic person, kill the panic house, or not be in range for it in the first place. (There's also the nuclear option of just spreading enough savage blow stacks that everything is OHKOd without buffs, of course. You can get 3 hits of a pain staffer in pretty consistently if you don't care about dancing your -blade user. But honestly I've never had to go out of my way to avoid panic.)

*And I am not primarily thinking of Azura when saying this. Tactics, Links, etc. all save unit-turns if you want to have consistent first round combat.

And, mind, disable combat order by themselves don't stop -blade. You still need to be able to OHKO them, or you're still dead. Sophia spreads have a lot of bulk. Ophelia is pretty much the only unit that consistently runs that much Atk, so I just beeline her. (Ophelia teams don't tend to need Pain staff support to wipe, due to her wanting 2 tomes. Infantry Pulse variants are possible, of course, but also kind of weird since a lot of other people can do her job in a Pulse Team.)

34 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

And the fact that setting up Vantage isn't reliable in the Arena. Because, you know, Aether Raids isn't the only game mode in this game.

In the arena I can still hit people to death with -blade on player phase. And if you're getting OHKOd from losing 10 or so bulk---from +6 def/res & refine options---your owl tomer is kind of sad anyway.

34 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

But Prayer Wheel being broken means you can still run Prayer Wheel's buffs regardless of your weapon. A unit with Litrowl has +2 HP and +3 Def or Res without the in-combat buffs compared to a unit with Litrblade when running the same buffs.

Having 15.5 extra hp (2.5 * 3 + 6 + 2) when you're in the negatives regardless doesn't do much, though. It's basically the difference of having 5 extra base res from being a melee rather than a ranged, and just dropping tomes entirely.

Like, there are reasons to use owl over -blade, but AoE specials aren't one of them.

Edited March 7, 2019 by DehNutCase

[Garlyle]

Sonya - I don't have her yet, but looks like a good one.

Delthea - looks like the winner in my opinion - just give that girl a Drive Atk seal and let everyone be very offensive, including her. I haven't used her much yet, but this might change with this refine.

Klein - while I do like the effects, the 8 Mt on this weapon is too little. Since Klein already have a very low Attack, an 11 Mt could have been what he was looking for.

Sophia - I am really not feeling this one. Looks like she lost out with the weapon refines as well - Sophia got abysmal speed, and the tome doesn't help her out of that one either.

[Ice Dragon]

20 minutes ago, Garlyle said:

Since Klein already have a very low Attack, an 11 Mt could have been what he was looking for.

There is no way in hell a ranged Brave weapon going to have 11 Mt. That's how much Mt an exclusive melee Brave weapon has.

 

22 minutes ago, Garlyle said:

Sophia got abysmal speed, and the tome doesn't help her out of that one either.

Sophia wants her Spd as low as possible to charge up a stronger Special. The lowered Spd compared to Raudhrowl is actually a benefit to her, not a detriment.

The problem with the weapon is that relative to Raudhrowl+ [Def] with 2 stacks, it loses 2 HP, 1 Atk, and 3 Def, gaining only -4 Spd, weapon triangle advantage against colorless units, and less reliance on positioning, which makes it only a side grade instead of an actual improvement.

[Garlyle]

7 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Sophia wants her Spd as low as possible to charge up a stronger Special. The lowered Spd compared to Raudhrowl is actually a benefit to her, not a detriment.

In what build would an infantry mage prefer Spd as low as possible? I'm curious what skills or specials you imagine for that setup.

[redlight]

10 minutes ago, Garlyle said:

In what build would an infantry mage prefer Spd as low as possible? I'm curious what skills or specials you imagine for that setup.

The kind that wants the opponent to initiate and double to build up special charge for yourself. Sophia has the bulk

Edited March 7, 2019 by redlight

[Stroud]

Glad about Sonyas refine, this is just what my AoE Sonya needed to start from turn 1. This makes it easier to use her on def teams and offensive likewise. Only shame is, with Killer effect she would not need to rely on Heavyblade seal...but I can Mikoto make up for it. 

I am a bit uncertain about Sophia, but I guess I will find a niche for her, shame though that its not something as we could expect...at least it also helps her against units like Eir I guess, I will give her refine a chance. Now we only need a unit who helps buffing her combat def/res from 2 spaces...

 

[Ice Dragon]

8 hours ago, Garlyle said:

In what build would an infantry mage prefer Spd as low as possible? I'm curious what skills or specials you imagine for that setup.

Sophia [+Def] (Raudhrowl+ [Def], Bonfire, Close Counter, Guard 3, Quick Riposte 3).

Sophia has good mixed bulk, with 42/38/33 defenses when she has 2 stacks of Raudhrowl up before other buffs. She also has easy access to merges for 46/42/37 defenses, and with full Dragonflower investment can hit 48/44/39.

In comparison, if you can only pull a single copy of Winter Tharja, +0 Winter Tharja [=] (Raudhrowl+ [Def], Ignis, Close Counter, Vengeful Fighter 3) sits at a comparable 45/41/40 with 2 stacks of Raudhrowl.

Edited March 7, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[Fabulously Olivier]

Any predictions for next month?

 

I'm predicting:

Female Corrin, Male Kana, and Female Kana gets the same new weapon

Gerome gets Cherche's Axe

Rhajat gets Rhajat's Hex (similar or identical to Tharja's Hex)

Hana OR Laslow gets a new weapon

 

New Power Banner:

Female Corrin

Female Kana

Rhajat

Hana or Laslow

 

 

Excited to find out how right or wrong I am in a couple weeks or so. Hoping to be wrong, as Laslow is the only one that would excite me here.

[colossus86]

I really hope they show some love to the lance Cavs in the next round. They all feel so same-y. Would also be nice to see them take a chance on adding another prf staff to the game. I get why they haven't bothered but it could be nice for someone like Elise.

Other than that I'd expect at least one more "patch job" refine for an older 5 star they refuse to demote. Some good Candidates on that front would be Luke, OG Azura, and Elise.

On a personal note, I'm holding out hope for a new Weapon for Clarisse and Legion. They don't really serve any purpose even if you're just comparing them to other free units.

[XRay]

2 hours ago, Etheus said:

Hana OR Laslow gets a new weapon

2 hours ago, Etheus said:

Hoping to be wrong, as Laslow is the only one that would excite me here.

For something exciting, I hope Laslow has Dance on his Weapon to refresh the target whenever he uses an Assist. It is just wishful thinking, but it would be nice to have another Dancer.

[Fabulously Olivier]

15 minutes ago, XRay said:

For something exciting, I hope Laslow has Dance on his Weapon to refresh the target whenever he uses an Assist. It is just wishful thinking, but it would be nice to have another Dancer.

That would be an interesting mechanic, but unlikely. It's more likely that they'll reference his dancing with a Link skill (Atk/Def link would be ideal) or a Hone Atk buff. 

[Jingle Jangle]

For next month I would like to see Laslow, Mathilda, or Faye get a refine the most. They deserve justice after being ignored for so long.

[XRay]

11 minutes ago, Etheus said:

That would be an interesting mechanic, but unlikely. It's more likely that they'll reference his dancing with a Link skill (Atk/Def link would be ideal) or a Hone Atk buff. 

Those are nice ideas. I think I will go with double Links since that is two skills required to buff something to 6/6/6/6 instead of the usual four like Tactics.

Olivia's Blade:
If an Assist skill is used by unit or targets unit, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+6 to unit and target ally or unit and targeting ally for 1 turn.

Refinement
If an Assist skill is used by unit, grants another action to target ally. (Does not affect an ally with Sing or Dance.This skill treated as Sing or Dance.)

[Fabulously Olivier]

7 minutes ago, XRay said:

Those are nice ideas. I think I will go with double Links since that is two skills required to buff something to 6/6/6/6 instead of the usual four like Tactics.

Olivia's Blade:
If an Assist skill is used by unit or targets unit, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+6 to unit and target ally or unit and targeting ally for 1 turn.

Refinement
If an Assist skill is used by unit, grants another action to target ally. (Does not affect an ally with Sing or Dance.This skill treated as Sing or Dance.)

Laslow is just as much a fighter as a dancer though. Pure support doesn't do his pretty solid EP statline justice.

 

Dancing Blade:

Accelerate special trigger (cooldown -1)

 

Refine:

Attack/Def Link 3

 

 

Give him Reposition or Swap, Glimmer/Moonbow/Bonfire/Blue Flame, Steady Breath, Quick Riposte, Hone Spd/Spd Tactic and watch him go to work.

[Hilda]

Still waiting on a Saizo refine ._. also Kagero Refine ._. also Jakob Refine. Where did the Dagger refines go lol

[Fabulously Olivier]

Just now, Hilda said:

Still waiting on a Saizo refine ._. also Kagero Refine ._. also Jakob Refine. Where did the Dagger refines go lol

At this point, even Sothe should be eligible for a refine (it is a one effect weapon after all). And with him being one of the better units, you know the dagger class needs help.

[Diovani Bressan]

1 hour ago, Etheus said:

At this point, even Sothe should be eligible for a refine (it is a one effect weapon after all). And with him being one of the better units, you know the dagger class needs help.

Sothe's refine would probably be something like: If unit is within 2 spaces of a infantry mage ally, grants something."

[Sasori]

How about the Marth retainer squad getting refines? Some of the fates retainers already got some attention, but not a single one of the fe1 characters has gotten a refine. Abel and Cain really needs them too since who even uses them nowadays?Gordin doesn't have it as bad, but he probably wants a little boost as well.

Jagen might even have the potential for fun builds if they make the weapon work with his big res stat. He probably still won't be good, but it could be interesting at least.
 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Sasori

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Still sitting here waiting for Rebecca's prf weapon!

[ILikeKirbys]

28 minutes ago, Sasori said:

How about the Marth retainer squad getting refines? Some of the fates retainers already got some attention, but not a single one of the fe1 characters has gotten a refine. Abel and Cain really needs them too since who even uses them nowadays?Gordin doesn't have it as bad, but he probably wants a little boost as well.

Jagen might even have the potential for fun builds if they make the weapon work with his big res stat. He probably still won't be good, but it could be interesting at least.

Caeda, Merric and Linde have had refines for a while now, with Ogma and Navarre also getting refines recently.

I agree with what you're saying though. Cain, Abel, Jagen, Gordin and Draug could all use refines to stand out, and hell, throw Wrys in there too. Maybe stuff like...

Jagen - Veteran Knight
Veteran's Lance | MT 16 | At start of turn, inflicts ATK/DEF -4 on foes in cardinal directions with lower RES than unit through their next actions.
Refine: When unit's RES > foe's RES during combat, grants bonus ATK/SPD/DEF/RES equal to 50% of the difference. (Maximum bonus of +8).

Cain - The Bull
Bull Blade | MT 16 | Accelerates Special Trigger (cooldown count -1).
Refine: When unit's HP < 80% at start of combat, grants ATK/SPD +7 during combat.

Abel - The Panther
Panther Spear | MT 11 | Inflicts SPD -5. Unit attacks twice when initiating combat.
Refine: Grants ATK/SPD +5 during combat when a Cavalry or Flying ally is within 2 spaces.

Gordin - Altean Archer
Altean Bow | MT 9 | Effective against Flying. Inflicts SPD -5. Unit attacks twice when initiating combat.
Refine: When initiating combat, if unit's DEF > foe's DEF +3 at start of combat, grants ATK +4 and Special Charge +1 per unit's attack during combat.

Draug - Gentle Giant
Giant's Sword | MT 16 | Deals +10 damage when Special triggers.
Refine: When unit's DEF > foe's DEF +3 at start of combat, grants ATK/SPD/DEF/RES +3 during combat.

Wrys - Kindly Priest
Barrier | MT 14 | At start of turn, unit and allies within 2 spaces recover 7 HP.
Refine: Grants RES +8 to unit and inflicts Special Charge -1 on foe during combat when foe initiates combat.

2 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Sothe's refine would probably be something like: If unit is within 2 spaces of a infantry mage ally, grants something."

So, something like "Grants "When foe initiates combat and uses Bow, Dagger, Magic, or Staff, grants DEF/RES +6 during combat" to Infantry Magic and Infantry Staff allies within 2 spaces"? Basically Distant Guard 3 except better and exclusive to Infantry mages (so, Micaiah) and healers (because Micaiah could use staves in Radiant Dawn, also just in case Micaiah ever gets a Staff alt Sothe can protect that Micaiah as well).

6 hours ago, colossus86 said:

Other than that I'd expect at least one more "patch job" refine for an older 5 star they refuse to demote. Some good Candidates on that front would be Luke, OG Azura, and Elise.

I'm not so sure Elise needs a "patch job," as she has Cavalry movement and access to Cavalry buffs, decent ATK and SPD, enough RES to run Ploys, and Dazzling Staff so she doesn't have to worry especially much about her flaws of being fragile and getting murdered by anything physical. If there's any 5-Star-exclusive healer who needs a Prf ASAP, I would say it's Mist, who's basically a more balanced Wrys (which isn't a good thing, as she still doesn't have enough ATK/SPD/DEF to be able to do all that much with them... maybe if she got a staff with Foxkit Fang's effect she could make use of those stats, but otherwise she's just balanced to a fault) but 5-Star-locked and could use a personal staff to elevate herself above other infantry healers.

I agree on Luke and Azura 1.0 though, it'd be nice to see those two get refines.

[colossus86]

6 minutes ago, ILikeKirbys said:

I'm not so sure Elise needs a "patch job," as she has Cavalry movement and access to Cavalry buffs, decent ATK and SPD, enough RES to run Ploys, and Dazzling Staff so she doesn't have to worry especially much about her flaws of being fragile and getting murdered by anything physical. If there's any 5-Star-exclusive healer who needs a Prf ASAP, I would say it's Mist, who's basically a more balanced Wrys (which isn't a good thing, as she still doesn't have enough ATK/SPD/DEF to be able to do all that much with them... maybe if she got a staff with Foxkit Fang's effect she could make use of those stats, but otherwise she's just balanced to a fault) but 5-Star-locked and could use a personal staff to elevate herself above other infantry healers.

I agree on Luke and Azura 1.0 though, it'd be nice to see those two get refines.

Amelia got a Prf not because she was bad overall, but because she was very underwhelming when compared to other 5 star locked units of the same class. Elise has no real statistical advantage over units with similar availability and unlike the others, she has garbage fodder. If I pulled an Elise today, I would be pissed and that's not something I can say about anyone else that shares her class and availability 

[ILikeKirbys]

1 hour ago, colossus86 said:

Amelia got a Prf not because she was bad overall, but because she was very underwhelming when compared to other 5 star locked units of the same class. Elise has no real statistical advantage over units with similar availability and unlike the others, she has garbage fodder. If I pulled an Elise today, I would be pissed and that's not something I can say about anyone else that shares her class and availability 

Ah, I see what you mean. Elise is inferior to Maribelle and Brave Veronica offensively and fodder-wise, yeah. I could see her getting a Prf to help her compete with them. And to be honest, I would like to see that.

[Diovani Bressan]

6 hours ago, ILikeKirbys said:

Cain, Abel, Jagen, Gordin and Draug could all use refines to stand out, and hell, throw Wrys in there too. Maybe stuff like...

Jagen - Veteran Knight
Veteran's Lance | MT 16 | At start of turn, inflicts ATK/DEF -4 on foes in cardinal directions with lower RES than unit through their next actions.
Refine: When unit's RES > foe's RES during combat, grants bonus ATK/SPD/DEF/RES equal to 50% of the difference. (Maximum bonus of +8).

Cain - The Bull
Bull Blade | MT 16 | Accelerates Special Trigger (cooldown count -1).
Refine: When unit's HP < 80% at start of combat, grants ATK/SPD +7 during combat.

Abel - The Panther
Panther Spear | MT 11 | Inflicts SPD -5. Unit attacks twice when initiating combat.
Refine: Grants ATK/SPD +5 during combat when a Cavalry or Flying ally is within 2 spaces.

Gordin - Altean Archer
Altean Bow | MT 9 | Effective against Flying. Inflicts SPD -5. Unit attacks twice when initiating combat.
Refine: When initiating combat, if unit's DEF > foe's DEF +3 at start of combat, grants ATK +4 and Special Charge +1 per unit's attack during combat.

Draug - Gentle Giant
Giant's Sword | MT 16 | Deals +10 damage when Special triggers.
Refine: When unit's DEF > foe's DEF +3 at start of combat, grants ATK/SPD/DEF/RES +3 during combat.

Wrys - Kindly Priest
Barrier | MT 14 | At start of turn, unit and allies within 2 spaces recover 7 HP.
Refine: Grants RES +8 to unit and inflicts Special Charge -1 on foe during combat when foe initiates combat.

I really liked all if your ideas.

• The "Selkie" effect for Jagen works pretty well, since he has the same base Res as Selkie. Just give him Spd and Res Ploy in the C and Seal slot, so he can debuff all stats of his opponents.
• Cain needs some Atk boost and Brazen Atk/Spd will do the job. I don't know if this would make him a better pick than Ares, but still... he would become more viable.
• I liked Cain's refinement. It is a good reference to his friend Cain and love interest Est, and the base effect being the cooldown reduction is always good.
• I believe Gordin would receive the same treatment as Klein, which is a Brave Bow with 8 Mt and -2 Spd. He is the 2nd infantry archer to have the higer Def at 32 Def, only behind NY COrrin, with 34, so his skill would be great for him. Against a for with less Def, he would be able to trigger 2 CD skills, like Moonbow and Glimmer, in every single combat.
• Draug would enjoy the Stats+3, and the Wo Dao weapon would help him because his Atk isn't that great, at 30 base.
• Barrier is a interesting choice for Wrys's weapon. I was thinking, for this especific staff, the effect of "when unit uses a healing assist on ally, grants Def/Res+4", but your idea of power creep version of Ovoid Staff is pretty cool too. Warding Stance 4 as refinement is interesting.

6 hours ago, colossus86 said:

If I pulled an Elise today, I would be pissed and that's not something I can say about anyone else that shares her class and availability 

I got Elise when I was trying to get Helloween Mia... I was not happy that day... She is only Gravity fodder, since now we have better cavalry healer. The only vantage she has over her concorrents is that she can use ploys.

I would say the "weaker" cavalry healers, like Clarine, Priscilla and Nanna, deserves a weapon refinement way more than Elise. I decided to invest on Nanna, so I would enjoy a exclusive weapon on her.

[Fabulously Olivier]

Elise is one of the lower priority characters for a refine. She still has an advantage over multiple cavalry healers and all infantry healers. 

 

That isn't to say that she shouldn't get one. I think everyone should have a prf weapon.

[Diovani Bressan]

I just hope for a staff user refinement since none of them got one.